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post #9511 of 18678 Old 12-17-2016, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLRon View Post
the recommended match to the 207's, but I do not see any available.
Ron,

I recently bought a 204/C2 from a private party who I think moved from 207/2s to Blades. It's beautiful, but I've been thinking of returning to a phantom center between my 107/2s. You should be aware it's 3.5' long and weight 76 pounds. The one I have is piano black and in beautiful condition. I use Parasound JC 1 monoblocks for LCR. If you're interested, PM me.

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post #9512 of 18678 Old 12-18-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FLRon View Post
That is a great question, as i wondered the same thing, and I just purchased the 207's without ever hearing them.

I just have listened a few times, as they are just a few weeks old. It was not a quantum leap forward. The 4's are amazingly good. The first thing I did notice was a greater depth in the low frequencies. I had to tweak the sub settings to dial back the low freq. the. Was easy enough. Then I started to notice a bit more interesting things occurring with the sound stage. Perhaps more awareness of instrument and vocal placement in the soundstage. Finally, it just seems like a bigger, fatter sound, particularly in the rock music I have sampled.
I switched to some 2-channel jazz cds and it had all the wonderful mids and highs of the 4.
I will need more listening to discover all the great personality traits of these speakers, but unless you have the money burning a hole in your pocket, I truthfully can't say it is vastly better or superior.
Enjoy your 4's with no regrets. 😊
Thanks for the feedback. I always wondered (besides the finish) how much better a speaker as refined as the Ref 4s can get. I'm sure the 207 ARE better but it's not a cheap upgrade

The only reason I upgraded my center was because I always felt that the 200C (my previous center) wasn't up to par with the Ref 4s. Besides that, the center speaker is arguably the most important speaker in surround setups (I hardly listen to 2-channel). For the record, I have Ref 2s as side, Q2Ds (modded to bipole) as wides, T101 as front heights and I upgraded my 70s to SVS Prime Elevations for rears. The Prime match really nicely with the KEF Speakers.
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post #9513 of 18678 Old 12-18-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by exm View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I always wondered (besides the finish) how much better a speaker as refined as the Ref 4s can get. I'm sure the 207 ARE better but it's not a cheap upgrade

The only reason I upgraded my center was because I always felt that the 200C (my previous center) wasn't up to par with the Ref 4s. Besides that, the center speaker is arguably the most important speaker in surround setups (I hardly listen to 2-channel). For the record, I have Ref 2s as side, Q2Ds (modded to bipole) as wides, T101 as front heights and I upgraded my 70s to SVS Prime Elevations for rears. The Prime match really nicely with the KEF Speakers.
I agree with your assessment of the 200c. I have always been a bit confused as to how that speaker could be considered a match to the 4's. It has always been a bit unimpressive to my ears. My earlier system was a Yamaha DSP-1 which allowed me to easily tweak the Eq of the center. My newer system has an auto setup with a microphone, so I just accepted whatever the pre/pro determined was optimal, and left it at that.

I think an upgrade is finally in order.

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier message was that the 207, much like the 4's love lots of power. They just sound better and better the more I push them.
I don't have a large, dedicated theater/sound room, so I must live within the sonic confines of my living room. These 207's at Reference volume offer quite an experience.

I never warmed up to the Blades, but I will keep an open mind until I can listen to them one day.

Enjoy!
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post #9514 of 18678 Old 12-18-2016, 06:43 PM
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I recently bought 2 KEF Q100,'s for the rears, and 1 KEF Q400 sub-woofer. I am considering getting the Q600c or Q200c for the center channel. For the front speakers, should i get 2 more Q100's? Or two tower speakers? Any recommendations for tower speakers?

This will be used in my living room. I am willing to spend $700 on the center speaker. And $700 each for the front speakers.

I am currently running a denon 2113cl. I am thinking about upgrading that also.

Thanks
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post #9515 of 18678 Old 12-18-2016, 07:08 PM
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You would have an ideal set-up if you were to add a pair of Q500 floor standing and a Q200c center speaker. If you're in the US the Q500 are on sale for $700 a pair and the Q200c for $400, so well under budget.

The weak link at that point is your subwoofer. The Q400b is OK, but nowhere near what a good SVS, Hsu Research, or Rythmik sub would do for very little more money. If you paid list price for the Q400b those other companies have subs for the same money that outperform it.

Consider if you have that total $2100 available, spend $1100 on the Q500 & Q200c. Now you've got $1000 to get a more current receiver if you need (or anticipate needing) features such as Dolby Atmos, a higher level Audyssey, HDMI2.0, HDCP2.2 and more. Unless you need that, a better sub would be where I'd put that money.
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post #9516 of 18678 Old 12-18-2016, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sssstran View Post
I recently bought 2 KEF Q100,'s for the rears, and 1 KEF Q400 sub-woofer. I am considering getting the Q600c or Q200c for the center channel. For the front speakers, should i get 2 more Q100's? Or two tower speakers? Any recommendations for tower speakers?

This will be used in my living room. I am willing to spend $700 on the center speaker. And $700 each for the front speakers.

I am currently running a denon 2113cl. I am thinking about upgrading that also.

Thanks
Steve
Depends on your listening habits and distance from the speakers . If you're doing mostly HT and don't listen at reference level, the Q100's would suffice unless you're sitting 15 feet away. If you do a lot of 2 channel music listening, the Q500/700 would be a better choice.
The Q400 is good for music application but not the best for HT. An SVS PB-1000 would be a much better sub and better value. The sub does not need to match the speakers in any way.
Having 2 subs (properly placed) would give smoother response across multiple listening positions.
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post #9517 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 09:27 AM
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Thanks for the responses guys, I'm gonna return my kef sub. Which svs pb1000 should I get? There's different sizes. Is the best place to purchase Amazon?
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post #9518 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 09:46 AM
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Thanks for the responses guys, I'm gonna return my kef sub. Which svs pb1000 should I get? There's different sizes. Is the best place to purchase Amazon?
They an SVS PB-1000 OR SB-1000. I would go with the PB-1000 for HT purposes. You order directly from the SVS web site.
https://www.svsound.com/

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post #9519 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
They an SVS PB-1000 OR SB-1000. I would go with the PB-1000 for HT purposes. You order directly from the SVS web site.
https://www.svsound.com/
SVS also has great values in their "Outlet" section, if you can tolerate a nick or scratch to save $50 to a couple hundred bucks and still get 100% warranty. Be sure to read their "Bill of Rights", it's part what makes buying an SVS sub so attractive to me.

Lastly, get a tape measure out and try to visualize the actual size. PB's can be huge.
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post #9520 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
They an SVS PB-1000 OR SB-1000. I would go with the PB-1000 for HT purposes. You order directly from the SVS web site.
https://www.svsound.com/


Why not get the SVS SB12-NSD, you can still get them for $400 (Amazon)
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post #9521 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 04:56 PM
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I am going to order 2 pairs of black Q100's. Is anyone interested in buying 1 for a center channel?
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post #9522 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 05:06 PM
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Why not get the SVS SB12-NSD, you can still get them for $400 (Amazon)
Great suggestion because those SB12-NSD's are right between the SB1000 and SB2000 of current product. It's the same 12" driver of the SB1000 with a 400 watt amp, with is right between the 300 watt of the SB1000 and 500 watt of the SB2000.

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I am going to order 2 pairs of black Q100's. Is anyone interested in buying 1 for a center channel?
If you check the classified ads section of this website you'll find there's a thread there about this very issue. You might have a buyer already waiting!

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post #9523 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 06:04 PM
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My couch is about 15ft away from my tv in the living room. So I will have the Q100's in the rear. Q200C on order for the center. 2 Q500's are on order for the front. SVS-PB-1000 on order. Should I change the order to the SB12-NSD or SB-1000?

Right now I listening to a lot of music, watch movies, and play games in the living room.

Any recommendations for stands for the Center Channel and the two rears?

I am thinking about waiting until after CES to order an updated AVR. Thoughts?

Thanks again
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post #9524 of 18678 Old 12-19-2016, 06:44 PM
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The sealed subs (SB1000, SB12-NSD, & SB2000) won't go as low with as much volume as a ported sub, though they are considered by many to be a little better for most music. That's because most music doesn't have the low frequency rumbling of most movies and games and a sealed can often react a little faster. Sealed subs also appeal to some people (me for one) because of their much more compact size. Ported subs can be 2.5x or more larger cabinet than a nearly equivalent sealed sub.

Other considerations are neighbors. Deep frequencies travel further and can resonate through walls and floors. In my case that would bother my tenant, who I respect. Even my SB2000 is toned down when she's home. You may have a "cohabitant" who isn't tolerant of LF.

I like stands from Sanus, but Monoprice has some good values too. I've actually owned a pair of really nice stands from Paradigm, don't know if they offer them anymore. Ideally your surrounds should be 12" to 18" above ear level, front L-C-R speakers should even with the listener's ears.

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post #9525 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FLRon View Post
I recently upgraded my Kef Reference 4 main speakers to the Kef 207/2's. I m using the 200c center channel speakers that was the kef offering to compliment the 4's back in the late 1990's.

I would like to upgrade my center channel speaker to a Reference 204/2c, the recommended match to the 207's, but I do not see any available.
There is a Kef Reference 202c available at a terrific price on US Audio. I've got one and it sounds terrific and should be a great match for your 207/2s. The 204 is nice but an absolute monster size wise (although the 207/2s are also massive). At the price offered, the available 202c might be a good way to get a better center speaker for the time being until you can find what you want. A 204c on the used market is very, very rare whereas you may have more luck with the 202/2c or 202c.

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post #9526 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 08:42 AM
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Since they don't get mentioned much, I thought I'd give a shout out to the Ci200QL I just installed as surrounds yesterday (and two more for backs today, with 4x Ci200QR for Atmos duty i).

I'm in the middle of a theater remodel (and my thread is hideously out of date!) and bought these to eliminate knocking our heads in the aisle as we were sometimes prone to do with the wall-mounted speakers we were previously using. After install, I connected them as front left/right and just played some music and they really don't sound like in-walls of old. After about an hour of listening to Led Zeppelin, Heather Nova and Adele, I could live with these instead of in-room speakers for front LCR if I hadn't already bought that set two months ago (though I didn't play very loud and so maybe they wont be quite as unconstrained in movie dynamics as the PSA MTM-210s) ! Our walls are lined with regular pink fluffy insulation, so they are not a drum head in a hollow box, but otherwise I just cut the drywall and screwed them in.

Recommended!
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post #9527 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
There is a Kef Reference 202c available at a terrific price on US Audio. I've got one and it sounds terrific and should be a great match for your 207/2s. The 204 is nice but an absolute monster size wise (although the 207/2s are also massive). At the price offered, the available 202c might be a good way to get a better center speaker for the time being until you can find what you want. A 204c on the used market is very, very rare whereas you may have more luck with the 202/2c or 202c.
If I could find a 202/2c to try with my 107/2s, I'd sell my 204/2c to Ron to match his 207/2s -- I suspect the 90s 107/2s proceeded the era of center channels 'cause there doesn't appear to be a KEF center aimed at matching them.

BTW, the 204/2c may be a monster, but it is a magnificent monster that seems pretty free of vocal-range emphasis, so it's good for surround music as well as HT.

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post #9528 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
There is a Kef Reference 202c available at a terrific price on US Audio. I've got one and it sounds terrific and should be a great match for your 207/2s. The 204 is nice but an absolute monster size wise (although the 207/2s are also massive). At the price offered, the available 202c might be a good way to get a better center speaker for the time being until you can find what you want. A 204c on the used market is very, very rare whereas you may have more luck with the 202/2c or 202c.
Greetings and thanks for the heads-up on the 202. I have seen that one posted but I am going to wait for a 204/2c to pop up. If I get tired of waiting, there is always the new Reference center channel available. Half the fun is the hunt.
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post #9529 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 05:24 PM
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I just bit the bullet and ordered 3 pairs of Q100s. I will be using them in our master bedrooms at home and our new vacation home. I am going to using the Q100 for the centers too. KEF was kind enough to split the shipment and ship 3 speakers to each location.

All that is left is to purchase a sub for vacation home. I am considering the Sunfire HRS-10 (refurb $450), Sunfire SDS-8 (refurb $200) or the SVS B12-NSD ($400). My room is 1900 CF. I don't need to go very deep, really just want to supplement the low end of the Q100's to make them sound full range. I don't want to over do it because of my wife, read below.

Funny story, about 10 years ago the family was watching Final Destination 2 in our family room on our 120" projector, Dynaudio contour 3.3 speakers, Sim Moon Titian amp and a pair of Velodyne DD18s (those where the good old days). Remember the part at the beginning where the logs fall off the logging truck on the highway. Well, those subs just kicked in and you felt like you were there, the house rocked. My wife just turns and says "Why" . The kids and I just laugh.

So I can't do that in her master bedroom. Do you think the SDS-8 is enough? or go for one of the larger subs.

thanks
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post #9530 of 18678 Old 12-20-2016, 05:32 PM
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Incredible speakers! I don't know if there's any backer boxes available, and if you're mounting them in-ceiling I don't think they're required anyhow. Click the link to THIS PAGE, select "Specifications", scroll to the bottom and review all the documents. You'll find answers there. From what I can see there is an available rough-in frame RIF200R but no box, just a min and max volume of space behind them.
Hi Ken:
Thanks for your response. I tried to answer sooner but the log in pop up wouldn't work on my iPhone. Finally I am using a laptop so I can answer.
I am confused! Some people say I need a backer box, others say I don't. I want to use the backer boxes to insure less sound travels up through a soundproofed ceiling.
I looked at the link you provided. I have seen that page before. It provides the volume needed for a backer box by model #. OK I get that. But no dimensions? I guess you back into the dimensions based on the volume.
It seems that KEF makes a backer box for theCi2002QR and 3QR but not the Ci200RR. Wow, really?? it won't fit or work with the Ci200RR??
Then I came across a simple looking solution, the Dynamat Dynabox. It looks easy and pretty effective. Do you have any knowledge about this product?
Thanks!!
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post #9531 of 18678 Old 12-21-2016, 10:27 PM
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its been very quiet here. I bought the Sunfire sds8 to go with my Q100.
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post #9532 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 04:06 AM
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Hi Ken:
Thanks for your response. I tried to answer sooner but the log in pop up wouldn't work on my iPhone. Finally I am using a laptop so I can answer.
I am confused! Some people say I need a backer box, others say I don't. I want to use the backer boxes to insure less sound travels up through a soundproofed ceiling.
I looked at the link you provided. I have seen that page before. It provides the volume needed for a backer box by model #. OK I get that. But no dimensions? I guess you back into the dimensions based on the volume.
It seems that KEF makes a backer box for theCi2002QR and 3QR but not the Ci200RR. Wow, really?? it won't fit or work with the Ci200RR??
Then I came across a simple looking solution, the Dynamat Dynabox. It looks easy and pretty effective. Do you have any knowledge about this product?
Thanks!!
bp
I am no KEF expert so I suggest you contact KEF USA (if that's where you are) via their website (not the KEF Direct retail one.) You could ask them the dimensions of the backer box for the Ci200QR and do the math to see if it matches with the recommended volume for the Ci200RR-THX. My calculations come up with an external dimensions volume of 0.794 cubic feet. Inside I think that puts it at the KEF recommended maximum of 0.71 cubic feet for your speakers. That should be OK, I just don't know if that's any cheaper than building a 0.35 to 0.71 cu. ft. box out of MDF and stuffing it with Roxsul.

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its been very quiet here. I bought the Sunfire sds8 to go with my Q100.
Sorry I couldn't offer any input fast enough. I'm sick with walking pneumonia and not on top of everything lately. I probably would have said go with the most sub you can because you can always dial it back, while you can't get more out of a small one if you need it. Good luck.

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Last edited by KenM10759; 12-22-2016 at 06:54 AM.
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post #9533 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 08:06 AM
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If a smaller speaker is what you prefer, 4 of the Q100's will make you happy unless it's a huge room with great distances to cover. If it's a closed in (4 walls) room, I happen to love the effect you get with the Q800ds as surrounds. Those ideally work best at 18-24" above seated eye level and the same distance behind, for best 5.1 or 7.1 setup.
Thanks for your feedback. With my room I won't be able to place the rear speakers very far behind the couch, and they would likely be at ear level as opposed to above. Would it be a waste to splurge on the Q800DS if I can't get the placement you suggested? They're on sale right now for $499 at KEFDirect.
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post #9534 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 08:09 AM
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I wouldn't risk the Q800ds purchase in your situation then. Go with Q100's placed and pointed where you can.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #9535 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 12:19 PM
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Hi guys,

I just bought a pair of Q500's and a Denon X2300 to start building up my HT system. Q200c is on backorder. I have single wired (Monster XP) both Front L/R. They sound terrific
But while watching YT, Netflix, Amazon, DirectTV NOW through the Amazon apps I noticed that I have to crank up the volume to 65-70 to match what I had on the TV earlier. I have a MI Box, FireTV and Samsung Apps on the TV (connected through ARC), almost same experience with all.
My family room is 17*14, 9 ft ceiling. Its an open floor plan so the room extends another 20ft to the dining area and kitchen. I ran audyssey twice and the speakers are about 9 ft from the fireplace at the far left of the attached picture to the seating area. Is that high volume normal for my setup or could there be some issue with my AVR? From my research earlier and help in this forum I feel my AVR is powerful enough for the speakers despite these speakers having higher sensitivity (87db). Just wanted to know if there were additional settings or something else that needed to be done for tuning. Thanks!
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post #9536 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutzin357 View Post
Hi guys,

I just bought a pair of Q500's and a Denon X2300 to start building up my HT system. Q200c is on backorder. I have single wired (Monster XP) both Front L/R. They sound terrific
But while watching YT, Netflix, Amazon, DirectTV NOW through the Amazon apps I noticed that I have to crank up the volume to 65-70 to match what I had on the TV earlier. I have a MI Box, FireTV and Samsung Apps on the TV (connected through ARC), almost same experience with all.
My family room is 17*14, 9 ft ceiling. Its an open floor plan so the room extends another 20ft to the dining area and kitchen. I ran audyssey twice and the speakers are about 9 ft from the fireplace at the far left of the attached picture to the seating area. Is that high volume normal for my setup or could there be some issue with my AVR? From my research earlier and help in this forum I feel my AVR is powerful enough for the speakers despite these speakers having higher sensitivity (87db). Just wanted to know if there were additional settings or something else that needed to be done for tuning. Thanks!
I had the same issue early on. See if your cable box has a volume button on the front of it and turn it all the way up. If you don't, on your Denon menu go to> inputs>source level and increase to +3 or whatever level you're comfortable with. Note: you will need to do this for each source.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
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post #9537 of 18678 Old 12-22-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I had the same issue early on. See if your cable box has a volume button on the front of it and turn it all the way up. If you don't, on your Denon menu go to> inputs>source level and increase to +3 or whatever level you're comfortable with. Note: you will need to do this for each source.
Thanks! will give that a shot.
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post #9538 of 18678 Old 12-24-2016, 02:21 AM
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RE Reference 204/2c: I listened to large orchestration and jazz Blu rays with DTS-HD MA processing tonight, trying to compare the sound to what I remembered when the R600c was my center speaker. I realize this was a flawed comparison, but my impression is the 204/2c is a closer sonic match to my 107/2s, creating an entirely seamless soundstage. The R600c seemed to have a bit of lower mid-range emphasis that detracted from the sense of transparency of the 107/s. For surround music, I preferred using a phantom center in order to preserve transparency. The 204/2c doesn't have that emphasis so transparency seems to match that of the 107/2s. It may be a voicing decision by KEF, perhaps aiming the R600c more for HT than surround music, likely a smart marketing decision. The 107/2 -204/2c - 107/2 triad are driven by Parasound JC 1 monoblocks and capable of great dynamic range with a sense of ease. But the 204/2c is a big (3.5' wide), heavy (76 pounds) center speaker that could be difficult to fit into many setups.

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post #9539 of 18678 Old 12-24-2016, 03:24 PM
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Random question, I recently received my KEF Q300s and bought a stand from Amazon from Pangea. I didn't realize the top plate of the speaker stand is only 6x6 and the KEF base measures 8x11. Am I asking for trouble with such a small top plate, or should I be fine if I add some blu-tack to the stand.
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post #9540 of 18678 Old 12-24-2016, 04:02 PM
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It can be difficult and expensive to find stands covering the full length and width of many medium to large stand mount speakers. They're out there, but you often have to make a styling sacrifice in addition to the wallet drain.

You'll be fine with that, especially if adding the Blu-Tack to the stand. No worries.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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