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post #14971 of 15252 Old 05-03-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Tend to agree on 2 channel playback. Anthem ARC used for 7.1 but for 2 channel, the front floorstanders play full range without correction. The room was built to an acoustic analysis and 3 days of listening and positioning the floorstanders to their optimal location.
If you view the uncorrected sound as being "better" and correction being unnecessary given what sounds like extensive steps taken in room construction and setup, wouldn't the logical solution be to disable it for both purposes?
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post #14972 of 15252 Old 05-03-2019, 01:05 PM
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If you view the uncorrected sound as being "better" and correction being unnecessary given what sounds like extensive steps taken in room construction and setup, wouldn't the logical solution be to disable it for both purposes?
Touché.

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post #14973 of 15252 Old 05-03-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles J P View Post
If you view the uncorrected sound as being "better" and correction being unnecessary given what sounds like extensive steps taken in room construction and setup, wouldn't the logical solution be to disable it for both purposes?
Just took a look at my settings as it has been quite some time: Feeding 2 channel analog out from the DVD-A1UDCI to the D2v3D. Playback is in Source Direct and ARC is Not Available. Movies and multichannel with 2 in room subs plus an infinite baffle enclosure with (4) 15" drivers, ARC was the finishing touch to getting it all dialed in. All good, a room i can escape to for movies and music and not be disturbed.
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post #14974 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 06:05 AM
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New HT setup

I am piecing together a HT setup. I have a couple questions. Going with a 7.2.4 Atmos. Room is 16W x 18L x 8H.


Equipment:


Panasonic UB900
Marantz ND8006
Maranatz SR7013
Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 to drive all but C763s
F208s Fronts
C208 Center
W763 X4 Surrounds and Surround Back
C763 X4 Atmos
Rythmik FV18 X2


I have everything except the W763s and C763s and FV18s. I am building the room from scratch by myself. I plan on waiting for the subs and any room treatments. (Budget constraints).


My question. I know the 763s are all infinite baffle, but to keep sound in the room (leakage) should I build back boxes? I was thinking 5 sided mounted to the studs and joists. That makes then about 14" wide. I was thinking 6" deep and 24" long for each. IS this a good idea or will it negatively affect performance. Also should these boxes be filled with anything?
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post #14975 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 11:13 AM
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https://www.parts-express.com/acoust...erial--260-317

Works great and is relatively inexpensive. Here are the dinensions I found on Revel.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.W...wgHaCs&pid=Api


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post #14976 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
I am piecing together a HT setup. I have a couple questions. Going with a 7.2.4 Atmos. Room is 16W x 18L x 8H.


Equipment:


Panasonic UB900
Marantz ND8006
Maranatz SR7013
Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 to drive all but C763s
F208s Fronts
C208 Center
W763 X4 Surrounds and Surround Back
C763 X4 Atmos
Rythmik FV18 X2


I have everything except the W763s and C763s and FV18s. I am building the room from scratch by myself. I plan on waiting for the subs and any room treatments. (Budget constraints).


My question. I know the 763s are all infinite baffle, but to keep sound in the room (leakage) should I build back boxes? I was thinking 5 sided mounted to the studs and joists. That makes then about 14" wide. I was thinking 6" deep and 24" long for each. IS this a good idea or will it negatively affect performance. Also should these boxes be filled with anything?
Are you asking about a back box for the W763? The back box is already integrated into the C763L.
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post #14977 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 11:31 AM
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Wow. Thanks for the dimensions. Should work for all of them.
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post #14978 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 11:32 AM
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I do believe the c763l have a back box. The c763 does not.
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post #14979 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 04:52 PM
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When I put my paradigm architectural subs in, they sold back boxes that costed more than the drivers themselves! I looked up the dimensions of their back boxes and framed my own in the ceiling and filled them with acoustistuff. You should be able to do the same if you are building the walls new. Existing walls aren’t so easy.


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post #14980 of 15252 Old 05-05-2019, 05:29 PM
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The advantage of the C763L is you can aim them at the listening position to get on axis response.
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post #14981 of 15252 Old 05-06-2019, 10:10 AM
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The advantage of the C763L is you can aim them at the listening position to get on axis response.

Rex, with the off axis capability of the Revel brand, would not the C763s be wonderful for an atmos setup? Just thinking about the $1000 price jump when comparing to the C763Ls. I do like the idea of not necessarily having to build boxes for these speakers.


Are there other benefits to the C763Ls I am not looking at?


John
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post #14982 of 15252 Old 05-06-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Rex, with the off axis capability of the Revel brand, would not the C763s be wonderful for an atmos setup? Just thinking about the $1000 price jump when comparing to the C763Ls. I do like the idea of not necessarily having to build boxes for these speakers.


Are there other benefits to the C763Ls I am not looking at?


John


I apologize for my earlier post. I thought you were looking at in-wall speakers.


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post #14983 of 15252 Old 05-06-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Rex, with the off axis capability of the Revel brand, would not the C763s be wonderful for an atmos setup? Just thinking about the $1000 price jump when comparing to the C763Ls. I do like the idea of not necessarily having to build boxes for these speakers. Are there other benefits to the C763Ls I am not looking at? John
The C763 is a down firing speaker when ceiling mounted. Even with the waveguide the tweeter is mounted in, you will not get as much on axis response as you can with the C763L. The C763L is the speaker used by the majority of pro audio for video mixing facilities. It is a 3 way design, has a larger woofer, built in back box, will handle more power and play louder than the C763. 4 pounds vs 2.4 pounds.

Download the manuals and compare specs. https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...uct/c763l.html

https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...duct/c763.html

If you can afford them, I think the C763L is a superior speaker for Atmos. If you're going to spend the time, effort and expense of installing in ceiling speakers, I would put in the best speakers. Long term investment, buy once, cry once. Atmos is in it's infancy and the number of mixes using the format is growing. Helicopter flyovers etc may stress lesser speakers that can't handle the program material feeding them.

I'm not saying the C763 is not a good speaker. They will sound good depending on what you are asking them to do (how loud you want them to play). Dr. Toole stresses the importance of getting the most on axis response you can from all speakers. You may not be able to EQ the C763 to correct the off axis response.

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 05-06-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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post #14984 of 15252 Old 05-06-2019, 12:05 PM
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I'm using 4 C363s for my atmos with good results. The tweeters are aimable and i have them pointed at the main listening area. I have the W763s as the side and back channels. The atmos content is handled just fine for me. Down the road they are easy to take out and put in another one of a higher series but i haven't felt the need to do it.

The off axis is where the revels really shine. I'm using a Marantz SR7012. Audyssey handles them just fine. I get deeper extension with the C363s than the W763s. Must be something different from the walls vs ceiling which i have added insulation.

Audyssey sets the atmos at 60hz and sides/rears at 80hz.
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post #14985 of 15252 Old 05-08-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Rex, with the off axis capability of the Revel brand, would not the C763s be wonderful for an atmos setup? Just thinking about the $1000 price jump when comparing to the C763Ls. I do like the idea of not necessarily having to build boxes for these speakers.


Are there other benefits to the C763Ls I am not looking at?




John

Rex, I just spoke with the local Revel guy and he said the C763s have aimable tweeters. The C763L is typically used for LCR or main speakers on a totally in ceiling system. The dispersion on the C763L would make it difficult to aim at MLP in an Atmos setup. It can be done but they would need to be spaced on a larger footprint. Is this correct information? With that in mind, it seems they may actually detract from the Atmos experience.


John
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post #14986 of 15252 Old 05-08-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Rex, I just spoke with the local Revel guy and he said the C763s have aimable tweeters. The C763L is typically used for LCR or main speakers on a totally in ceiling system. The dispersion on the C763L would make it difficult to aim at MLP in an Atmos setup. It can be done but they would need to be spaced on a larger footprint. Is this correct information? With that in mind, it seems they may actually detract from the Atmos experience.
Not sure what he is talking about WRT the C763L. They work perfectly as Atmos speakers. I have four of them. No problem aiming the tweeters.

Read John Schuermann's posts in this thread for more information about using these as Atmos speakers.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-atmos-58.html

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post #14987 of 15252 Old 05-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Rex, I just spoke with the local Revel guy and he said the C763s have aimable tweeters. The C763L is typically used for LCR or main speakers on a totally in ceiling system. The dispersion on the C763L would make it difficult to aim at MLP in an Atmos setup. It can be done but they would need to be spaced on a larger footprint. Is this correct information? With that in mind, it seems they may actually detract from the Atmos experience. John
What you state is not correct information.

Have you looked at both the C763 and the C763L? The C763 has a down firing tweeter in a small wave guide. It can not be aimed at the listening position, it just shoots down at the floor beneath it. The C763L is designed to aim the tweeter/midrange drivers at the listening position. I'm not sure who your local Revel dealer is, but he needs to look at the speakers and get the information correct.

Read through the link kansashoops posted above. John Schuermman writes extensively about the C763L. No mention of the C763.
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post #14988 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 06:19 AM
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Hey all, so I'm in the process of updating my LCR and will be auditioning some Revel speakers next week and I have a few questions before the appointment.

My budget for the upgrade is $5K and I'm upgrading from an Andrew Jones Pioneer 5.0 which has served me really well. I'm really new to Hi Fi speakers so my tastes are still being developed. I'm hoping that I can find speakers that I'll be happy with for the next 20+ years. I don't currently have a sub but that will be added down the road since I'm moving to a loft where a sub may be possible without being a bad neighbor. Use case will be 80% HT 20% music.

I've auditioned some other brands thus far (Paradigm Premier, Klipsch RP, Martin Logan ElectroMotion, Definitive Technology BP, ELAC Debut 2.0 and Uni-Fi Slim) but nothing has really impressed me so I'm hoping I'm in for a treat with Revel.

Now, the only Revel model the dealer has in his shop are the Performa3 F208's but I'm hoping I can still get an accurate feel for the Revel Sound with these.

Now, among Revel's line of speakers I would consider the following for my front stage in no particular order:
1. Performa3 F206 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
2. Performa3 M106 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
3. Concerta2 F36 for LR, Concerta2 C25 for C
4. Performa3 F208's for LR, and wait to get a Performa3 C208 down the line when I have a bigger space
5. PerformaBe M126Be for LR, and wait to get a PerformaBe center down the line

Would auditioning just the F208's still be of use in trying to gauge the performance of the above possible configs? Is their a noticeable difference between these lines as you move up? Since I'll be adding a sub down the road should I just bite the dust and get the higher model PerformaBe bookshelfs or would a Concerta2 or Performa3 tower with a sub still be preferred?

I know this is a really open ended question but thanks in advance for anyone who wants to chime in
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post #14989 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jmor025 View Post
Hey all, so I'm in the process of updating my LCR and will be auditioning some Revel speakers next week and I have a few questions before the appointment.

My budget for the upgrade is $5K and I'm upgrading from an Andrew Jones Pioneer 5.0 which has served me really well. I'm really new to Hi Fi speakers so my tastes are still being developed. I'm hoping that I can find speakers that I'll be happy with for the next 20+ years. I don't currently have a sub but that will be added down the road since I'm moving to a loft where a sub may be possible without being a bad neighbor. Use case will be 80% HT 20% music.

I've auditioned some other brands thus far (Paradigm Premier, Klipsch RP, Martin Logan ElectroMotion, Definitive Technology BP, ELAC Debut 2.0 and Uni-Fi Slim) but nothing has really impressed me so I'm hoping I'm in for a treat with Revel.

Now, the only Revel model the dealer has in his shop are the Performa3 F208's but I'm hoping I can still get an accurate feel for the Revel Sound with these.

Now, among Revel's line of speakers I would consider the following for my front stage in no particular order:
1. Performa3 F206 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
2. Performa3 M106 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
3. Concerta2 F36 for LR, Concerta2 C25 for C
4. Performa3 F208's for LR, and wait to get a Performa3 C208 down the line when I have a bigger space
5. PerformaBe M126Be for LR, and wait to get a PerformaBe center down the line

Would auditioning just the F208's still be of use in trying to gauge the performance of the above possible configs? Is their a noticeable difference between these lines as you move up? Since I'll be adding a sub down the road should I just bite the dust and get the higher model PerformaBe bookshelfs or would a Concerta2 or Performa3 tower with a sub still be preferred?

I know this is a really open ended question but thanks in advance for anyone who wants to chime in

You don't say what you plan to do for rear surrounds and only address the front L/C/R. For your usage (80% HT) I would get the C208 center. You could have a great system with F206's (four would be ideal for front and rear L/R. Add a pair of subs when you can, two is better than one for smooth bass coverage in your room. You can still have enough deep bass by using EQ when you listen at lower volume levels.

Hearing the F208 will tell you what Revel speakers sound like, they are all very similar by design. I prefer floor standing speakers to monitors. That issue been addressed many times in this thread.

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 05-09-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #14990 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 07:21 AM
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You don't say what you plan to do for rear surrounds and only address the front L/C/R. For your usage (80% HT) I would get the C208 center. You could have a great system with F206's (four would be ideal for front and rear L/R. Add a pair of subs when you can, two is better than one for smooth bass coverage in your room. You still have deep bass by using EQ when you listen at lower volume levels.

Hearing the F208 will tell you what Revel speakers sound like, they are all very similar by design. I prefer floor standing speakers to monitors. That issue been addressed many times in this thread.
Thanks for the reply Rex. As far as the rears are concerned, In this scenario I was likely going to opt for Concerta2 M16's on stand as the speakers will be in a shared living space for quite some time until I get a dedicated room.
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post #14991 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Now, among Revel's line of speakers I would consider the following for my front stage in no particular order:
1. Performa3 F206 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
2. Performa3 M106 for LR, Performa3 C205 for C
3. Concerta2 F36 for LR, Concerta2 C25 for C
4. Performa3 F208's for LR, and wait to get a Performa3 C208 down the line when I have a bigger space
5. PerformaBe M126Be for LR, and wait to get a PerformaBe center down the line
Do you have a subwoofer? If so, a good way to go might be M106's with a C208 center. That would give you a nice upgrade path down the road where the M106's become surrounds, and you have F208/206's as mains. That's what I have now, and it sounds fantastic. If you don't have a sub, you'll probably want towers as mains, in which case a pair of F208's with a phantom center might be the way to go. I always prefer to leave myself an upgrade path that allows me to re-purpose existing components, and doesn't require selling something I already have and buying something else, because you almost always lose quite a bit of money doing the upgrade.

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post #14992 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 09:19 AM
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Without a doubt.

Also, remember that pretty much every tweeter-mid crossover will be in the 1.5-3kHz range as well. That's no coincidence. This crossover will always induce a dip in this region in the sound power response. Some companies like Revel, Focal, Kef, etc. put in a lot of time and effort to minimize this dip (especially off-axis where it's less important but still non-trivial.)

Other companies like Dynaudio, Wharfedale, etc. instead just embrace this physical phenomenon and let the dip occur on-axis naturally so that the directivity is well-matched off-axis. This makes the overall response non-flat and slightly v-shaped but it also hides the crossover, requires no waveguide, and makes it easy to control directivity (i.e., the on-axis matches the off-axis even though it's not at all flat through the midrange.)

For people sensitive to that 2-4kHz region, you will need some EQ or find speakers with the "BBC dip" built-in. The "BBC dip" is ultimately a trade-off between midrange detail and naturalness, on the one side, and pleasant longterm fatigue-free listening on the other side. This dip comes with the penalty of accuracy and detail, but to many folks it's worth it, especially if the room and recording are compromised (which most are.)

That's my theory anyway. I personally prefer sins of omission to any false forwardness or detail.

Revel strikes a good balance between the two extremes, in my opinion, but I can see how some people would like something more forward and engaging, while others would prefer something more relaxing and laid-back.

I lean in the neutral/warm camp and Revel to my ears, so far, sound pretty much dead-neutral and my initial impressions are very positive. It's too soon to make any judgements about the possibility of long-term fatigue setting in. I'll give them a month or so to break-in before I blind-test them with my Dyns and Kefs.
i think you just explained to me why i like WD.....

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Originally Posted by kansashoops View Post
Do you have a subwoofer? If so, a good way to go might be M106's with a C208 center. That would give you a nice upgrade path down the road where the M106's become surrounds, and you have F208/206's as mains. That's what I have now, and it sounds fantastic. If you don't have a sub, you'll probably want towers as mains, in which case a pair of F208's with a phantom center might be the way to go. I always prefer to leave myself an upgrade path that allows me to re-purpose existing components, and doesn't require selling something I already have and buying something else, because you almost always lose quite a bit of money doing the upgrade.
No subs yet but I will be getting dual subs in the future once I have a house / dedicated room.
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post #14994 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 10:14 AM
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No subs yet but I will be getting dual subs in the future once I have a house / dedicated room.
In that case, I would rule out using bookshelves as fronts, since you said you were shooting for 80/20 HT/music. The M106s are down 3db at 59 hz, vs 42 hz for the F206 and 31 for the F208. The M106s would be terrific HT mains if paired with a sub, but without one you are going to be starved for bass. In my upstairs system, I use a pair of KEF R300s (-3db at 50 hz) with no center and no sub. It sounds terrific for music, but it is decidedly underwhelming for watching action movies.

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In that case, I would rule out using bookshelves as fronts, since you said you were shooting for 80/20 HT/music. The M106s are down 3db at 59 hz, vs 42 hz for the F206 and 31 for the F208. The M106s would be terrific HT mains if paired with a sub, but without one you are going to be starved for bass. In my upstairs system, I use a pair of KEF R300s (-3db at 50 hz) with no center and no sub. It sounds terrific for music, but it is decidedly underwhelming for watching action movies.
Thanks so much for the input. I'll focus on towers moving forward.
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post #14996 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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Thanks so much for the input. I'll focus on towers moving forward.

Good plan. Even the diehard guy who swore bookshelf monitors were fine with subs finally admitted there was enough evidence that floor standing 3 way speakers offered a significant advantage. The debate raged on for quite a while not too long ago. You might want to go back and find the posts, there was a lot of good information presented.
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post #14997 of 15252 Old 05-09-2019, 10:53 AM
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Well, I never really got a satisfactory answer on the C25's capabilities. It seems like it would probably be suited for a small room. I've read at least one review that stated the C25needed crossed over at 100hz to avoid a gap before the sub took over based on their in-room measurements. I imagine that problem would be exacerbated in a larger room. Stepping up to the Performa line would put me well out of my budget. I find it odd and personally frustrating that Revel doesn't offer a larger CC in the Concerta line. Either a dual 6.5" and/or something ported (potentially front ported). Specifically I have my subs located in four separate locations in my room to optimize FR. I also set 12' from my CC. The idea of crossing over at 100hz and the likely output limitations of such a small CC doesn't really give me many options. Its definitely frustrating.

I don't know if anyone from Revel checks into this thread but a C26 or similar might expand the market for this lineup.

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post #14998 of 15252 Old 05-10-2019, 06:18 AM
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Sorry if already posted, but I'm behind on my reading... The May 2019 issue of Stereophile has a follow-up from Jim Austin on the Salon2's. They are still holding their own... As he says, "Science works". I did not see it online (maybe later).
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post #14999 of 15252 Old 05-10-2019, 08:24 AM
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Sorry if already posted, but I'm behind on my reading... The May 2019 issue of Stereophile has a follow-up from Jim Austin on the Salon2's. They are still holding their own... As he says, "Science works". I did not see it online (maybe later).
Its online, added to the original Salon 2 review:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ustin-may-2019
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post #15000 of 15252 Old 05-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Its online, added to the original Salon 2 review:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ustin-may-2019
Ah, duh, did not think to look at the original review, thanks!

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