Revel Owners Thread - Page 494 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14791 of 15246 Old 03-28-2019, 10:04 AM
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I lost my reply yesterday also. Are you 100% it ain’t the amp? Crossing over above 75hz might be a xover in the sub. I had distortion coming from a pair of speakers that I didn’t notice at low volume because with the clean bass output the amp distortion went unnoticed until turned up. Fortunately for me I have multiples of amps, speakers etc I was able to diagnose the problem myself. Maybe in your situation you can ask revel service for some values and pick up a cheap multimeter?

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post #14792 of 15246 Old 03-28-2019, 12:02 PM
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Anyone here have revel M80XC outdoor speaker? What do you think of them?
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post #14793 of 15246 Old 03-30-2019, 04:49 PM
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Just listened to some F208s today and I was sold. The 206 held up surprisingly well, I could easily live with it as well for music without a sub if I had to. Getting a 7.1 system; was leaning towards Paradigm prestige until I heard the Revels - the revels are much more natural/neutral sounding. Prestige were nice, but just a little too much sizzle up top. Been reading countless pages of this thread which helped me decide to go audition the Revels.
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post #14794 of 15246 Old 03-30-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
Just listened to some F208s today and I was sold. The 206 held up surprisingly well, I could easily live with it as well for music without a sub if I had to. Getting a 7.1 system; was leaning towards Paradigm prestige until I heard the Revels - the revels are much more natural/neutral sounding. Prestige were nice, but just a little too much sizzle up top. Been reading countless pages of this thread which helped me decide to go audition the Revels.
Congrats!
What’s the rest of the system?
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post #14795 of 15246 Old 03-30-2019, 11:36 PM
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Congrats!
What’s the rest of the system?
C208, S206 for side surround. Hoping to fit in Revel in walls for rear surround, but stud spacing is an issue I think. I may be able to fit the narrow 2x5" model, which is the narrowest. Sub is Hsu 15" ported. Plan to add a second one.
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post #14796 of 15246 Old 03-31-2019, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
Just listened to some F208s today and I was sold. The 206 held up surprisingly well, I could easily live with it as well for music without a sub if I had to. Getting a 7.1 system; was leaning towards Paradigm prestige until I heard the Revels - the revels are much more natural/neutral sounding. Prestige were nice, but just a little too much sizzle up top. Been reading countless pages of this thread which helped me decide to go audition the Revels.
Congratulations! Like you, I recently started researching what qualities to consider for speakers and learned that, unsurprisingly, an accurate frequency response with excellent off axis response plays a huge role in the sound quality of a speaker. Of course, Revel's are designed from the ground up with this in mind, unlike many speakers, even very expensive models, that unfortunately have very poor frequency response...maybe intentionally??? It's nice to see that the objective data presented in the thread was backed up by your subjective impressions when you listened to the Revels in person compared to other options. Keep us posted!
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post #14797 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Question for Harman experts. I followed John’s blind comparison between the JBL Synthesis M2s and the Salon Ultima 2s so I know the Revels take the edge in two channel.
However, what would be better for a strictly home theater system, Salon 2s or M2s. Assume 4 subwoofers and an acoustic transparent screen. Also assume room is big enough for 7 of each to breathe.
My assumption based on what I have read and my experience with hearing JBL Synthesis Array 1400s with twin JL 212s is high efficiency would have the nod. Granted, either would be more than amazing but which would rule?
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This doesn't address your actual question, but perhaps regarding your last stated assumption, the previous edition of Floyd Toole's book Sound Reproduction includes the following text: "Figure 18.17 shows samples of two excellent, high-priced loudspeakers, that do almost everything well. To these should be added loudspeakers “R” and “I” in Figure 18.14. Collectively, these are examples of the present-day “kings of the hill.” There are others, of course, but the measurements do not look very different. When they are put against each other in double-blind tests, the audible differences are small, somewhat program dependent, and listener ratings tend to vary slightly and randomly around a high number. In the end there may be no absolute winner that is revealed with any statistical confidence; the differences in opinion are of the same size as those that could occur by chance."

I'm 99.99% certain that the speaker in 18.17a is the Studio2 and 18.17b the Array 1400, so if you liked the Array 1400s, it's almost certain that you would like both the Studio2 and M2. It might be helpful to include some information about the acoustics of the home theater room, as well as your own listening preferences (imaging, reflections, etc).
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post #14798 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 08:12 AM
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F35s upgrade path

I own the F35s and like their sound but would like to upgrade to their Performa line. I am looking for more clarity and detail, or refinement in sound. I have two subs (PSA15), using an Anthem MRX720 to power them. I have read a lot of the reviews for the F206/208's and now the 228be. My room is fairly large and rectangular. 21 x 32 not dedicated, not treated. I mainly listen to music, but it doubles as our "theater"

I am leaning towards F206 based on all the reading I have done in this thread, but I have not listened to them. I also thought the smaller BEs but concerned they would be lost in the room. The 208s seems excessive with my 2 subs. Then with talk about maybe a 226be, who knows. I live in SoFla and there is nowhere to go and listen to them.

A few questions for the group:

1. Considering the above - Will the 206 provide a significant upgrade in highs and mids compared to the 35s?
2. Should I consider the 208s? I read they are more dynamic, but also read the tweeter and mid in 206 is the same.
3. Is the better path to wait for the 226s?
4. Will my great room simply negate any significant expense based on size/use?


Owning the 35s has been a revelation as to the Revel sound, simply fits my ears and conveys an emotional aspect that I enjoy.

Thanks in advance for your time, this particular owner’s thread is filled with great discussion and knowledge.
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post #14799 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 08:31 AM
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The Revel F35 is an excellent speaker in it's price range, but the Performa3 Series is a good step up in refinement of sound which helps when listening for detail. Given you have 2 subs, I think the F206's are a good way to go. No one knows if or when the F226Be may be released.

If you are sitting at a reasonable distance from your speakers, the size of your room should not be an issue. It's not like a concert hall with a PA system attempting to reach high SPLs and cover a wide seating area. Bass managed F206's with your Anthem AVR will play quite loud.

Do you have a center channel and surround speakers? If not, you could use your F35's as rear surrounds, get a C208 for a center channel and have an excellent 5.2 system for home theater.
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post #14800 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngho View Post
This doesn't address your actual question, but perhaps regarding your last stated assumption, the previous edition of Floyd Toole's book Sound Reproduction includes the following text: "Figure 18.17 shows samples of two excellent, high-priced loudspeakers, that do almost everything well. To these should be added loudspeakers “R” and “I” in Figure 18.14. Collectively, these are examples of the present-day “kings of the hill.” There are others, of course, but the measurements do not look very different. When they are put against each other in double-blind tests, the audible differences are small, somewhat program dependent, and listener ratings tend to vary slightly and randomly around a high number. In the end there may be no absolute winner that is revealed with any statistical confidence; the differences in opinion are of the same size as those that could occur by chance."



I'm 99.99% certain that the speaker in 18.17a is the Studio2 and 18.17b the Array 1400, so if you liked the Array 1400s, it's almost certain that you would like both the Studio2 and M2. It might be helpful to include some information about the acoustics of the home theater room, as well as your own listening preferences (imaging, reflections, etc).


Thank you for the response. I have actually auditioned the Studio 2 in my room. The Studio 2 had the better highs and the speakers I went with had better bass response “in my room.” What drove my decision was being able to fit the center channel. I became a big Revel fan and thus follow this thread in case opportunity knocks in the future. While the Array 1400s were impressive I don’t think the highs were in the Ultima 2 class. They also were quite large and not much to look at.
My question basically falls to “for strictly HT, would high efficiency designs be better than audiophile lower efficiency where levels are in same ballpark?” I am not trying to say GSR’s, Don H’s, and RichB’s Ultima 2 systems are not amazing for HT - I am positive they are plus they do multichannel music better than almost anything. For music and HT use, Ultima 2 for sure.


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post #14801 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW222 View Post
I own the F35s and like their sound but would like to upgrade to their Performa line. I am looking for more clarity and detail, or refinement in sound. I have two subs (PSA15), using an Anthem MRX720 to power them. I have read a lot of the reviews for the F206/208's and now the 228be. My room is fairly large and rectangular. 21 x 32 not dedicated, not treated. I mainly listen to music, but it doubles as our "theater"

I am leaning towards F206 based on all the reading I have done in this thread, but I have not listened to them. I also thought the smaller BEs but concerned they would be lost in the room. The 208s seems excessive with my 2 subs. Then with talk about maybe a 226be, who knows. I live in SoFla and there is nowhere to go and listen to them.

A few questions for the group:

1. Considering the above - Will the 206 provide a significant upgrade in highs and mids compared to the 35s?
2. Should I consider the 208s? I read they are more dynamic, but also read the tweeter and mid in 206 is the same.
3. Is the better path to wait for the 226s?
4. Will my great room simply negate any significant expense based on size/use?


Owning the 35s has been a revelation as to the Revel sound, simply fits my ears and conveys an emotional aspect that I enjoy.

Thanks in advance for your time, this particular owner’s thread is filled with great discussion and knowledge.
I imagine you would be just as happy with the 206's as the 208's for HT. You would like the 208's better if you plan on listening to music with the subs off. I have the 208's with a pair of PSA V1801's. For HT and multi-channel music, I use the subs, obviously, but for two-channel music I switch to running the 208's full range. Doesn't make too much difference, though, to be honest. Partly I do it because I'm usually listening to music later at night, and I have a problem with low bass waves escaping through the windows in my HT room and bothering a neighbor.

I haven't heard the -be versions that much, but my impression is that they are not worth the added cost. Someone I know who upgraded from the F208 to the 228be reportedly concurs. I'd stick with the Performa3 line.

Not sure where you live, exactly, but there appear to be a number of dealers in South Florida.

https://revelspeakers.com/where-to-buy-revel.html

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post #14802 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
The Revel F35 is an excellent speaker in it's price range, but the Performa3 Series is a good step up in refinement of sound which helps when listening for detail. Given you have 2 subs, I think the F206's are a good way to go. No one knows if or when the F226Be may be released.

If you are sitting at a reasonable distance from your speakers, the size of your room should not be an issue. It's not like a concert hall with a PA system attempting to reach high SPLs and cover a wide seating area. Bass managed F206's with your Anthem AVR will play quite loud.

Do you have a center channel and surround speakers? If not, you could use your F35's as rear surrounds, get a C208 for a center channel and have an excellent 5.2 system for home theater.

Thank you, the C208 is a consideration. When we built the house we added in ceiling for surrounds..No place for the 35s in this room.
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post #14803 of 15246 Old 04-01-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kansashoops View Post
I imagine you would be just as happy with the 206's as the 208's for HT. You would like the 208's better if you plan on listening to music with the subs off. I have the 208's with a pair of PSA V1801's. For HT and multi-channel music, I use the subs, obviously, but for two-channel music I switch to running the 208's full range. Doesn't make too much difference, though, to be honest. Partly I do it because I'm usually listening to music later at night, and I have a problem with low bass waves escaping through the windows in my HT room and bothering a neighbor.

I haven't heard the -be versions that much, but my impression is that they are not worth the added cost. Someone I know who upgraded from the F208 to the 228be reportedly concurs. I'd stick with the Performa3 line.

Not sure where you live, exactly, but there appear to be a number of dealers in South Florida.

https://revelspeakers.com/where-to-buy-revel.html
Thanks. The dealers here are home automation folks, I called the one that has a showroom and they don't have any to demo..
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post #14804 of 15246 Old 04-02-2019, 06:25 AM
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Do the have any reference customers that might let you listen?

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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #14805 of 15246 Old 04-02-2019, 08:08 AM
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Please note that these curves are not just a new format, but have been made with an entirely new measurement system, using the Klippel Analyzer, along with an updated anechoic chamber LF calibration. Therefore, these updated measurements, done with the same system, allow for valid comparisons.
avkv - thank you for your invaluable input in this thread. Have you measured Performa3 and Ultima2 models using the new system? If so, would it be possible for you to post the new spins?

Also, could you share power compression measurements, or another way to indicate which models would be sufficient for particular listening levels? The M105 is flat almost to 60 Hz at 85 dB, but you have commented that the greater upper and mid bass output of larger models is an advantage even at moderate levels. At what levels do the output limitations of each model become subjectively significant?
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post #14806 of 15246 Old 04-03-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Thank you for the response. I have actually auditioned the Studio 2 in my room. The Studio 2 had the better highs and the speakers I went with had better bass response “in my room.” What drove my decision was being able to fit the center channel. I became a big Revel fan and thus follow this thread in case opportunity knocks in the future. While the Array 1400s were impressive I don’t think the highs were in the Ultima 2 class. They also were quite large and not much to look at.
My question basically falls to “for strictly HT, would high efficiency designs be better than audiophile lower efficiency where levels are in same ballpark?” I am not trying to say GSR’s, Don H’s, and RichB’s Ultima 2 systems are not amazing for HT - I am positive they are plus they do multichannel music better than almost anything. For music and HT use, Ultima 2 for sure.


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Oops, I'm sorry. I meant to write that Speaker A in Figure 18.17 was the Salon 2, NOT the Studio 2. I'm not sure that your experience with the Array 1400 necessarily reflects their efficiency, which is only 89 dB. I think the answer to your question "for strictly HT, would high efficiency designs be better than audiophile lower efficiency where levels are in same ballpark?” likely depends on what those levels actually are (85 dB? 90 dB? 95 dB?), thus may reflect size and acoustics of your home theater.
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post #14807 of 15246 Old 04-03-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
avkv - thank you for your invaluable input in this thread. Have you measured Performa3 and Ultima2 models using the new system? If so, would it be possible for you to post the new spins?

Also, could you share power compression measurements, or another way to indicate which models would be sufficient for particular listening levels? The M105 is flat almost to 60 Hz at 85 dB, but you have commented that the greater upper and mid bass output of larger models is an advantage even at moderate levels. At what levels do the output limitations of each model become subjectively significant?
Sorry, but if it helps, Soundstage does have some measurements of distortions and deviations from linearity, which I believe reflects compression, if I understand correctly.

You can see that the Salon2 seems to have very little deviation from linearity at 90 dB: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/me...ultima_salon2/

Compare with the original Studio (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/me...ultima_studio/ but you'll have to compare with the on-axis measurement), F206 (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153), M106 (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153).
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post #14808 of 15246 Old 04-09-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kansashoops View Post

I haven't heard the -be versions that much, but my impression is that they are not worth the added cost. Someone I know who upgraded from the F208 to the 228be reportedly concurs. I'd stick with the Performa3 line.

Has anyone spent any time listening to both the F208's and the F228Be's and can speak to whether the 228's are worth the additional cost?
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Any news or rumors on the rest of PerformaBe line?
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post #14810 of 15246 Old 04-09-2019, 07:46 PM
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Any news or rumors on the rest of PerformaBe line?
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post #14811 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 06:17 AM
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I live in SoFla and there is nowhere to go and listen to them.
Sound Advice carries them. I've listened to the 206 at the store in Pinecrest. Also Sound Components in South Miami.
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post #14812 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 06:33 AM
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Sound Advice carries them. I've listened to the 206 at the store in Pinecrest. Also Sound Components in South Miami.
Thanks can you share a link to the Sound Advice store? all links are dead and it says the store is closed. Sound components doesn't have them in stock.
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post #14813 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 06:37 AM
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Hmmm, maybe they did close. I listened to them in the last 12 months.
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Anyone have height measurements of a voice2 on the revel stand? The stand claims to add 2 feet of height to the speaker. Is that a misprint? The speaker itself is 15". On the stand is it really 38" from ground to top of speaker? Thanks for the assist!
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Has anyone spent any time listening to both the F208's and the F228Be's and can speak to whether the 228's are worth the additional cost?
The F228 was reportedly preferred in Revel’s blind tests.

The measurements of the F208 and F228 are difficult to compare because they depart from the ideal in different ways: the F208 has a broad, shallow depression in the treble and a crossover dip off axis, and the F228 has a resonance at 700 Hz and some space between the on axis response and the listening window. Which of these errors are more significant? Perhaps none of them are audible.

Output capability is probably the clearest differentiator. It would be helpful if Revel and other manufacturers provided meaningful data in this area.
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post #14816 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 08:18 AM
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Sorry, but if it helps, Soundstage does have some measurements of distortions and deviations from linearity, which I believe reflects compression, if I understand correctly.

You can see that the Salon2 seems to have very little deviation from linearity at 90 dB: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/me...ultima_salon2/

Compare with the original Studio (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/me...ultima_studio/ but you'll have to compare with the on-axis measurement), F206 (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153), M106 (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153).
Thank you for this suggestion, but @Floyd Toole has commented that the Soundstage power compression measurements are not an accurate way to characterize real world performance. Here's one of his posts on the subject: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post54361057
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post #14817 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 08:26 AM
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Anyone have height measurements of a voice2 on the revel stand? The stand claims to add 2 feet of height to the speaker. Is that a misprint? The speaker itself is 15". On the stand is it really 38" from ground to top of speaker? Thanks for the assist!
I'm not home right now to measure, but that's definitely incorrect. The total height depends a bit on how the spikes are adjusted, but 2 feet total is probably closer to being accurate.
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post #14818 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Thank you for this suggestion, but @Floyd Toole has commented that the Soundstage power compression measurements are not an accurate way to characterize real world performance. Here's one of his posts on the subject: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post54361057
Hmm, perhaps starting with "Sorry, but if it helps..." wasn't clear. "Sorry" was meant to convey that I understood I wasn't answering your question, and "But if it helps" was supposed to suggest that the following information might be more useful than the complete absence of any information or response.

In any case, in the link posted, Floyd Toole wrote "In reality, very high frequencies in programs are much lower in amplitude than bass-mids and they are most often transient in nature, so this example (which is from my old measuring system at the NRCC I have to say in fairness) greatly exaggerates the problem" for the Salon 2, but if one compares with the Studio, F206, and M106, there is a little more high frequency deviation for the Studio, midrange compression for the F206 at lower levels, and midrange and bass compression for the M106 at lower levels, so it seems to me that there seems to be less compression as one moves up the line. When I asked about the preference for the Salon 2 over the F228Be, Kevin Voecks responded by saying, "I suspect one of the differences is heard when they are played louder, where nonlinearities can occur. It is especially at moderately high levels where I hear the biggest difference. (I don't play anything dangerously loud.) The other possibility is as you stated, the almost total lack of diffraction with the Salon2s."

In any case, I apologize for having replied and will not take up more of your time.

Young-Ho
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post #14819 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I'm not home right now to measure, but that's definitely incorrect. The total height depends a bit on how the spikes are adjusted, but 2 feet total is probably closer to being accurate.
Thanks! Perhaps they should have stated 'Makes the total height of the voice2 with stand 24.2"' instead of 'Adds 24.2" to voice2 height'
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post #14820 of 15246 Old 04-10-2019, 10:47 AM
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Revel In Wall W763

I tried to order some Revel W763. I was told they were discontinued. Possibly updated to the W763A. Any info out there? I need 4.
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