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post #14341 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 04:21 PM
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Just got my pair of Revel M126Be and was worried about the build quality of my pair...

These two pictures show my main worries:





Here is a picture of the entire speaker:



They were second hand but the guy never unwrapped the speakers and they were pretty much truly brand new (all the plastic was still on the speaker on every side still and clearly showed that none of it was removed and replaced back on).

As you can tell from the second photo, I didn't even remove the wrapper on the top yet.

The misaligned logo honestly I could live with but would the extra white paint splatter (not sure what it is exactly) mess with the performance of the speakers?

Maybe they are a fake pair? Haha I hope not.

Unfortunately I bought them second hand so not sure what I can do (going to ask the owner for maybe a receipt). Just a bit disappointed.
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post #14342 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 04:43 PM
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Not sure what white splatter you see on the top, to me it looks like bubbles in the plastic.
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post #14343 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
Not sure what white splatter you see on the top, to me it looks like bubbles in the plastic.
I meant the white coating on the acoustic lens of the waveguide. It looks like overspray (not even sure if it is paint) in the second picture?
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post #14344 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 06:12 PM
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You will also find the carefully controlled Double-blind Listening Test results comparing the three speakers here:https://www.dropbox.com/s/quvk...%20...20Res.pdf?dl=0

Is it just me? I can't view it.

I really wish I could have been there for this. Almost was, if I weren't afraid of flying. I actually had the Revel's and Persona's in the same room of my own theater. So I know what they both sound like. They both sound extremely good. And in my room the Persona's sounded the best. I have explained the differences elsewhere. I don't want to muddy this thread. But would like to see the results.

Rex can you hook me up with this? Or someone?

Ron

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post #14345 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
You will also find the carefully controlled Double-blind Listening Test results comparing the three speakers here:https://www.dropbox.com/s/quvk...%20...20Res.pdf?dl=0

Is it just me? I can't view it.

I really wish I could have been there for this. Almost was, if I weren't afraid of flying. I actually had the Revel's and Persona's in the same room of my own theater. So I know what they both sound like. They both sound extremely good. And in my room the Persona's sounded the best. I have explained the differences elsewhere. I don't want to muddy this thread. But would like to see the results.

Rex can you hook me up with this? Or someone?

Ron

I sent it to you via email or go to Kevin's post #4 in the new thread. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html


https://www.dropbox.com/s/quvk1ffpqw...20Res.pdf?dl=0
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post #14346 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 06:34 PM
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Looks like my previous post has a link that works.
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post #14347 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 08:31 PM
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Thanks Rex, only the emailed link works for me. For some reason it says I can't view it when downloaded from here.

Ron

JVC RS4810 projector Stewart Cima 115" 2.35 screen, ATI 523 and 528 amps
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All in a dedicated 15x22x8 foot dedicated home theater.

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post #14348 of 15274 Old 12-30-2018, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post
Just got my pair of Revel M126Be and was worried about the build quality of my pair...

These two pictures show my main worries:

Here is a picture of the entire speaker:

They were second hand but the guy never unwrapped the speakers and they were pretty much truly brand new (all the plastic was still on the speaker on every side still and clearly showed that none of it was removed and replaced back on).

As you can tell from the second photo, I didn't even remove the wrapper on the top yet.

The misaligned logo honestly I could live with but would the extra white paint splatter (not sure what it is exactly) mess with the performance of the speakers?

Maybe they are a fake pair? Haha I hope not.

Unfortunately I bought them second hand so not sure what I can do (going to ask the owner for maybe a receipt). Just a bit disappointed.
That's not abnormal for the PerformaBe speakers I've seen at shows. I've seen some inconsistent paint application on the drivers of Ultima2 series speakers and on face-plate as well.

I think it's just more motivation to keep the grills on--I think they look better that way too since it melds with the top piece on the speakers. They aren't furniture piece grade, you are paying for the audio--that's what brands like Sonus Faber are for. Out of curiosity, where did you find those? I haven't seen a walnut pair on sale online used recently.

Last edited by astrallite; 12-31-2018 at 12:38 AM.
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post #14349 of 15274 Old 12-31-2018, 11:50 AM
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If I took delivery of those 126bes from a dealer they be going straight back.
The f'd up finish on the baffle is unacceptable

 
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post #14350 of 15274 Old 12-31-2018, 02:07 PM
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I think you are seeing the protective plastic covering still on the entire speaker. Until we know the source of the purchase and history of the speaker, we don't know anything about it. They could be B stock (used at a show for a demo). Could have been bought second from a prior owner who caused the damage. Hard to tell from the pictures what is going on other than the obvious chip in the paint on the tweeter protector. As far as I know, no blemished stock (flaws in the finish work) Performa Be series speakers have been sold.
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post #14351 of 15274 Old 12-31-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
That's not abnormal for the PerformaBe speakers I've seen at shows. I've seen some inconsistent paint application on the drivers of Ultima2 series speakers and on face-plate as well.

I think it's just more motivation to keep the grills on--I think they look better that way too since it melds with the top piece on the speakers. They aren't furniture piece grade, you are paying for the audio--that's what brands like Sonus Faber are for. Out of curiosity, where did you find those? I haven't seen a walnut pair on sale online used recently.
I found them on eBay. Funny thing was the photo was underexposed so I thought I bought a Gloss Black pair, queue my surprise when I opened the boxes. They were brand new and still vacuum sealed (those plastic wraps are extremely annoying to take off o.o ), only thing open was the box. Anyways not sure what I'm going to do, just a slight feeling of disappointment. I'll see what my options are...
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post #14352 of 15274 Old 01-01-2019, 05:27 AM
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looks like water damage around the edges of the woofer and I agree that's unacceptable. The top probably is air pockets. I bought a pair of salon 1's a few years ago on ebay that I ended up cancelling because after close inspection of the pics I could see actual scratches on the head unit that initially looked like camera flash. Like my dad always used to tell me "If a deal seems too good to be true it probably is".
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post #14353 of 15274 Old 01-01-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post
...but would the extra white paint splatter (not sure what it is exactly) mess with the performance of the speakers?
This is a picture of my F228BE tweeter. Plenty of imperfections and I haven't noticed any performance problems, so I wouldn't be concerned. Once everything goes under a microscope nothing is perfect.



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post #14354 of 15274 Old 01-01-2019, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post
Just got my pair of Revel M126Be and was worried about the build quality of my pair...


They were second hand but the guy never unwrapped the speakers and they were pretty much truly brand new (all the plastic was still on the speaker on every side still and clearly showed that none of it was removed and replaced back on).

As you can tell from the second photo, I didn't even remove the wrapper on the top yet.

The misaligned logo honestly I could live with but would the extra white paint splatter (not sure what it is exactly) mess with the performance of the speakers?

Maybe they are a fake pair? Haha I hope not.

Unfortunately I bought them second hand so not sure what I can do (going to ask the owner for maybe a receipt). Just a bit disappointed.
How do they sound?

If you like the sound, are going to use the grills, and got a very good price, I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the music.

If you like the sound, but were planning on using them without the grills, you might contact the seller about his/her description and perhaps negotiate a better price or return them, and buy a new pair from one of the authorized dealers on this forum.

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post #14355 of 15274 Old 01-01-2019, 01:47 PM
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How do they sound?

If you like the sound, are going to use the grills, and got a very good price, I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the music.

If you like the sound, but were planning on using them without the grills, you might contact the seller about his/her description and perhaps negotiate a better price or return them, and buy a new pair from one of the authorized dealers on this forum.
In addition to the above comments, I believe the OP mentioned that the listing said they were gloss black and the actual speakers were walnut. That alone is grounds for a return that ebay should back the buyer on.
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post #14356 of 15274 Old 01-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post
Just got my pair of Revel M126Be and was worried about the build quality of my pair...

These two pictures show my main worries:

..........

They were second hand but the guy never unwrapped the speakers and they were pretty much truly brand new (all the plastic was still on the speaker on every side still and clearly showed that none of it was removed and replaced back on).

As you can tell from the second photo, I didn't even remove the wrapper on the top yet.

The misaligned logo honestly I could live with but would the extra white paint splatter (not sure what it is exactly) mess with the performance of the speakers?

Maybe they are a fake pair? Haha I hope not.

Unfortunately I bought them second hand so not sure what I can do (going to ask the owner for maybe a receipt). Just a bit disappointed.
The only thing I see from your photos that is definitely a quality issue is the "A" in Performa. Given the basis for the name "Performa" that is richly ironic. And also bush league if it came from the factory like that.

Hard to tell if the pit in the paint on the tweeter guard (or is it a lens?) is considered a defect without having the production QC specs, but I'd be more concerned if it was caused by something hitting the guard. If so, hopefully it did its job.

It's also hard to tell if there are any defects in the wood finish part because it is so reflective. At first I thought the reddish strip around the woofer from 1 o'clock to 4 o'clock looked like a stain of some sort but it could just be a reflection.

I have to admit I considered buying some Salon2's on audiogon several times but, in retrospect, I'm very glad I got a new warrantied product from an authentic dealer. Peace of mind is worth something.

Hopefully they sound great!
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post #14357 of 15274 Old 01-03-2019, 07:44 PM
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Can anyone tell me the exact dimensions of the box for the f208? I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I want to make sure I can fit a pair in the vehicle before I agree to pick up. Sorry if this has been answered before but I cant find it anywhere.

Thanks - Tom
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post #14358 of 15274 Old 01-03-2019, 11:32 PM
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Can anyone tell me the exact dimensions of the box for the f208? I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I want to make sure I can fit a pair in the vehicle before I agree to pick up. Sorry if this has been answered before but I cant find it anywhere.

Thanks - Tom
The F208's box dimensions are 50" x 18" x 21"
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post #14359 of 15274 Old 01-04-2019, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BigTom214 View Post
Can anyone tell me the exact dimensions of the box for the f208? I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I want to make sure I can fit a pair in the vehicle before I agree to pick up. Sorry if this has been answered before but I cant find it anywhere.

Thanks - Tom
BigTom, They are designed for vertical placement. Probably will not sound good horizontally. Also may be too much bass in the Grand cabin.

Find a way to transport them as I am sure you will enjoy them.
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post #14360 of 15274 Old 01-04-2019, 08:25 PM
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Thanks,guys.

I bit the bullet and finally put a deposit down on a set of new F208s!!! I'll have them in about 3 weeks. I cant even begin to tell you how excited I am. This is my first foray into audio gear of this level (I currently have Axiom Audio M22 bookshelves that are about 10 years old).

I haven't posted here much, but I wanted to thank you all for the 400+ pages of advice and tips that this thread contains.

Tom
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post #14361 of 15274 Old 01-04-2019, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
You will also find the carefully controlled Double-blind Listening Test results comparing the three speakers here:https://www.dropbox.com/s/quvk...%20...20Res.pdf?dl=0

Is it just me? I can't view it.

I really wish I could have been there for this. Almost was, if I weren't afraid of flying. I actually had the Revel's and Persona's in the same room of my own theater. So I know what they both sound like. They both sound extremely good. And in my room the Persona's sounded the best. I have explained the differences elsewhere. I don't want to muddy this thread. But would like to see the results.

Rex can you hook me up with this? Or someone?

Ron
Do you use room correction? Any speaker might sound "best" in a random spot in a unique room. But IMO the speaker with the most even dispersion is the easiest with room correction in the mid-field to sound the most "correct".
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post #14362 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 09:05 AM
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No room correction at this time. I used REW to dial in both speakers. I would have liked to have kept both speakers. They both sounded good but in different ways. To be fair when I first hooked up the Revel's I liked them more. I listened to them for about four days without going back to the Paradigm Persona's. They were definitely a bit smoother . I was going to cancel the shootout that I had planned and just sell the Paradigm Persona's. But at times there was sounds in some familiar songs that I wasn't hearing as clearly. Like background instruments. Also female vocals sometimes I wasn't understanding when it was a whisper or softly sang.

Then after that four days my wife came in finally to hear them. I told her my plans so she started listening. So I turned them on and she listened for about an hour. Then she looked at me and said ok hook the Paradigm Persona's back up. I did and moved them into position. Turned them on and she listened for about 15 minutes. And just smiled. She said that's more like it. And actually at this time I was already rethinking my decision. Because what I was hearing was now slightly different.

She explained it like this and it was exactly what I was hearing. I just couldn't figure out how to explain it. She said they both sound good. But the Revel's make me sleepy. And the Paradigm Persona's make me happy.

So now I called my fellow AVS buddies over to do the shootout. This was NOT a carefully controlled test. They were both seen. You could definitely tell which ones were playing. So take that for what it's worth.

I first had the Revel's in place. And both guys liked them. Good depth of image. Smooth sounding we're the comments. Deep bass also. Then I hooked up the Persona's and one of the guys sat in the sweet spot for a long time. I actually have a video of this. Shaking his foot to the music. I then told the other to come and get in there. THe first guy has Aerial 7T speakers. The second is an unseasoned audiophile in the making. I stopped the music and said I know which ones you guys are going to pick. The one with the Aerial's said ok which ones. I said the Revel's. He said nope. He said apparently I like me some berylium. He said he thought I was cheating and had my center channel on. So he got up to make sure. He said the center image and soundstage we're the best he had ever heard. He said the bass and everything is so fast. So articulate but not edgy sounding in the high frequencies. And he explained it similar to my wife. He said he couldn't quite put his finger on it but he loved the Persona's. The way they made him feel. He started considering selling his Aerial's. We had listened to each for about an hour and a half on that day. The other guy said he liked the deeper bass of the Revel's but liked everything else on the Paradigm. Both agreed that the Paradigm had really fast articulate bass. The one said that they the Persona's didn't go as deep.

Then I had two teenage boys listen to them. And both of them liked the Persona's better also. They both had popped there heads in several times during all the listening and never commented either way. Then I asked them what they thought. And both said sell the Revel's.

So in my room the Persona's we're lightning fast from the bass on up. Which give you a feeling of wanting to get up and dance. Make you smile as my wife put it. She said it's not only the bass but the mid-range was so alive. You can hear everything. And none of it is harsh sounding as some others have said about the Persona's.

So in my room the more accurate speaker didn't win out. I actually thought it would. To be fair though everyone liked the Revel's and without hearing the Persona's would have been very happy with them. And on poorly recorded music the Revel's are easier to listen to. But on well recorded music the Persona's sing.

Again this was in my room. With my gear. I am not trying to take away from the Revel's. I liked them. And at first thought I was keeping them. But after several hours listening I bought the speakers that made me want to tap my feet and get up and dance.

Ron

JVC RS4810 projector Stewart Cima 115" 2.35 screen, ATI 523 and 528 amps
7 mirror imaged 2 way DIY monitors. All matched to within 1db. All parts matched, 1 SVS SB16 ultra subwoofer
Emotiva XMC-1 processor Marantz UD5007 Bluray player
Furman sequencer ran off of a double 50amp breaker,Furman power conditioner
All in a dedicated 15x22x8 foot dedicated home theater.

Last edited by rhale64L7; 01-05-2019 at 09:21 AM.
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post #14363 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

So in my room the more accurate speaker didn't win out. I actually thought it would. To be fair though everyone liked the Revel's and without hearing the Persona's would have been very happy with them. And on poorly recorded music the Revel's are easier to listen to. But on well recorded music the Persona's sing.

Again this was in my room. With my gear. I am not trying to take away from the Revel's. I liked them. And at first thought I was keeping them. But after several hours listening I bought the speakers that made me want to tap my feet and get up and dance.

Ron
Hey Ron, followed your experience and appreciate the info.

Just wondering if your seating was higher or the Persona’s were raised to the same level as the Revel’s, if it would have made a difference.

Chris
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post #14364 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 11:42 AM
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Maybe I missed this in a previous post, but is that the Persona 3F model in Aira Blue? Maybe it's the lighting, but I thought the blue was darker.
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post #14365 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 02:34 PM
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Maybe I missed this in a previous post, but is that the Persona 3F model in Aira Blue? Maybe it's the lighting, but I thought the blue was darker.
Yes Aria Blue. And on the first question I adjusted the front spikes a bit on the Persona's as to have the tweets at ear height. Because yes they are shorter. But much deeper. All in all they are roughly the same volume. I experimented with all this using Rew. Until I got the best response but with the center image good. I towed in the Revel's a bit more. The Paradigm Persona's response shows they need to be not towed in as much. Which is what I did. I tried to be as fair as possible.

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7 mirror imaged 2 way DIY monitors. All matched to within 1db. All parts matched, 1 SVS SB16 ultra subwoofer
Emotiva XMC-1 processor Marantz UD5007 Bluray player
Furman sequencer ran off of a double 50amp breaker,Furman power conditioner
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post #14366 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 04:38 PM
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.... And at first thought I was keeping them. But after several hours listening I bought the speakers that made me want to tap my feet and get up and dance.

Ron
and in the end that is what matters. Flat, bumps, smooth curves or not...
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post #14367 of 15274 Old 01-05-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BigTom214 View Post
Thanks,guys.

I bit the bullet and finally put a deposit down on a set of new F208s!!! I'll have them in about 3 weeks. I cant even begin to tell you how excited I am. This is my first foray into audio gear of this level (I currently have Axiom Audio M22 bookshelves that are about 10 years old).

I haven't posted here much, but I wanted to thank you all for the 400+ pages of advice and tips that this thread contains.

Tom
second... it's easy to get lost in these threads. an hour feels like five minutes
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post #14368 of 15274 Old 01-06-2019, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
N

So in my room the Persona's we're lightning fast from the bass on up. Which give you a feeling of wanting to get up and dance. Make you smile as my wife put it. She said it's not only the bass but the mid-range was so alive. You can hear everything. And none of it is harsh sounding as some others have said about the Persona's.

That's pretty much what the curve says. A bit leaner in the upper bass/lower midrange. Low treble range boosted a bit, followed by a depression in the 3-5kHz region, and eventually a steep rising curve in the upper treble 'detailed and airy'.



Having simulated this curve over my own neutral one, I find this to be a curve that sounds appealing at first, and quite as you and others describe. I do wonder how you'll get on with it over time though. Personally I found it somewhat tiring at higher playback levels, and the neutral curve to be better on average with a wide range of program material. That being said, if you should ever want to experiment, the above screenshot should give you enough information to EQ the Persona to a flat listening window :-)
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post #14369 of 15274 Old 01-06-2019, 05:57 AM
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Well as soon as my RMC1 gets the Dirac update I will be experimenting a lot with eq. I already with speaker placement and room treatments gotten a pretty good looking curve in my room. But tweeking it a bit will be fun. I just don't want to lose that sound that they have already.

I have noticed over time that badly recorded material just sounds bad. But 95% of what I listen to is well recorded. So this doesn't affect me much. Probably the reason I like these so much.

Ron

JVC RS4810 projector Stewart Cima 115" 2.35 screen, ATI 523 and 528 amps
7 mirror imaged 2 way DIY monitors. All matched to within 1db. All parts matched, 1 SVS SB16 ultra subwoofer
Emotiva XMC-1 processor Marantz UD5007 Bluray player
Furman sequencer ran off of a double 50amp breaker,Furman power conditioner
All in a dedicated 15x22x8 foot dedicated home theater.
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post #14370 of 15274 Old 01-06-2019, 12:01 PM
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If both sets of speakers had EQ/room correction applied they might have sounded very similar. Without that, the midrange hump and HF boost would make the Paradigm's sound more "lively" so this all makes sense to me. I tend to find boosted upper mids/treble fatiguing over time but that is much less an issue for me now at 59 (~12 kHz hearing range) than it was at 20 (~22 kHz range). As has been said, at the end of the day, you choose the ones you (and your significant others) like best and enjoy! Those are both great speakers and if you had stayed with Revel all the Paradigm guys would be saying the same things for not choosing "my" speakers. - Don

p.s. But Revel Rules!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

Last edited by DonH50; 01-07-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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