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post #17881 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
I currently play through the Denon directly and it has given me the highest quality this far. From everything I've read while Denon does support Tidal it does not support MQA and thus you are getting a traditional FLAC file. Which does to me at least sound better than when I use Google Play Music or even Tidal through my Chromecast connected to my AVR. So that is what has me interested in the format.

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I think you have it correct. It is not official MQA, but a 24/44 or 24/48 FLAC file. I am doing the same thing with my Yamaha AVR and I agree those files on average sound better than the standard 16/44.

Alot of people get the Bluesound Node 2i next to get full MQA decoding. But as you probably know there are many ways to do it.

I'm looking at getting the Arcam SA30 when it is released this fall, or possibly the NAD C658 (hooked up to my AVR initially then possibly a good power amp later on).

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080
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post #17882 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
I think you have it correct. It is not official MQA, but a 24/44 or 24/48 FLAC file. I am doing the same thing with my Yamaha AVR and I agree those files on average sound better than the standard 16/44.



Alot of people get the Bluesound Node 2i next to get full MQA decoding. But as you probably know there are many ways to do it.



I'm looking at getting the Arcam SA30 when it is released this fall, or possibly the NAD C658 (hooked up to my AVR initially then possibly a good power amp later on).
Is there any benefit to something like the NAD C658 if you're not going to connect other sources to it over the Node 2i?

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post #17883 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Is there any benefit to something like the NAD C658 if you're not going to connect other sources to it over the Node 2i?

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The main benefit of the C658 other than it fully decodes MQA is that it has Dirac room correction. Dirac and the MQA DAC are the main reasons I would get it. It is also a pre-amp so it could be used as a pre-amp, MQA DAC, music streamer, and Dirac live room correction.

If I went with the C658 I'd some time later add a powerful 2 channel amp to it for high quality 2.0 or 2.2 channel music listening.

If you think about it, the Node 2i MQA DAC is $500, Dirac is at least $500 (with DDRC24 and UMIK-1) and in addition to those powerful features you have a pre-amp and music streamer. Plus there's lots more function if you check it out on NAD's site.

One interesting thing is that there are some upset customers because NAD sold it quite a few months ago without Dirac functional so quite a few of them turned them back in sick of waiting. They literally just implemented it yesterday in a firmware update. Some in the C658 forum like it without Dirac and kept it. Check out the NAD C658 owners thread for further info.


So there are some of these "open box" for less than the new price of $1500. Like $1200. That's alot of features for the price.
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post #17884 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
The main benefit of the C658 other than it fully decodes MQA is that it has Dirac room correction. Dirac and the MQA DAC are the main reasons I would get it. It is also a pre-amp so it could be used as a pre-amp, MQA DAC, music streamer, and Dirac live room correction.



If I went with the C658 I'd some time later add a powerful 2 channel amp to it for high quality 2.0 or 2.2 channel music listening.



If you think about it, the Node 2i MQA DAC is $500, Dirac is at least $500 (with DDRC24 and UMIK-1) and in addition to those powerful features you have a pre-amp and music streamer. Plus there's lots more function if you check it out on NAD's site.



One interesting thing is that there are some upset customers because NAD sold it quite a few months ago without Dirac functional so quite a few of them turned them back in sick of waiting. They literally just implemented it yesterday in a firmware update. Some in the C658 forum like it without Dirac and kept it. Check out the NAD C658 owners thread for further info.





So there are some of these "open box" for less than the new price of $1500. Like $1200. That's alot of features for the price.
Lots of great info. I did see the Dirac Room Correction on there and will definitely check out that thread. One question I would ask is how does something like that work if it is being used as a pre and I'm connecting it to one of the inputs on my AVR. Does the Dirac still have any effect or would it conflict with the Audyssey Room Correction for my AVR? I guess you could use the Dirac Correction and put the AVR in Pure Mode. But I have gotten quite fond of using DTS:Neural when listening to music.

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post #17885 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Lots of great info. I did see the Dirac Room Correction on there and will definitely check out that thread. One question I would ask is how does something like that work if it is being used as a pre and I'm connecting it to one of the inputs on my AVR. Does the Dirac still have any effect or would it conflict with the Audyssey Room Correction for my AVR? I guess you could use the Dirac Correction and put the AVR in Pure Mode. But I have gotten quite fond of using DTS:Neural when listening to music.

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Good question. I re-read your responses in this thread plus you already like your music with your AVR then the Node 2i is probably all you need. Especially if you like that DTS:Neural DSP for music. You don't want to upset your Audio Nirvana! Of course there's other MQA DAC's that are more expensive and may sound better. Like: https://www.teac-audio.eu/en/product...05-149454.html

The C658 if I chose it would be to have it for an eventual separates system. In the mean time I'd plug the pre-outs into the L/R analog ins on my AVR and run in Pure mode as you say to keep ther Dirac separate from my Yamaha YPAO room correction. My goal is to get Dirac into my 2.0 or 2.2 channel music listening. All this said it will proably be easier to just wait on the Arcam SA30 and use it's MQA and Dirac capabilities plus HT bypass on top of my AVR.

You're correct that you have to use the analog out's of an MQA DAC to analog in's of a receiver/amplifier to get the full MQA decode.

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080

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post #17886 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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I personally love it, I bought the NAD C658 which has the full MQA and I pretty much exclusively listen to Tidal Masters it just sounds better and there is more content dropping all the time. I have listened to a lot of older recordings which I have owned on LP, CD, 8 track, and cassette, listening in MQA is like hearing them for the first time. I hear something in a recording I never heard before on a daily basis, this is the best stereo I have ever owned so I am sure that is a contributing factor but MQA sounds fantastic. I have noticed that many of the British artist stuff is dramatically better, I really do not think most of that stuff was the original masters over the years. Now if they would just get the Pink Floyd stuff in MQA...... KEF R700's to stay on topic
In case you weren't aware, as of yesterday your C658 now has Dirac Live available!

I have it on my NAD M10 (also a two-channel unit) and it's terrific. Because I'd paid the $99 upgrade fee to full Dirac Live (the free version with these is limited to 500hz) with my NAD T758 AV receiver, that also transferred with the M10.

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post #17887 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
In case you weren't aware, as of yesterday your C658 now has Dirac Live available!

I have it on my NAD M10 (also a two-channel unit) and it's terrific. Because I'd paid the $99 upgrade fee to full Dirac Live (the free version with these is limited to 500hz) with my NAD T758 AV receiver, that also transferred with the M10.
I'm very curious to hear reports on how the C658 sounds with Dirac... There was mixed reviews, postive and negative, in the C658 owners thread without Dirac in use.

The first one they said the'r room was already pretty good so Dirac wasn'tcorrecting much..

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post #17888 of 18994 Old 06-12-2019, 05:53 PM
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My dealer has told me that their demo M10 seems better with the basic version of Dirac Live than the full version I have.

Maybe sometime in the future I'll try calibrating mine (running KEF LS50's in my office) with a 500hz limit to hear how it sounds. For now, the full version really helped as my office has a new hardwood floor and is livelier than it was with crappy-looking dark brown carpeting.

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post #17889 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tephnos View Post
So, it looks like richersounds in the UK do a 6-year warranty for 10% of the cost of the LS50w, but it includes the electronics inside as well and not just the speaker.

No brainer really, cemented my decision to grab some and try them out against my passives.
For US purchasers, most credit cards will extend the warranty on purchases made with the card, eg mine will double most warranties, up to the original purchase price.

There are also several 3rd party companies that will offer extended warranties on electronics for a similar 10% of purchase price. A googly search will show the best rated ones and you can contact them regarding their exact coverage of the LS50W. Note that LS50W need HQ to be shipped to Kef US in NJ for repairs, a local, licensed Kef repair shop will not be able to perform the service. When I shipped my LS50W for a warranty replacement of the amps, that cost about $100. These 3rd party warranties will cover that cost. So, if you think you'll have to have them repaired twice, then it's probably worth it. I haven't had any issues with mine after the original repair, though.

Another option is to move to Hong Kong. Kef HK has a 2 year warranty on the LS50W, with an option to tack on an additional 2 years for $125.

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post #17890 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Lots of great info. I did see the Dirac Room Correction on there and will definitely check out that thread. One question I would ask is how does something like that work if it is being used as a pre and I'm connecting it to one of the inputs on my AVR. Does the Dirac still have any effect or would it conflict with the Audyssey Room Correction for my AVR? I guess you could use the Dirac Correction and put the AVR in Pure Mode. But I have gotten quite fond of using DTS:Neural when listening to music.

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If you get a C658 just get an Emotiva A300 amp and be done, they are $400 and built like a tank, if you are a vet you get 10% discount as well.

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post #17891 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 12:14 PM
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I'm thinking of either T-101 or 301 to mount on either side of a projection screen for HT, not music. Are the 301s worth the exert cost?
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post #17892 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 01:06 PM
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KEFs without DEQ

Hi guys,

I've been recently running my Q950s without DEQ at 80hz for music and using the tone controls on my Denon adding +6db for bass and non for treble. Real adds some nice mid bass above the crossover frequency especially for pre 2000s music. Curious if anyone else is running the same and what were your impressions.
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I'm thinking of either T-101 or 301 to mount on either side of a projection screen for HT, not music. Are the 301s worth the exert cost?
Depends upon your distance from them and the volume. Given that it's a projection screen, the room is probably large enough that yes, the extra expense of going with T301's is definitely worth the money.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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I currently have a pair of Q300 and Q100 as a center upstairs with SVS PB 1000 running off Anthem MRX520. I want a smaller footprint and I like the Rear port. Does the q150 sound much different than the Q 100? I have not heard the new series. Thanks
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post #17895 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbirney View Post
I currently have a pair of Q300 and Q100 as a center upstairs with SVS PB 1000 running off Anthem MRX520. I want a smaller footprint and I like the Rear port. Does the q150 sound much different than the Q 100? I have not heard the new series. Thanks
No, not much different. I feel they have smoother, more extended highs, and a little less mid-bass bump than the Q100 they replace.

I do like the Q150 better, if one can deal with the rear port!

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #17896 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 09:47 PM
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Im just saying that pb1000 was better sub, and it costs substabtially less.

Sb2000 would 1000% sound better then 12b.

Sb3000 is on a diferent level then all mentioned here.
I said it before, I will say it for as long as I have a pair of Kube 10b subs in my main system - I was not able to hear any distortion no matter how loud I tried to get. I went once to the extreme when the system was so loud and subs were shaking everything I almost started laying bricks in my pants. Kube subs never got any of the tones they were playing wrong. I also have a single Kube 12b which is in the basement accompanying a pair of R300s. That one, too, I would never hesitate to recommend to anyone, including my best friend.
And I used to be an owner of a pair of SVS subs. Those never were as punchy and accurate as Kube subs. YMMV.

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post #17897 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 10:07 PM
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I said it before, I will say it for as long as I have a pair of Kube 10b subs in my main system - I was not able to hear any distortion no matter how loud I tried to get. I went once to the extreme when the system was so loud and subs were shaking everything I almost started laying bricks in my pants. Kube subs never got any of the tones they were playing wrong. I also have a single Kube 12b which is in the basement accompanying a pair of R300s. That one, too, I would never hesitate to recommend to anyone, including my best friend.

And I used to be an owner of a pair of SVS subs. Those never were as punchy and accurate as Kube subs. YMMV.
I could bet you money I would make it loose it.
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post #17898 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 10:27 PM
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I could bet you money I would make it loose it.
I bet you would, but I still need my hearing intact and the house where it stands. After all, I am more after sound quality than how loud I could push the system. If and when I want to hear something that may shake every cell in my body, I go to a movie theater (prefer movies in XDX or IMAX)

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post #17899 of 18994 Old 06-13-2019, 10:31 PM
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So why do you wanna convince me that they are fine?

Mine is fine too when I play at Volume 40-50. When I go to 60-65 then game over when theres lots of bass in scenes. I font want to even try at reference levels. (80)
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So why do you wanna convince me that they are fine?

Mine is fine too when I play at Volume 40-50. When I go to 60-65 then game over when theres lots of bass in scenes. I font want to even try at reference levels. (80)
I get close to 0 (also known as reference level on Yamaha AVENTAGE receivers) and still have +15dB on the scale to go higher, but as I said it goes plenty loud and the subs keep their composure, no distortion in the bass whatsoever. What you do with your gear is totally up to you.
Since you wanted to express your opinion about Kube subs, I thought I should say about my experience, too. So I did.

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KEF Reference Series R700

Hi,



I see that the reference series are being priced at $1,099 each by KEF. Are they being discontinued? I wanted to buy but the center channels aren't widely available yet.



Thanks,

Sampinto
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Hi, I see that the reference series are being priced at $1,099 each by KEF. Are they being discontinued? I wanted to buy but the center channels aren't widely available yet.
You must mean something other than the reference series. The Ref 1s with stands are the best part of $10K, and the price goes up for Ref 3 and nearer $20K for Ref 5.
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Hi,



I see that the reference series are being priced at $1,099 each by KEF. Are they being discontinued? I wanted to buy but the center channels aren't widely available yet.



Thanks,
I see that Kef Direct has R700 (open box) for $1099/each. This is a the model that was just replaced by the R7. While the new model sounds better, that is quite a bargain for a great sounding speaker. I absolutely love my pair. The matching centers (R200c and R600C) might be a little harder to find at an equally good price, especially in the matching color.

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post #17904 of 18994 Old 06-14-2019, 05:36 PM
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Hi,
I see that the reference series are being priced at $1,099 each by KEF. Are they being discontinued? I wanted to buy but the center channels aren't widely available yet.
Thanks,
Quote:
Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
I see that Kef Direct has R700 (open box) for $1099/each. This is a the model that was just replaced by the R7. While the new model sounds better, that is quite a bargain for a great sounding speaker. I absolutely love my pair. The matching centers (R200c and R600C) might be a little harder to find at an equally good price, especially in the matching color.

Yup, this series got discontinued around the start of 2019. I didn't find out this info until around march when I started researching speakers when I was looking to upgrade, and as pn56Matt said, it was a huge pain in the ass trying to find the R600c in gloss black to match the R300's I picked up. I ended up finding the R300's slightly used (4 months old) from a guy who was also going to upgrade to the R700's.



Long story short- after emailing numerous stores/retailers I found an open box 600c across country, they packaged it poorly, and damaged the corner of it. Luckily it's the rear of the corner out of sight, and I was only charged $99 CND for it. The white versions were easier to find at the time, but this was a couple months ago now. I wanted the R600c specifically since it has the 6.5" drivers that match the R300's/R700's compared to the R200c. If that doesn't matter to you as much, you COULD go with the new refreshed version which is the R2C... but it only has 5.25" drivers and won't be at a discounted price. If you want an R600c specifically, I would recommend looking to see if you can find one on the used market, eBay, etc. For instance I saw one pop up (shortly after I had gotten mine, and it sold fairly quickly) on the site I got my R300's through.

Panasonic EZ1000 65" OLED / Panasonic DMP UB400 / NAD T758v3 / Nvidia Shield TV
5.1.2 speaker setup - KEF R300 / R600c / Q50a / Focal Chorus SR800V / HSU ULS-15 mk2
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post #17905 of 18994 Old 06-14-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
I see that Kef Direct has R700 (open box) for $1099/each. This is a the model that was just replaced by the R7. While the new model sounds better, that is quite a bargain for a great sounding speaker. I absolutely love my pair. The matching centers (R200c and R600C) might be a little harder to find at an equally good price, especially in the matching color.
Damn, I finally decided to upgrade from my Emotiva ERTs and then bummer... Thank you very much for the information!

Sampinto

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post #17906 of 18994 Old 06-14-2019, 06:09 PM
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Yup, this series got discontinued around the start of 2019. I didn't find out this info until around march when I started researching speakers when I was looking to upgrade, and as pn56Matt said, it was a huge pain in the ass trying to find the R600c in gloss black to match the R300's I picked up. I ended up finding the R300's slightly used (4 months old) from a guy who was also going to upgrade to the R700's.



Long story short- after emailing numerous stores/retailers I found an open box 600c across country, they packaged it poorly, and damaged the corner of it. Luckily it's the rear of the corner out of sight, and I was only charged $99 CND for it. The white versions were easier to find at the time, but this was a couple months ago now. I wanted the R600c specifically since it has the 6.5" drivers that match the R300's/R700's compared to the R200c. If that doesn't matter to you as much, you COULD go with the new refreshed version which is the R2C... but it only has 5.25" drivers and won't be at a discounted price. If you want an R600c specifically, I would recommend looking to see if you can find one on the used market, eBay, etc. For instance I saw one pop up (shortly after I had gotten mine, and it sold fairly quickly) on the site I got my R300's through.
I am in the same boat... Great prices every where for the floor standers but no center channell.

Sampinto
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post #17907 of 18994 Old 06-14-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Amidujusu89 View Post
I am in the same boat... Great prices every where for the floor standers but no center channell.

One thing you might be willing to do if you can also find a deal on a pair of R300's, either through KEF or used, is to use one of those as your center channel if your speaker placement setup allows (standing vertically) and sell the other one. I could see someone else in the same position as you that might want to use an R300 as a center.

Panasonic EZ1000 65" OLED / Panasonic DMP UB400 / NAD T758v3 / Nvidia Shield TV
5.1.2 speaker setup - KEF R300 / R600c / Q50a / Focal Chorus SR800V / HSU ULS-15 mk2

Last edited by sb01gt; 06-14-2019 at 08:07 PM.
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post #17908 of 18994 Old 06-14-2019, 11:21 PM
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So why do you wanna convince me that they are fine?

Mine is fine too when I play at Volume 40-50. When I go to 60-65 then game over when theres lots of bass in scenes. I font want to even try at reference levels. (80)
SVS PB-1000: 300W RMS (720Wpeak) Low end extension 19hz
Kef Kube12: 300W RMS (Peak not given) Low end extension 22hz

As I've said in previous posts, the ported sub has the clear advantage below 35hz for output levels. Even the 500W RMS SVS SB-2000 can't match the low end TR of the PB-1000. If movies is the main use, a ported sub will be better suited for the task. Low end capability has nothing to do with sound quality. My Bic F-12 has more TR at the low end, but does not even come close to the SB-2000 in sound quality. I've never heard Kef Kube subs so I have no opinion to offer on whether the Kube 12 or SVS sounds better. I'm quite happy with my SB-2000, but will admit that I miss the low end TR for movies.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #17909 of 18994 Old 06-15-2019, 10:05 AM
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Damn, I finally decided to upgrade from my Emotiva ERTs and then bummer... Thank you very much for the information!
I upgraded from a Paradigm sound bar. I originally went in to demo Q700s a couple years back, listened to the R300s and fell in love with them. However, when I took my wife back she ended up not liking the bookshelves, and telling me I should get the R700s and R200c. Of course Kef launched their new R series 18 months later, and I now have my eye on the R11s as my next big purchase.
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Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T9, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q100
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360


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post #17910 of 18994 Old 06-15-2019, 10:44 AM
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I upgraded from a Paradigm sound bar. I originally went in to demo Q700s a couple years back, listened to the R300s and fell in love with them. However, when I took my wife back she ended up not liking the bookshelves, and telling me I should get the R700s and R200c. Of course Kef launched their new R series 18 months later, and I now have my eye on the R11s as my next big purchase.
Your wife is most definitely smart, and a KEEPER!

Do whatever it takes to keep her happy!

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KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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