Revel Owners Thread - Page 528 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15811 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Then it's wrapped into the sale price, ain't it?


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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
That just means the cost is built into the price and we as consuers are (potentially) getting 'less speaker' for that money - we're paying for the shipping one way or another. Kind off like with SVS' 'free shipping both ways', they have the potential costs built into their pricing model.

Yeah actually you guys are right.

I read it wrong thinking final price was per the consumer from dealer price, not the total cost all the way from Harman.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #15812 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Then it's wrapped into the sale price, ain't it?
What can be avoided it shipping to a dealer then the customer by drop-shipping directly from the manufacturer, even those that do not sell direct.
@gsr and I have some experience with that.

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post #15813 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 09:28 AM
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Like I said to one of the posters who sent me a PM about this, which deal would you rather go with?


1) $2800 with "free" shipping
2) $2100 + $600 shipping


Regardless of whether the "free" shipping is part of a dealer incentive program (due to volume sales discounts, end of year promotions, or whatever) or something the dealer offers, the bottom line is that the shipping ultimately costs something and that cost gets worked into the final price one way or another. The total amount you're handing over to the dealer, factoring in the discount off of MSRP and any shipping fees, is what matters. So personally, I would go with option 2.
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post #15814 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Like I said to one of the posters who sent me a PM about this, which deal would you rather go with?


1) $2800 with "free" shipping
2) $2100 + $600 shipping


Regardless of whether the "free" shipping is part of a dealer incentive program (due to volume sales discounts, end of year promotions, or whatever) or something the dealer offers, the bottom line is that the shipping ultimately costs something and that cost gets worked into the final price one way or another. The total amount you're handing over to the dealer, factoring in the discount off of MSRP and any shipping fees, is what matters. So personally, I would go with option 2.
And if there is tax, option 2 is even better?
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post #15815 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
And if there is tax, option 2 is even better?
Base price + shipping + tax = total cost.
This is an epiphany

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post #15816 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 11:01 AM
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I was just trying to point out that shipping, in some cases, is not a cost to reseller.

Its like when you buy a car. There is cost to get the product off the boat then there is cost to get the car off the car carrier at the dealer.

So in some cases, though rare, when a dealer quotes S&H it is just a pad.

The bottom line is the bottom line. What did you pay to the land the product in your driveway?

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post #15817 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
What can be avoided it shipping to a dealer then the customer by drop-shipping directly from the manufacturer, even those that do not sell direct.
This^
The fact that Revel requires shipping to the dealer first is just retarded and a waste of money. Not to mention one is 2x more likely to incur damage with double shipping.
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post #15818 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
This^
The fact that Revel requires shipping to the dealer first is just retarded and a waste of money. Not to mention one is 2x more likely to incur damage with double shipping.

Revel requires shipping to a dealer first?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #15819 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 01:40 PM
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Revel does not require shipping to the dealer first. All Harman orders ship directly to the customer and there is no charge if the order is over a certain threshold.

I don't know how it works internally for Harman to pay for shipping above a certain cost. The cost of the products remains the same, there is no "built in cost for shipping". If the order threshold is not met, there is shipping cost. A dealer may choose to "build in" the cost to the client, or simply be up front about the cost of the product and charge exactly what it costs to ship from the warehouse to the customer's home. Dealers can't afford to eat shipping costs. I think it's very generous of Harman to offer free shipping when the order meets the threshold.
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post #15820 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Revel does not require shipping to the dealer first. All Harman orders ship directly to the customer and there is no charge if the order is over a certain threshold.
Rex - Harman will not ship outside a dealers sales territory directly to the customer as it's frowned upon to cross another dealers area. This has been Harman's policy with their dealers for many years. Not sure where you are getting your information from but yes, if it's within your territory, they will drop ship to your customer if asked.

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post #15821 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Odd, that is not what I was told. My M2's came direct from Harman but the 228be went to the dealer first.
Makes sense since M2 comes from the pro side. They will make the exception. Not Revel or their luxury division.

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post #15822 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Rex - Harman will not ship outside a dealers sales territory directly to the customer as it's frowned upon to cross another dealers area. This has been Harman's policy with their dealers for many years. Not sure where you are getting your information from but yes, if it's within your territory, they will drop ship to your customer if asked.

Ahh, once again I stand corrected. Sorry for the confusion.
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post #15823 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
That is what I thought as well. My 3677, 4722's and SCS8 also shipped direct all of which are on the pro side of the house. Revel anticipates a more traditional brick and mortar environment where the customer auditions, pays. and carries. Revel should still get out of the dark ages and do direct shipping so dealers aren't forced to carry excessive inventory. In the Amazon world of things, it is becoming common place. I know your just following the rules - no harm no foul.
Only issue with Harman shipping direct is eventually they'll just cut out the dealer. Not good for us.

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post #15824 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Revel does not require shipping to the dealer first. All Harman orders ship directly to the customer and there is no charge if the order is over a certain threshold.

I don't know how it works internally for Harman to pay for shipping above a certain cost. The cost of the products remains the same, there is no "built in cost for shipping". If the order threshold is not met, there is shipping cost. A dealer may choose to "build in" the cost to the client, or simply be up front about the cost of the product and charge exactly what it costs to ship from the warehouse to the customer's home. Dealers can't afford to eat shipping costs. I think it's very generous of Harman to offer free shipping when the order meets the threshold.
All my Ultima2s were ordered at once from my dealer and all were shipped directly to me from Revel.
It was wonderful.

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post #15825 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 05:27 PM
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Same here -- my last set of Salon2's were drop-shipped straight to my house. There were blems, however, so maybe that was the difference? But I'm pretty sure for the other new ones I have ordered John said I had the option of getting them shipped to his place or mine.

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post #15826 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 09:22 PM
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My Revels drop shipped from Revel directly.
Love it
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post #15827 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 09:40 PM
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Sorry for the OT but, I'm curious.
I bought a ton of the RCA & Mercury SACDs when they were cheap as chips.

Given some limitations in the recording gear, they are truly beautiful & for me, capture the essence of a live recording.

I never gave a thought that they were originally released on LP, that the original 3-channel recordings were unavailable.

Did people listen via tape?
Or with the SACDs was this the 1st time that consumers were able to hear them in the original format.

I have a bunch of Nate King Cole stuff and some of them were 3-channel I recall.

I love those 3-channel recordings all round.

 
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post #15828 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 10:05 PM
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I’m wondering if my purchase experiences contradict your conclusion; all 7 of my Ultima2’s were drop shipped to my home which is less than 30 miles from a dealer, though I purchased them from a different dealer who is located more than 1,000 miles from my home.
If the local dealer was aware of it and reported it to Harman, that dealer 1000 miles away would be in jeopardy of losing their dealership. I understand it happens but it's not supposed to happen. The practice creates bit of a turf war. I suppose some Harman regional reps will turn a blind eye to it but if a dealer complains, it becomes a serious issue.

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post #15829 of 16435 Old 09-17-2019, 11:29 PM
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So I have some M126Be's on the way. Is there a Revel stand like the other Performas? It doesn't look like it so what are other recommended options?
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post #15830 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 05:35 AM
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So I have some M126Be's on the way. Is there a Revel stand like the other Performas? It doesn't look like it so what are other recommended options?

I would assume the Performa M stands would work for the Be series.


https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265MST...ano-Black.html


https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265MST...ano-White.html
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post #15831 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post
If the local dealer was aware of it and reported it to Harman, that dealer 1000 miles away would be in jeopardy of losing their dealership. I understand it happens but it's not supposed to happen. The practice creates bit of a turf war. I suppose some Harman regional reps will turn a blind eye to it but if a dealer complains, it becomes a serious issue.
I get the part about dealership protection and this practice is done in other types of sales as well (such as higher end cars), but what about when the local dealers absolutely stink? That's pretty much the situation I'm in where the local dealers are either really good but don't carry brands I'm interested in (such as Goodwins High End in Waltham, MA) or make the stereotypical used care salesman look like a saint. There are several local dealers I will never do business with again after bad experiences. Without the option to buy from another dealer, there are some brands I would never purchase due to this. Another problem is that many local dealers don't have the model you might be interested in available for audition and have likely never even auditioned the specific model you're interested in - we see people posting about those issues ALL the time. Why should that local dealer get the benefit of the sale when they aren't offering the value the local brick and mortar store supposedly provides while folks like John, Rex, and others provide tons of assistance on the forums, on the phone, and via email?


That said, we probably shouldn't publicly compare notes on who we bought from and who had orders drop shipped as there's no need to ruffle feathers and get dealers who have provided excellent service in trouble. Plenty of subtle and not so subtle hints have been dropped about doing some investigation to get the best combination of service and price.
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post #15832 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 07:00 AM
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That said, we probably shouldn't publicly compare notes on who we bought from and who had orders drop shipped as there's no need to ruffle feathers and get dealers who have provided excellent service in trouble.

The topic opens up a serious can of worms. If you worked with a dealer who happens to be in a region where the Harman rep is willing to turn a blind eye to crossing territory and drop shipping then consider yourself lucky but publicly revealing your dealer drop ships to you is not doing any favors for your dealer. It's only exposing them.

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post #15833 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 07:31 AM
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Or with the SACDs was this the 1st time that consumers were able to hear them in the original format.
Yup.
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post #15834 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 08:05 AM
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To be clear, I am in my dealer's (John's) area, he is just down the road from home. I have picked stuff up at his place, had stuff delivered from his shop, and drop-shipped to my house, but everything was ordered from my local dealer.

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post #15835 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 08:18 AM
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Warning: LONG POST

I'm a Harman/Revel dealer and do work all over the country, even internationally. 13 years and I have built a great referral and client base. If I get a referral or request out of my market, I'm not passing that on to another dealer. Why would I? Why would Harman require me to?

Think of the other side of it. True story...

One time, 5 years ago, I passed on - at a manufacturer's request - a referral for a job I had already sold and engineered. The company had at local dealer they wanted to support. This project was for around $23k in BG Radia speakers and then everything else to make it happen. Great project with a full theater and many zones of dist audio.They asked me to pass the project - again, that I was referred to do, engineered and sold (client asked for invoice to pay) - to their local dealer in Houston because it was in his market. I did so. I called to follow up 4 months later on how the home owner liked BG. Whelp... the local guy sold him a grossly inferior product, Episode, instead. The dealer did this because he made way more $$$$ doing so. I called BG and told them of this and they were astonished and upset. I told them I would never pass on another referral and they agreed and allowed me to work out of market and drop ship.

I appreciate that Harman will drop ship for me. It saves a ton on freight and hauling stuff around. It also allows me to work referral business off of my work and reputation with my clients. That is much much different than having a static website with a shopping cart, etc. which snipes deals from local guys.

I really don't care if people sell into my market the same way, either. My job is my job to do. That dealer's job is theirs to do. I am not helping them feed their family, and vice versa. If one of us does it better, so be it. I'm not going to cry over it. I'll just work to do better. Likewise, if I run my business well enough, buy enough, etc. to offer a better price... why wouldn't I leverage that to do so? That is business.

^ A dealer reaching out of market to cultivate a following/referral base, grow it, and work should be celebrated in our industry and not looked upon like a website would be. That is a lot different than having a website with a shopping cart and requires effort and time. I don't PM guys on here sniffing for sales, but guys have reached out to me and I help if I can - very very little of my business comes from that. I don't PM people first unless they ask a specific question and I do 't want to derail their thread topic. Because PMing first, to me, would make my posts and advice disingenuous as then I would only be posting to sell, but under the guise of advising - wolf in sheeps clothing, so to speak. Prestige Audio isn't even the name of my business, nor is my name on here anywhere to advertise. If I can help guys, I do it. A lot if sharks on these forums swimming around trying to be friendly, but are really just looking to get a bite.

It's 2019 and I appreciate Harman working with dealers on freight. My job is to find a client, help them honestly with the best pricing I can, and then keep them for life... or don't... and risk losing them to another company or brand. That is business in 2019. The world has shrunk and thus, territories have shrunk.

^ Sorry for the novel.
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post #15836 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 01:14 PM
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usually what I see happen is local dealers do so well, the higher ups bring in a second dealer close by or the dealer sucks and gets shut down and higher brings in another dealer or says screw this market.

I dont see dealer ever winning to be honest, unless they have the market no matter what company they sell.

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post #15837 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
If the local dealer was aware of it and reported it to Harman, that dealer 1000 miles away would be in jeopardy of losing their dealership. I understand it happens but it's not supposed to happen. The practice creates bit of a turf war. I suppose some Harman regional reps will turn a blind eye to it but if a dealer complains, it becomes a serious issue.
If I audition products at a dealer, then I that dealer deserves my business.
I prefer to select a dealer for which I have a repour and not one that happens to be geographically closest.

I suppose you could make trouble but in the end, the world is changing so dealer complaints may not produce the desired outcome.

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post #15838 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
If I audition products at a dealer, then I that dealer deserves my business.
I prefer to select a dealer for which I have a repour and not one that happens to be geographically closest.

I suppose you could make trouble but in the end, the world is changing so dealer complaints may not produce the desired outcome.

- Rich
Rich - of course you should shop with anyone you are comfortable with. However, that doesn't mean Harman is required to drop ship on behalf of the dealer to another reps region. That was the point of the original post (drop shipping across territory). If with the dealer can work something out with the shipping, that's great. Win for everyone.

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post #15839 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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So do you buy where you listen or from the dealer you have a relationship with assuming they are not the same.

At the end of the day Dealer A does say $15,000/yr (that is usually the threshold to keep someone on the books) and Dealer B does $250,000/yr then there is a more than probable chance the complaints of Dealer A will hit the circular file.

Now if you flip the script the story changes big time.
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post #15840 of 16435 Old 09-18-2019, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Rich - of course you should shop with anyone you are comfortable with. However, that doesn't mean Harman is required to drop ship on behalf of the dealer to another reps region. That was the point of the original post (drop shipping across territory). If with the dealer can work something out with the shipping, that's great. Win for everyone.
Revel has less dealers than B&W so I don't think you are barking up the right tree.
Dealers should focus customers not other dealers.

- Rich
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