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post #14221 of 15265 Old 11-25-2018, 06:03 PM
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Hello all, long time lurker. I just upgraded my 5.1 to a 7.1 system by adding two more S206. I have had my 5.1 Revel setup since September 2016. Thanks to Steve H I trusted his recommendations in my setup. I was not able to demo the equipment as there are no dealers near me and my research was based on online information. Steve H steered me to the F206’s as I had wanted the F208’s. He said based on the sub we agreed on and my room size (16’x18’ with 9’ edge ceilings and 10’ Tray) that would be the best setup. I am running F206 fronts, C208 center with S206 rears and surrounds with a SVS SB13Ultra sub. I have an ATI AT4007 signature amp powering the setup with a Marantz AV8802A pre/pro. I also use the Audyssey Pro kit for equilization. I just installed the last 2 S206 in the the changeover to 7.1 and ran the equalization after I upgraded my TV to the LG OLED77C8PUA. I am amazed at the difference in soundstage after adding the last 2 speakers.

I am in the process of upgrading the Master Br setup and originally thought of upgrading the F206 to either the F208 or even the F228Be and move the 206’s to the bedroom but in the realm of diminishing returns (old fart ears with tinnitus) and $$$ I decided against that. I am going with Concerta2 F36 and C25 and possibly the C763L surrounds if I can convince my wife Of 40 years that cutting holes in the ceiling is a good idea. I got an Emotiva XPA5 G3 to power the speakers through my Sony STR-DA5300ES AVR. I will eventually move the Marantz 8802A into the MBr when I upgrade the main system. All in all I can’t say enough about the great information shared here and the connections with great online dealers. Steve H has always treated me right and been extremely honest about equipment combinations even though he could probably make more otherwise.

Before the 2016 upgrade I was running DefTech BP30 fronts, CLR2002 center and BPVX surrounds with a power field sub driven by the aforementioned Sony AVR and the Revel/ATI/SVS/Marantz setup definitely blows that away. I made the mistake of giving my DefTech BP30’s to my nephew for helping me with the 2016 upgrade, lol. Those would have been perfect for the bedroom.

Main: LG OLED77C8PUA TV, Marantz 8802A pre/pro, ATI AT4007 AMP, Revel Performa3 C208 F206 S206 x 4, SVS SB13Ultra sub in 7.1, Dish Hopper 3 4K sat, Panasonic DP-UB9000, Roku 4K, AppleTV 4K, CSpire 1Gb fiber internet, Cyberpower PR2200L UPS. Master Br: LG OLED55C8PUA TV, Sony STR-DA5300ES AVR pre/pro, Emotiva XPA5 G3, Revel Concerta2 F35, C25, C763L surrounds, SVS SB2000 sub in 5.1, Dish 4K Joey, AppleTV 4K, Roku 4K, Panasonic DP-UB820.

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post #14222 of 15265 Old 11-26-2018, 07:15 AM
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Glad you are liking the system(s)!

My sons have most of my old gear now. Probably bite me when something breaks and I'm left without a backup but at least I cleared a bunch of storage space. Which my wife promptly filled and then some...

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post #14223 of 15265 Old 12-03-2018, 10:57 PM
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December, new month.

Anyone getting some new Revel’s for Christmas or anything?
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post #14224 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 04:37 AM
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I was running some sweeps with Dirac Live and somehow it decided to make the sweep at maximum volume. Before I could get it stopped it took it out my left tweeter. Anyone ever had to replace one on a Salon 2? Harman wants $960. Ouch.

Theater - Marantz AV7702mkii, JVC RS500, Stewart 123" ST130, Oppo 203, 7.4.4>1099(s), Volt 10LX(s), Ultimax18(s)
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post #14225 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
December, new month.

Anyone getting some new Revel’s for Christmas or anything?
Oddly enough, yep.

The audio quality in my exercise room has been driving me nuts, and that led to a decision to update the whole shebang to a 3.0 setup, keeping the doors open for 3.1 and 5.x as well. A pair of M106s and a C205 are sitting here in cartons awaiting the arrival of an AVR (an Anthem MRX 520).

There's an interesting twist for setting up a system in this space. Given that this really is an exercise room, it's a pretty rare event to sit down, and that means different height requirements for speakers. That led to a search for mounting brackets that fit my needs.... no luck there. My biggest objection to what's available is that most require drilling holes into speakers to attach brackets. That's a non-starter with me.

At this point I've spun up a small carpentry project with me doing the work. Not sure how that will turn out but, to be sure, carpentry is not my forte. My hope is for something utilitarian that can be camouflaged. Maybe it will have some tinsel to keep it seasonal.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14226 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jtolive View Post
I was running some sweeps with Dirac Live and somehow it decided to make the sweep at maximum volume. Before I could get it stopped it took it out my left tweeter. Anyone ever had to replace one on a Salon 2? Harman wants $960. Ouch.
I dented one of mine, so it's on the list of things to do.


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post #14227 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
December, new month.

Anyone getting some new Revel’s for Christmas or anything?
Picking up a pair of F206's this weekend to use as rears with the C208 and F206's at the front.

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post #14228 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mallen4258 View Post
Hello all, long time lurker. I just upgraded my 5.1 to a 7.1 system by adding two more S206. I have had my 5.1 Revel setup since September 2016. Thanks to Steve H I trusted his recommendations in my setup. I was not able to demo the equipment as there are no dealers near me and my research was based on online information. Steve H steered me to the F206’s as I had wanted the F208’s. He said based on the sub we agreed on and my room size (16’x18’ with 9’ edge ceilings and 10’ Tray) that would be the best setup. I am running F206 fronts, C208 center with S206 rears and surrounds with a SVS SB13Ultra sub. I have an ATI AT4007 signature amp powering the setup with a Marantz AV8802A pre/pro. I also use the Audyssey Pro kit for equilization. I just installed the last 2 S206 in the the changeover to 7.1 and ran the equalization after I upgraded my TV to the LG OLED77C8PUA. I am amazed at the difference in soundstage after adding the last 2 speakers.

I am in the process of upgrading the Master Br setup and originally thought of upgrading the F206 to either the F208 or even the F228Be and move the 206’s to the bedroom but in the realm of diminishing returns (old fart ears with tinnitus) and $$$ I decided against that. I am going with Concerta2 F36 and C25 and possibly the C763L surrounds if I can convince my wife Of 40 years that cutting holes in the ceiling is a good idea. I got an Emotiva XPA5 G3 to power the speakers through my Sony STR-DA5300ES AVR. I will eventually move the Marantz 8802A into the MBr when I upgrade the main system. All in all I can’t say enough about the great information shared here and the connections with great online dealers. Steve H has always treated me right and been extremely honest about equipment combinations even though he could probably make more otherwise.

Before the 2016 upgrade I was running DefTech BP30 fronts, CLR2002 center and BPVX surrounds with a power field sub driven by the aforementioned Sony AVR and the Revel/ATI/SVS/Marantz setup definitely blows that away. I made the mistake of giving my DefTech BP30’s to my nephew for helping me with the 2016 upgrade, lol. Those would have been perfect for the bedroom.
I was thinking of adding a pair of S206 at the side. How do they match with the F206?
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post #14229 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 06:20 PM
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I was thinking of adding a pair of S206 at the side. How do they match with the F206?
I love the S206! I have had 2 x S206 speakers for 2 years in a 5.1 setup. I recently added two more S206 (now 4x S206) to bring my system to a 7.1. I am VERY happy in the improvement in the soundstage! Even my wife can tell the improvement, LOL!

I’m in the process of improving the Master Bedroom system, I have just added an Emotiva XPA5 gen3 and an SVS SB2000. I’m about to upgrade my DefTech’s to Concerta2 F36 and C25 with C763L surrounds. Long term I’m doing to upgrade my main system from the Marantz AV8802A and moving it to the Master BR with the AV8805 going in the main. Talk to Steve H, he will treat you right!

Main: LG OLED77C8PUA TV, Marantz 8802A pre/pro, ATI AT4007 AMP, Revel Performa3 C208 F206 S206 x 4, SVS SB13Ultra sub in 7.1, Dish Hopper 3 4K sat, Panasonic DP-UB9000, Roku 4K, AppleTV 4K, CSpire 1Gb fiber internet, Cyberpower PR2200L UPS. Master Br: LG OLED55C8PUA TV, Sony STR-DA5300ES AVR pre/pro, Emotiva XPA5 G3, Revel Concerta2 F35, C25, C763L surrounds, SVS SB2000 sub in 5.1, Dish 4K Joey, AppleTV 4K, Roku 4K, Panasonic DP-UB820.

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post #14230 of 15265 Old 12-04-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jtolive View Post
I was running some sweeps with Dirac Live and somehow it decided to make the sweep at maximum volume. Before I could get it stopped it took it out my left tweeter. Anyone ever had to replace one on a Salon 2? Harman wants $960. Ouch.
That seems like highway robbery considering SB Acoustics OEM Be tweeters are like $300-400...

But not uncommon for big box brands. You often have massive upcharge on parts. Focal is just as bad, and I remember NHT would ask a crazy amount for replacement drivers when it was obvious the OEM they were buying from was selling similar drivers for maybe $30 and they'd ask like $140 for a similar driver.

Make profit selling, make profit servicing.
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post #14231 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jtolive View Post
I was running some sweeps with Dirac Live and somehow it decided to make the sweep at maximum volume. Before I could get it stopped it took it out my left tweeter. Anyone ever had to replace one on a Salon 2? Harman wants $960. Ouch.
That’s a serious Christmas downer 🥴 I would however resist trying to source a used one as Revel can ensure an exact match based upon the serial number of the speaker.

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post #14232 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakeshields View Post
That seems like highway robbery considering SB Acoustics OEM Be tweeters are like $300-400...

But not uncommon for big box brands. You often have massive upcharge on parts. Focal is just as bad, and I remember NHT would ask a crazy amount for replacement drivers when it was obvious the OEM they were buying from was selling similar drivers for maybe $30 and they'd ask like $140 for a similar driver.

Make profit selling, make profit servicing.
This is like complaining about the cost of replacement parts on a Mercedes S63 AMG. Does anyone seriously expect the constituent parts on these $25k speakers to be cheap? And what makes you think the SB tweeters are anything like the Be in the Ultimas?
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post #14233 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakeshields View Post
That seems like highway robbery considering SB Acoustics OEM Be tweeters are like $300-400...

But not uncommon for big box brands. You often have massive upcharge on parts. Focal is just as bad, and I remember NHT would ask a crazy amount for replacement drivers when it was obvious the OEM they were buying from was selling similar drivers for maybe $30 and they'd ask like $140 for a similar driver.

Make profit selling, make profit servicing.

Since speaker manufacturers are not non-profit companies, makes sense!
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post #14234 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 07:44 AM
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Replacement parts are a PITA to deal with and consume a goodly amount of cash just sitting around. Then you have to select, measure, and test to find a match to the speaker itself. I don't know what the fallout is in the selection process. If the numbers above are right, 3x cost seems a bit high, but 2x cost is not at all unusual and includes all the cost of buying, stocking, and selecting the driver.

Unrelated, or only quasi-so: Many years ago there was a huge flap about a $9k wrench General Dynamics charged as part of a radar system. Made all the press, with all the usual comments about government waste, contractor graft, and all that jazz. I was working at a competing company at the time (designing ICs to go into high-performance radars). It exploded in the press then died quickly though you can still find the story, or part of it, in various places. The wrench was part of a replacement parts contract. It was common for the gov't to order replacements for the systems with the primary delivery so they had spare parts on hand, and often would do large parts buys to ensure a lifetime supply. (You wouldn't believe what is in various warehouses.) Thing is, the parts were on a line-item order, wherein the total cost was divided by the number of lines in the order and each line was assigned the same cost. So yeah the $250 wrench (custom Be wrenches are not cheap) was $9k, but so was the $500k radar processor. Oops. Made the accounting easy, but hid individual component costs.
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post #14235 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 01:08 PM
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well you are not the only one who has done mistakes with rew...I thought my center channel was toast once when I tried to do a sweep for my subs at 0mv.....and I have done system sweeps at +10mv which wasnt very smart. think when I researched focal be tweets they were $700 ea used.
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post #14236 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 01:42 PM
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well you are not the only one who has done mistakes with rew...I thought my center channel was toast once when I tried to do a sweep for my subs at 0mv.....and I have done system sweeps at +10mv which wasnt very smart. think when I researched focal be tweets they were $700 ea used.
I don't trust PC's for volume control and always the digital out to a DAC. I find other ways to ruin tweeters


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post #14237 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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I have thought about buying used a few times but that would mean I would never really find out what the speaker could do cause no warranty and would be scared to find out limits. the warranty I have with my new speakers I really have pushed my speakers to limits...now if I found a deal for 20k speakers for under 10k I might not ever push them and just be in bliss at listening at normal/sweet spot levels.

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post #14238 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 03:04 PM
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I have thought about buying used a few times but that would mean I would never really find out what the speaker could do cause no warranty and would be scared to find out limits. the warranty I have with my new speakers I really have pushed my speakers to limits...now if I found a deal for 20k speakers for under 10k I might not ever push them and just be in bliss at listening at normal/sweet spot levels.
I guess it would depend how old the $20k speakers were. I had and still have 1 pair of KEF Reference speakers and they state they don't support the products past 10 years! All their drivers are made in house. When I scored my first pair of salon's v1 I emailed harman support about availability for the speakers in those speakers in 2017 they said they still had a supply of all but the rear tweeter in stock.
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post #14239 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 05:54 PM
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Picking up a pair of F206's this weekend to use as rears with the C208 and F206's at the front.

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I was thinking of adding a pair of S206 at the side. How do they match with the F206?

I know someone else already responded to your questions but I wanted to answer in a more global Revel context;
All current Revel speakers within the same family are going to be a perfect timbre match.
I would bet that mixing the Be series with any Performa3 would be seamless as well.

 

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post #14240 of 15265 Old 12-05-2018, 06:07 PM
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This is like complaining about the cost of replacement parts on a Mercedes S63 AMG. Does anyone seriously expect the constituent parts on these $25k speakers to be cheap? And what makes you think the SB tweeters are anything like the Be in the Ultimas?
They aren't, because they are actually way better than the Be in the Ultimas, which is my point. There's a reason they went with SB Be tweeters with the PerformaBe, the 3rd party measurements aren't even close between the old Be tweeters and the new ones.
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post #14241 of 15265 Old 12-06-2018, 07:50 AM
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They aren't, because they are actually way better than the Be in the Ultimas, which is my point. There's a reason they went with SB Be tweeters with the PerformaBe, the 3rd party measurements aren't even close between the old Be tweeters and the new ones.
Upon what basis have you concluded their superiority? Is it the 3rd party measurements? I’d like to see those.

I happen to own Ultima2’s and PerformaBe’s. My amateur, sighted observation is that the Ultima2’s sound pretty good, even at reference levels.
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post #14242 of 15265 Old 12-06-2018, 01:20 PM
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This is like complaining about the cost of replacement parts on a Mercedes S63 AMG. Does anyone seriously expect the constituent parts on these $25k speakers to be cheap? And what makes you think the SB tweeters are anything like the Be in the Ultimas?
Right. And there is more to a tweeter than the diaphragm material. There is the motor, which determines power handling, compression, sensitivity and distortion. In the case of the Ultima2s, there is also the careful performance appraisal and adjustment at the end of the production line to ensure a close match to the golden prototype. Off the shelf or used parts offer no assurance of an acoustical performance match - hence the price.
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post #14243 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 01:58 PM
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Just a couple thoughts on the Revel 228Be speakers as well as the different series as I am new here and saw a trend of interest over the last several pages.

First is that the Revel 228Be speakers are the real deal if you have not heard them. If they fit your space and you have a system that is a good power match, they are fantastic. Dispersion, voicing, imaging and power handling all there. While I jumped from the F36 Concerta2 to the 228Be speakers, my friends who have leveled up from the 208s to the 228Be speakers are also impressed with the gains between models. They are big, powerful, articulate and invisible if you have your positioning and room tuned.

Already 4 people in our listening group running the 228Be speakers now and a 5th just upgrading from the 126Be to the 228Be speakers now. That speaks volumes.

As far as which ones are the right ones for your system, depends right. A start is proportional spending and room size. I think the F36 Concerta2 speakers are great and fun speakers. They are an amazing value and can go a long way. They also paired really well with the Rogue M180s. However, for a big room (5,000-6,000 cu ft) they can lack power handling at live listening levels. They are also not nearly as articulate or invisible as the 208 or 228Be models. They do not go as low either. If you do go the F36 route, I personally recommend stereo subs. Note I am strictly a 2 channel guy and get my immersion admittedly without doing the surround route. If you are in the $3K and under per component range, the F36s can be a great match. As you move up market on other pieces or dial in components, cabling and room treatments a 208 or 228Be may make more sense.

For reference my system currently is the following:
- Vpi HW-19 Turntable w/Rega RB700 arm and Exact 2 cart (Only component scheduled for upgrade)
- Aesthetix Janus Signature Line Stage / Phono Stage
- Rogue Audio M180 Monoblocks
- Revel 228Be speakers
- 4 x Revel B10 Subwoofers
- Shunyata Hydra 6 on the front end and Amps and PS8 w/Defender for Subs
- Sain Line Systems Pure Reference Silver Ribbon ICs
- Sain Line Systems Pure Reference Silver Wire Bi-Wired Speaker Cables
- Sain Line Systems Pure Current Power Cords

Room is 26' x 21' with a complex ceiling varying from 6' to 14' and an average height of 10'

Speakers are on the long wall and over 3' out. Subs are stacked in pairs outside of speakers on front wall about 2' out.

Listen position is dead center of room.

Primary treatments are 703 2" thick panels on the front wall up to 30" high and a thick wool rug and under mat between speakers and listening position.

Not other treatments needed to manage first reflections due to room size and ceiling complexity.
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post #14244 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 02:10 PM
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Welcome to the Revel forum kingpin! Great first post.


Do you find a bass null issue with your listening position dead center in the room? Room acoustics theory says that's unavoidable.
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post #14245 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Welcome to the Revel forum kingpin! Great first post.


Do you find a bass null issue with your listening position dead center in the room? Room acoustics theory says that's unavoidable.
Thank you. Analog and 2 channel mostly, but just hooked in a Digital front end recently and will be connecting to TV and other digital inputs soon. Admittedly the Revel talk brought me here though.

I do not seem to have a bass null issue in my position. Very strong, tight but well integrated bass. I keep my crossover low on my subs at 55Hz and the gain setting low to make them effortless and therefore better integrated. Not sure why I do not have an issue if in theory I should.

I will look more at the theory of room acoustics as it relates to bass null and let you know if I have a thought on why I do not have an issue, but my guess would be that the complexity of my room may solve some traditional issues. Will feedback if I have a more specific thoughts.
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post #14246 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kingpin75s View Post
Just a couple thoughts on the Revel 228Be speakers as well as the different series as I am new here and saw a trend of interest over the last several pages.

First is that the Revel 228Be speakers are the real deal if you have not heard them. If they fit your space and you have a system that is a good power match, they are fantastic. Dispersion, voicing, imaging and power handling all there. While I jumped from the F36 Concerta2 to the 228Be speakers, my friends who have leveled up from the 208s to the 228Be speakers are also impressed with the gains between models. They are big, powerful, articulate and invisible if you have your positioning and room tuned.

Already 4 people in our listening group running the 228Be speakers now and a 5th just upgrading from the 126Be to the 228Be speakers now. That speaks volumes.

As far as which ones are the right ones for your system, depends right. A start is proportional spending and room size. I think the F36 Concerta2 speakers are great and fun speakers. They are an amazing value and can go a long way. They also paired really well with the Rogue M180s. However, for a big room (5,000-6,000 cu ft) they can lack power handling at live listening levels. They are also not nearly as articulate or invisible as the 208 or 228Be models. They do not go as low either. If you do go the F36 route, I personally recommend stereo subs. Note I am strictly a 2 channel guy and get my immersion admittedly without doing the surround route. If you are in the $3K and under per component range, the F36s can be a great match. As you move up market on other pieces or dial in components, cabling and room treatments a 208 or 228Be may make more sense.

For reference my system currently is the following:
- Vpi HW-19 Turntable w/Rega RB700 arm and Exact 2 cart (Only component scheduled for upgrade)
- Aesthetix Janus Signature Line Stage / Phono Stage
- Rogue Audio M180 Monoblocks
- Revel 228Be speakers
- 4 x Revel B10 Subwoofers
- Shunyata Hydra 6 on the front end and Amps and PS8 w/Defender for Subs
- Sain Line Systems Pure Reference Silver Ribbon ICs
- Sain Line Systems Pure Reference Silver Wire Bi-Wired Speaker Cables
- Sain Line Systems Pure Current Power Cords

Room is 26' x 21' with a complex ceiling varying from 6' to 14' and an average height of 10'

Speakers are on the long wall and over 3' out. Subs are stacked in pairs outside of speakers on front wall about 2' out.

Listen position is dead center of room.

Primary treatments are 703 2" thick panels on the front wall up to 30" high and a thick wool rug and under mat between speakers and listening position.

Not other treatments needed to manage first reflections due to room size and ceiling complexity.
"Listen position is dead center of room."

Avoid 50%, 25% and 75% for either listening position or speaker location. Big incurable null. Try 1/3rd 2/3rd or 1/5th 3/5ths.

"Vpi HW-19 Turntable w/Rega RB700 arm and Exact 2 cart (Only component scheduled for upgrade)"

Prime Signature by any chance?

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post #14247 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"Listen position is dead center of room."

Avoid 50%, 25% and 75% for either listening position or speaker location. Big incurable null. Try 1/3rd 2/3rd or 1/5th 3/5ths.

"Vpi HW-19 Turntable w/Rega RB700 arm and Exact 2 cart (Only component scheduled for upgrade)"

Prime Signature by any chance?

Again, really have rock solid, even enviable bass in the sweet spot, but interested in understanding the concern and reference points better.

When you say avoid 50% are you referring to distance from my listening space to my speaker or my front wall? My listening position is 50% into the room from my front wall but that not the same as the to my speakers which are pulled out at least 3' from the front wall IIRC.

My assumption is that the avoid 50%, 25% and 75% is listening position to speakers in which case I am not at 50%.

Please let me know if I misunderstood your reference.

Very nice table that VPI!

I do have a ProJect Xtension 12 in Olive Wood en route. VPI Classic 1 was original thought, but the Xtension 12 is really nice and the right opportunity.
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post #14248 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kingpin75s View Post
When you say avoid 50% are you referring to distance from my listening space to my speaker or my front wall? My listening position is 50% into the room from my front wall but that not the same as the to my speakers which are pulled out at least 3' from the front wall IIRC.

My assumption is that the avoid 50%, 25% and 75% is listening position to speakers in which case I am not at 50%.

Please let me know if I misunderstood your reference.
In re-reading this, I guess you are referring to 50% from front wall for both the position of speakers or listening.

Not sure why this is absolutely not an issue for me.
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post #14249 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"Listen position is dead center of room."

Avoid 50%, 25% and 75% for either listening position or speaker location. Big incurable null. Try 1/3rd 2/3rd or 1/5th 3/5ths.
Is it possible this theory falls apart when the room is not a box?

I have limited vertical and plumb walls, an incredibly complex ceiling, a spiral staircase well dropping behind the listening position and the only vertical and parallel walls are over 25' apart.

I can have a mirror in my first reflection on the end of the long wall and you cannot hear it because of the distance is one example where this room defies traditional concerns.

Last edited by kingpin75s; 12-09-2018 at 05:46 PM. Reason: misprint
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post #14250 of 15265 Old 12-09-2018, 03:58 PM
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welcome to the forum. Sounds like you're new to avs not revel? i'm on my 3rd pair myself and find they offer good value.

Meridian dsp8000,Usher BE-20 DMD dancer, Vienna acoustics Beethoven's and (Strauss for sale), Hegel H360, Roon Nucleus, Rega jupiter cd, Revox s26 tuner,[path]salon2, salon1, f52, r105/3, ads L9e and the infamous bose 901 vI.
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