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post #17971 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alkaizer View Post
now you will open the door for R3!!

From reading reviews, R series would have more bass than LS50. For uniformity, i think R2c wouldnt match LS50 because of bass in HT. im i right?

for that and for uniformity, its better go LS50 LCR plus sub woofer or R3+R2c with no sub woofer

all agree?
No, I do not agree.

Sorry, but for home theater there is virtually no system that can really do "LFE" (Low Frequency Effects) of movie tracks without a subwoofer in play.

As for the center speakers, there is big differences in design between using a single LS50 as a center versus using an R2c. In practice, the aural differences are not as pronounced as the visual difference. I just happen to think the R2c is exceptionally smooth for dialogue because it's a true 3-way speaker and the two LF drivers work smoothly with a Uni-Q HF/MF coincident driver that isn't tremendously different than the one used in an LS50.
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post #17972 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Alkaizer View Post
now you will open the door for R3!!



From reading reviews, R series would have more bass than LS50. For uniformity, i think R2c wouldnt match LS50 because of bass in HT. im i right?



for that and for uniformity, its better go LS50 LCR plus sub woofer or R3+R2c with no sub woofer



all agree?
For HT, you need a sub for sure. No R series speaker will have enough bass to play explosions and low frequency rumble with authority.

Once you have a good sub or two, all you need is good speakers that can play well above 80 hz or so.

The only drawback with ls50s will be if you want to play them louder than what they are capable of. It is for this reason R2C center may work better as most sound will come from there in HT.
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post #17973 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Alkaizer View Post
now you will open the door for R3!!

From reading reviews, R series would have more bass than LS50. For uniformity, i think R2c wouldnt match LS50 because of bass in HT. im i right?

for that and for uniformity, its better go LS50 LCR plus sub woofer or R3+R2c with no sub woofer

all agree?
Three LS50's will give you uniformity, However the larger R3's and 200c will have better dynamics and fuller sound being 3 way speakers. Both setups would sound fantastic and definitely need a sub(s).

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post #17974 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 07:44 PM
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Just an update to my experience with the LS50w so far:

Clearly, the biggest difference with these compared to the LS50s is the DSP that results in higher bass output. That completely changes the way your brain perceives the sound output of this speaker and explains why so many say it sounds better. We are bias to louder, lower frequencies as a natural thing.

I am not entirely convinced at this point that you couldn't get something similar or better with a regular LS50 + a sub. There's no replacement for displacement after all, and forcing that tiny driver to pump out bass down to 40Hz will increase the Doppler effect on the higher frequencies - no way to avoid that.

You could point out the amp power and matching, etc. The problem is... whatever difference it makes seems extremely subtle to me if I can even detect it. Then again, I'd start riots in here with my opinion that properly built amps (especially digital ones) make sod all difference to the sound of a speaker (unless you need more power to fill a room, of course). I've yet to come across an amp that I have said 'yep, this changes the sound' and not concluded with 'my brain is just expecting a difference and thus I mildly perceive one'. The literature seems to back me up on that one but that's a debate for another time and place. The real secret sauce is room correction with stuff like Dirac Live, imo.

I don't think Ken is wrong by saying that his LS50 + sub + dirac live setup will trounce the LS50w. I entirely believe it, especially with the dirac.

The app is a bit wishy washy. It works, but it doesn't feel like a £2k product should. I don't mind the remote design but volume control on it is finnicky, with no way to see what the volume is except by ear. Problem is, there's a lot of volume steps and you can't configure the steps a button press moves the volume by. That can only be done on a phone.

For an all in one system it still has its benefits, but you'll lose the ability to update said protocols such as Bluetooth just by updating an amp or something, which is always something to take into account.

So for now, I am not sure I'll keep these. Only a week in though so still plenty of time for my mind to be changed. I will say they look fantastic - the blue drivers are classy as hell.
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post #17975 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tephnos View Post
Just an update to my experience with the LS50w so far:

Clearly, the biggest difference with these compared to the LS50s is the DSP that results in higher bass output. That completely changes the way your brain perceives the sound output of this speaker and explains why so many say it sounds better. We are bias to louder, lower frequencies as a natural thing.

I am not entirely convinced at this point that you couldn't get something similar or better with a regular LS50 + a sub. There's no replacement for displacement after all, and forcing that tiny driver to pump out bass down to 40Hz will increase the Doppler effect on the higher frequencies - no way to avoid that.
Exactly, I do something similar to Ken except I manually dial in my filters with REW and parametric EQ, it's a bigger pain but now that I'm happy with all the filters I don't have to mess with it. I use dual subs with a 4th order high pass at 100Hz, so not much bass is getting through, this allows me to crank them up with very litttle distortion.

LS50W are great for people who want simplicity, 2 channels only and not extreme listening levels but I think you can do better if you're willing to set them up properly with multiple subs, etc.

By the way, I think I read you really like the frosted black with blue drivers, if you end up going with the passives I have a nice set along with a black edition center. I was thinking about selling my blue drivers and grabbing another pair of black edition so they all match, if you're close enough to Cincinnati maybe we can work out a trade. The blue drivers are pretty rare in the passive version.
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post #17976 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tephnos View Post
Just an update to my experience with the LS50w so far:

Clearly, the biggest difference with these compared to the LS50s is the DSP that results in higher bass output. That completely changes the way your brain perceives the sound output of this speaker and explains why so many say it sounds better. We are bias to louder, lower frequencies as a natural thing.

I am not entirely convinced at this point that you couldn't get something similar or better with a regular LS50 + a sub. There's no replacement for displacement after all, and forcing that tiny driver to pump out bass down to 40Hz will increase the Doppler effect on the higher frequencies - no way to avoid that.

You could point out the amp power and matching, etc. The problem is... whatever difference it makes seems extremely subtle to me if I can even detect it. Then again, I'd start riots in here with my opinion that properly built amps (especially digital ones) make sod all difference to the sound of a speaker (unless you need more power to fill a room, of course). I've yet to come across an amp that I have said 'yep, this changes the sound' and not concluded with 'my brain is just expecting a difference and thus I mildly perceive one'. The literature seems to back me up on that one but that's a debate for another time and place. The real secret sauce is room correction with stuff like Dirac Live, imo.

I don't think Ken is wrong by saying that his LS50 + sub + dirac live setup will trounce the LS50w. I entirely believe it, especially with the dirac.

The app is a bit wishy washy. It works, but it doesn't feel like a £2k product should. I don't mind the remote design but volume control on it is finnicky, with no way to see what the volume is except by ear. Problem is, there's a lot of volume steps and you can't configure the steps a button press moves the volume by. That can only be done on a phone.

For an all in one system it still has its benefits, but you'll lose the ability to update said protocols such as Bluetooth just by updating an amp or something, which is always something to take into account.

So for now, I am not sure I'll keep these. Only a week in though so still plenty of time for my mind to be changed. I will say they look fantastic - the blue drivers are classy as hell.
I've never claimed that in any way. I think Dirac Live and good amps have the potential to do as a good a job as the LS50 Wireless, but only with careful before & after measurements and tweaking. That's because the LS50 Wireless are fully bi-amped, and the DSP handles all of what frequencies at what levels goes to the midrange and the tweeter. That's tough to beat.

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post #17977 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I've never claimed that in any way. I think Dirac Live and good amps have the potential to do as a good a job as the LS50 Wireless, but only with careful before & after measurements and tweaking. That's because the LS50 Wireless are fully bi-amped, and the DSP handles all of what frequencies at what levels goes to the midrange and the tweeter. That's tough to beat.
I was hyperboling your exact words, but you did at one point say you reckoned your system would likely beat the LS50w.

But as I already mentioned, I don't think the differences with bi amping and DSP are really as noticeable as people claim they are. It's all in the bass with these things.
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post #17978 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I've never claimed that in any way. I think Dirac Live and good amps have the potential to do as a good a job as the LS50 Wireless, but only with careful before & after measurements and tweaking. That's because the LS50 Wireless are fully bi-amped, and the DSP handles all of what frequencies at what levels goes to the midrange and the tweeter. That's tough to beat.
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I was hyperboling your exact words, but you did at one point say you reckoned your system would likely beat the LS50w.
There are benefits of the wireless version that can't be replicated by the passives, mostly the active crossovers and the fact that they can EQ based on their anechoic data and make them almost perfect. But I do agree with your analysis of the bass, there is only so much a 5" driver can do before distorting, I'd much rather divert the bass to subs and let the LS50 driver do midbass/midrange and basically act as a 3 way with the subs going.
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post #17979 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:47 PM
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Exactly, I do something similar to Ken except I manually dial in my filters with REW and parametric EQ, it's a bigger pain but now that I'm happy with all the filters I don't have to mess with it. I use dual subs with a 4th order high pass at 100Hz, so not much bass is getting through, this allows me to crank them up with very litttle distortion.

LS50W are great for people who want simplicity, 2 channels only and not extreme listening levels but I think you can do better if you're willing to set them up properly with multiple subs, etc.

By the way, I think I read you really like the frosted black with blue drivers, if you end up going with the passives I have a nice set along with a black edition center. I was thinking about selling my blue drivers and grabbing another pair of black edition so they all match, if you're close enough to Cincinnati maybe we can work out a trade. The blue drivers are pretty rare in the passive version.
I do indeed enjoy the blue look, but unfortunately I'm based in the UK.

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There are benefits of the wireless version that can't be replicated by the passives, mostly the active crossovers and the fact that they can EQ based on their anechoic data and make them almost perfect. But I do agree with your analysis of the bass, there is only so much a 5" driver can do before distorting, I'd much rather divert the bass to subs and let the LS50 driver do midbass/midrange and basically act as a 3 way with the subs going.
Active crossover doesn't mean much to me unless it makes an audible difference. To me... well, it just isn't. I did see a measured graph comparing the LS50 and the LS50w in the same postion and setup within a room. Obvious differences in bass strength but for the most part the speakers measured extremely similarly.

Of course, a lot of placement issues can be avoided with the DSP. Which I presume is why KEF market them as a lifestyle speaker for non audiophiles.

However, DSP or no DSP in these things, you really can't beat a proper room correction. I haven't used dirac live myself but I presume it is something similar to Genelec's system where you hold a mic in your listening position and it calibrates based on expected sound vs what it gets. It is a thing of pure magic.

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post #17980 of 19825 Old 06-22-2019, 08:53 PM
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I do indeed enjoy the blue look, but unfortunately I'm based in the UK.



Active crossover doesn't mean much to me unless it makes an audible difference. To me... well, it just isn't. I did see a measured graph comparing the LS50 and the LS50w. Obvious differences in bass strength but for the most part the speakers measured extremely similarly.
I'd have to compare them side by side and blind to really tell any real differences as well. I'd really love to measure the pre-out of the wireless to see exactly how they're EQ'ing the signal because I've seen the measurements you talk of and I've also seen these measurements:



which are definitely smoother than the passive version, that tells me they tamed the highs as well and not just the bass. I have a few cuts from 2-5k that tames the highs as well in my passives so I'm curious how it translates to what they have done with the wireless version. Either way, re-directing the bass in 5" 2 ways is going to sound better than playing them full range, I don't that is disputed.
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post #17981 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 03:58 AM
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There are benefits of the wireless version that can't be replicated by the passives, mostly the active crossovers and the fact that they can EQ based on their anechoic data and make them almost perfect. But I do agree with your analysis of the bass, there is only so much a 5" driver can do before distorting, I'd much rather divert the bass to subs and let the LS50 driver do midbass/midrange and basically act as a 3 way with the subs going.
Even towers can't match the bass output of a good sub(s). You can get away without a sub for 2 channel music with larger towers, but a sub is unavoidable with small bookshelf speaker whether passive or active. A cheap and/or poorly placed and setup sub can be detrimental, but can sound quite nice and seamless when done properly.

Audyssey is not as good as Dirac or ARC, but jumping up to audyssey XT32 from audyssey multi-eq did make a noticeable difference for me. I'll agree with @Tephnos that good room correction can make a big difference.
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post #17982 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 12:56 PM
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Even towers can't match the bass output of a good sub(s). You can get away without a sub for 2 channel music with larger towers, but a sub is unavoidable with small bookshelf speaker whether passive or active. A cheap and/or poorly placed and setup sub can be detrimental, but can sound quite nice and seamless when done properly.
I've decided on two setups in the same room: Ayre 5 Twenty series digital hub, preamp and amp driving KEF Ref 1s for music; and Cox TV, Oppo 205, and NAD Class D amps driving 6 LS50s for HT. There is no sharing between the two setups. After extensive listening to the music setup, I'll reserve the subs for HT, because the Ref 1s have satisfying LF for nearly all the classical, baroque and jazz music I enjoy. If I need a pipe organ fix, I can play an SACD using the Oppo, although the Ref 1s do a fair portrayal of pedal notes as well, just not the portrayal my Ref 107/2s were capable of presenting. I suspect the Velodyne HGS-15s will be able to do the more-felt-than-heard pedal notes as well as the 107/2s did.
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post #17983 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 01:19 PM
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Visions have the LS50's at $998(CDN) again and I'm seriously considering them as I missed the boat last time. I've heard them before but never been able to do a side by side vs Q100's. Yes they sounded nice and liked what I heard, but the listening conditions were less than ideal so I maybe didn't experience their full potential. How much of an upgrade would they be over the Q100's with my current AVR & sub? Are they worth the $1000 expense?
I have them in my basket and ready to check out, just hesitating to hit "place order"
https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=160&sku=LS50

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post #17984 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 03:45 PM
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Visions have the LS50's at $998(CDN) again and I'm seriously considering them as I missed the boat last time. I've heard them before but never been able to do a side by side vs Q100's. Yes they sounded nice and liked what I heard, but the listening conditions were less than ideal so I maybe didn't experience their full potential. How much of an upgrade would they be over the Q100's with my current AVR & sub? Are they worth the $1000 expense?
I have them in my basket and ready to check out, just hesitating to hit "place order"
https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=160&sku=LS50
It depends on if you like the "edgy" highs of the Q100 or would rather have more laid back highs. I have a write-up of the Q150 and LS50 on here and later in the thread compared the Q100 as well, I personally thought they went LS50>Q150>Q100. The LS50 still has highs that are on the edge of being bright but they're still more mellow than the Q100. The LS50 are really an upgrade in every way over the Q100 but the biggest difference is the cabinet, it's like knocking on marble and you know how the Q cabinets feel. I also love the curved cabinet and think they look a lot better with the centered driver. Like the Q100, they sound their best with a sub or 2 and I'd say at least a 100Hz crossover, the more bass you can take off of them the better they'll sound and the louder they play without distortion.

I can't say if the dollar amount is worth it over the Q100 for you but I personally think they are a solid upgrade, especially at that price.
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post #17985 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 04:29 PM
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It depends on if you like the "edgy" highs of the Q100 or would rather have more laid back highs. I have a write-up of the Q150 and LS50 on here and later in the thread compared the Q100 as well, I personally thought they went LS50>Q150>Q100. The LS50 still has highs that are on the edge of being bright but they're still more mellow than the Q100. The LS50 are really an upgrade in every way over the Q100 but the biggest difference is the cabinet, it's like knocking on marble and you know how the Q cabinets feel. I also love the curved cabinet and think they look a lot better with the centered driver. Like the Q100, they sound their best with a sub or 2 and I'd say at least a 100Hz crossover, the more bass you can take off of them the better they'll sound and the louder they play without distortion.

I can't say if the dollar amount is worth it over the Q100 for you but I personally think they are a solid upgrade, especially at that price.
Pulled the trigger on them. Should be here in a few days and will post first impressions when I'm up and running.

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Pulled the trigger on them. Should be here in a few days and will post first impressions when I'm up and running.
enjoy..

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post #17987 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 04:58 PM
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Pulled the trigger on them. Should be here in a few days and will post first impressions when I'm up and running.
Knowing what you have and what you're getting, you're going to be impressed. However, you'll also have plenty of room for getting more out of them in the future.

This is just the start, but a REALLY good one!

Congrats!

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post #17988 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 05:37 PM
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Knowing what you have and what you're getting, you're going to be impressed. However, you'll also have plenty of room for getting more out of them in the future.

This is just the start, but a REALLY good one!

Congrats!
To be honest, I don't think an LS50 will be better than the Q200c for center duty. Aside from the occasional gathering when noone is really listening anyway, I only ever listen to music in 2.1 which is where I'll benefit most from them and the main focus of the upgrade. I think they the center and surrounds should blend in pretty well for HT use. My only concern now is if my AVR can do them justice. I wasn't expecting this pricing until boxing day so as this was an impromptu upgrade, not much gas left in the tank for an amp.

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post #17989 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
To be honest, I don't think an LS50 will be better than the Q200c for center duty. Aside from the occasional gathering when noone is really listening anyway, I only ever listen to music in 2.1 which is where I'll benefit most from them and the main focus of the upgrade. I think they the center and surrounds should blend in pretty well for HT use. My only concern now is if my AVR can do them justice. I wasn't expecting this pricing until boxing day so as this was an impromptu upgrade, not much gas left in the tank for an amp.
Of course you'll find the most benefit with 2.1 music. The Q200c will indeed blend just fine with the LS50's for surround sound work.

Which AVR are you running for now? It'll do fine, just that if you ever get the opportunity to upgrade you might be surprised at how the LS50's react.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red.
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post #17990 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 06:33 PM
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I'm thinking about my next upgrade for my mains for a mostly HT setup. Mostly used for TV/movies but the critical listening is music.

I bought the Q900 because they were on sale instead of the Q500 I was originally considering but I think that may have been a mistake because I only really enjoy them a lot well into the she-who-must-be-obeyed "forbidden volume zone".

I've been thinking about R3, but from checking the specs on Kef website, R3 is 87dB and LS50 is 85dB sensitivity.

Only 2dB difference?

How much better would R3 be than LS50 when combined with a sub as mains for low-medium volume movies/music?

I'm sure there'd be more to this than those numbers but can someone please tell me their ideas?

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.

Last edited by noobtv; 06-23-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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post #17991 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Of course you'll find the most benefit with 2.1 music. The Q200c will indeed blend just fine with the LS50's for surround sound work.

Which AVR are you running for now? It'll do fine, just that if you ever get the opportunity to upgrade you might be surprised at how the LS50's react.
Currently running a Denon X3400H. I know a seperate amp would be beneficial, but will have to stay on the back burner of while.

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post #17992 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post

How much better would R3 be than LS50 when combined with a sub as mains for low-medium volume movies/music?
With subs and only low to medium volume I don't think they're better at all. There are many benefits to having all of the sound coming from 1 point like the LS50, KEF talks about this here: https://us.kef.com/explore-kef/kef-innovation/uni-q

When you move to a 3 way you're giving up a bit of the point-source magic for reduced distortion at louder listening levels and usually a bit smoother response overall due to each driver being able to do what it does best in its intended range. I cross my LS50 over at 100Hz with a 4th order slope and I am comfortable cranking them to 90-95db in my smallish room, they don't sound distorted at all in my setup. If you stay under 85db with a 100Hz crossover, I personally don't think you'll gain much from the R3 but you should try to audition both because they sound different aside from the 2 way vs 3 way design. The LS50 are a bit more neutral, possibly bright while the R3 are a bit laid back in the highs in comparison.
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post #17993 of 19825 Old 06-23-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Visions have the LS50's at $998(CDN) again and I'm seriously considering them as I missed the boat last time. I've heard them before but never been able to do a side by side vs Q100's. Yes they sounded nice and liked what I heard, but the listening conditions were less than ideal so I maybe didn't experience their full potential. How much of an upgrade would they be over the Q100's with my current AVR & sub? Are they worth the $1000 expense?

I have them in my basket and ready to check out, just hesitating to hit "place order"

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=160&sku=LS50
There is no comparison. For 1000 CDN for two ls50, I would jump, but only if you intend to have a sub. I have both q100 and ls50 and I cannot tell you why, but ls50 is just much sweeter to listen to.

Last edited by SouthernCA; 06-24-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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post #17994 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
There is no comparison. For 1000 CDN for two ls50, I would jump, but only if you intend to have a sub. I have both q100 and ls50 and I can tell you why, but ls50 is just much sweeter to listen to.
Thank you @SouthernCA , @aarons915 and @KenM10759 for your input.

You guys confirming that they'll be a noticeable jump up in SQ has got me chomping at the bit with excitement like a 10 year old on Christmas morning. I know my sub (SVS SB-2000) is up to snuff and my AVR (Denon X-3400H) is high current so should do ok in stereo mode.

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post #17995 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Thank you @SouthernCA , @aarons915 and @KenM10759 for your input.



You guys confirming that they'll be a noticeable jump up in SQ has got me chomping at the bit with excitement like a 10 year old on Christmas morning. I know my sub (SVS SB-2000) is up to snuff and my AVR (Denon X-3400H) is high current so should do ok in stereo mode.
Great good luck. Sorry for the typo. I meant "I cannot tell why....."
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post #17996 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I'm thinking about my next upgrade for my mains for a mostly HT setup. Mostly used for TV/movies but the critical listening is music.

I bought the Q900 because they were on sale instead of the Q500 I was originally considering but I think that may have been a mistake because I only really enjoy them a lot well into the she-who-must-be-obeyed "forbidden volume zone".

I've been thinking about R3, but from checking the specs on Kef website, R3 is 87dB and LS50 is 85dB sensitivity.

Only 2dB difference?

How much better would R3 be than LS50 when combined with a sub as mains for low-medium volume movies/music?

I'm sure there'd be more to this than those numbers but can someone please tell me their ideas?
Depends on your listening habits and room. If you have a larger room to fill and like to listen loud, the R3's would likely fair better in those conditions. in a smaller room at reasonable listening levels, the LS50's would sound really nice. It's pretty much a 50/50 split for those who prefer one over the other so hard to say which sounds better. All I Know is that LS50's are considerably less expensive and sound quite nice. Kef has the LS50's as a flagship speaker on their website and I don't think it's purely for marketing purposes.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, Kef Kube 10B (X2) , Denon AVR-X3400H, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
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post #17997 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Pulled the trigger on them. Should be here in a few days and will post first impressions when I'm up and running.
Congrats!! Looking forward to reading about your impressions, especially compared to your q100s.
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post #17998 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
With subs and only low to medium volume I don't think they're better at all. There are many benefits to having all of the sound coming from 1 point like the LS50, KEF talks about this here: https://us.kef.com/explore-kef/kef-innovation/uni-q

When you move to a 3 way you're giving up a bit of the point-source magic for reduced distortion at louder listening levels and usually a bit smoother response overall due to each driver being able to do what it does best in its intended range. I cross my LS50 over at 100Hz with a 4th order slope and I am comfortable cranking them to 90-95db in my smallish room, they don't sound distorted at all in my setup. If you stay under 85db with a 100Hz crossover, I personally don't think you'll gain much from the R3 but you should try to audition both because they sound different aside from the 2 way vs 3 way design. The LS50 are a bit more neutral, possibly bright while the R3 are a bit laid back in the highs in comparison.
Would that be 90-95dB at 1m, or at listening position?

I can try measuring it later on, I'm assuming I have it with all speakers on as normal when measuring. I'll turn it up to a level slightly over what I'd normally listen at and see what the dB level is.

There's a bit of a mental block for me that a bookshelf could be enough, despite the stats and me knowing that 95% of our listening is at low-medium volume. It is a semi-large room and completely open on one side so feels larger.

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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Depends on your listening habits and room. If you have a larger room to fill and like to listen loud, the R3's would likely fair better in those conditions. in a smaller room at reasonable listening levels, the LS50's would sound really nice. It's pretty much a 50/50 split for those who prefer one over the other so hard to say which sounds better. All I Know is that LS50's are considerably less expensive and sound quite nice. Kef has the LS50's as a flagship speaker on their website and I don't think it's purely for marketing purposes.
Thanks.

I do usually prefer a brighter sound so LS50 might be better anyway because of the sound signature.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
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post #17999 of 19825 Old 06-24-2019, 06:46 PM
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Would that be 90-95dB at 1m, or at listening position?

I can try measuring it later on, I'm assuming I have it with all speakers on as normal when measuring. I'll turn it up to a level slightly over what I'd normally listen at and see what the dB level is.

There's a bit of a mental block for me that a bookshelf could be enough, despite the stats and me knowing that 95% of our listening is at low-medium volume. It is a semi-large room and completely open on one side so feels larger.



Thanks.

I do usually prefer a brighter sound so LS50 might be better anyway because of the sound signature.
I'm talking 90-95db at listening position, I personally don't really ever go over 85db, that is very loud to me. But yes it's a good idea to check your actual listening levels because medium to you may be pretty loud. I was the same way about bookshelves, I was always a tower go until I bought a bookshelf speaker to try out and they made my towers at the time sound like crap in comparison. If you have a KEF dealer close, an audition of both in store would be a good idea but based on what you've said so far I think the LS50 would be fine for you.
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post #18000 of 19825 Old 06-25-2019, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Would that be 90-95dB at 1m, or at listening position?

I can try measuring it later on, I'm assuming I have it with all speakers on as normal when measuring. I'll turn it up to a level slightly over what I'd normally listen at and see what the dB level is.

There's a bit of a mental block for me that a bookshelf could be enough, despite the stats and me knowing that 95% of our listening is at low-medium volume. It is a semi-large room and completely open on one side so feels larger.



Thanks.

I do usually prefer a brighter sound so LS50 might be better anyway because of the sound signature.
FWIW my Q100's are rated at [email protected] and get much louder than I can comfortably stand for more than a few minutes with plenty of gas left in the tank. Note that my room is on the small side (10X18), but have gotten no signs of strain or clipping. They do start sounding metallic, but I really have to push them beyond comfortable listening levels to get there. I do suspect I would have run into trouble sooner on the MV if I was running them full range. This was my lower end Denon 710 AVR. I haven't tried with the Denon X3400 as I see no point in doing so.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, Kef Kube 10B (X2) , Denon AVR-X3400H, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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