Revel Owners Thread - Page 488 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14611 of 15246 Old 03-02-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
I'm just wondering if any of you guys have ever dealt with Revel Tech Support or Parts Ordering. I was putting a pair of Revel W383's up in my house yesterday and I somehow managed to bend the toggle screws (or they might have already been bent when I bought the speaker I'm not sure). I called first thing in the morning yesterday and left a message. I called three more times yesterday and each time was unable to reach a live person. I called again this morning and left another message. Should I expect that these folks will actually pick up if I'm persistent enough or that maybe they'll return my call or is this just a totally lost cause?
They used to be way better, you could get a live person and get parts, I would say 4-5 years ago. I was able to order a shipping box over the phone that I had lost for some speakers and it was promptly shipped to me.

Now it's basically impossible to reach anybody. You can call and email for weeks and not get a response. It's unfortunate. I still like their speakers but you should go in understanding support is pretty much nonexistent--they don't even respond to my dealer when he's got questions. Multiple dealers I've spoke to feel the same way. I treat it as an expendable purchase at this point with eyes wide open. I don't know if this has something to do with the Samsung acquisition, but you see what happened to Bioware and Westwood after EA...

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post #14612 of 15246 Old 03-02-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rsem27 View Post
there is a slight delay between on screen content and the actual audio.
In your AV processor, reduce the lipsync delay time. If it is already a zero, there are some source products, like Oppo BD players, that allow negative sync adjustment (they delay the video).

In my case, I have a projector with significant latency (when not in game mode), and that means I need 80 ms audio delay to sync up. Check your TV and turn off game mode if it has one. For ultimate accuracy, a test disc with A/V sync signals might help.

It's not affected by the amp or by the speakers. Only DSP-based speakers can add latency.
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post #14613 of 15246 Old 03-02-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
In your AV processor, reduce the lipsync delay time. If it is already a zero, there are some source products, like Oppo BD players, that allow negative sync adjustment (they delay the video).

In my case, I have a projector with significant latency (when not in game mode), and that means I need 80 ms audio delay to sync up. Check your TV and turn off game mode if it has one. For ultimate accuracy, a test disc with A/V sync signals might help.

It's not affected by the amp or by the speakers. Only DSP-based speakers can add latency.
Thanks for your response Roger. I actually am just running 2.0 directly from my PC's line out; I am currently not using a receiver. But thank you for letting me know of the existence of negative sync adjustment. I still don't understand why the Klipsch are faster / less of delay than the M126Be, with the same source / amp.
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post #14614 of 15246 Old 03-02-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rsem27 View Post
.. I still don't understand why the Klipsch are faster / less of delay than the M126Be, with the same source / amp.
Yes, it really doesn't make any sense and I've never heard of someone experiencing the same thing before with ANY speakers, regardless of brand, quality, etc.. Speakers can't cause that delay.

There must be something going one that we haven't considered yet.
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post #14615 of 15246 Old 03-02-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by driedmango View Post
They used to be way better, you could get a live person and get parts, I would say 4-5 years ago. I was able to order a shipping box over the phone that I had lost for some speakers and it was promptly shipped to me.

Now it's basically impossible to reach anybody. You can call and email for weeks and not get a response. It's unfortunate. I still like their speakers but you should go in understanding support is pretty much nonexistent--they don't even respond to my dealer when he's got questions. Multiple dealers I've spoke to feel the same way. I treat it as an expendable purchase at this point with eyes wide open. I don't know if this has something to do with the Samsung acquisition, but you see what happened to Bioware and Westwood after EA...
Wow, completely opposite experience to what I recently experienced. In other words, I had a great experience and found them to be very responsive., though I went through my dealer.
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post #14616 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 02:00 AM
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Wow, completely opposite experience to what I recently experienced. In other words, I had a great experience and found them to be very responsive., though I went through my dealer.
I have called Revel on two separate occasions in the last 18 months and spoke to a live representative within a few hours both times. I have no issues with them, but of course things change and this may not reflect the current reality with Revel today.
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post #14617 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 09:15 AM
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I had an engineer call my home and spend 10-15 minutes talking with me answering questions and even subjecting a speaker driver to numerous tests to verify something a Revel SALESMAN said to me! On 2 other occasions I emailed questions and was answered within a week. Consider that every other company I try to communicate with diverts me to a distributor that never reply's I consider Revel to be among the BEST customer service out there!
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post #14618 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 09:50 AM
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Hi all - looking into some Revels.

Short version: I can get new M16s from an authorized dealer for $400 a pair. I really liked the Elac UB5s but the ultimately made my ears hurt/too fatigued at low volumes and I already have some others in the price range like Jamo C93s (energetic sound, digs down, but sibilant and a but unrefined). Are the M16s that different overall or just trading strengths?

My room is pretty forgiving, they would be powered by a 100W AVR and music listening would be in direct mode while theater use would engage a DIY 15" sub. $400 seems a great price relative to list for these but I don't want to waste my or the dealer's time or money if they won't be much different from, say, the UB5s or the RP600M ($350/pair at the same dealer).

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post #14619 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 10:15 AM
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I am having some problems with my Revel F208 speakers. Not sure if I blew them or what? I am not getting any sound out of the tweeter or mid on them. Only sound out of the woofers. I tried bypassing my amp and hooking them up to the receiver and same thing. Seems weird they both stop working at the same time. I tried hooking up my center channel to the left front speaker wires and the center sounds fine.
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post #14620 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
Hi all - looking into some Revels.

Short version: I can get new M16s from an authorized dealer for $400 a pair. I really liked the Elac UB5s but the ultimately made my ears hurt/too fatigued at low volumes and I already have some others in the price range like Jamo C93s (energetic sound, digs down, but sibilant and a but unrefined). Are the M16s that different overall or just trading strengths?

My room is pretty forgiving, they would be powered by a 100W AVR and music listening would be in direct mode while theater use would engage a DIY 15" sub. $400 seems a great price relative to list for these but I don't want to waste my or the dealer's time or money if they won't be much different from, say, the UB5s or the RP600M ($350/pair at the same dealer).
All Revel speakers have the same goal, neutral sound on and off axis. Hard to compare with others that don't offer measurements, but don't be fooled by thinking speakers with non-linear low or high frequency response sound "better".

Read through some of this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57682664
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post #14621 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtripleone View Post
I am having some problems with my Revel F208 speakers. Not sure if I blew them or what? I am not getting any sound out of the tweeter or mid on them. Only sound out of the woofers. I tried bypassing my amp and hooking them up to the receiver and same thing. Seems weird they both stop working at the same time. I tried hooking up my center channel to the left front speaker wires and the center sounds fine.
Did you check wiring on the back of the speaker? Be sure you are in the correct speaker inputs (the top set) and the shorting straps are secure between the two sets of binding posts. It sounds like you are plugged into the bottom set of binding posts (the low frequency inputs) and the shorting straps are missing.

Or, something extreme happened and blew both the tweeter and midrange drivers in both speakers. Somewhat unlikely. Here is the manual for reference:

https://revelspeakers.com/tl_files/c...0REV.09_12.pdf
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post #14622 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
All Revel speakers have the same goal, neutral sound on and off axis. Hard to compare with others that don't offer measurements, but don't be fooled by thinking speakers with non-linear low or high frequency response sound "better".

Read through some of this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57682664
Thanks for the link - I've been following that thread since it started and find it interesting given my own experiences as an audio hobbyist and studio musician. My ears tend to prefer a clear mids and good presence and I've read about Revel's philosophy, so what it seems to boil down to is if $400 for some M16s really gains me much relative to something like the UB5s, or if I'm just dabbling in a different flavor of mid-fi and would need to step further up to see significant difference and eliminating a design trade-off.

I don't have the room for a significant system front-end (thus the AVR) and use is 50/50 music and video (4K discs and streaming). Should probably just pick them up and see for myself but thought I'd stop in and ask about any advice from owners. The brand seems very well-regarded.
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post #14623 of 15246 Old 03-03-2019, 12:10 PM
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Did you check wiring on the back of the speaker? Be sure you are in the correct speaker inputs (the top set) and the shorting straps are secure between the two sets of binding posts. It sounds like you are plugged into the bottom set of binding posts (the low frequency inputs) and the shorting straps are missing.

Or, something extreme happened and blew both the tweeter and midrange drivers in both speakers. Somewhat unlikely. Here is the manual for reference:

https://revelspeakers.com/tl_files/c...0REV.09_12.pdf


I did have them in the bottom. I moved them to the top, but still no sound out of the tweeters or mids. I must of blew them. I emailed Revel will see what they have to say.
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post #14624 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 12:51 AM
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I did have them in the bottom. I moved them to the top, but still no sound out of the tweeters or mids. I must of blew them. I emailed Revel will see what they have to say.

Seems unlikely both tweeter and mid would go. I think you may have either a bad internal connection or blown some common element of the upper crossover. Either of these should be cheaper to fix than driver replacement.
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post #14625 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 06:39 AM
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Elevation Speakers?

It looks like the Revel product solution for Atmos / DTS : X speakers is in-ceiling only. It would be great if someone from Harman could comment on elevation speakers. Specifically, are there any plans in this direction?

While it makes sense that in-ceiling speakers are the right choice for best sound quality, this won't work for many of us. Without a dedicated room, this turns into a conversation with your spouse about drilling holes in the living room or family room ceiling. In my home, that's a fail out of the gate. Another option, even an imperfect one, would be useful.

It seems curious that Revel isn't in this domain already since they offer products at a lot of different performance and price points. Other manufacturers apparently view elevation speakers as a market opportunity and offer products in this domain.

Is there any hope here? It looks like this is business Harman / Revel doesn't want.

(FWIW I did ask about elevation speakers on the Revel web site a couple of weeks ago. No reply.)

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14626 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 07:49 AM
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While it makes sense that in-ceiling speakers are the right choice for best sound quality, this won't work for many of us. Without a dedicated room, this turns into a conversation with your spouse about drilling holes in the living room or family room ceiling. In my home, that's a fail out of the gate. Another option, even an imperfect one, would be useful.
My wife probably would not object to in-ceiling speakers if the results were visually inconspicuous. However, my apartment construction is of reinforced concrete and an in-ceiling installation would require major excavation for the speakers and for the wiring.
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post #14627 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 08:24 AM
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Revel M8 on wall ?

https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...roduct/m8.html

I bought a “French” brand but haven’t incorporated them yet

@Bill-99

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post #14628 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 09:58 AM
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My wife probably would not object to in-ceiling speakers if the results were visually inconspicuous. However, my apartment construction is of reinforced concrete and an in-ceiling installation would require major excavation for the speakers and for the wiring.
Thanks, Kal. This is another good use case for elevation speakers.

Does anyone know the stats on the percentage of home theaters that have Atmos / DTS : X installed, and perhaps how adoption of the technology is changing each year? I keep wondering if limited elevation speaker offerings is a barrier for wider adoption of Atmos / DTS : X in the home.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14629 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 10:28 AM
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Revel M8 on wall ?

https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...roduct/m8.html

I bought a “French” brand but haven’t incorporated them yet

@Bill-99
Have to think about on-wall as a potential answer. Not sure.

As you point out, other manufacturers have shown interest in Atmos-enabled / elevation speakers. Could be lots of reasons why Revel isn't in this space -- maybe not enough customers, or not enough margin, or not the target audience of Revel products, etc. But it would be useful to have an answer from the manufacturer.

Of course, no answer at all is an answer in itself.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14630 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 03:11 PM
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Have to think about on-wall as a potential answer. Not sure.

As you point out, other manufacturers have shown interest in Atmos-enabled / elevation speakers. Could be lots of reasons why Revel isn't in this space -- maybe not enough customers, or not enough margin, or not the target audience of Revel products, etc. But it would be useful to have an answer from the manufacturer.

Of course, no answer at all is an answer in itself.
A few years ago I participated in a CEDIA panel discussion on elevation loudspeaker options, including a Dolby representative (see attachment). I began by explaining how humans localize sounds at different elevations. It is entirely very high frequency spectral information, and it works most reliably for familiar sounds, so we can notice the directional cues when the sound source is elevated. Our precision of localizing vertically is poor because the ears are in the wrong locations.

There is no doubt that real loudspeakers in the right locations are vastly more convincing than the option of bouncing sounds off the ceiling from upward facing speakers on top of towers or bookshelf units. The artist's renderings of sound "beams" from the upward aimed speakers bouncing off the ceiling are laughable - sound does not propagate that way. Only the most directional high frequency sounds get close, which generates an "effect", but it is much less persuasive than when all of the wide bandwidth sounds originate at elevated locations.

So, one should abandon the real speaker option only if none of the options can be made to work.

The good news is that those speakers may or may not need to be in or on the ceiling. It depends on the geometry of the room. The requirements state that the front and rear elevation speakers should be about 30 or more degrees up from the head location of the prime listener. In my room that permitted quality bookshelf speakers to be suspended from the walls close to the ceiling - they are 35 deg. up and aimed at me so I get the highest quality direct sound.

Being directly overhead is not necessary to generate impressive 3D effects. In the real world few sounds originate from such elevated locations, and some of those in movies end up being localized "up there" even when no speakers were in those locations. Flyovers and hovering helicopters have for decades been successfully portrayed with 5.1 channels. Nothing is ever localized below the floor. The brain knows better and will deliver perceptions that are "plausible". Still, in some movies deliberately steered sound effects come from the elevated speakers and this is where real speakers in those locations are highly advantageous.

Finally, it has to be noted that the four elevated speakers commonly recommended are far fewer than the number available for use by sound mixers in movie production facilities and in upscale Atmos cinemas. We get to hear a "downmixed" sound track, but from my own experience it can still be very impressive.

As for Revel's position with respect to Atmos enabled speakers, I cannot comment. That is a marketing decision, not an engineering one.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CEDIA Vertical Localization (smaller).pdf (811.8 KB, 39 views)
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I'm just wondering if any of you guys have ever dealt with Revel Tech Support or Parts Ordering. I was putting a pair of Revel W383's up in my house yesterday and I somehow managed to bend the toggle screws (or they might have already been bent when I bought the speaker I'm not sure). I called first thing in the morning yesterday and left a message. I called three more times yesterday and each time was unable to reach a live person. I called again this morning and left another message. Should I expect that these folks will actually pick up if I'm persistent enough or that maybe they'll return my call or is this just a totally lost cause?

I poked my head in here for this exact reason (& to ask for assistance here b/c I can't get a response from Revel).
I started calling Revel 3 weeks ago to order a few parts for my Voice2 and stand. After a few transfers to voicemail, I left a voicemail (about 3 weeks ago). I called a few times over the next week to no avail so I opted to send a message via their support page. I still have not heard back. I decided to try one of the other departments and was also transferred to a voicemail (dealer dept, iirc). As to my request, I'll make a separate post.
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post #14632 of 15246 Old 03-04-2019, 09:45 PM
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Voice2 Tilt Adjustment Bolt Specs?


Does anyone have the specs for the tilt adjustment bolts that go into the bottom of the Voice2 for use with the stand? The most important spec is the thread diameter, but length would be helpful as well. With the thread diameter, I can buy my own combo of bolts/washers.


If anyone has a bolt and would be willing to take it to Home Depot or Lowes which have measuring tables, I would greatly appreciate it (or if you have measuring calipers). I would also appreciate if you could measure the total diameter of the washers used. I have contacted Revel but have not received a response.


If all else fails, I'll go the trial and error route and report back.



Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
A few years ago I participated in a CEDIA panel discussion on elevation loudspeaker options, including a Dolby representative (see attachment). I began by explaining how humans localize sounds at different elevations. It is entirely very high frequency spectral information, and it works most reliably for familiar sounds, so we can notice the directional cues when the sound source is elevated. Our precision of localizing vertically is poor because the ears are in the wrong locations.

There is no doubt that real loudspeakers in the right locations are vastly more convincing than the option of bouncing sounds off the ceiling from upward facing speakers on top of towers or bookshelf units. The artist's renderings of sound "beams" from the upward aimed speakers bouncing off the ceiling are laughable - sound does not propagate that way. Only the most directional high frequency sounds get close, which generates an "effect", but it is much less persuasive than when all of the wide bandwidth sounds originate at elevated locations.

So, one should abandon the real speaker option only if nothing else can be made to work.

The good news is that those speakers may or may not need to be in or on the ceiling. It depends on the geometry of the room. The requirements state that the front and rear elevation speakers should be about 30 or more degrees up from the head location of the prime listener. In my room that permitted quality bookshelf speakers to be suspended from the walls close to the ceiling - they are 35 deg. up and aimed at me so I get the highest quality direct sound.

Being directly overhead is not necessary to generate impressive 3D effects. In the real world few sounds originate from such elevated locations, and some of those in movies end up being localized "up there" even when no speakers were in those locations. Flyovers and hovering helicopters have for decades been successfully portrayed with 5.1 channels. Nothing is ever localized below the floor. The brain knows better and will deliver perceptions that are "plausible". Still, in some movies deliberately steered sound effects come from the elevated speakers and this is where real speakers in those locations are highly advantageous.

Finally, it has to be noted that the four elevated speakers commonly recommended are far fewer than the number available for use by sound mixers in movie production facilities and in upscale Atmos cinemas. We get to hear a "downmixed" sound track, but from my own experience it can still be very impressive.

As for Revel's position with respect to Atmos enabled speakers, I cannot comment. That is a marketing decision, not an engineering one.
May I ask what the quality bookshelf speakers you chose to use were? Are the front and rears the same? Thanks.

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post #14634 of 15246 Old 03-05-2019, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
A few years ago I participated in a CEDIA panel discussion on elevation loudspeaker options, including a Dolby representative (see attachment). I began by explaining how humans localize sounds at different elevations. It is entirely very high frequency spectral information, and it works most reliably for familiar sounds, so we can notice the directional cues when the sound source is elevated. Our precision of localizing vertically is poor because the ears are in the wrong locations.

There is no doubt that real loudspeakers in the right locations are vastly more convincing than the option of bouncing sounds off the ceiling from upward facing speakers on top of towers or bookshelf units. The artist's renderings of sound "beams" from the upward aimed speakers bouncing off the ceiling are laughable - sound does not propagate that way. Only the most directional high frequency sounds get close, which generates an "effect", but it is much less persuasive than when all of the wide bandwidth sounds originate at elevated locations.

So, one should abandon the real speaker option only if nothing else can be made to work.

The good news is that those speakers may or may not need to be in or on the ceiling. It depends on the geometry of the room. The requirements state that the front and rear elevation speakers should be about 30 or more degrees up from the head location of the prime listener. In my room that permitted quality bookshelf speakers to be suspended from the walls close to the ceiling - they are 35 deg. up and aimed at me so I get the highest quality direct sound.

Being directly overhead is not necessary to generate impressive 3D effects. In the real world few sounds originate from such elevated locations, and some of those in movies end up being localized "up there" even when no speakers were in those locations. Flyovers and hovering helicopters have for decades been successfully portrayed with 5.1 channels. Nothing is ever localized below the floor. The brain knows better and will deliver perceptions that are "plausible". Still, in some movies deliberately steered sound effects come from the elevated speakers and this is where real speakers in those locations are highly advantageous.

Finally, it has to be noted that the four elevated speakers commonly recommended are far fewer than the number available for use by sound mixers in movie production facilities and in upscale Atmos cinemas. We get to hear a "downmixed" sound track, but from my own experience it can still be very impressive.

As for Revel's position with respect to Atmos enabled speakers, I cannot comment. That is a marketing decision, not an engineering one.
Dr. Toole,

Thanks for the post and pdf. This isn't what I'd hoped but the science is what it is.

This has been a frustrating experience that IMO is likely due to the relative immaturity of Atmos / DTS:X. While these capabilities are readily available in AVRs, processors, blu ray players, and disks / streamed content, the associated loudspeaker solutions don't seem fully baked. The options today are either ineffective (e.g. elevation speakers) or fairly intrusive (e.g. dedicated rooms, in-ceiling speakers, monitors at height).

It looks like my best option is to wait for manufacturers to innovate solutions that better fit my needs.

Bill

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14635 of 15246 Old 03-05-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jperrybp View Post
May I ask what the quality bookshelf speakers you chose to use were? Are the front and rears the same? Thanks.
4x Revel M106
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post #14636 of 15246 Old 03-05-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Dr. Toole,

Thanks for the post and pdf. This isn't what I'd hoped but the science is what it is.

This has been a frustrating experience that IMO is likely due to the relative immaturity of Atmos / DTS:X. While these capabilities are readily available in AVRs, processors, blu ray players, and disks / streamed content, the associated loudspeaker solutions don't seem fully baked. The options today are either ineffective (e.g. elevation speakers) or fairly intrusive (e.g. dedicated rooms, in-ceiling speakers, monitors at height).

It looks like my best option is to wait for manufacturers to innovate solutions that better fit my needs.

Bill
Living with an immersive system has been an education of a kind. The majority of movies that I am attracted to don't use the immersive features. So this is a personal comment.

The main advantage of a multichannel audio system is to create the impression of "envelopment" - the sense of being in the space one sees on the screen. That was the motivation of movie makers in the beginning. It is ironic that the music industry never saw the need of placing us in a concert hall, cathedral, jazz club or any other venue, with surrounding audience applause to add to the realism if it was a concert. Some music videos do a great job, fortunately; others, not so much. Envelopment is persuasively delivered by even basic 5.1 channel systems (see Section 15.7.1 in the 3rd edition of my book).

Movies that do seriously engage the immersive features, the "blockbuster" adventure tales, can be fun at times, but it is surprising how rarely it is obvious. Does it make the story more credible? Occasionally - "Gravity" for example. Most of those stories are incredible to begin with . Most are shallow fun, not high drama.

So, while you await the ideal solution for your situation, don't feel that you are greatly deprived if you have a good 7.1 system - you are getting most of the good stuff.
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I was pleasantly surprised by The Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" and James Taylor's "Live at the Beacon Theater" when they first came out. Very well mixed and good sounding for early surround on DVD. IMO, we need more well done live concert material. It would beat the heck out of going to the concerts if the live sound is poor.

I was sitting at a restaurant bar a few nights ago and they were playing Don Henley, "Live- Inside Job" DVD. Very well done, killer band and performance. Wish they would remaster some of these in Blu-Ray format.
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post #14638 of 15246 Old 03-05-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
4x Revel M106
Nice. I wish I could pull off some M106s but I simply do not have the floor space for them on stands. I thought about adding some book shelves to get them off the floor since I have the wall space but I'm not sure how that would look in my room (it's not a dedicated home theater so low WAF). I'm not trying to build an Atmos / DTS : X system, I simply want to upgrade my 5.2 system to 7.2. I replaced my FR, FL, and center with Revels last year and I'm looking to replace the old surrounds with some Revels to match the new ones. At this point I think my best bet is some Revel in wall speakers (W5x, W7x, or W8x) and use them for surrounds. They have a nice clean look in the walls with flush grills but I remember reading somewhere here where you said that bookshelf speakers (M106, M105) would be better. So I feel like I'm compromising on the sound for the looks. The question is how much?

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Originally Posted by jperrybp View Post
Nice. I wish I could pull off some M106s but I simply do not have the floor space for them on stands. I thought about adding some book shelves to get them off the floor since I have the wall space but I'm not sure how that would look in my room (it's not a dedicated home theater so low WAF). I'm not trying to build an Atmos / DTS : X system, I simply want to upgrade my 5.2 system to 7.2. I replaced my FR, FL, and center with Revels last year and I'm looking to replace the old surrounds with some Revels to match the new ones. At this point I think my best bet is some Revel in wall speakers (W5x, W7x, or W8x) and use them for surrounds. They have a nice clean look in the walls with flush grills but I remember reading somewhere here where you said that bookshelf speakers (M106, M105) would be better. So I feel like I'm compromising on the sound for the looks. The question is how much?
The Revel in-walls can be excellent speakers. I now have a C783 as the VOG, and in my previous, ca. 2000, 7.1 system an expensive Infinity 3-way in-wall was used as the important center channel - no sound quality compromise. But as with any loudspeaker, sound quality deteriorates as you move off axis. Room EQ cannot compensate for off-axis listening. So, if your installation allows you to be within the listening window of all in-wall speakers go for it. If not, one of the prime reasons for using bookshelf speakers is that they can be aimed at the prime listener. In my case, years ago, my WAF situation improved when she realized that the sound was better. So, from then on, seeing the loudspeakers was regarded as a necessary side effect of having good sound; i.e. better entertainment, which we and our friends enjoy.

I will soon be showing my home theater to the forum and you will see that with my new 9.4.6 system I have exceeded even those generous limits . But at my age and in my circumstances, it is an indulgence and an opportunity to experiment while I can still hear reasonably well.
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Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
The Revel in-walls can be excellent speakers. I now have a C783 as the VOG, and in my previous, ca. 2000, 7.1 system an expensive Infinity 3-way in-wall was used as the important center channel - no sound quality compromise. But as with any loudspeaker, sound quality deteriorates as you move off axis. Room EQ cannot compensate for off-axis listening. So, if your installation allows you to be within the listening window of all in-wall speakers go for it. If not, one of the prime reasons for using bookshelf speakers is that they can be aimed at the prime listener. In my case, years ago, my WAF situation improved when she realized that the sound was better. So, from then on, seeing the loudspeakers was regarded as a necessary side effect of having good sound; i.e. better entertainment, which we and our friends enjoy.

I will soon be showing my home theater to the forum and you will see that with my new 9.4.6 system I have exceeded even those generous limits . But at my age and in my circumstances, it is an indulgence and an opportunity to experiment while I can still hear reasonably well.
Excellent. When the Dr. says go for it I must follow his advice...


Looking forward to seeing your 9.4.6 system. That must be awesome.
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