KEF Owners Thread - Page 545 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5606Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #16321 of 18239 Old 01-07-2019, 06:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Perpendicular's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California
Posts: 3,136
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 306 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I felt plugging the ports made them sound congested and don't like the sound at all. I removed the plugs and went with a higher crossover. My system sounds much better much better since I got it dialed in.
I don’t hear congestion with the ports plugged. What I do hear is lack of midrange leakage from the port (less congested), a bit less of the cabinet from lack of damping and tighter bass response.
Perpendicular is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #16322 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 09:46 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jus32 View Post
Right now worry about speakers. Finding speakers this good as R series speakers are - is going to be tough. So, do not lose the opportunity. Your AVR is going to be enough whether you drive Q series or R series speakers. However, to squeeze everything R series has to offer you'd need to get a better AVR or an amplifier. You could always do it a year or two down the road, but finding R series on sale is going to be a challenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey B. View Post
I have R series system that I was driving with Yamaha 3050 and it had enough power for very loud(uncomfortable) volume levels. I understand that your receiver can provide about half of the power of the 3050, so i would consider either getting a new receiver or an external amp that can be had for a decent price. I ended up with Outlaw 7125 that is currently driving my LCR speakers. I haven't noticed a major difference in sound quality, but my Yamaha runs a lot cooler now. And I also know that i have enough power to drive the speakers to the ear bleeding levels. I think that you will get by with your receiver for now, so take advantage of the R series discounts as I did and enjoy the speakers. Good luck.

PS. They still have stock on R100 and R50 speakers in Canada if anyone interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
I used my old barely above budget Yamaha RX V473 with my new R3's when I upgraded (but only in 2.0 mode) About 80 watts - 2 channel IIRC. They sounded excellent. Luckily I was in a position to upgrade at will and use my new Yamaha RX A2080 in 2.2 (see sig).

It sounds excellent. I would definitely get the R300's. Hook them up and see how it goes. They will sound awesome (maybe just can't play as loud) with your budget AVR. You can always run at less than 5.1 if you have to while saving up for another AVR.

I'm really happy with movies at 2.2 with my R3's! The phantom center is strong. And music is excellent!

Thanks for the input fellas - that's essentially what I assumed, but still learning how the pieces fit together. I'm still going to plan on jumping on an R200c and a set of the outgoing R300's in the near future while the deals are good for them. The RX-V483 that I have now can still get my Q100's more than loud enough to hurt my ears, so I'm assuming that it'll drive the R300 to loud enough levels for my taste. Then in the future when the upgrade bug hits again, I can look into the better AVR at that time.


I've liked the Q100's as my first real audio/theater system beyond a soundbar, but I've found it's making me get more into music and movies as an experience again. So I'm wanting the better quality soundstage upfront (adding a center and upgrading L/R), then naturally just shifting the Q100's to the surround role. It's turning into an addicting hobby, and this forum doesn't help, haha!
KenM10759 likes this.

~Jason~
HT Setup: Samsung 82" UN82MU8000 TV, Yamaha RX-V483BL AVR in 2.1 with Kef Q100 L/R & Klipsch R-120SW
GoHokiesGo is offline  
post #16323 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 10:45 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokiesGo View Post
It's turning into an addicting hobby, and this forum doesn't help, haha!
The forums actually help you to get the right stuff without making too many mistakes. Going through myriad of brands and trying them all out and then selling stuff you do not like is going to be much more expensive. After getting a pair of Q100s and listening to music for a while I realized that I like what I hear. Started digging further and found out that Rxxx series speakers should give me even more.
So, I am quite grateful for all advice I received here because it allowed me to build something solid in the sound department for my home. In the annual report Spotify said I spent nearly 245 days listening to music (over 68000 minutes). That accounts for all the time I was not sleeping, 16 hours daily.

1. Samsung UN55MU7000, Yamaha A2070, KEF R700, R200c, 2x Kube 10b
2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A550, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.

Last edited by Jus32; 01-08-2019 at 10:57 AM.
Jus32 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #16324 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 06:09 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jus32 View Post

I had a Def Tech Procenter 1000 speaker for a while paired first with Def Tec BP-8060ST, and then KEF Q900s. Chose it due to its size, because I could put it on a shelf directly under the TV. While it was doing OK with DT 8060s, they were a huge mismatch for Q900s in every department. Did not keep Q900s for too long and had them replaced with KEF R300s and at that point had to disconnect the center speaker completely as a phantom center speaker was better than the real DT. Shortly after I got a pair of KEF R700s and moved R300s in the basement, into the man's cave so to speak. Knowing myself, I knew I was not going to rest until I tried some other center speaker, I bit the bullet and purchased a more matching R200c one. Not letting it go any time soon [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
My signature shows now my final setups in the living room and the basement. Very pleased with R series speakers. Must say - I have finally satisfied my craving for upgrade. The train will stop as soon as I tried and settled on AVR in the living room as I want to give NAD T758 V3 a try because it comes with Dirac Live.
Thanks for the insight. Did you ever try the R200c with the R300s?

At risk of facing my wife’s wrath, I’m tempted to get a center now while the R series is discounted. I find the bass from the R300s is actually really, freaking good for my use. Maybe lacks that ‘oomph’ while watching movies but I can deal with that for a while.

As someone previously said, this truly is alike to a rabbit hole - and I find myself going deeper and deeper.
Iarnurav is offline  
post #16325 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 06:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,812
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3094 Post(s)
Liked: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iarnurav View Post
Thanks for the insight. Did you ever try the R200c with the R300s?

At risk of facing my wife’s wrath, I’m tempted to get a center now while the R series is discounted. I find the bass from the R300s is actually really, freaking good for my use. Maybe lacks that ‘oomph’ while watching movies but I can deal with that for a while.

As someone previously said, this truly is alike to a rabbit hole - and I find myself going deeper and deeper.
If you're not using a center, the R200c will definitely make a big difference. I wouldn't worry too much about the smaller drivers on the 200c since you wouldn't use the center for music.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is online now  
post #16326 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 06:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iarnurav View Post
Thanks for the insight. Did you ever try the R200c with the R300s?

At risk of facing my wife’s wrath, I’m tempted to get a center now while the R series is discounted. I find the bass from the R300s is actually really, freaking good for my use. Maybe lacks that ‘oomph’ while watching movies but I can deal with that for a while.

As someone previously said, this truly is alike to a rabbit hole - and I find myself going deeper and deeper.
Of course I tried. The R200c is a perfect match for R300s. Personally, I am very, very satisfied with the sound quality, leave alone aesthetically. My wife was nodding, pleasantly smiling, while I was putting it all together.

1. Samsung UN55MU7000, Yamaha A2070, KEF R700, R200c, 2x Kube 10b
2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A550, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.
Jus32 is offline  
post #16327 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 07:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jima4a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 2,164
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
If you're not using a center, the R200c will definitely make a big difference. I wouldn't worry too much about the smaller drivers on the 200c since you wouldn't use the center for music.


I am curious if Ken has spent any time on multichannel music with his R500 and R200c front stage. I am guessing the R200c would do quite well but would like his take. I find my 202/2c works extremely well with my 205/2s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
jima4a is offline  
post #16328 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 09:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
nesto719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Springs ,Co
Posts: 869
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Is there any dealers who give good prices on kef speakers? There are the guys who give good deals on tvs and stereo equipment

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND.
nesto719 is offline  
post #16329 of 18239 Old 01-08-2019, 10:37 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 27,370
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2051 Post(s)
Liked: 1376
^^Try kefdirect.com

Crutchfield also sells KEF speakers.

Afro GT
afrogt is online now  
post #16330 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 03:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KenM10759's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central MA USA
Posts: 5,459
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3288 Post(s)
Liked: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
Is there any dealers who give good prices on kef speakers? There are the guys who give good deals on tvs and stereo equipment
Accessories4Less.com is the company that gets all the "b-stock" KEF, meaning their open box and factory refurbished goods. Limited selections, but great deals on what they have.

Amazon seems to sell quite a bit too, but you have to know what list price is to know if it's a bargain.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red, Bluesound Vault2, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Desktop: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b. Guest room: Hafler 200 L-R, KEF reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, M&K V-90 sub.
KenM10759 is offline  
post #16331 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 03:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KenM10759's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central MA USA
Posts: 5,459
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3288 Post(s)
Liked: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
I am curious if Ken has spent any time on multichannel music with his R500 and R200c front stage. I am guessing the R200c would do quite well but would like his take. I find my 202/2c works extremely well with my 205/2s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have only listened to multi-channel music in the form of concert DVD's, such as Eric Clapton's "Crossroads" shows and the Chris Botti "Live In Boston" DVD.

When I do, it's incredible! This when the R200c really proves its mettle. Of course it can't output the SPL of your Reference 205/2 & R202c/2 setup, but in my smaller room it's really amazing levels of detail and such a deep yet well-defined soundstage.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red, Bluesound Vault2, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Desktop: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b. Guest room: Hafler 200 L-R, KEF reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, M&K V-90 sub.
KenM10759 is offline  
post #16332 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 04:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
KEF Owners Thread

Well I’m back with an updated report on my Q150s. I don’t like them, I preferred my cheap BS22s.

There is, indeed, a strange gap in the mid or upper bass region, above the 100hz crossover, where these speakers are completely and utterly anemic. With some music they sound thin, gutless, and boring - rock and even some of my favorite (Mannheim steamroller Christmas) sound like they’re missing half the band.

Don’t get me wrong, the Q150 are extremely detailed and clear sounding, great for *some* music like acoustic guitar, and vocals are excellent too. They’re in a different league than the BS22s in those categories - however - overall they’re just boring sounding speakers when it comes to “fun” music.

I don’t know if it’s the “British sound” or something else, but there is a real, obvious, lacking frequency range with these speakers that when I set my sub to 200hz crossover is improved greatly. However I think the problem extends beyond 200hz because they still don’t sound as full as the BS22s even with the crossover set that high. And of course that’s high enough where the bass starts to get localized to the sub so it doesn’t fix the problem anyway, it’s just a good way to test what I’m hearing.

Anyway it’s a big disappointment to me, I really wanted to like these speakers and I almost convinced myself they were better. But in the end, for me they’re not. They’re boring sounding, analytical, clear but gutless. And the problem is not solved with a sub. If I had to estimate I’d say the problem zone is 100-250hz. Just a guess based on my amateur testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #16333 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 04:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KenM10759's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central MA USA
Posts: 5,459
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3288 Post(s)
Liked: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Well I’m back with an updated report on my Q150s. I don’t like them, I preferred my cheap BS22s.

There is, indeed, a strange gap in the mid or upper bass region, above the 100hz crossover, where these speakers are completely and utterly anemic. With some music they sound thin, gutless, and boring - rock and even some of my favorite (Mannheim steamroller Christmas) sound like they’re missing half the band.

Don’t get me wrong, the Q150 are extremely detailed and clear sounding, great for *some* music like acoustic guitar, and vocals are excellent too. They’re in a different league than the BS22s in those categories - however - overall they’re just boring sounding speakers when it comes to “fun” music.

I don’t know if it’s the “British sound” or something else, but there is a real, obvious, lacking frequency range with these speakers that when I set my sub to 200hz crossover is improved greatly. However I think the problem extends beyond 200hz because they still don’t sound as full as the BS22s even with the crossover set that high. And of course that’s high enough where the bass starts to get localized to the sub so it doesn’t fix the problem anyway, it’s just a good way to test what I’m hearing.

Anyway it’s a big disappointment to me, I really wanted to like these speakers and I almost convinced myself they were better. But in the end, for me they’re not. They’re boring sounding, analytical, clear but gutless. And the problem is not solved with a sub. If I had to estimate I’d say the problem zone is 100-250hz. Just a guess based on my amateur testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What source device and material were you using with them? This is a really strange report to me because I've heard the Q150's a number of times and couldn't describe them the way you have. Are the BS22's a speaker with a lot of bass bloom or something? Did you have an AVR powering them where you had some DSP going on? If you had something like REW and a MiniDSP working for you, the sound could have been measured accurately and tailored to your needs. Maybe you can do that with the BS22's and get closer to that which the Q150 did do well for you?


Not every speaker will please every listener. You can be assured your ears hear what they do, yet few others would describe the BS22 to be a better overall speaker to the Q150.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red, Bluesound Vault2, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Desktop: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b. Guest room: Hafler 200 L-R, KEF reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, M&K V-90 sub.
KenM10759 is offline  
post #16334 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 05:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
KEF Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
What source device and material were you using with them? This is a really strange report to me because I've heard the Q150's a number of times and couldn't describe them the way you have. Are the BS22's a speaker with a lot of bass bloom or something? Did you have an AVR powering them where you had some DSP going on? If you had something like REW and a MiniDSP working for you, the sound could have been measured accurately and tailored to your needs. Maybe you can do that with the BS22's and get closer to that which the Q150 did do well for you?


Not every speaker will please every listener. You can be assured your ears hear what they do, yet few others would describe the BS22 to be a better overall speaker to the Q150.


I’m using an Onkyo AVR (SR353). The Q150s are actually easier to drive (more sensitive) than the BS22s. I don’t use room correction at all, no signal processing. Source is either straight from the CD or ALAC uncompressed rips. The room setup is not the issue, I’ve tried different setups - it seems to be purely a matter of the Q150s being deliberately recessed in some frequencies (perhaps to make them sound clearer and more detailed?)

Yes the BS22s have a stronger bass delivery than the Q150s, but it’s more than just the low bass - even with a sub crossed at 100hz, the Q150s sound weak and thin with some music. It’s the frequency range above 100 where the problem lies, and I know that because as I set the crossover higher and higher (even to the max of 200) the “missing sound” suddenly comes back. But the problem doesn’t end at 200hz unfortunately. It’s a real shame because when it comes to mids and highs the Q150 are outstanding. Unfortunately they sound incomplete and boring compared even to the budget BS22s.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by pcar964; 01-09-2019 at 06:47 AM.
pcar964 is offline  
post #16335 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 07:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KenM10759's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central MA USA
Posts: 5,459
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3288 Post(s)
Liked: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
I’m using an Onkyo AVR (SR353). The Q150s are actually easier to drive (more sensitive) than the BS22s. I don’t use room correction at all, no signal processing. Source is either straight from the CD or ALAC uncompressed rips. The room setup is not the issue, I’ve tried different setups - it seems to be purely a matter of the Q150s being deliberately recessed in some frequencies (perhaps to make them sound clearer and more detailed?)

Yes the BS22s have a stronger bass delivery than the Q150s, but it’s more than just the low bass - even with a sub crossed at 100hz, the Q150s sound weak and thin with some music. It’s the frequency range above 100 where the problem lies, and I know that because as I set the crossover higher and higher (even to the max of 200) the “missing sound” suddenly comes back. But the problem doesn’t end at 200hz unfortunately. It’s a real shame because when it comes to mids and highs the Q150 are outstanding. Unfortunately they sound incomplete and boring compared even to the budget BS22s.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Different strokes for different folks. To my mind it could be a case of you're accustomed to somewhat pronounced bass & mid-bass out of the Pioneer speakers and thus not impressed with the Q150's that get good reviews without a mention of that.
hpp8140 likes this.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red, Bluesound Vault2, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Desktop: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b. Guest room: Hafler 200 L-R, KEF reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, M&K V-90 sub.
KenM10759 is offline  
post #16336 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 08:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Different strokes for different folks. To my mind it could be a case of you're accustomed to somewhat pronounced bass & mid-bass out of the Pioneer speakers and thus not impressed with the Q150's that get good reviews without a mention of that.


That is probably true. However, even if the BS22s were somewhat boosted in the lower frequencies, I don’t think this is a matter of adjusting to a flat response. The Q150s feel deliberately RECESSED in those frequencies (bass guitar for instance sounds extremely thin).

I’ve seen it described before as the “British sound” which is characterized as mid-centric with recessed bass. I guess I just don’t like the British sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #16337 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 08:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 849 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
Is there any dealers who give good prices on kef speakers? There are the guys who give good deals on tvs and stereo equipment
I have been successful in getting great discounts on KEF equipment by emailing several KEF dealers in the extended local area and asking them for the discount they would give for immediate purchase. When price is settled, you can drive there to pick up the speakers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
SouthernCA is online now  
post #16338 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 08:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 849 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Well I’m back with an updated report on my Q150s. I don’t like them, I preferred my cheap BS22s.

There is, indeed, a strange gap in the mid or upper bass region, above the 100hz crossover, where these speakers are completely and utterly anemic. With some music they sound thin, gutless, and boring - rock and even some of my favorite (Mannheim steamroller Christmas) sound like they’re missing half the band.

Don’t get me wrong, the Q150 are extremely detailed and clear sounding, great for *some* music like acoustic guitar, and vocals are excellent too. They’re in a different league than the BS22s in those categories - however - overall they’re just boring sounding speakers when it comes to “fun” music.

I don’t know if it’s the “British sound” or something else, but there is a real, obvious, lacking frequency range with these speakers that when I set my sub to 200hz crossover is improved greatly. However I think the problem extends beyond 200hz because they still don’t sound as full as the BS22s even with the crossover set that high. And of course that’s high enough where the bass starts to get localized to the sub so it doesn’t fix the problem anyway, it’s just a good way to test what I’m hearing.

Anyway it’s a big disappointment to me, I really wanted to like these speakers and I almost convinced myself they were better. But in the end, for me they’re not. They’re boring sounding, analytical, clear but gutless. And the problem is not solved with a sub. If I had to estimate I’d say the problem zone is 100-250hz. Just a guess based on my amateur testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did you test your BS22 with REW or similar measurements? Is bass artificially boosstsd in that speaker? I remember listening to boomboxes that we're popular in 80s and 90s and they all had bass up to 350 hz artificially boosted. It gave a fuller sound in bass region even though (or may be because of) they did not have much bass below 80 hz.

Q100 speakers have rather flat frequency response till about 100 hz.

If you don't have REW, there are some apps on iPhone that can play pink noise and measure the response.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
hpp8140 and KenM10759 like this.
SouthernCA is online now  
post #16339 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,812
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3094 Post(s)
Liked: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
That is probably true. However, even if the BS22s were somewhat boosted in the lower frequencies, I don’t think this is a matter of adjusting to a flat response. The Q150s feel deliberately RECESSED in those frequencies (bass guitar for instance sounds extremely thin).

I’ve seen it described before as the “British sound” which is characterized as mid-centric with recessed bass. I guess I just don’t like the British sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IME, Kef need good amplification to really shine. They sounded underwhelming hooked to my entry level Pioneer. Things did improve with the Denon 710 and got even better with the X3400. I'm not saying you need hi end $1500 amps, but a better AVR or integrated amp along with a good sub will bring them to life. Running room correction would be helpful as well. The BS22's are much less fussy in that regard and having heard them with the Paradigm Monitor series (which I preferred but couldn't afford at the time) and Kef Qseries, they didn't even come close, at least to my ears.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is online now  
post #16340 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 04:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
KEF Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
IME, Kef need good amplification to really shine. They sounded underwhelming hooked to my entry level Pioneer. Things did improve with the Denon 710 and got even better with the X3400. I'm not saying you need hi end $1500 amps, but a better AVR or integrated amp along with a good sub will bring them to life. Running room correction would be helpful as well. The BS22's are much less fussy in that regard and having heard them with the Paradigm Monitor series (which I preferred but couldn't afford at the time) and Kef Qseries, they didn't even come close, at least to my ears.


Well I tried room correction, did nothing to help in fact i think it made the problem worse.

As for the “needs good amplification,” I realize that appears to be a touchy subject for some people, but not for me as I have a basic understanding of how electric current works. Unless it’s driven past clipping, I don’t think there can logically be any difference between a cheap AVR and a high end amp. I understand how all amps have minor variations (“coloration”) to the signal however all they are doing is the basic task of amplifying a current. There’s nothing magical about amps that would make a speaker suddenly come alive with a better amp unless that amp were adding extra boost to certain frequencies (which would be strange).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
noobtv, Lp85253 and SouthernCA like this.
pcar964 is offline  
post #16341 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 04:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Well I tried room correction, did nothing to help in fact i think it made the problem worse.

As for the “needs good amplification,” I realize that appears to be a touchy subject for some people, but not for me as I have a basic understanding of how electric current works. Unless it’s driven past clipping, I don’t think there can logically be any difference between a cheap AVR and a high end amp. I understand how all amps have minor variations (“coloration”) to the signal however all they are doing is the basic task of amplifying a current. There’s nothing magical about amps that would make a speaker suddenly come alive with a better amp unless that amp were adding extra boost to certain frequencies (which would be strange).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was thinking the same thing before tried to put my mic on a proper stand and finally ran a full 8-point YPAO calibration with RCS (that's what Yamaha A2070 offers for calibration) The difference was so dramatic I could not believe my own ears. Now I need to tame the bass a little to level things out. After that I started even questioning myself why I did not do it before and fell in a rabbit hole with all those upgrades in the past few year.
Back then a pair of Def Tech BP-8060ST towers with their built-in amps did not sound as good as Q900s or even Q100s after calibration in the upper bass range.

1. Samsung UN55MU7000, Yamaha A2070, KEF R700, R200c, 2x Kube 10b
2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A550, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.
Jus32 is offline  
post #16342 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 06:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,812
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3094 Post(s)
Liked: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Well I tried room correction, did nothing to help in fact i think it made the problem worse.

As for the “needs good amplification,” I realize that appears to be a touchy subject for some people, but not for me as I have a basic understanding of how electric current works. Unless it’s driven past clipping, I don’t think there can logically be any difference between a cheap AVR and a high end amp. I understand how all amps have minor variations (“coloration”) to the signal however all they are doing is the basic task of amplifying a current. There’s nothing magical about amps that would make a speaker suddenly come alive with a better amp unless that amp were adding extra boost to certain frequencies (which would be strange).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As with most audio components, diminishing returns does set in past a certain point. A better AVR/amp will have better processing, better DSP, more robust power supplies, better room correction and eq. I've had entry level AVR's and now mid level AVR and the difference is noticeable.
noobtv likes this.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is online now  
post #16343 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 06:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montecito, CA
Posts: 1,590
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 712 Post(s)
Liked: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Unless it’s driven past clipping, I don’t think there can logically be any difference between a cheap AVR and a high end amp.
Keep thinking that. It can save you a lot of money that you can pass along to your kids so they can enjoy the high-end amps.
stash64 likes this.
dbphd is offline  
post #16344 of 18239 Old 01-09-2019, 07:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Keep thinking that. It can save you a lot of money that you can pass along to your kids so they can enjoy the high-end amps.


Haha good advice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #16345 of 18239 Old 01-10-2019, 10:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: NB, Canada
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
That is probably true. However, even if the BS22s were somewhat boosted in the lower frequencies, I don’t think this is a matter of adjusting to a flat response. The Q150s feel deliberately RECESSED in those frequencies (bass guitar for instance sounds extremely thin).

I’ve seen it described before as the “British sound” which is characterized as mid-centric with recessed bass. I guess I just don’t like the British sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Q150 should definitely have better bass response than the BS22

this is probably down to room placement. Some speakers don't play well in some rooms and there's not much you can do to change that (if you've already played with placement that is)

Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
macgallant is offline  
post #16346 of 18239 Old 01-10-2019, 12:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,162
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2790 Post(s)
Liked: 971
So, I posted this in great detail in the Rythmik sub thread but here's a quick summary:

With the Q150s ports sealed, I can now use the LFE input (-3dB at 200Hz upper extension) on my sub and 120Hz crossover point.

(Doing so in the past with ports open sounded like a big bloated, boomy, localized mess... which is why I had to use the Line In inputs and a 100Hz crossover instead that limited upper extension to -3dB at 100Hz.)

Samsung 55" MU8000
Yamaha RX-A2070
KEF Q150 Bookshelf x 5
Rythmik L12 Sealed Subwoofer
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #16347 of 18239 Old 01-11-2019, 03:27 AM
Member
 
MarvinLungwitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
The Q150 should definitely have better bass response than the BS22

this is probably down to room placement. Some speakers don't play well in some rooms and there's not much you can do to change that (if you've already played with placement that is)
Agree. I purchased a pair of Q150 speakers for one of my systems. It took a little while to find the best location for them (they seem a bit pickier in that regard than the Dynaudio Emit m10s I use elsewhere in a similar system), but after finding the right spot, they’re very pleasing speakers, and an outstanding value at their current price.

IMO.
MarvinLungwitz is offline  
post #16348 of 18239 Old 01-11-2019, 09:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I tried moving them all around my room. And I’ve also compared them directly now to BS22s and Elac Debut B6.2s. My unequivocal observations are:

The Q150 are definitely the most detailed and sounded the best for female vocals and acoustic guitar music. You can hear every subtle pick of the string, and it sounds like there are no speakers - only a guitar Really awesome imaging as well.

However, the Q150 fell well short the of the other two when playing deep orchestral music, rock, or anything with a lot of bass. They sounded thin and boring by comparison. I wish it weren’t the case, I really wanted to like these speakers. But I had to admit to myself that I preferred the cheaper speakers overall.

Keep in mind this is purely my subjective opinion based on my own musical preferences, and what sound signature is most pleasing to me. I love the sound the Q150 for some music and it is the most detailed and clear sounding by far - but that doesn’t translate to musical enjoyment for me, so they are getting returned.

I’m keeping the Elacs. But I will miss the Q150s when I play some instrumental and female vocals, no doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #16349 of 18239 Old 01-11-2019, 09:31 AM
_tk
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 550
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
The Q150 should definitely have better bass response than the BS22

this is probably down to room placement. Some speakers don't play well in some rooms and there's not much you can do to change that (if you've already played with placement that is)
Why should they? The BS22's have better low-end bass than a lot of 5 1/4" bookshelves I've heard. The BS22 is remarkable for what it does with a 4" woofer and at a $99 pricetag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Did you test your BS22 with REW or similar measurements? Is bass artificially boosstsd in that speaker? I remember listening to boomboxes that we're popular in 80s and 90s and they all had bass up to 350 hz artificially boosted. It gave a fuller sound in bass region even though (or may be because of) they did not have much bass below 80 hz.

No, the BS22's definitely have bass response below 80Hz. Very solid bass I might add.
_tk is offline  
post #16350 of 18239 Old 01-11-2019, 10:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
Gabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Well I tried moving them all around my room. And I’ve also compared them directly now to BS22s and Elac Debut B6.2s. My unequivocal observations are:

The Q150 are definitely the most detailed and sounded the best for female vocals and acoustic guitar music. You can hear every subtle pick of the string, and it sounds like there are no speakers - only a guitar Really awesome imaging as well.

However, the Q150 fell well short the of the other two when playing deep orchestral music, rock, or anything with a lot of bass. They sounded thin and boring by comparison. I wish it weren’t the case, I really wanted to like these speakers. But I had to admit to myself that I preferred the cheaper speakers overall.

Keep in mind this is purely my subjective opinion based on my own musical preferences, and what sound signature is most pleasing to me. I love the sound the Q150 for some music and it is the most detailed and clear sounding by far - but that doesn’t translate to musical enjoyment for me, so they are getting returned.

I’m keeping the Elacs. But I will miss the Q150s when I play some instrumental and female vocals, no doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I share the same experience. They just lack in midbass (that's what u r missing)
One of the reasons I went with q300 for fronts, and moved q100 to the back.

But in general, the longer I have them, the less I like them kinda, I just feel they lack impression, they r laid back too much.sterile.

And I had them running on NAD, marantz, and rotel
amplification
Gabre is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Kef , Kef Audio , kef blade 2 , Kef Bookshelf Speaker , Kef C4 Subwoofer Black , Kef Center Channel Speaker , Kef Ls50 2 Way Speaker System , Kef Q100bl Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Q700wa Floorstanding Speaker , kef reference 3 , Kef T Series Floor Stand Pair

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off