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post #13321 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bambam View Post
Looks great! And now the follow-up question - how does everything sound?!?!

Have not yet out it through it’s paces - by the time i got to play around downstairs, pretty much just enough time to get it unpacked and the box stored away. Was up until 6am or so the night before so called it early...

@SteveH i’ll have to look when i get home but my recall was it was the large feet. my 2 second appraisal was they were fixed to the base itself though...

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post #13322 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 10:45 AM
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madhuski, now you need a larger flat panel to match the sound of your nice system!

Never ends does it?

 

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post #13323 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 11:46 AM
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Flat panel looks large; what size?

Best of luck enjoying those sweet Revel speakers

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 500NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #13324 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 11:47 AM
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...and my Voice 2 has been ordered to match the Salon 2.

This is gonna be great!
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post #13325 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
...and my Voice 2 has been ordered to match the Salon 2.

This is gonna be great!
Why yes, it is.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #13326 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Flat panel looks large; what size?

Best of luck enjoying those sweet Revel speakers


it’s 75 inches

@Milt99 unfortunately this is the biggest I can fit between the two windows. In a way kind of nice to have a firm endpoint!
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post #13327 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Have not yet out it through it’s paces - by the time i got to play around downstairs, pretty much just enough time to get it unpacked and the box stored away. Was up until 6am or so the night before so called it early...

@SteveH i’ll have to look when i get home but my recall was it was the large feet. my 2 second appraisal was they were fixed to the base itself though...
What’d you end up with for amplification?

I was going by D-Sonic to hear his on Studio2’s that he has for demo but he was hustling into H-Town to see how they do on some big flat panel speakers. ;-)
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post #13328 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 04:59 PM
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Here is a review of the M126Be’s up on Secrets in case anyone is looking for one.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/
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post #13329 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
it’s 75 inches

@Milt99 unfortunately this is the biggest I can fit between the two windows. In a way kind of nice to have a form endpoint!
I noticed that you'd bought one as big as would fit between the windows. Good man.
Maybe a projector and retractable screen?
j\k

BTW, your room looks comfy, cozy & great sounding.

I would love to have a 77" LG OLED in my LR but 65" is as much as I can afford with the remaining reno costs and remaining sound system upgrades.

I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but what subs are you running?
Almost positive I'm going with a pair of Rythmik 15" & DIY the cabinets.

 

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post #13330 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
What’d you end up with for amplification?

I was going by D-Sonic to hear his on Studio2’s that he has for demo but he was hustling into H-Town to see how they do on some big flat panel speakers. ;-)
Right now i’ve got a D-sonic M3a-1200-3 for the front 3 and a Nad m27 for the surrounds.

But, i’m thinking of doing an ATI signature. Not because I think i’ll notice a sound differrence, but more to just remove that “what if” that keeps me up at night.

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post #13331 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I noticed that you'd bought one as big as would fit between the windows. Good man.
Maybe a projector and retractable screen?
j\k

BTW, your room looks comfy, cozy & great sounding.

I would love to have a 77" LG OLED in my LR but 65" is as much as I can afford with the remaining reno costs and remaining sound system upgrades.

I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but what subs are you running?
Almost positive I'm going with a pair of Rythmik 15" & DIY the cabinets.



Right now I have a pair of HSU VTF3-mk5. Previously I had a pair of Seaton Submersives, but felt it was a bit overkill ($$$ wise) for my family's bass habits

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post #13332 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
But, i’m thinking of doing an ATI signature. Not because I think i’ll notice a sound differrence, but more to just remove that “what if” that keeps me up at night.
Those who 'hear' a difference in amps are in the minority. The majority says you won't, as has been said in this thread many times. But I know you know all of that. The "what if" would be better spent on speakers or other electronic toys. Or, you could donate the 3K to me so I can buy 4 Revel C763Ls for my ceiling. But I do know the feeling you're going through. I've had to refocus and look at ceiling speakers rather than an amp that is not going to change a thing except lighten my bank account. YMMV.
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post #13333 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 06:56 PM
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Given your predilection for quality components, the ATI signature amp seems like a perfectly logical choice.
If I was in different career state. rather that the Emotiva XPA-1 Gen2s I just bought if I was going for my dream amp,
it would either be the ATI 6002 Signature or a pair of Passlabs XA100.8 amps but then I'd have to upgrade to Ultima3s.

Hmm, never heard of anyone selling Seaton Sound subs. I wish I would've paid attention.
Fine subs but everyone knows their situation.
You live in The Cities?

 

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post #13334 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 08:17 PM
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I agree with the science behind the design of revel speakers. just wondering what revel owners that use rew, and the results settled on. simple questions like how loud (dynamic range) your speakers can play and what type of curve you adjust to was an attempt by me to learn more. I have no problems sharing what I do...my subs and speakers have been tweaked a couple years now. 1st graph is just front 2 speakers trying to see what compression and range they could play(-30 avr thru -5avr) and 2nd graph was one of my earlier attempts to get my subs and towers to play together...


I was hoping I could compare some of my results with users here to see if we could learn from each other.


obviously my forum communication skills are lacking.


my goal is to upgrade next year my fronts...revel has intrigued me.


peace.
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #13335 of 15246 Old 08-15-2018, 08:35 PM
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I use REW but don't have curves handy. I also have a "professional" measuring package and instrumentation mic I rarely use anymore; too much hassle, and for $100 REW and my calibrated UMIK-1 give the same results as my fancy $1k mic and $3k SW package.

In-room response is -3 dB around 7 Hz using my subs; do not recall the response of just the speakers but not sure I have ever measured them without the crossover (60 Hz L/R, 70 or 80 Hz for everything else).

My target curve is roughly +5 or +6 dB at 20 Hz and -5 or -6 dB at 20 kHz. It is almost a linear slope but is shelved (flat) through most of the midrange and a bit above (say 300 Hz to 5-7 kHz is almost flat).

No idea max SPL; I am not a real loud listener these days, and pushing my speakers and everything else to their limits I just haven't felt like doing. I suspect very few do compression (maximum loudness) sweeps; it is hard on the speakers and the ears (I use ear plugs when I do it). My previous goal (achieved) was ~105 dB at <10% THD and ~115 dB peaks for the front pair; I am very confident my current system will exceed that in my room. That is below the Dolby max spec (which is per-speaker) but plenty loud enough for me. My average levels are probably more like 70 dB with 90 dB peaks and I frequently listen below that. My master volume is typically in the -33 dB range relative to reference for movies, up to -20 dB or so for music, so say 70 to 80 dB. I have enough tinnitus from my youth that I do not want to make it worse.

Note the curve we use and loudness we like is usually preference. The science is what Revel designers have done and continue to do to create the speakers.

HTH - Don
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post #13336 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 12:20 AM
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Here's my M105s with subs at mlp (10ft)



No EQ above 300hz. If you compare the 'early reflections' curve from the M105 spinorama, you'll see that my measured response closely resembles that curve. That's good engineering.

There may be a bit too much measured 'drop-off' in the high treble as my microphone was not pointed straight forward but rather more vertical. I do not have compression numbers on them. Since they are highpassed however, I find them to play plenty loud for my tastes.
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post #13337 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
I agree with the science behind the design of revel speakers. just wondering what revel owners that use rew, and the results settled on. simple questions like how loud (dynamic range) your speakers can play and what type of curve you adjust to was an attempt by me to learn more. I have no problems sharing what I do...my subs and speakers have been tweaked a couple years now. 1st graph is just front 2 speakers trying to see what compression and range they could play(-30 avr thru -5avr) and 2nd graph was one of my earlier attempts to get my subs and towers to play together...


I was hoping I could compare some of my results with users here to see if we could learn from each other.


obviously my forum communication skills are lacking.


my goal is to upgrade next year my fronts...revel has intrigued me.
I have never been able to find the free time to learn and use something like REW.


But one of the things that led me to my Revel speakers was a situation where my Focal 1038Be tweeters were breaking up playing a track at a relatively (but not insanely) high volume. Due to a custom finishing job screwup by Focal, I was able to replicate the issue on 2 pairs of speakers in the same system (same room, same electronics, same source material). @RichB and I tried the exact same track on his system which had the original Revel Salons and they could play that track insanely loudly without any issues. I also feel in love with the sound coming out of those first generation Salons. When my Salon 2's arrived, I ran the same test again (same room, electronics, source material, etc.) and was able to play the track as loudly as I wanted with no hint of an issue. IMHO, the Salon 2's are all around better speakers than the 1038Be's. The electronics I was using at that time were an Oppo BDP-105D, Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro, and a pair of Parasound JC-1 amps.



The specific track mentioned above is Paper Airplane by Alison Krauss on the Paper Airplane album.


I haven't heard any of the other Revel lines, but if what everyone is saying is true, then even the entry level models should be a nice upgrade from your current Focal speakers. I really encourage you to find a dealer or local enthusiast who owns Revel speakers and listen to some before you make any purchasing decisions, but I have a hunch you would be thrilled with pretty much anything from Revel.
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post #13338 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post
Those who 'hear' a difference in amps are in the minority. The majority says you won't, as has been said in this thread many times. But I know you know all of that. The "what if" would be better spent on speakers or other electronic toys. Or, you could donate the 3K to me so I can buy 4 Revel C763Ls for my ceiling. But I do know the feeling you're going through. I've had to refocus and look at ceiling speakers rather than an amp that is not going to change a thing except lighten my bank account. YMMV.
Based off of my experience, I'd put it this way. In order of importance with similar speakers frequency range, I'd rack and stack the following:

1.) Most important (by a long shot) is your room and speaker placement. I've heard a lot of overly treated rooms with perfect ratios sound less than ideal. Also, some rooms should not sound good (based off of their odd dimensions) yet they still do. Measurements aside, if you hear yourself talk and it sounds off by a lot as compared to listening to yourself talk in your yard, that's a less than ideal situation. If it sounds vastly different, punt on expensive amps, preamps, conditioners, and speakers. Because often, they will all sound the same in your room.

2.) Speakers come in 2nd place. Sure, if the speakers are terrible, I guess they will be more important than the room. But I'm assuming competently designed speakers. Also, a speaker that goes deeper in frequency (and assuming the room acoustics are decent) that speaker overall will be prefered (overall). i.e. an F206's with "inferior measurements and materials" will sound better than a "superior" Ultima Gem2 (this assumes no subs). So after all of the trade-offs, a well executed bottom-end will normally be subjectively more impressive/important. For example and in stereo (no subs), I strongly prefer the Salon2's over the Studio2's for one reason: fuller range.

3.) Preamps come in 3rd. Especially prepros which have numerous "amps" or operational amps in line with one another. Also, controlling noise with built in DAC's also helps the over all sound quality by controlling jitter. Room correction for full range and time alignment w/ subs are also a SQ variable. Since room EQ can aid with standing waves, with some rooms, the prepro (because of Eqing) could be more important than even a full range speaker without EQ'ing. I'd say prepros make 3x(?) more of a difference than their amp counter part. I will also say that in 2018, there are a lot of very good prepros out on the market and the differences between them all are shrinking. i.e., show me a bad one??

4. Amps. Again, if we have an under engineered amp that cannot control the load or they easily clip with a less efficient speaker (why on earth people use tube amps in 2018 is beyond me). Therefore, I suppose we can find a less than ideal amp that is more important importance that a preamp. But if we are talking about a competently designed amp, it's in 4th place of importance. Assuming you have a decent room, speakers, and preamp, I have factually passed in the blind with level matched comparisons using a QSC ABX box that I own. This assumes "big" signature differences and trained listeners. So if you see non-trained listeners not able to hear speaker differences in the blind, I propose it is much tougher for amp differences. While I am pontificating, I propose many people who claim to hear difference with speakers (similar FR), amps, and preamps cannot pass in the blind. One key reason is they have not been trained to pass in the blind. It's tough. Really.

5. Power conditioning items. Often, I cannot hear any differences. But we can certainly measure differences. Furman, Torus and others make boxes that have beefed up power supplies. Sometimes they can help with louder volumes because it adds to the power reservoir. For instance, I've heard the benefits with such products with under engineered integrates being bolted to a more difficult speaker load.

With this all said ^^, my next door neighbor isn't willing to spend $50 even when they hear the difference between a Marantz AV7704 ($2200 list) as compared to a Trinnov (10x more). Yet I have customers who will spend $20K more. Meaning, any SQ difference are worth it to them. I've had people over comparing amps with my ABX and failed in the blind (in a couple of situation I am thinking about, I passed by the way). Truth and advertising: I stacked the deck and bolted on a tougher speaker load to make sure there was a difference. I could have also pick a speaker that I would have failed with using the same amps. This is a key reason why so many people disagree on the virtues of perceived differences (yes, often the differences are in between our ears). Yet,they still spent the extra $5K even though we were talking about a very small difference. Being brutally honest never costs me sales. As I like to joke, I have testosterone on my side.
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post #13339 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 08:47 AM
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@SteveH

What’s definition of pass/fail?
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post #13340 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
@SteveH

What’s definition of pass/fail?
n=20. I defined it as 90% confidence. I never got 20 out of 20 right (19 out of 20 is stellar). I've never been able to explain is how one day I can pass, and another day with the same equipment I can fail. A 20 minute cat nap for me often strengthens any subjective differences (if there are any). Therefore, assuming I could pass, some days I pass more easily that others (mood dependent). Whenever I fail, I know I guessing.

But when I am in the grove and I hear a difference, I can rip though 20 events inside of a minute. Along the way, I need to settle myself down. For me at least, the less I concentrate and relax, the easier it is to hear differences. What I cannot wrap my head around is when I pass in the blind, the same perceived differences explode when it is sighted. I'm at a loss to explain how that is possible other than the increase sighted difference has to be between my ears.

On a day when I was at Harman's facility (training) checking out their incredible speaker testing system, I could feel the stress of wanting to be repeatable. I felt I was being tested for competency and I was over focusing. But I was repeatable. It wasn't easy. If anybody ever gets a chance to experience an ABX test for amps, speakers, preamps, etc. It will change how you think about the topic. Reading words about this is one thing. Experiencing the test is another.

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post #13341 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
No idea max SPL; I am not a real loud listener these days, and pushing my speakers and everything else to their limits I just haven't felt like doing. I suspect very few do compression (maximum loudness) sweeps; it is hard on the speakers and the ears (I use ear plugs when I do it).
I volunteered to do some compression sweeps when my Salon 2s arrive and I get them set up. I will also be wearing ear protection and I will almost certainly never use the maximum capability of the speakers. Revel documents the Salon 2 as 86.5 db SPL sensitive and SoundStage measured theirs as 84.2 db SPL. These are not efficient speakers. If high SPL is your goal, look elsewhere. Its' not that the Salon 2 won't get loud; but, any speaker with a sensitivity around 85 isn't aiming for top output.

Everything in speaker design is a tradeoff. People who buy Revel speakers are more interested in their neutrality and incredible off-axis response than the absolute top volume they can reach. I also don't think people realize how much louder 105 dB is compared to 95dB.
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post #13342 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
He keeps asking for "science" despite never offering any of his own and clearly ignoring the plethora of science that IS presented in this thread on an ongoing basis. If he's going to complain about a lack of science in this thread, then he must be completely disappointed with just about any other thread here on AVS other than the JBL Synthesis thread and a small handful of others. He continually takes pot shots (some blatant, some veiled) at Revel and some of the posters here (such as Kal) where they just aren't warranted. I've been getting tired of it and had 2 unusually long work days in a row, so he also caught me on a bad day.

The Focal threads (and most of the other speaker threads on AVS, for that matter) most definitely don't have anything to offer to satisfy his need for science. And that's not to say or imply that Focal speakers are junk - I still own a pair of 1038Be's that I use in my home office system and a pair of 1007's that I use in my bedroom that are both excellent speakers IMHO. If I thought they were junk, I wouldn't own them. However, if I were to replace them, I would most likely go with something from Revel at this point as I've been thrilled with my 6 x Salon 2's and Voice 2 in my main system.
Salon 2's.....x6!!!!!!!???? Be still my pump (heart)!!!!! That's some type of system you've got there!!!!!!
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post #13343 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post
Those who 'hear' a difference in amps are in the minority. The majority says you won't, as has been said in this thread many times. But I know you know all of that. The "what if" would be better spent on speakers or other electronic toys. Or, you could donate the 3K to me so I can buy 4 Revel C763Ls for my ceiling. But I do know the feeling you're going through. I've had to refocus and look at ceiling speakers rather than an amp that is not going to change a thing except lighten my bank account. YMMV.


Well, I just extinguished my speaker and electronics "what if" - upgraded to the Revels, tried out a bunch of prepro's. I go back on forth on the amp - like I said, I know that my test subject (the wife) would notice no difference if I swap them in/out, so the main reason I would do it is to remove that doubt

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post #13344 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
If high SPL is your goal, look elsewhere. Its' not that the Salon 2 won't get loud; but, any speaker with a sensitivity around 85 isn't aiming for top output. I also don't think people realize how much louder 105 dB is compared to 95dB.
I respectfully disagree and would not advise anyone to look elsewhere to find speakers that can play "louder". We have seen compression sweeps and know Salon2's are capable of high SPL with the appropriate power amp(s) driving them. Yes, there is some power compression, but can your ears handle the level at which that occurs? Use high power monoblock or stereo amps. Amps with high power are plentiful and can be found for far less than years past (or far more if you can and want to afford them). If you don't have concerns about fan noise, you can get far more power than Salon2's can handle. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of amps without fans that have enough power to drive Salon2's beyond the threshold of pain for most users. Some prominent mastering engineers have chosen Salon2's. They have to be able to play at high SPL's to check their work and impress clients. You just need enough watts.

A ten dB increase in SPL is perceived as twice as loud! 95 dB SPL (average ) is where I run concert PA levels when I mix FOH in pretty good sized venues (way bigger than any home listening room) with big PA systems. Most people (including myself) find it comfortable, powerful and with good impact. Once I push the levels up from there, I get dirty looks from people, see them covering their ears and actually walking out of the venue.

In my home sitting at the apex of a 12 foot equilateral triangle, anything over 95-96 dB SPL is too much for me. Of course, people have different thresholds of pain and I'm not saying 96 dB SPL is painful, but a few dB more and I am not comfortable for very long.
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post #13345 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 05:36 PM
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I have always been under the impression that its high distortion that causes pain in listening levels. I kinda learned this with my old passion for car stereo competitions where I had the chance to listen to hundreds of different setups and brands. with my current setup I cant listen for very long at -10mv or higher on most recordings...but some recordings I cant play loud enough. steely dan is one group I can listen at very loud levels with zero pain. one easy test I have used was trying to have a normal level conversation while listening to loud music. if the music was too distorted the conversation couldnt be heard without shouting, but low distortion and was lot easier to talk and communicate without raising voice.


I have found a few brands that I really like the sound, but they all are priced around 20k+...and at those prices gonna have to think long and hard in terms of value over what I already have.

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post #13346 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
I volunteered to do some compression sweeps when my Salon 2s arrive and I get them set up. I will also be wearing ear protection and I will almost certainly never use the maximum capability of the speakers. Revel documents the Salon 2 as 86.5 db SPL sensitive and SoundStage measured theirs as 84.2 db SPL. These are not efficient speakers. If high SPL is your goal, look elsewhere. Its' not that the Salon 2 won't get loud; but, any speaker with a sensitivity around 85 isn't aiming for top output.

Everything in speaker design is a tradeoff. People who buy Revel speakers are more interested in their neutrality and incredible off-axis response than the absolute top volume they can reach. I also don't think people realize how much louder 105 dB is compared to 95dB.
The movie playback reference level is from a cinema standard that was written in the days of optical sound tracks. Nothing close to 105 dB was achievable, and those high levels that were achieved had massive distortion and the accompaniment of significant background noise. Digital sound tracks changed all of that. Now 105 dB can, in theory, be achieved although cinemas are not tested to be able to make it - if they were, many would fail.

If you are going to test for power compression, I would encourage you to make it realistic, which pure tone sweeps are not - certainly if the pure-tone SPL is used as the reference. They are used because they are easy to do, not because they are the best method. Ideally one wants to exercise the complete loudspeaker system with real program material or a simulation of it - commonly a hump-backed spectrum of broadband noise. The motors and voice coils must reach a steady state temperature based on the portion of the program spectrum they reproduce. Short duration peaks may not have time to heat the voice coils - the time constant is quite long. Once the speaker is at operating temperature, at the broadband sound level of choice (Not the sound level of a pure tone) then quickly run a normal sound level sweep or MLS measurement before the voice coil cools. This is tricky, but this is 2018 and the technology exists. The NRCC tests I did (published in Soundstage.com) are not realistic. I apologize, but I made that decision almost 35 years ago based on the equipment I had available. I would do it differently today.

As shown in Part 3 of the series of articles in the companion website to my book: www.routledge.com/cw/toole (open access) my own system (Salon2s, Voice2, Gem2s at the time) did this: "Power amplifiers rated at 800 watts into 4 ohms (continuous) were installed in the example system. With the volume control set to “0”, this system regularly registers C-weighted fast-response sound levels of 106 dB, and peak/impulse levels of 113 dB with routine action movies in a 7.1 configuration." I cannot speak for you, but this is very, very loud - not advised for hearing conservation. A barely noticeable 3 dB drop in volume halves the power demands.

I don't know what your personal goals are, but when I dip into other forums where cinema speakers are used in small domestic rooms I cannot help but think that some people have what is best described as a "deaf" wish.. This cannot have anything to do with entertainment, it is a SPL contest. Count me out! I live with constant tinnitus and I tried to protect my hearing.

Keep us informed.
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post #13347 of 15246 Old 08-16-2018, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I have always been under the impression that its high distortion that causes pain in listening levels. <elided>
Look at equal loudness curves, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour and notice the dip at 3 kHz. That means we are most sensitive at that frequency, i.e. that it takes the least amount of volume to hear. Same frequency as the peak of a baby's cry. That is also where midrange distortion products are likely to pop up, so in that sense distortion can contribute to your pain. However, SPL is SPL, and distorted or not, sounds that are too loud will damage your hearing and can cause pain.

It's been mentioned several times before, but I'll repeat that if you read the actual OSHA guidelines, they are NOT concerned about your ability to be a discerning music listener. They are designed to ensure most folk can still hear a conversation after running a jackhammer (or whatever). The spec deals with the intelligibility of conversations, not being able to still hear nuances in full-range (in dynamics and frequency) music. Listening at OSHA levels can lead to significant hearing loss. The only thing you'll hear clearly is your wife or significant other shouting to turn it down.

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post #13348 of 15246 Old 08-17-2018, 06:38 AM
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[QUOTE=madhuski;56652014]Well, I just extinguished my speaker and electronics "what if" - upgraded to the Revels, tried out a bunch of prepro's. I go back on forth on the amp - like I said, I know that my test subject (the wife) would notice no difference if I swap them in/out, so the main reason I would do it is to remove that doubt/QUOTE]

Sounds like what you're saying is, "I've gots to know"

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post #13349 of 15246 Old 08-17-2018, 06:41 AM
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Advice requested re ceiling speakers

I'm looking ahead here -- my audio funds get reset per agreement with my wife at the end of the year, and I'm thinking January will be the time to add height speakers to my system as well as to upgrade some of the ear-level speakers.

My current system has M106s for LCR, M16s for right and left surrounds, and GR audio AV-3s (which were my main left and right for years) as left and right rears. My main sub is an Adire Tempest in a sealed box, helped out by an RSL Speedwoofer 10S. I drive it all with an Anthem 720 and an Emotive UPA-5.

My ears are seventy years old, so I'm working manfully at ignoring the siren call of beryllium, figuring much of the benefit of upgrading the M106s would go unheard by me. Besides, I continue to be thrilled by how the three M106s perform both for classical music (especially opera) in multichannel recordings and for movies. The two subs and Anthem bass management also leave me very happy, with symphonies and the like reproduced with the right level of smoothly transitioned bass.

So I think my next steps in January include buying two more M106s for use as my right and left surrounds and moving the M16s I currently own to the rear channels.

And I want to make the move to 7.2.4. I'd like advice on how to do this.

My room is a large family room with symmetric sloped ceilings to either side of a big beam. Each part of the ceiling rises from eight feet at the sides to eleven feet at the beam, making for about a fifteen degree slope. There's nothing but roof above this room, so no helpful attic space. (I'll probably run speaker wires along the surface in some sort of raceway rather than trying to fish them under the drywall.)

I could use Revel C783s (or C763L?) but it also seems like the rise of the ceiling opens up the possibility of using S16s flat to the ceilings or even M16s on pivoting ceiling mounts. The latter two options would probably require sinking screws into the cabinets (ouch!) but likely would be easier to move around the ceiling at need (or even remove when we eventually sell the house). Might they sound better?

I'm sure there are other possibilities, and probably some good practical knowledge about how to pull this off. Reactions and advice would be greatly appreciated!
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post #13350 of 15246 Old 08-17-2018, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
I don't know what your personal goals are, but when I dip into other forums where cinema speakers are used in small domestic rooms I cannot help but think that some people have what is best described as a "deaf" wish.. This cannot have anything to do with entertainment, it is a SPL contest. Count me out! I live with constant tinnitus and I tried to protect my hearing.
Big +1. The "louder is better" myth is relentless. That's surprising considering how we over-analyze minutiae about gear but fail a basic understanding of listening levels that can cause permanent hearing loss.
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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