Revel Owners Thread - Page 601 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18001 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
I would recommend anybody struggling with the quality of sound coming from their revel speakers to visit your dealer and try to demo a floor model. When I was considering the f208 (against the f32) the salesman told me then the better the power the better the sound with revel speakers. In my limited experience I agree. I don't want to be a dick but emotiva is a budget product so why buy a premium speaker to go with it? I sold my A21 to an emotiva owner and he couldn't believe the improvement, thats how I felt when I upgraded from the a21.

I made my $22k speaker sound worse than my $4k speaker because I wanted to believe them when they said all amps rated the same sound the same.
Isn't interesting what differences you can hear with the Salon2? I've never regretted buying mine. I love'em.
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post #18002 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
I would recommend anybody struggling with the quality of sound coming from their revel speakers to visit your dealer and try to demo a floor model. When I was considering the f208 (against the f32) the salesman told me then the better the power the better the sound with revel speakers. In my limited experience I agree. I don't want to be a dick but emotiva is a budget product so why buy a premium speaker to go with it? I sold my A21 to an emotiva owner and he couldn't believe the improvement, thats how I felt when I upgraded from the a21.

I made my $22k speaker sound worse than my $4k speaker because I wanted to believe them when they said all amps rated the same sound the same.
Revel has a wide range of speakers in size and cost.

I agree if you have the salons, then pairing it with any current Emotiva amp would be silly but not everyone has the top of the line Revels. We wish we all could get it I’m sure, I know I’d rather have the salons over my F228Be if both cost the same.

Last edited by Lsdec2; 05-20-2020 at 04:09 PM.
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post #18003 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 04:45 PM
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So if you're running 206/208 line, which amps would you run?

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post #18004 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
So if you're running 206/208 line, which amps would you run?

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I'm not sure that my F206s require an external amp for my 8.5' listening distance, assuming one uses a sub.
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post #18005 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
So if you're running 206/208 line, which amps would you run?

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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post59672856
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post #18006 of 18475 Old 05-20-2020, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
So if you're running 206/208 line, which amps would you run?
parasound hint doesn't seem to sweat with f208 though I wish I could try more powerful amp to compare



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post #18007 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
So if you're running 206/208 line, which amps would you run?

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Monoprice Monolith 3 or the Nord Hypex NC500 are the best performing amps for the money that I am aware of. Probably in the 13-$1700 range and match or exceed many amps that are considerably more expensive. Either would supply more clean power than the speakers are rated for. I don't think your AVR has pre-outs though.
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post #18008 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Monoprice Monolith 3 or the Nord Hypex NC500 are the best performing amps for the money that I am aware of. Probably in the 13-$1700 range and match or exceed many amps that are considerably more expensive. Either would supply more clean power than the speakers are rated for. I don't think your AVR has pre-outs though.
My setup in the sig block isn't updated yet. Once I move into my home my c208/f206 + w873 x2 + c763l + SVS SB4000 x 2 setup goes live with my Arcam AVR20

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post #18009 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 06:36 AM
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I'm using a monolith 7x to power my F206, C208, and 4 w763s from an Arcam AVR10. I'm using an older B&K amp to power Atmos 4 C363s all with good results. I'm using PSA subs, S3600 and S3000i.

I was looking at Outlaw, Emotiva, and Monoprice for an external amp. I pulled the trigger on the Monoprice and no regrets.
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post #18010 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
I would recommend anybody struggling with the quality of sound coming from their revel speakers to visit your dealer and try to demo a floor model. When I was considering the f208 (against the f32) the salesman told me then the better the power the better the sound with revel speakers. In my limited experience I agree. I don't want to be a dick but emotiva is a budget product so why buy a premium speaker to go with it? I sold my A21 to an emotiva owner and he couldn't believe the improvement, thats how I felt when I upgraded from the a21.

I made my $22k speaker sound worse than my $4k speaker because I wanted to believe them when they said all amps rated the same sound the same.

If there is a difference outside of your head, one cause may be that Emotiva mis-wires their balanced inputs.
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post #18011 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I have not heard the Triad, but see they are an MTM design and the tweeter doesn't have a waveguide. Specs don't say if it si a two or three way speaker.

The Revel W990 is their top of the line three way in wall speaker. It is very well designed and sounds great. https://www.revelspeakers.com/produc...all/W990-.html

Here are W990 specs:

9” Micro-Ceramic Composite (MCC) Cone, Cast-Aluminum Frame High-Output Woofer
• 1” aluminum dome high-output tweeter with waveguide
• HF level & tilt controls
• LF boundary compensation, & listener axis controls
• Advanced high-order crossover network
• Cast aluminum baffle with multi-point spring loaded clamping mechanism
• Mounting depth: 3.7” (9.4 cm)
• Weight: 17.0 lb (7.7 kg) / Shipping weight: 19.4 lb (8.8 kg)
• Cutout dimensions (H x W): 19.1” x 12.5” (48.6 cm x 31.8 cm)
• Includes zero-bezel magnetic grille
• Grille finished dimension (H x W): 20.6” x 13.9” (52.3 cm x 35.3 cm)
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
• Recommended amplifier power range: 10- 200 watts
• Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 89 dB
• Frequency Range -3 dB from 32Hz-28kHz; -10dB from 23-35kHz
The Triad Silver Series is two-way.

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post #18012 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
If there is a difference outside of your head, one cause may be that Emotiva mis-wires their balanced inputs.
Expound on that, if you would. I was looking at a beefy amp (within reason) for my LCR and leave the Arcam to power the surround and Atmos. Emotiva is on my shortlist, though I've seen a lot of positive press on the ATIs.

I'm a no frills kind of guy, just care about performance.

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post #18013 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
Expound on that, if you would. I was looking at a beefy amp (within reason) for my LCR and leave the Arcam to power the surround and Atmos. Emotiva is on my shortlist, though I've seen a lot of positive press on the ATIs.

I'm a no frills kind of guy, just care about performance.

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The XLR connections on Emo amps are inverted and will be out of phase with other amps.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post58919004

I think you can get around this problem by using RCA's, or by reversing the red and black speaker wires
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post #18014 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meetloaf13 View Post
Expound on that, if you would. I was looking at a beefy amp (within reason) for my LCR and leave the Arcam to power the surround and Atmos. Emotiva is on my shortlist, though I've seen a lot of positive press on the ATIs.

I'm a no frills kind of guy, just care about performance.

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Nord Hypex NC500: of course you'd want their 3 channel, but performance is the same.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...c500-amp.7704/

Monoprice Monolith. Little less power but still plenty and a little cheaper if your ok with a 90 lb spaceheater:
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifie...plifier-review

If you find better amps for anywhere near the price of these, you should get them instead. But I don't think you'll find one. Emo's seem to have some issues up top in measured performance. The Nord/Hypex and Monolith appear to be completely audibly transparent and indistinguishable from any other exceptionally well designed amp.
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post #18015 of 18475 Old 05-21-2020, 05:18 PM
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the problem with this hobby is getting gear that works best with each other. yea anybody can dsp or rew the signals/sound...but that doesnt equate to best for you. not many can order online 5 of each piece of gear and spend months finding out best. I know my maggie speakers need more/lot more than 200w/8ohm amp but maybe thats cause I have heard them in my space with 1000+ watts....now ofc other hand is buy once and leave internet
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post #18016 of 18475 Old 05-22-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I have not heard the Triad, but see they are an MTM design and the tweeter doesn't have a waveguide. Specs don't say if it is a two or three way speaker.

The Revel W990 is their top of the line three way in wall speaker. It is very well designed and sounds great. https://www.revelspeakers.com/produc...all/W990-.html

Here are W990 specs:

9” Micro-Ceramic Composite (MCC) Cone, Cast-Aluminum Frame High-Output Woofer
• 1” aluminum dome high-output tweeter with waveguide
• HF level & tilt controls
• LF boundary compensation, & listener axis controls
• Advanced high-order crossover network
• Cast aluminum baffle with multi-point spring loaded clamping mechanism
• Mounting depth: 3.7” (9.4 cm)
• Weight: 17.0 lb (7.7 kg) / Shipping weight: 19.4 lb (8.8 kg)
• Cutout dimensions (H x W): 19.1” x 12.5” (48.6 cm x 31.8 cm)
• Includes zero-bezel magnetic grille
• Grille finished dimension (H x W): 20.6” x 13.9” (52.3 cm x 35.3 cm)
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
• Recommended amplifier power range: 10- 200 watts
• Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 89 dB
• Frequency Range -3 dB from 32Hz-28kHz; -10dB from 23-35kHz
Looks like a nice speaker but is it OK to use a 3 way speaker as LCR and surround and atmos a 2 way speaker?

Would it still be better to use the W970 as LCR so you have 2 way speakers all around to create that perfect sound bubble?
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post #18017 of 18475 Old 05-22-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
Looks like a nice speaker but is it OK to use a 3 way speaker as LCR and surround and atmos a 2 way speaker?

Would it still be better to use the W970 as LCR so you have 2 way speakers all around to create that perfect sound bubble?
W970 is not in the current price list I have. Not sure what's up with that.

I prefer to use the best speakers for front LCR and I think a three way provides that. I can live with lesser speakers for surrounds and Atmos. As long as you are using all Revel speakers, I doubt you would notice having three ways for front LCR and two way speakers for surrounds and/or Atmos. The only 3 way in ceiling speaker I know of is the C763L.

People mix two way and three way speakers all the time, for example, F208s front LR, C208 for center and M106s for surrounds. No problem with that configuration.

If you want all 3 way in-wall speakers, the W893 is very good and MSRP is $1,000 each vs the W990 MSRP of $1,750 each.

Specs on the W893:

9” Micro-Ceramic Composite (MCC) Cone, Cast-Aluminum Frame High-Output Woofer
• 3.5” micro-ceramic composite (MCC) cone, cast-aluminum frame high-output
midrange
• 1” aluminum dome swiveling high-output tweeter with waveguide
• 3-position HF level control
• LF boundary compensation
• Advanced high-order crossover network
• Mounting depth: 3.7” (9.4 cm)
• Weight: 10.8 lb (4.9 kg) / Shipping weight: 12.8 lb (5.8 kg)
• Cutout dimensions (H x W): 17.4” x 11.6” (44.3 cm x 29.5 cm)
• Includes zero-bezel magnetic grille
• Grille finished dimension (H x W): 18.5” x 12.7” (47.0 cm x 32.3 cm)
• C-2 fastening mechanism
• Compatible with wall material thickness range: 0.5” – 2.0” (1.3 cm – 5.0 cm)
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
• Recommended amplifier power range: 10- 200 watts
• Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 89 dB
• Frequency Range -3 dB from 32Hz-28kHz; -10dB from 23-35kHz

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 05-22-2020 at 12:01 PM.
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post #18018 of 18475 Old 05-22-2020, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post
Hello
I am hoping for some advice.
I have a 7.2 system made entirely of Revel Performa 3 speakers. F208, c208, m106, s206 , and 2 svs subs.
I am thinking of adding 4 height speakers ( 2 front and 2 rear heights). I don't want to put holes in my ceiling, but I can put them high on my front and back wall. I am looking at angled speakers like the svs prime elevations, or Canton AR 800. I looked at Revels website and I don't see that they make any angled speakers. I would like to stay with Revels to match my current speakers. Does Revel Make an angled speaker? If not, is there a bracket that will fit a Revel M106 or M105 that can be placed on a wall, and angled down? If not, then which speakers do you recommend?
Thank you so much for you suggestions.
About a year ago, local custom installer fashioned custom mounts for 4 x M105. Angled at the listening position. Don't settle for anything less if you have an all Performa3 system. Its quite startling, and absolutely blows away any in ceiling Atmos system you'll hear.

PM me if you want ideas. Yes, it looks stupid. But it sounds unreal.
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post #18019 of 18475 Old 05-22-2020, 09:38 PM
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@John Schuermann and/or @Rex Anderson said Kevin Voecks suggested using M80XC's for heights and that is what I am planning. I looked at various Revel/Harman options and the M80XC's seem like a good fit for me in terms of performance, ease of mounting (ball mount), size, and cost. I do not want ceiling speakers; these will go high on the side walls. My room is isolated (floating walls and ceiling) so the ball mount is perfect for me.

IIRC, the M106 was preferred over the M105 for its greater power handling and such (do not remember all the details, ping @Rex Anderson or your dealer -- though it is probably in this thread, somewhere...)

I just can't justify the M105/M106 in my room; the M80XC is less than half the cost and should be good enough for heights. Plus they come with a nice mounting system.

Of course, if I had a bigger room, and budget, the M106's would be going up! But I blew all my money on base speakers and the processor, going to have to scale back the surrounds.

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post #18020 of 18475 Old 05-22-2020, 10:33 PM
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Apologies if this has been covered before (I searched this thread but couldn't find the answer) - does anybody know if the Concerta M8 speakers can be mounted horizontally without harming the sound/output? I would assume yes, but would appreciate confirmation if anybody knows.
Did you ever figure out a good/clean way to mount the M8s (non-center channel) horizontally? I was hoping Revel sold an accessory mount but I haven't been able to find one. Thanks in advance!
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post #18021 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 10:59 AM
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Hey guys,

I am posting here because I was debating on the Revel in wall W893 and the James Loudspeaker QX830.

I went with the James for LCR, and Revel F35 for surrounds and rear surrounds.

I previously had Klipsch for LCR.

I am pretty disappointed with the James.

Audyssey set the crossover on the James to 120hz, but James specs say they play down to 60hz.

I manually changed the crossover back to 80hz or the localization of the subs was very apparent with 120hz crossover.

Anyway, the James sounds like it has a veil covering it and that speech sounds muffled, and not totally clear as you would expect. Whereas before the Klipsch was very clear and distinct. It is weird because music and things in movies sound ok, but I suspect because we are all very used to hearing speech and know if speech sounds muffled or clear.

I attached some of the before and after corrections that Audyssey did for the LCR and then the comparison vs the surround Revel. As you can see the Revel is nearly perfect. I know that it isn't boundary issues because the center measures nearly exactly the same as the left and right. And previously I had the Klipsch only 1 foot from each side wall as well and the klipsch measured similarly to the Revel and Audyssey was able to create much more of a straight flat line.

The James has a full metal backing and I played them out open in the room before putting them in the wall and I could tell right away that to me they sounded flat, and had no bass and didn't sound full but was told and thought they would sound different in wall.

Will you please let me know your thoughts and what you can tell from the below graphs? Is this something I can correct somehow?

I am really wishing right now that I went with the Revel 893s...
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post #18022 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 11:16 AM
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Revel Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post

Anyway, the James sounds like it has a veil covering it and that speech sounds muffled, and not totally clear as you would expect. Whereas before the Klipsch was very clear and distinct. It is weird because music and things in movies sound ok, but I suspect because we are all very used to hearing speech and know if speech sounds muffled or clear.

I attached some of the before and after corrections that Audyssey did for the LCR and then the comparison vs the surround Revel. As you can see the Revel is nearly perfect. I know that it isn't boundary issues because the center measures nearly exactly the same as the left and right. And previously I had the Klipsch only 1 foot from each side wall as well and the klipsch measured similarly to the Revel and Audyssey was able to create much more of a straight flat line.

The James has a full metal backing and I played them out open in the room before putting them in the wall and I could tell right away that to me they sounded flat, and had no bass and didn't sound full but was told and thought they would sound different in wall.
Have you installed them yet?

Listening to in walls outside of a wall is a really poor way to gauge performance.

I’m pretty sure that even if you had chosen any other in wall, without installing them you would end with the same result.

Also, did you try without Audessey?

Have you checked that distances, levels, and phase are correct on everything?

From the looks of that design, they seem to be LCR’s that are meant to be crossed over with a sub. Did you do that yet?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)

Last edited by Russdawg1; 05-23-2020 at 11:44 AM.
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post #18023 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 01:30 PM
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Revel Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
I am really wishing right now that I went with the Revel 893s...
Attached are audyssey results with corrections up to 250hz for my w893s I am using on side walls for my surrounds. They are a few feet back from my seats and higher than ear level, so somewhat off axis.






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Last edited by shoeboo; 05-23-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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post #18024 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
Attached are audyssey results with corrections up to 250hz for my w893s I am using on side walls for my surrounds. They are a few feet back from my seats and higher than ear level, so somewhat off axis.






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Yes Russ, they're installed in the wall...

Thank you for taking the time to show me the pics shoeboo!

Hmmm shoot... by that it looks like the James is "better" than what your 893 measured? To ME it just sounds like the speech isn't as clear as it could be, but maybe this could be how speech is supposed to sound? It looks like the revel definitely measures more below 120hz. What crossover did Audyssey set your 893s to?

Audyssey has an option where you can turn on or off midrange compensation. With the Klipsch I used to have the midrange compensation on and that would create a dip in the midrange and tone down some of the harshness and brightness / how clear the speech was. If I turned off the midrange compensation it was very, very clear but overly bright and would echo around in my room like crazy so I always left it on.

With the James I originally had the midrange compensation on as well but it sounded a bit muffled so I turned it off after an hour and it improved it some.

I guess I don't know what to expect from in wall speakers? So in-walls will never measure quite like the image I attached of the tower where Audyssey is nearly able to complete "correct" them?

Is there anything in the attached Audyssey that you would be able to tell what I am talking about maybe being slightly muffled? Or maybe this is how speakers / speech are "supposed" to sound and I am just used to something else?

I know speakers are more than just posting Audyssey charts / spins but shouldn't it be a good or decent guide?

Last edited by Drew1204; 05-23-2020 at 02:51 PM.
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post #18025 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
Yes Russ, they're installed in the wall...

Thank you for taking the time to show me the pics shoeboo!

Hmmm shoot... by that it looks like the James is "better" than what your 893 measured? To ME it just sounds like the speech isn't as clear as it could be, but maybe this could be how speech is supposed to sound? It looks like the revel definitely measures more below 120hz. What crossover did Audyssey set your 893s to?

Audyssey has an option where you can turn on or off midrange compensation. With the Klipsch I used to have the midrange compensation on and that would create a dip in the midrange and tone down some of the harshness and brightness / how clear the speech was. If I turned off the midrange compensation it was very, very clear but overly bright and would echo around in my room like crazy so I always left it on.

With the James I originally had the midrange compensation on as well but it sounded a bit muffled so I turned it off after an hour and it improved it some.

I guess I don't know what to expect from in wall speakers? So in-walls will never measure quite like the image I attached of the tower where Audyssey is nearly able to complete "correct" them?

Is there anything in the attached Audyssey that you would be able to tell what I am talking about maybe being slightly muffled? Or maybe this is how speakers / speech are "supposed" to sound and I am just used to something else?

I know speakers are more than just posting Audyssey charts / spins but shouldn't it be a good or decent guide?
To clarify, I had correction turned off above 250 hz so midrange compensation wouldn’t come into play. The W893 seemed to have more even output in the voice region, were James are down around -10 dB when comparing the “before” results. Attached are audyssey full correction results.




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post #18026 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
To clarify, I had correction turned off above 250 hz so midrange compensation wouldn’t come into play. The W893 seemed to have more even output in the voice region, were James are down around -10 dB when comparing the “before” results. Attached are audyssey full correction results.




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Oh wow yeah -- that is crazy, attached are my full correction results from the James.

Edit: which part of the chart is speech range, and why would you choose to turn off correction above 250hz?
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post #18027 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 04:55 PM
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The upper end of speech is out to about 6 kHz, but 1-4 kHz (around the mid-range compensation adjustment in audyssey) is normally considered pretty important for dialogue intelligibility.
Regarding limiting room correction, you could search Schroeder frequency (which is 250 Hz for my room), but succinctly - the room heavily influences the low frequency (modal region) but not the direct sound from the speaker. Above Schroeder it could be argued you are performing “speaker” correction rather than “room” correction. I tried both ways and preferred to limit the correction, although it was mostly based off my front speakers and not my surround/atmos speakers.


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post #18028 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
Hey guys,

I am posting here because I was debating on the Revel in wall W893 and the James Loudspeaker QX830.

I went with the James for LCR, and Revel F35 for surrounds and rear surrounds.

I previously had Klipsch for LCR.

I am pretty disappointed with the James.

Audyssey set the crossover on the James to 120hz, but James specs say they play down to 60hz.

I manually changed the crossover back to 80hz or the localization of the subs was very apparent with 120hz crossover.

Anyway, the James sounds like it has a veil covering it and that speech sounds muffled, and not totally clear as you would expect. Whereas before the Klipsch was very clear and distinct. It is weird because music and things in movies sound ok, but I suspect because we are all very used to hearing speech and know if speech sounds muffled or clear.

I attached some of the before and after corrections that Audyssey did for the LCR and then the comparison vs the surround Revel. As you can see the Revel is nearly perfect. I know that it isn't boundary issues because the center measures nearly exactly the same as the left and right. And previously I had the Klipsch only 1 foot from each side wall as well and the klipsch measured similarly to the Revel and Audyssey was able to create much more of a straight flat line.

The James has a full metal backing and I played them out open in the room before putting them in the wall and I could tell right away that to me they sounded flat, and had no bass and didn't sound full but was told and thought they would sound different in wall.

Will you please let me know your thoughts and what you can tell from the below graphs? Is this something I can correct somehow?

I am really wishing right now that I went with the Revel 893s...
Wow the measurement on those speakers look terrible. EQ isn't going to fix that. What kind of measurements provided by the manufacturer led you to believe they would be superior to Revel 893? Just curious. Or was it just marketing/reputation?

The chances of all three being equally defective somehow seems implausible. If thats the case, they're just really really bad. I would demand a refund or replacement speakers that aren't defective. If not defective, their specs are fraudulently inaccurate and are reason for refund.

Last edited by bear123; 05-23-2020 at 05:07 PM.
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post #18029 of 18475 Old 05-23-2020, 10:54 PM
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Revels may not sound much better in your walls. Walls can make for a crappy speaker enclosure. Or at least unpredictable. My Revel 783s don't sound very good, but I'm not blaming the speaker.
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post #18030 of 18475 Old 05-24-2020, 06:26 AM
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M80XC Covers

I would like to leave the M80XCs mounted outside during the winter off season. Any cover recommendations? Thanks.
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