Revel Owners Thread - Page 490 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14671 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Someone in marketing probably decided the plastic door in back provided a more finished look; mine are still on there but taking them off sounds like a good idea if I have to mess around back there again. For now, out of sight, out of mind...
I really only took mine off because I couldn't close them with the speaker cables connected. Taking them off requires a surprising amount of force and bending, but they came off without any damage.
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post #14672 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtripleone View Post
Dealers will sell you parts if you didn’t buy the product from them? I purchased these used on Audiogon 3 years ago, so I don’t have a warranty.
There's a couple Revel dealers that frequent this forum if you reach out you might be surprised.

Meridian dsp8000,Usher BE-20 DMD dancer, Vienna acoustics Beethoven's and (Strauss for sale), Hegel H360, Roon Nucleus, Rega jupiter cd, Revox s26 tuner,[path]salon2, salon1, f52, r105/3, ads L9e and the infamous bose 901 vI.
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post #14673 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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Had a chance to listen to the M16s and F35s yesterday; they were set up in a shop's listening room with the F35s as conventional wisdom generally suggest towers be positioned (couple of feet away from all walls, slight toe-in towards the MLP) but the M16s were on shelves up high and wider than the listening position, back all the way against the wall. Material was a Norah Jones CD (no idea which one) out of a Sony X800 and played through a Yamaha 3080 on pure direct, no other amps or processors in the chain. We were about 10-12 feet from the towers and a bit more from the bookshelves, which again were also up higher and not pointed at the listening position in any appreciable fashion.

Honestly, the M16s sounded better to me. Couldn't do a true double-blind because of the positioning and they certainly weren't level-matched at the listening position, one of many factors making this little more than a barebones introductory exercise, but the F35s sounded a bit congested while the M16s (terrible positioning and all) were clearer and even had better bass output in this very unconventional situation. My main takeaway from was more that the off-axis response of the M16s is indeed fantastic as opposed to a better/worse type of thing, but I was still surprised at the difference between the two.

Got to listen to the C25 in an Atmos demo and it sounded really boxy and mid-heavy, but I don't know how the receiver was set up and IMO that room is too big for that center. This shop also has both the Studio2s and Salon2s set up and while I didn't get to hear those... the Studios are large but good lord are the Salons massive.

Probably not sharing anything here that Revel vets don't already know but as someone new to the brand it was a neat experience.
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post #14674 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I think Revel is actually smart about spending money on looks where it counts - on the finish and grills. Stuff that's less visible, like the rear and especially inside, doesn't really benefit from getting overly fancy. The super nicely finished binding posts and metal panel they're attached to on the back of my Focal speakers looks great while connecting the speaker cables, but you don't see that every day and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the binding posts on my Revel speakers. On the other hand you do see the finish and grills every time you look at the speakers, so I'm happy that Revel pays attention to those items (Focal speakers have a really nice finish as well, though I'm less impressed with their grill covers). And of course Revel delivers where it really counts: sound quality.
Not me, I pick my speakers by binding post appearance. Secondarily, I look inside them.
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post #14675 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 02:54 PM
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Honestly, the M16s sounded better to me. Couldn't do a true double-blind because of the positioning and they certainly weren't level-matched at the listening position, one of many factors making this little more than a barebones introductory exercise, but the F35s sounded a bit congested while the M16s (terrible positioning and all) were clearer and even had better bass output in this very unconventional situation. My main takeaway from was more that the off-axis response of the M16s is indeed fantastic as opposed to a better/worse type of thing, but I was still surprised at the difference between the two.
I've been looking at the measurements lately and the M16 do seem better than the towers in the higher frequencies, I'm sure the towers have them beat in bass output though. The weird thing is if they can get the M16 so right, why wouldn't they be able to do as good or better as the towers? The F35 have a smaller midwoofer so they should have a smoother response around the crossover while the F36 should match the M16 while having better bass response.

Maybe this is the cynic in me, but sometimes I feel like speaker companies intentionally handicap the lower end speakers to make the higher lines appear to be clear upgrades.
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post #14676 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 02:55 PM
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I agree it is the sound. Like those $200,000(?) B&W snail things. I would not want them in my home. They should literally blow almost anyone away though.

Although I am not sure why a dealer did not have them on better electronics? Even If most people couldn't get that. Most dealers like to hook up to stuff that is going to make any speakers sound their best.
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post #14677 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I've been looking at the measurements lately and the M16 do seem better than the towers in the higher frequencies, I'm sure the towers have them beat in bass output though. The weird thing is if they can get the M16 so right, why wouldn't they be able to do as good or better as the towers? The F35 have a smaller midwoofer so they should have a smoother response around the crossover while the F36 should match the M16 while having better bass response.

Maybe this is the cynic in me, but sometimes I feel like speaker companies intentionally handicap the lower end speakers to make the higher lines appear to be clear upgrades.
No idea and I will say it's entirely possible that having the bookshelves in the same position as the F35s could have resulted in a different sound that made them more alike and/or the F35s have more bass. As far as the towers go though I personally preferred the Klipsch RP6000 and 8000 compared to the 35s when we switched between them, but the M16s were my favorites.

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I agree it is the sound. Like those $200,000(?) B&W snail things. I would not want them in my home. They should literally blow almost anyone away though.

Although I am not sure why a dealer did not have them on better electronics? Even If most people couldn't get that. Most dealers like to hook up to stuff that is going to make any speakers sound their best.
This particular place had several different rooms set up and my guess is that this room was more the higher volume stuff aiming to give folks an idea of the sound like with a 'regular' (albeit flagship) AVR; they had the Revel Concerta 2s, Klipsch RPs, a pair of Monitor Audio bookshelves, and even a Def Tech tower and center. The other rooms that had the Studios, Salons, Goldenear, etc. had much higher-end amplification and processing.
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post #14678 of 15246 Old 03-10-2019, 08:18 PM
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Be tweeters and even harder(Diamond) are usually not to my liking. I do not like soft domes either. Something in the middle like TI or Alum. It all depends on how they damp it though really. The interesting thing is they had used Utopia BE there. I actually felt the 126BE sounded better to me. That says a lot because they were 3 times the price. To me at least. YMMV. Since it is each individuals ears and taste. However I actually liked these for BE. The Scanspeak Diamond which is big money I cannot stand at all. Much to sharp. Since dampening options with that material is limited to begin with. All I am saying is that if you like these, they are a great value. Since any other speakers with BE tweeters I know of are at least 50% more money. Plus these sounded better to me than a lot of them. It is a reference level speaker but warmer than most BE. BE I can usually barely take and Diamond not at all. So I think at least to me that says a lot. The wave guide makes a big difference too. As to speakers that have the tweeters flush mounted. It kind of "feathers" them out. not pointing it right at you. They do have great soundstage nonetheless. PRAT there is better but not at this price with a BE tweeter. A lot is marketing. B&W says their speakers are superior in no small part due to Diamond tweeters. I hate them. They sound like cardboard to me. The 126 not really at all. I probably would not use an AVR with these. At least use the passthrough to a good amp. I feel they would make great fronts or just 2 Channel. They kind of do need a sub IMO. Crossing them over is a bit more difficult than other speakers though IMO. Although you only need to set them up once. Especially with BE I would not do final setup until fully broken in. The Xover point may vastly change during that time. I guess I would say a $2,500 2 Channel 100WPC amp is about right for them. Although these days there are indeed some very good AVR's so I really could not comment on that. MY theater is a dedicated room with a processor and all separate amps. I am just saying I have not used an AVR in like 20 years so I don't really know. I do know to most people budget is of concern. In that regard the 126 brings a great value IMO. I only listened to speakers I knew I would like. It is not the KEF Reference 1 which is all Aluminum but major price difference. That just goes to show fancy materials are not the end product. There is a lot more involved. Although I still mainly dislike tweeters that hard and harder. These are pretty good to me though.

Sorry for no paragraphs I am not feeling very well. I just wanted to offer whatever advice I felt I could. Of course in the end it is your ears and taste plus budget that shall dictate what you ultimately get.
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post #14679 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 07:59 AM
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All Revel speakers have the same goal, neutral sound on and off axis. Hard to compare with others that don't offer measurements, but don't be fooled by thinking speakers with non-linear low or high frequency response sound "better".

Read through some of this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57682664
Hi Rex,

The latest electronic newsletter from John Schuermann contained an article written by Dr Toole concerning his home system. It was fascinating to read and packed with details. Following is a link to the article.

https://thescreeningroomav.us13.list...b&e=4f0a4e0c7d

Not sure why it does not appear as a link. Copying and pasting it should work.
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post #14680 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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Hi Rex,

The latest electronic newsletter from John Schuermann contained an article written by Dr Toole concerning his home system. It was fascinating to read and packed with details. Following is a link to the article.

https://thescreeningroomav.us13.list...b&e=4f0a4e0c7d

Not sure why it does not appear as a link. Copying and pasting it should work.
It changed to a link when I posted the message. Interesting.
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post #14681 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 08:23 AM
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I don't want to mention any other brand names but there are some brands that when I put the individual drivers alongside each other I can't help but develop a bias regardless of how the finished product sounds. Just look at the woofers in the new persona series! In the 90's the stuff I could afford it was easy to predict how a speaker would sound by the dome material and anything with a 'waveguide' was considered just another form of horn loading that came with their own set of calculable issues that always ended up with cupped hands sounding voices. I don't think most people could tell what a modern well engineered speakers drivers are made out of by listening to them. and the more I drag different hi-end speakers into my listening room the more alike than different I find most of these speakers sound.

Meridian dsp8000,Usher BE-20 DMD dancer, Vienna acoustics Beethoven's and (Strauss for sale), Hegel H360, Roon Nucleus, Rega jupiter cd, Revox s26 tuner,[path]salon2, salon1, f52, r105/3, ads L9e and the infamous bose 901 vI.
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post #14682 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Aja View Post
Hi Rex,

The latest electronic newsletter from John Schuermann contained an article written by Dr Toole concerning his home system. It was fascinating to read and packed with details. Following is a link to the article.

https://thescreeningroomav.us13.list...b&e=4f0a4e0c7d

Not sure why it does not appear as a link. Copying and pasting it should work.

Hi Aja,

Yes, I am aware of the article, it's also on The Screening Room's recent blog on the website. We were hoping to get it posted here on the Revel thread at the same time but ran into some delays. The cat's out of the bag now!

It's very generous of Dr. Toole to share this valuable information with us. Many (most?) of us do not have the luxury of having a room to build a dedicated Home Theater in our homes, so seeing what is possible in a good sized living room is very important and useful IMO.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 03-11-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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post #14683 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 09:41 AM
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Unless I missed it, all of the equipment is identified except the subwoofers.
?????

 

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post #14684 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Unless I missed it, all of the equipment is identified except the subwoofers.?????
It states: Audio processor: JBL Synthesis/Trinnov SDP75-24 set up to do Sound Field Management employing four JBL Synthesis HTPS-400s.

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product.../htps-400.html
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post #14685 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 10:03 AM
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It states: Audio processor: JBL Synthesis/Trinnov SDP75-24 set up to do Sound Field Management employing four JBL Synthesis HTPS-400s.

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product.../htps-400.html
Thanks, John.
I wasn't perceptive enough to figured that out.

 

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post #14686 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 10:22 AM
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I don't think most people could tell what a modern well engineered speakers drivers are made out of by listening to them. and the more I drag different hi-end speakers into my listening room the more alike than different I find most of these speakers sound.
Thank you for noticing that science and good engineering work. The diaphragm materials are important, and their importance is revealed in measurements. Get the measurements right, using whatever material - and there are many options - and good sound will result. It is not mysterious.
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post #14687 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 11:48 AM
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I don't think most people could tell what a modern well engineered speakers drivers are made out of by listening to them. and the more I drag different hi-end speakers into my listening room the more alike than different I find most of these speakers sound.
Thank you for noticing that science and good engineering work. The diaphragm materials are important, and their importance is revealed in measurements. Get the measurements right, using whatever material - and there are many options - and good sound will result. It is not mysterious.
Absolutely impressed by your home setup that John shared in his newsletter. Like you and many others that don't have a dedicated room a Home Theater, it is cool to see how people adapt.
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post #14688 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 12:08 PM
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Can anyone with M-Stands confirm that you can route the speaker wire up through the shaft of the stand so it is hidden except where it exits to connect to the speaker? Much appreciated as I can't seem to find very good photos online and the revel documentation makes them appear as though you can't route the wire up them.

Cheers,
Nic
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post #14689 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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Can anyone with M-Stands confirm that you can route the speaker wire up through the shaft of the stand so it is hidden except where it exits to connect to the speaker? Much appreciated as I can't seem to find very good photos online and the revel documentation makes them appear as though you can't route the wire up them.

Cheers,
Nic
You cannot, but there is a little velcro strip attached to the back of the stands stands to route speakerwire.
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post #14690 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 12:38 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply. One more quick one, is the 'piano white' color of the performa3 series the same as 'gloss white' of the performaBe?
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post #14691 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 01:02 PM
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I would imagine, but not entirely sure. Do please note the M-stands are satin in terms of finish, while the speakers themselves are glossy.
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post #14692 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply. One more quick one, is the 'piano white' color of the performa3 series the same as 'gloss white' of the PerformaBe?

Performa3 Series M105 finishes are Piano Black, Piano White, or High Gloss Walnut. The rest of the Performa 3 Series only come in Piano Black or High Gloss Walnut. The Concerta2 series comes in a High Gloss White. I think Piano White and High Gloss White are the same.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 03-11-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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post #14693 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 01:40 PM
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Hi all - looking into some Revels.



Short version: I can get new M16s from an authorized dealer for $400 a pair. I really liked the Elac UB5s but the ultimately made my ears hurt/too fatigued at low volumes and I already have some others in the price range like Jamo C93s (energetic sound, digs down, but sibilant and a but unrefined). Are the M16s that different overall or just trading strengths?



My room is pretty forgiving, they would be powered by a 100W AVR and music listening would be in direct mode while theater use would engage a DIY 15" sub. $400 seems a great price relative to list for these but I don't want to waste my or the dealer's time or money if they won't be much different from, say, the UB5s or the RP600M ($350/pair at the same dealer).
$400 a pair is a great price. Let us know the dealer, either here or through PM.

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post #14694 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 01:46 PM
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Hi Rex,

The latest electronic newsletter from John Schuermann contained an article written by Dr Toole concerning his home system. It was fascinating to read and packed with details. Following is a link to the article.

https://thescreeningroomav.us13.list...b&e=4f0a4e0c7d

.
Great read. Interesting to see the M106 in vertical orientation. I suppose at that height, first lateral reflections are not of much importance - and it looks much less obtrusive. Thank you Dr. Toole for the updated insight in your home, and thank you John for organising it.
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post #14695 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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^A big +1. This was a fun read. Dr. Toole, thanks for sharing this.
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14696 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 07:47 PM
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Be tweeters and even harder(Diamond) are usually not to my liking. I do not like soft domes either. Something in the middle like TI or Alum. It all depends on how they damp it though really. The interesting thing is they had used Utopia BE there. I actually felt the 126BE sounded better to me. That says a lot because they were 3 times the price. To me at least. YMMV. Since it is each individuals ears and taste. However I actually liked these for BE. The Scanspeak Diamond which is big money I cannot stand at all. Much to sharp. Since dampening options with that material is limited to begin with. All I am saying is that if you like these, they are a great value. Since any other speakers with BE tweeters I know of are at least 50% more money. Plus these sounded better to me than a lot of them. It is a reference level speaker but warmer than most BE. BE I can usually barely take and Diamond not at all. So I think at least to me that says a lot. The wave guide makes a big difference too. As to speakers that have the tweeters flush mounted. It kind of "feathers" them out. not pointing it right at you. They do have great soundstage nonetheless. PRAT there is better but not at this price with a BE tweeter. A lot is marketing. B&W says their speakers are superior in no small part due to Diamond tweeters. I hate them. They sound like cardboard to me. The 126 not really at all. I probably would not use an AVR with these. At least use the passthrough to a good amp. I feel they would make great fronts or just 2 Channel. They kind of do need a sub IMO. Crossing them over is a bit more difficult than other speakers though IMO. Although you only need to set them up once. Especially with BE I would not do final setup until fully broken in. The Xover point may vastly change during that time. I guess I would say a $2,500 2 Channel 100WPC amp is about right for them. Although these days there are indeed some very good AVR's so I really could not comment on that. MY theater is a dedicated room with a processor and all separate amps. I am just saying I have not used an AVR in like 20 years so I don't really know. I do know to most people budget is of concern. In that regard the 126 brings a great value IMO. I only listened to speakers I knew I would like. It is not the KEF Reference 1 which is all Aluminum but major price difference. That just goes to show fancy materials are not the end product. There is a lot more involved. Although I still mainly dislike tweeters that hard and harder. These are pretty good to me though.

Sorry for no paragraphs I am not feeling very well. I just wanted to offer whatever advice I felt I could. Of course in the end it is your ears and taste plus budget that shall dictate what you ultimately get.
B&W has a funky frequency response but that has nothing to do with the material. Both the Accuton and Seas diamond tweeters are much more rolled off.

B&W 805D3




Accuton B20



Seas T29D


You can see only the B&W has the rising response from 3-10K.
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post #14697 of 15246 Old 03-11-2019, 08:43 PM
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Performa3 Series M105 finishes are Piano Black, Piano White, or High Gloss Walnut. The rest of the Performa 3 Series only come in Piano Black or High Gloss Walnut. The Concerta2 series comes in a High Gloss White. I think Piano White and High Gloss White are the same.
Doesn't the F106 also come in piano white? I'm leaning towards the white F106 towers for my rear surrounds to pair with my white 228Be's as they are very visible in my room and I don't want to see the wires like I would with mounted bookshelves.
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post #14698 of 15246 Old 03-12-2019, 12:49 AM
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Doesn't the F106 also come in piano white? I'm leaning towards the white F106 towers for my rear surrounds to pair with my white 228Be's as they are very visible in my room and I don't want to see the wires like I would with mounted bookshelves.
The F206 indeed also come in white.
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post #14699 of 15246 Old 03-12-2019, 07:20 AM
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The F206 indeed also come in white.
Of course Tim is correct. Sorry I got that wrong. I find it odd that some models come in white and some don't.

F is for floor standing models, M is for monitors. So it's F208 and F206, M106 and M105.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 03-12-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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post #14700 of 15246 Old 03-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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^And C for center presumably though that one is pretty obvious.
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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