Revel Owners Thread - Page 573 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17161 of 17347 Old 02-14-2020, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Yes, it is a very bright/live room, which is why I want to do everything possible to eliminate echo. I was going to buy acoustic foam to place above my kitchen cabinets, but you and Rex said that wouldn't be much help. I am going to get a 9x12 area rug for the living room and I'll get as many GIK Acoustics panels within reason (they have to look good in the room).

I ran all the cables to the only place in the room where a TV would work (77" OLED), so re-orienting the room is not possible. I will put my couch a few feet in front of the banister so that my surround towers have space to breathe (they will be about 12' apart and I centered the Atmos speakers between them). I also want to center my seat on the couch between the front and rear Atmos speakers as best as possible.

I put boxes 10' apart approximately where my front towers will go in the room (see pics). The Atmos speakers (c763l's) are 8' apart. There will be at least 3 feet between the left tower and the window wall (yes I'm getting window treatments, which will help with reflections).
Hey, we all have to live with the space we've got. I'm betting Floyd's system sounds decent despite that lousy room of his.

I don't have direct experience with GiK but will note that many manufacturers offer panels in a variety of colors and some will put pictures (yours or theirs) on the panels to make them more aesthetic. A few years ago I helped a church treat their sanctuary with panels from Kinetics Noise Control and we used different colors and shapes to hide or emphasize as appropriate. I have had poor experience with foam panels so do tend to avoid them.

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I have been helping Mr. blSwagger via emails. Not really a surprise, but you and I had the exact same suggestions, lol.
Great minds! Oh, wait... Glad to see (read) you are helping him out, Rex.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #17162 of 17347 Old 02-14-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Hey, we all have to live with the space we've got. I'm betting Floyd's system sounds decent despite that lousy room of his.

I don't have direct experience with GiK but will note that many manufacturers offer panels in a variety of colors and some will put pictures (yours or theirs) on the panels to make them more aesthetic. A few years ago I helped a church treat their sanctuary with panels from Kinetics Noise Control and we used different colors and shapes to hide or emphasize as appropriate. I have had poor experience with foam panels so do tend to avoid them. Great minds! Oh, wait... Glad to see (read) you are helping him out, Rex.

Yeah, Floyd's system sounds "OK", lol.
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post #17163 of 17347 Old 02-14-2020, 04:24 PM
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A note about GIK in my room... This is to the guys following this thread ( speculatively near 100% ). GIK let's you choose fabric. Asking your significant other to do that selection can have a very high SAF.


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post #17164 of 17347 Old 02-14-2020, 09:25 PM
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get some hunter douglas luminette blinds....thats what I use and the are awesome...ofc they will cost same as your speakers...https://www.hunterdouglas.com/luminette

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post #17165 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
get some hunter douglas luminette blinds....thats what I use and the are awesome...ofc they will cost same as your speakers...https://www.hunterdouglas.com/luminette

I like the Silhouette Duolite. Light filtering to allow light while maintaining privacy and a separate blackout shade if I want to watch TV during a bright day. We'll probably get EverWood blinds with a cut-out for above the kitchen sink. There's only 1 1/8" between the window handle and faucet, so I'm thrilled that Hunter Douglas has a solution for that!
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post #17166 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Yes Steven, it is the Revel Owners Thread.
Do you own Revel speakers or are currently in the market for them?

Look no one looks down on you or cares what speaker you bought.
Members here gave you a lot of support with your issues.

Also a fact that I do not remember anyone having the issue(s) that you had.
So Salon2s didn't work out for you.
Good thing there are a ton of other companies & you could find a speaker that satisfied you.
Why come back and mock satisfied owners & people asking honest questions & expressing honest opinions?

I've never had the feeling that this thread claims anything but they're satisfaction without disdain.
We've had the invaluable contributions of Dr. Toole.
No one ever mentions this but along with other Harman International employees, they've never been driven off the forum.
Says everything to me.
Bro, humor.

I guess after owning the f52, salon, and salon 2 I feel like I can poke my head in here on rain days to see whats new otherwise how would I know if i'm currently in the market for a new revel. I probably had 5 class A or b speakers went thru my listening room since deciding to upgrade my 25 year old kef r 105/3's and if I learned anything it's that speakers especially the more transparent take a lot of care with placement, components, room size and surprisingly to me different speakers would change the tracks I would listen to as each speaker had different strengths.

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post #17167 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
I like the Silhouette Duolite. Light filtering to allow light while maintaining privacy and a separate blackout shade if I want to watch TV during a bright day. We'll probably get EverWood blinds with a cut-out for above the kitchen sink. There's only 1 1/8" between the window handle and faucet, so I'm thrilled that Hunter Douglas has a solution for that!
Interesting to find such great drapery advice in this forum! Have you tried Carl's Draperies? I highly recommend him. Call the number for some free advice!
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Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 - Revel F226Be's, C205, M126Be's - Rythmik F12SE - Revel C763L's
Marantz 8805 - McIntosh MC275 (L&R), McIntosh MC8207 (everything else)
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post #17168 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 03:27 PM
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A note about GIK in my room... This is to the guys following this thread ( speculatively near 100% ). GIK let's you choose fabric. Asking your significant other to do that selection can have a very high SAF.


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This is what I did for my back wall.
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post #17169 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 03:42 PM
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^^^

Carlos and Freddie

I got the Lowe’s house brand (made by Hunter Douglas iirc). They work great.

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post #17170 of 17347 Old 02-15-2020, 10:28 PM
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Anyone here have Revel B10 sub and use Denon Audyssey X32 calibration? I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my receiver. Calibration sets the bass levels really low, barely audible. In the beginning of the test, I allow the bass level to be around 78-79 (despite it wanting 75), which means gain level is around 7 oclock, quite low. After calibration, sub levels are -9. You literally can't hear the bass at all. What I found that seems to work fairly well is to increase gain to 12 oclock and increase level to -5. This seems rather substantial of an increase, so I'm wondering if this is normal to need to increase so much?

There may be something actually wrong with the receiver though. Audyssey only lets me do 3 positions. If I do 4 positions then it crashes at the end (just gets stuck at some random % and never progresses). I'm past the warranty period, so I guess I'm stuck with it.

I also have F36 towers which Audyssey sets to Large and crossover at 40. I changed it to Small and crossover at 80 and changed bass mode to LFE+Main which makes some difference
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post #17171 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mzaur View Post
Anyone here have Revel B10 sub and use Denon Audyssey X32 calibration? I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my receiver. Calibration sets the bass levels really low, barely audible. In the beginning of the test, I allow the bass level to be around 78-79 (despite it wanting 75), which means gain level is around 7 oclock, quite low. After calibration, sub levels are -9. You literally can't hear the bass at all. What I found that seems to work fairly well is to increase gain to 12 oclock and increase level to -5. This seems rather substantial of an increase, so I'm wondering if this is normal to need to increase so much?

There may be something actually wrong with the receiver though. Audyssey only lets me do 3 positions. If I do 4 positions then it crashes at the end (just gets stuck at some random % and never progresses). I'm past the warranty period, so I guess I'm stuck with it.

I also have F36 towers which Audyssey sets to Large and crossover at 40. I changed it to Small and crossover at 80 and changed bass mode to LFE+Main which makes some difference
Sounds like Audysey is setting you awfully low. I think there are two options:

1) Do as you already have and simply increase sub level to taste by ear with sub gain and AVR trim

2) If you don't have an SPL meter, download the Niosh app if you have an iPhone. Play pink noise through one of your speakers at around 75 dB, then do the same with sub to get around 80 dB. This will ensure you are pretty close and can still adjust to taste.

Time for an AVR upgrade soon or still fairly new? I'd also consider adding a second sub for improved response an sound quality.
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post #17172 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 06:34 AM
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Anyone here have Revel B10 sub and use Denon Audyssey X32 calibration? I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my receiver. Calibration sets the bass levels really low, barely audible. In the beginning of the test, I allow the bass level to be around 78-79 (despite it wanting 75), which means gain level is around 7 oclock, quite low. After calibration, sub levels are -9. You literally can't hear the bass at all. What I found that seems to work fairly well is to increase gain to 12 oclock and increase level to -5. This seems rather substantial of an increase, so I'm wondering if this is normal to need to increase so much?

There may be something actually wrong with the receiver though. Audyssey only lets me do 3 positions. If I do 4 positions then it crashes at the end (just gets stuck at some random % and never progresses). I'm past the warranty period, so I guess I'm stuck with it.

I also have F36 towers which Audyssey sets to Large and crossover at 40. I changed it to Small and crossover at 80 and changed bass mode to LFE+Main which makes some difference
There may indeed be something wrong but even if there isn't you don't need to view Audyssey as infallible. Think of it as a starting point, from which you then tweak for taste (sub level) or taste/something that Audyssey perhaps got wrong (F36 crossover).
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post #17173 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:15 AM
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The Atmos speakers (c763l's) are 8' apart. There will be at least 3 feet between the left tower and the window wall (yes I'm getting window treatments, which will help with reflections).
The Atmos speakers, are they 8 feet apart front to back or left to right, or both? I’m planning out my future system.
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post #17174 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:23 AM
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The Atmos speakers (c763l's) are 8' apart. There will be at least 3 feet between the left tower and the window wall (yes I'm getting window treatments, which will help with reflections).
The Atmos speakers, are they 8 feet apart front to back or left to right, or both? I’️m planning out my future system.
8’ front to back and side to side. I didn’t have room to spread them farther apart, but I’m happy how it turned out.
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post #17175 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:28 AM
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I also have F36 towers which Audyssey sets to Large and crossover at 40. I changed it to Small and crossover at 80 and changed bass mode to LFE+Main which makes some difference
You should set the bass mode to LFE only and let your F36’s roll off at 24db. No need to send full power to your towers if you’re crossing them to a sub.
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post #17176 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:44 AM
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get some hunter douglas luminette blinds....thats what I use and the are awesome...ofc they will cost same as your speakers...https://www.hunterdouglas.com/luminette
Those look nice. Did you find that those absorbed some? I’m going to have one side wall that will be a lot of window, and sliding glass door behind that. I was thinking I’d need something thicker for the drapes for real absorption(I realize I also don’t want to go too far to deaden it). The other wall I was planning GIK panels at the first reflection point.

Behind my living room is the dining area, which will be 28 feet from the TV wall. Do you think I’ll still need to consider GIK panels that far back? The living room area will be carpeted, the dining and kitchen will be hardwood.
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post #17177 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:53 AM
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Those look nice. Did you find that those absorbed some? I’m going to have one side wall that will be a lot of window, and sliding glass door behind that. I was thinking I’d need something thicker for the drapes for real absorption(I realize I also don’t want to go too far to deaden it). The other wall I was planning GIK panels at the first reflection point.

Behind my living room is the dining area, which will be 28 feet from the TV wall. Do you think I’ll still need to consider GIK panels that far back? The living room area will be carpeted, the dining and kitchen will be hardwood.

my entire side of room is windows and yes when the blinds are closed with the added sheer helps alot. I also have a recliner at 1st reflection point which also helps alot. I keep my blinds closed more for eliminating light hitting my tv tho. also the style element is 2nd to none imo...so the blinds check all the boxes for me.


also you could adjust the angle of blinds for endless tweaking.
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post #17178 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
8’ front to back and side to side. I didn’t have room to spread them farther apart, but I’m happy how it turned out.
So, you would have gone further apart? Looking at Dolby’s diagram for 5.1.4 it appears they recommend Atmos a bit inside of the front left and right speakers. I’m thinking I’ll have mine 9 feet apart, which means the Atmos 8 feet apart left to right would be perfect. And 4 feet in front and 4 feet behind sounds right as well. How high is your ceiling?
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post #17179 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 02:12 PM
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Sounds like Audysey is setting you awfully low. I think there are two options:

1) Do as you already have and simply increase sub level to taste by ear with sub gain and AVR trim

2) If you don't have an SPL meter, download the Niosh app if you have an iPhone. Play pink noise through one of your speakers at around 75 dB, then do the same with sub to get around 80 dB. This will ensure you are pretty close and can still adjust to taste.

Time for an AVR upgrade soon or still fairly new? I'd also consider adding a second sub for improved response an sound quality.
Thanks! I do not have SPL meter so I'll check out the Niosh app. The issue with the Denon receiver (X3300W) is that when I go to adjust levels menu where it plays tones, the test tone from the sub is super super quiet. It's normal through the other speakers, but if I were to just go by that tone level, i'd be setting it all the way up to hear the bass. So I'm not sure what's the best way to get the receiver to play noise? If I start Audyssey setup, then it plays noise through the sub just fine. It's just the levels menu with test tone where the tone produced for the sub is quiet. Actual content also plays fine too. Just something is off with my Denon receiver it seems...

I do have latest firmware on this receiver. Maybe it's time to upgrade... I got this receiver 3 years ago. It's been great, but in my current setup I need very good room correction. I'm not a professional myself, and the room is less than ideal. it's 5.1.2 but the positioning of everything isn't exactly reference due to limitations in the room. The sub is actually behind the right tower speaker in a cubby, and there's no space really for a second sub. I'll attach some photos to give you some idea. I'm pretty limited. I'm debating upgrading to an Anthem receiver since I heard they have pretty good room correction, just very pricey. But I realize room correction can't fix bad placement.


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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
There may indeed be something wrong but even if there isn't you don't need to view Audyssey as infallible. Think of it as a starting point, from which you then tweak for taste (sub level) or taste/something that Audyssey perhaps got wrong (F36 crossover).
Thanks!

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You should set the bass mode to LFE only and let your F36’s roll off at 24db. No need to send full power to your towers if you’re crossing them to a sub.
Really? I noticed in LFE only mode that there's very little bass at all, especially with music.
I did read that LFE+MAIN setting only applies when front speakers are set to large. I set the towers to small since that seems to be the recommendation I'm reading everywhere on this forum, to let the sub do the work it was designed for. Since I set towers to small with crossover at 80, does it make any difference to set to LFE only?

Thanks!


For anyone curious, I have F36, C25, C763L, S206, and B10
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post #17180 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 02:31 PM
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Thanks! I do not have SPL meter so I'll check out the Niosh app. The issue with the Denon receiver (X3300W) is that when I go to adjust levels menu where it plays tones, the test tone from the sub is super super quiet. It's normal through the other speakers, but if I were to just go by that tone level, i'd be setting it all the way up to hear the bass. So I'm not sure what's the best way to get the receiver to play noise? If I start Audyssey setup, then it plays noise through the sub just fine. It's just the levels menu with test tone where the tone produced for the sub is quiet.

I do have latest firmware on this receiver. Maybe it's time to upgrade... I got this receiver 3 years ago. It's been great, but in my current setup I need very good room correction. I'm not a professional myself, and the room is less than ideal. it's 5.1.2 but the positioning of everything isn't exactly reference due to limitations in the room. The sub is actually behind the right tower speaker in a cubby, and there's no space really for a second sub. I'll attach some photos to give you some idea. I'm pretty limited. I'm debating upgrading to an Anthem receiver since I heard they have pretty good room correction, just very pricey.

Thanks! Really? I noticed in LFE only mode that there's very little bass at all, especially with music.
I did read that LFE+MAIN setting only applies when front speakers are set to large. I set the towers to small since that seems to be the recommendation I'm reading everywhere on this forum, to let the sub do the work it was designed for. Since I set towers to small with crossover at 80, does it make any difference to set to LFE only? Thanks!

Another room that had great potential for audio/video/home theater ruined by a fireplace. Sorry, it looks very nice and you did a great job all things considered. However, if it was my house, I would have taken out the fireplace and put the TV and front LCR speakers on that wall. When I was looking for a house last year, I had to pass on many that had great potential that was ruined by fireplaces as the focal point of the living rooms.

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 02-16-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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post #17181 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 02:40 PM
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Another room that had great potential for audio/video/home theater ruined by a fireplace. Sorry, it looks very nice and you did a great job all things considered. However, if it was my house, I would have taken out the fireplace and put the TV and front LCR speakers on that wall. When I was looking for a house last year, I had to pass on many that had great potential that was ruined by fireplaces as the focal point of the living rooms.
Actually I really love that wood stove, use it all the time, so there's no way I'm going to get rid of it. It's very cozy in the winter. I do wish the house had a better space for home theater, but this is it. Otherwise really love the house and just trying to make it work best given the limitations. The house was built in 1981. Even new homes really lack a good home theater space. I thought about building at some point, but maybe in the future.

I got these speakers from you guys actually. I emailed John, so maybe he will pop in at some point to comment.
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post #17182 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
8’️ front to back and side to side. I didn’️t have room to spread them farther apart, but I’️m happy how it turned out.
So, you would have gone further apart? Looking at Dolby’️s diagram for 5.1.4 it appears they recommend Atmos a bit inside of the front left and right speakers. I’️m thinking I’️ll have mine 9 feet apart, which means the Atmos 8 feet apart left to right would be perfect. And 4 feet in front and 4 feet behind sounds right as well. How high is your ceiling?
I’m very happy with the 8’ square pattern. Considering my joists in the attic run from front to back, I would have had to spread the speakers another 32” apart to keep everything centered. I happened to luck out the way my contractor framed the room. He even used a sawzall to carve out extra space for my left rear Atmos speaker. Additionally, my left Atmos speakers have only about 7-10” between the ceiling and roof.

I’m going to sit about 3’ in front of the rear Atmos. This is not ideal, but that’s just how my room is. The c763l’s are perfect because all 4 can be angled towards the MLP.

I’m away this week and I have to build two pinewood derby cars next week when I get back. Then I can finally set everything up! I also have to order an area rug and acoustic panels.
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post #17183 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mzaur View Post
Thanks! I do not have SPL meter so I'll check out the Niosh app. The issue with the Denon receiver (X3300W) is that when I go to adjust levels menu where it plays tones, the test tone from the sub is super super quiet. It's normal through the other speakers, but if I were to just go by that tone level, i'd be setting it all the way up to hear the bass. So I'm not sure what's the best way to get the receiver to play noise? If I start Audyssey setup, then it plays noise through the sub just fine. It's just the levels menu with test tone where the tone produced for the sub is quiet. Actual content also plays fine too. Just something is off with my Denon receiver it seems...

I do have latest firmware on this receiver. Maybe it's time to upgrade... I got this receiver 3 years ago. It's been great, but in my current setup I need very good room correction. I'm not a professional myself, and the room is less than ideal. it's 5.1.2 but the positioning of everything isn't exactly reference due to limitations in the room. The sub is actually behind the right tower speaker in a cubby, and there's no space really for a second sub. I'll attach some photos to give you some idea. I'm pretty limited. I'm debating upgrading to an Anthem receiver since I heard they have pretty good room correction, just very pricey. But I realize room correction can't fix bad placement.




Thanks!



Really? I noticed in LFE only mode that there's very little bass at all, especially with music.
I did read that LFE+MAIN setting only applies when front speakers are set to large. I set the towers to small since that seems to be the recommendation I'm reading everywhere on this forum, to let the sub do the work it was designed for. Since I set towers to small with crossover at 80, does it make any difference to set to LFE only?

Thanks!


For anyone curious, I have F36, C25, C763L, S206, and B10
Looks like you have almost unlimited placement options for a second sub.....I see free space all over the place that would be out of the way.

I guess my biggest concern would be whether or not Audysey is properly eq'ing your sub since the level is so far off. I suppose if the test tones to the sub are correct during calibration, then hopefully it is applying eq properly.
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post #17184 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Looks like you have almost unlimited placement options for a second sub.....I see free space all over the place that would be out of the way.

I guess my biggest concern would be whether or not Audysey is properly eq'ing your sub since the level is so far off. I suppose if the test tones to the sub are correct during calibration, then hopefully it is applying eq properly.
Hmm really? The only place I thought of is to the left of the left tower, which would be in the way. Where do you see free space?

Test tones to the sub during calibration seem OK, but I could use the Niosh app and see. I'll give that a try later this week
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post #17185 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 06:13 PM
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Hmm really? The only place I thought of is to the left of the left tower, which would be in the way. Where do you see free space?

Test tones to the sub during calibration seem OK, but I could use the Niosh app and see. I'll give that a try later this week
All along the wall behind the couch, in either rear corner to either side of the windows. You literally have tons of open space for placement of another sub or two.

I'd spend $100 on Umik-1 and download REW to get placement right(if you get a 2nd sub), let subeqHT do the rest.

I definitely would not put the other sub up front with the mains, this would defeat the purpose of dual subs. Spread them out to smooth response and fix nulls.
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post #17186 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
All along the wall behind the couch, in either rear corner to either side of the windows. You literally have tons of open space for placement of another sub or two.

I'd spend $100 on Umik-1 and download REW to get placement right(if you get a 2nd sub), let subeqHT do the rest.

I definitely would not put the other sub up front with the mains, this would defeat the purpose of dual subs. Spread them out to smooth response and fix nulls.

Ah I see, I thought subs should always be up in front, had no idea you can put them around or behind. Thanks for the tip! Maybe where the left rear surround that could work. I just had all the drywall repaired and the room painted, so likely won't be doing that anytime soon. Thanks for the idea though

I'll look into REW. Thanks! I just don't know how to get the receiver to play tones correctly through the sub. I reset it to factory settings recently which didn't seem to fix anything. In the levels menu where it plays test tones, the sub tone is way too quiet. I need to figure this out before proceeding further.

Thanks!

Last edited by mzaur; 02-16-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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post #17187 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 07:15 PM
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you run the test tones for phase and distance which the avr/computer figures out. afterwards bost the gains on your subs to desired levels. my avr setup for subs has gains below 12 oclock for 75db...I have my sub gains at 2 oclock or so for normal listening. ofc this varies....ymmv...but dont be scared to turn it up from what avr says.
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post #17188 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 08:35 PM
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Another room that had great potential for audio/video/home theater ruined by a fireplace. Sorry, it looks very nice and you did a great job all things considered. However, if it was my house, I would have taken out the fireplace and put the TV and front LCR speakers on that wall. When I was looking for a house last year, I had to pass on many that had great potential that was ruined by fireplaces as the focal point of the living rooms.
Except for some percentage here at AVS Forum, I suspect most people pick a house based on price, location, schools, taxes, etc. It is harder for audio to be at its best though. So... Yeah, wbfp in my family room / home theater, too. It isn't perfect but it's still quite good.

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post #17189 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mzaur View Post
Ah I see, I thought subs should always be up in front, had no idea you can put them around or behind. Thanks for the tip! Maybe where the left rear surround that could work. I just had all the drywall repaired and the room painted, so likely won't be doing that anytime soon. Thanks for the idea though

I'll look into REW. Thanks! I just don't know how to get the receiver to play tones correctly through the sub. I reset it to factory settings recently which didn't seem to fix anything. In the levels menu where it plays test tones, the sub tone is way too quiet. I need to figure this out before proceeding further. Thanks!
Use Google to find the paper by Todd Welti and Alan Devantier: Low Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers.

Also Google Sound Field Management. https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...-multi-sub-sfm

https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...tangular-rooms
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post #17190 of 17347 Old 02-16-2020, 09:51 PM
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@mzaur

I think they look nice and the room looks good too.
One thing I’d do is get the center channel speaker to the front edge and rerun RC.

Might go to the AVR thread for your Denon series and see if you can get help there.

Chris
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Last edited by laserjock II; 02-17-2020 at 05:09 AM.
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