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post #17821 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Im the owner of 12B, repaced SVS PB1000 with this one.

Disapointed. Bit better for music, but for movies complete flop.

Not sure if and who else here has it, because teading about it, and having ot, two diferent worlds.

SB2000 is guaranteed WAAAY better sub then this 12B
What people need to realize is that subwoofer "quality" is basically the equivalent of horsepower in cars, you just need a big enough sub for your room and 2 is going to have smoother response than 1. There is no dispersion in bass frequencies because the wavelengths are so large they are omni-directional, all that matters is that they have enough output for your room size and preferences. What is most important to good bass is that they are EQ'd to be smooth in your room because every room is going to be a disaster in the bass frequencies if you just plop them down somewhere. I'm living proof of this, I use 2 Polk PSW 505 subs that were 199 each on Amazon, without correction most would say they sound like crap but I've stuffed the ports with foam and EQ'd using REW and a minidsp and have the bass flat (+/- 1.5 decibels) from 20-100Hz and it sounds better than any bass I've heard anywhere.

I have a smaller room so I don't need a lot of output, these may not be enough for larger rooms which is why I equated subs basically as horsepower. Brands are meaningless in subs, just get a solidly built sub or 2 with a good size woofer and you're good to go. The setup is the most important part though, not only to EQ them flat but getting the crossover transition region to be seamless is very hard without measuring.
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post #17822 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 09:38 AM
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Audysey ran twice.
Same room where i had pb1000

But 12B goes into distorsion, flopping, rattling when it cant play what its givem to him.

Plus, it just has too much of mir bass somehow. Its just bassy all the time kinda. Hard to explain.
Tried chamging settings, moving position a bit, playing with volumes, but its just very present.

I can vouch SVS was a better sub.

Kef does sound better with music and thats it.
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post #17823 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim4511 View Post
Q150’s angled down. Good solution for me.


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Not most ideal, however thanks to the uni-q driver it should still sound pretty nice. Something we just gonna play the hand we're dealt.
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post #17824 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Audysey ran twice.
Same room where i had pb1000

But 12B goes into distorsion, flopping, rattling when it cant play what its givem to him.

Plus, it just has too much of mir bass somehow. Its just bassy all the time kinda. Hard to explain.
Tried chamging settings, moving position a bit, playing with volumes, but its just very present.

I can vouch SVS was a better sub.

Kef does sound better with music and thats it.
You can't compare a sealed sub with a ported sub. If you put an SB-1000 (same specs as Kube 12) in your room, you'll have the same results as you did with the Kef sub. A ported will have more output below 35hz giving you more tactile feel which is ideal for HT. The Sb-1000 will have a shallow drop off and extend a little deeper making it ideal for music. As mentioned above, the sub does need to be adequate for the size of the room.
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post #17825 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 11:29 AM
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Im just saying that pb1000 was better sub, and it costs substabtially less.

Sb2000 would 1000% sound better then 12b.

Sb3000 is on a diferent level then all mentioned here.
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post #17826 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Im just saying that pb1000 was better sub, and it costs substabtially less.

Sb2000 would 1000% sound better then 12b.

Sb3000 is on a diferent level then all mentioned here.
SB-2000 has deeper extension and a little more power, but sound quality isn't measured in watts. The SB-3000 would certainly have advantages with the digital app giving you more tuning options.


I'm actually quite happy with the SB-2000 musically which was what I was going for. I was expecting a little more slam down low for HT though. A 2nd SB-2000 would certainly help, but will have to wait a while.

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post #17827 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim4511 View Post
Q150’s angled down. Good solution for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Not most ideal, however thanks to the uni-q driver it should still sound pretty nice. Something we just gonna play the hand we're dealt.

You realize those are his atmos speakers, not his R/L speakers, right?

(although, I don't know that I would have necessarily angled them down - maybe even up)

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post #17828 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post
You realize those are his atmos speakers, not his R/L speakers, right?



(although, I don't know that I would have necessarily angled them down - maybe even up)


Correct. My fronts are R5’s with an R2C center.


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post #17829 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Audysey ran twice.
Same room where i had pb1000

But 12B goes into distorsion, flopping, rattling when it cant play what its givem to him.

Plus, it just has too much of mir bass somehow. Its just bassy all the time kinda. Hard to explain.
Tried chamging settings, moving position a bit, playing with volumes, but its just very present.

I can vouch SVS was a better sub.

Kef does sound better with music and thats it.
I could swear you have (or had?) a DEFECTIVE Kube 12b. My Kube 10b is so close in performance to my SVS SB2000 that I'd own two of these instead of one Kube 10b and one SB2000 if they were available when I bought the SB2000 some 3 years ago.
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post #17830 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 02:29 PM
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Its not defective, we have been through this, and there was another member that chimed in with same issue

Sub is simply not for higher volumes and thats it

And u know how i tested it past?

I have separate 5ch amp, and if i dont turn it on, all i have left working is sub and my 2 atmos speakers

So i would play a movie like that

THEN u hear how it performs and how it handles everything, and how much or little atmos speakers actually bring to the movie
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post #17831 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Audysey ran twice.
Same room where i had pb1000

But 12B goes into distorsion, flopping, rattling when it cant play what its givem to him.

Plus, it just has too much of mir bass somehow. Its just bassy all the time kinda. Hard to explain.
Tried chamging settings, moving position a bit, playing with volumes, but its just very present.

I can vouch SVS was a better sub.

Kef does sound better with music and thats it.
Audyssey is good but the only way to verify what it's doing is the measure the room in a few locations to get a good average. Bad bass is pretty much always the fault of the room and it could just be that your ported SVS is blending better with your mains than the Sealed KEF did, it's impossible to know without measuring each individually and then summed to see what's going on.

I'm not disagreeing about the Kef sub distortion but it goes back to the horsepower analogy, it obviously doesn't have enough for your SPL levels, room size and/or bass preferences. I just checked the specs of the 12b compared to my Polk PSW 505 and it's smaller and weighs less so I wouldn't expect it to be that good honestly. SVS makes good stuff but right now the Monolith subs seem to be the best bang for the buck.
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post #17832 of 18840 Old 06-05-2019, 05:07 PM
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The reason I question whether or not the two KEF Kube 12b's in question might be defective is that reports are the proprietary "iBX" (Intelligent Bass Extension) feature in it's amp should control any extraordinary movement that could result in damaging the driver.

If the reported horrible cacophony emitted was inherent to all of the Kube 12b's, I then wonder why it survived a review here on AVS with no mention of such behavior.

https://www.avsforum.com/review-kef-...-12-subwoofer/
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post #17833 of 18840 Old 06-06-2019, 03:04 PM
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Anyone using the CI130.2CR's (or CI130QR) for atmos height duty? I've got a 17x19 size basement theater with 7'9" ceilings and am hoping the 5.25" driver is sufficient for a room of that size. I know that not a lot of content is pushed to the height channels so I'm guessing it'll be fine but it'd be nice to hear from someone that's using them in a similar sized room.
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post #17834 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 01:45 AM
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Hey i have at setup With Kef Q100 Fronts and a Q200C as center and a SVS SB1000 Sub,
What will the recommendations be for the cut frequence , i was thinking about 80HZ for them all the XT32 recommend front (70Hz) and Center (60Hz)

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post #17835 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 09:55 AM
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Hey i have at setup With Kef Q100 Fronts and a Q200C as center and a SVS SB1000 Sub,
What will the recommendations be for the cut frequence , i was thinking about 80HZ for them all the XT32 recommend front (70Hz) and Center (60Hz)
I have an almost identical setup. For me 90hz seems to be the sweet spot for front & center and 100hz for surrounds. I've also tried 100 all around, but prefer 90 up front. I could get away with 80hz, but wouldn't go much lower than that with the Q100's.

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post #17836 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 09:58 AM
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I have an almost identical setup. For me 90hz seems to be the sweet spot for front & center and 100hz for surrounds. I've also tried 100 all around, but prefer 90 up front. I could get away with 80hz, but wouldn't go much lower than that with the Q100's.


My Q100 also do better at 90 than 80. I also plug the ports.


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post #17837 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 10:08 AM
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My Q100 also do better at 90 than 80. I also plug the ports.


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I felt mine sounded congested with the port plugs, but that when I first got them. I've bought a better sub, reconfigured the room and upgraded the AVR. Maybe I should give it another shot. Digger out the darn box may be a challenge though.

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post #17838 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 10:09 AM
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I felt mine sounded congested with the port plugs, but that when I first got them. I've bought a better sub, reconfigured the room and upgraded the AVR. Maybe I should give it another shot. Digger out the darn box may be a challenge though.


I feel like I had distortion at high levels with the plugs out. YMMV.


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post #17839 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 11:53 AM
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Thanks i Will try with the 90hz

Any of you bi wire the q100 ?
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post #17840 of 18840 Old 06-07-2019, 12:36 PM
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Thanks i Will try with the 90hz

Any of you bi wire the q100 ?
Bi-wiring/Bi-amping will not provide any noticeable improvements to sound quality. You're better off using the back surround terminal for height/atmos channels.

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post #17841 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 07:47 AM
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I would be more then happy to demonstrate this.
Reading about this outside of AVS, I find cases other people with this, or other subs experiencing similar issues.

Sub just cant handle volume levels, and the driver looses its composure and start flopping, making noise like its gonna break.

I just find it unacceptable for a $1000 sub.

I had cheap polks and energy subs and havent experienced it (granted, i havent played them in this setup and receiver) I mean they were plain xhit to begin with.

Kef is okay for some low volume night tv show watching, but for movies/effects. Nope.

I wish i had someone with rew and mic to do some measurements, as I cant justify spending money on that that i wouldnt rven know how to use or what to look at measurement wise
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post #17842 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 09:51 AM
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Last week in Seattle area there was a Kef event hosted by my dealer where Johan Coorg of Kef was the guest speaker. It was nice to listen directly from him instead of YouTube. He played quite a few hires tracks on blade 2's which blew all our minds. He was using the new krell amps and he had nice things to say about the new krell. It seems hagel amps are the ref.they use at Kef. He balanced a coin on the edge of one of the blade and played heavy bass tracks which recorded at 78db on the sound meter but the coin didn't fall even though the doors were rattling. I was thinking of R11 to replace barely a year old q950 and now I am trying to justify blade 2.

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post #17843 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 10:08 AM
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I would be more then happy to demonstrate this.
Reading about this outside of AVS, I find cases other people with this, or other subs experiencing similar issues.

Sub just cant handle volume levels, and the driver looses its composure and start flopping, making noise like its gonna break.

I just find it unacceptable for a $1000 sub.

I had cheap polks and energy subs and havent experienced it (granted, i havent played them in this setup and receiver) I mean they were plain xhit to begin with.

Kef is okay for some low volume night tv show watching, but for movies/effects. Nope.

I wish i had someone with rew and mic to do some measurements, as I cant justify spending money on that that i wouldnt rven know how to use or what to look at measurement wise
You can't expect high output from a 300w sealed sub. I think they focused more on sound quality than output capability, though going with a bigger amp and lower extension capability to be able to compete with the SVS-SB-2000 at similar price point wouldn't be a bad idea.

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post #17844 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 12:47 PM
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Of course I can expect for sub to work properly.
How come svs pb1000 with also 300w has no problems.
Or bic f12 which is I would dare to say on par, actually even better as it has no problems playing stable without issues.
I have a few movies where i test subs/bas and this is first sub that lacks

I will probably sell it and go back to svs, sb3000 this time. But they r just hard to find in canada for decent price.
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post #17845 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 12:57 PM
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Of course I can expect for sub to work properly.
How come svs pb1000 with also 300w has no problems.
Or bic f12 which is I would dare to say on par, actually even better as it has no problems playing stable without issues.
I have a few movies where i test subs/bas and this is first sub that lacks

I will probably sell it and go back to svs, sb3000 this time. But they r just hard to find in canada for decent price.
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post #17846 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 01:19 PM
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Of course I can expect for sub to work properly.
How come svs pb1000 with also 300w has no problems.
Or bic f12 which is I would dare to say on par, actually even better as it has no problems playing stable without issues.
I have a few movies where i test subs/bas and this is first sub that lacks

I will probably sell it and go back to svs, sb3000 this time. But they r just hard to find in canada for decent price.
Again, Ported subs will have higher output below 35hz. My Bic F-12 gave me more TR and bone chilling effects and is only 150w rms. The problem with the bic is that it's boomy and didn't sound good at all musically. Based on your disappointment with the sealed Kef sub, you'd be better off going with either a PB-2000/3000 or Paradigm Defiance X12 if you want bone crushing TR. You can also get a Rhytmik LV12F for about $850 (CDN) though you may want to get a quote to verify price.

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post #17847 of 18840 Old 06-08-2019, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack99 View Post
Last week in Seattle area there was a Kef event hosted by my dealer where Johan Coorg of Kef was the guest speaker. It was nice to listen directly from him instead of YouTube. He played quite a few hires tracks on blade 2's which blew all our minds. He was using the new krell amps and he had nice things to say about the new krell. It seems hagel amps are the ref.they use at Kef. He balanced a coin on the edge of one of the blade and played heavy bass tracks which recorded at 78db on the sound meter but the coin didn't fall even though the doors were rattling. I was thinking of R11 to replace barely a year old q950 and now I am trying to justify blade 2.

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thanks for the update on his visit. I am on the wrong side of the big water and it’s just too long a drive for a few hours playing. I’m sure happy with my 7 LS50s in my HT system. I’ve heard the Blade 2a, and agree with you that if you’re thinking of the top tier Rs that the Blade 2s make better sense. Those new Krell amps look like they are worth a look. I’ve been lusting for the Hegel amps, glad to know that they are the Kef ref amp. What were they using for sources?

Again, thanks for posting.

Best, Chris

Best, Chris
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post #17848 of 18840 Old 06-09-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ChristopherP View Post
thanks for the update on his visit. I am on the wrong side of the big water and it’s just too long a drive for a few hours playing. I’m sure happy with my 7 LS50s in my HT system. I’ve heard the Blade 2a, and agree with you that if you’re thinking of the top tier Rs that the Blade 2s make better sense. Those new Krell amps look like they are worth a look. I’ve been lusting for the Hegel amps, glad to know that they are the Kef ref amp. What were they using for sources?



Again, thanks for posting.



Best, Chris
The source was mainly from HD through Mac and bryston dac but he did have roon with tidal and qobuz. He played few tracks initially from tidal and then from local hi-res which some Dutch firm records with 5 blades and I (non audiofile) could make out the diff. He played Sinatra, Cash, Zeppelin among others and even at high volumes it was not at all painful at 4ft from blades. He did mention that they really want to come out with active ref or blades in the next version with the success of ls50w and lsx. I was not aware that the amps in ls50w and lsx are made by Kef internally instead of outsourcing.

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post #17849 of 18840 Old 06-09-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kjack99 View Post
The source was mainly from HD through Mac and bryston dac but he did have roon with tidal and qobuz. He played few tracks initially from tidal and then from local hi-res which some Dutch firm records with 5 blades and I (non audiofile) could make out the diff. He played Sinatra, Cash, Zeppelin among others and even at high volumes it was not at all painful at 4ft from blades. He did mention that they really want to come out with active ref or blades in the next version with the success of ls50w and lsx. I was not aware that the amps in ls50w and lsx are made by Kef internally instead of outsourcing.

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Thanks for the reply. Interesting sources, not surprising though considering that he can use the same music reliably from meet to meet no matter where he is geographically. Amazing world we live in. Any comments about the rest of the chain? Did they plug in any of the other Kefs? Any discussion of the LS50w followon moving toward the LSX style, or updates? Self Powered Blades, now that’s a real thought. I’d heard both, that the amps were internally developed and outsourced. I suspect some parts came from outside, but the voicing is so much Kef, that I was leaning toward internal development. Nice to have that cleared up. Internally developed just makes more sense to me. For my 7.2.4 system, I bought my passive LS50s before the wireless speakers came out. I’m using Yamaha vintage C2/M4 for the L/R (stereo) and a RX-A3060 for center and surround duty, sounds very good. Having the front presence speakers timbre match the L/C/R really makes for an entertaining soundstage using the 9 channel stereo setting on the AVR. Balanced right it puts the music about 4 feet in the air with all the imaging the Kefs can do. I bet the blades could do that all by themselves. I am sorry to have missed the visit.
Again, thanks for sharing.

Best, Chris
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post #17850 of 18840 Old 06-09-2019, 11:20 AM
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I use the Channel Level Adjust since it allows you to adjust independently for different sources. I bump mine up 2.5db after calibration for music only. I think Subwoofer Level Adjust is a global change.
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They pretty much both do the same thing and can be turned on and off as desired. The tone control is more of an on the fly adjustment.
Ended up doing a new calibration after finally getting my stands for the Q150s. I also was able to angle the center up using the isolation pads and put a rug down. I am using the Channel Level Adjust for the subs. Thanks again for the tips.

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