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post #18001 of 18844 Old 06-25-2019, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante172 View Post
I think the R7's are much better than the Q750s. I currently own a pair of Q750s and R7s. I ended up buying the R7s after trying to convince myself that I liked the Q750s. To be honest I could never warm up to their sound. I found them to be excessively bright no matter how much/little I toed them in. I also heard sibilance in human voices. Overall they sounded harsh to me. Maybe I was expecting too much from a floor stander in their price range? If you decide on going with the Q series I would suggest listening to the Q550s. In my opinion the Q series 5.25 driver sounds better than the 6.5 driver.

The R7's I absolutely love. They sound balanced/neutral. Human voices sound very natural and realistic. I don't hear any of the harshness or sibilance that I heard with the Q750s. They manage to be detailed speakers without being bright. They are truly great with any genre of music. They also make great Home Theater/2 Channel listening speakers. Yes they cost a lot more than the Q750s but they are also a lot better. I consider myself fortunate being able to own a pair of R7s.

That being said I would suggest auditioning all the above(if possible) before making your decision.

That isn't the case with the newer Q series.

While i agree that the previous gen Q series (at low to mid volumes) the 5 1/4" driver is better but the current gen Q950>Q750>Q550(this has been confirmed in numerous reviews *not user reviews)

As for your sibilance issues, I originally had that issue with the Q650C and it took a long/violent burn in to go away (1000+ hours)but I have 0 signs of sibilance with my new Q750's.
I'm beginning to feel that KEF may of had some issues with their early production. I'm just glad that it eventually went away on my Q650c.

Ignoring efficiency ratings the Q series have always been notoriously difficult to drive to get any kind of dynamics which isn't the case for the R series.
If you think about it it's almost as expensive to get a good sound out of the Q towers(total cost amp/receiver/speaker) than it is to get a good sound out of the R series.

My Q750's sound "ok" with my Denon avr-x1400h but they sound 10x times better through my yamaha A-S501 integrated amplifier and 100x better through my friends Yamaha A-S2100. I eventually plan on adding 3 outlaw monoblock amplifiers but i need a new receiver first. It's kind of unfortunate that you need to spend that kind of money on the Q series to bring them to life(dynamically) and is one of their biggest CON's Imo. I understand KEF's reason (major WAF) for using bass radiators since it makes them easier to tuck away/hide (although not recommended).

And there lies my love/frustration with KEF's Q series lol

I have no personal experience with the R series but everything i've read about them confirms they sound great with just about any receiver/amplifier.(obviously the higher quality the better). IMO that's one of the biggest strengths of the R series and i applaud the KEF engineer's for achieving this with the R series.

I'm hoping to grab a pair of R3's for critical listening but i'm a little hesitant since my local dealer only brings in the LS50's
At the moment I've narrowed it down to the LS50's vs the Revel Concerta3 m106's (trying to convince the dealer to bring in some R3's).

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #18002 of 18844 Old 06-25-2019, 06:48 PM
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Actually my Q100s are rated 86dB, so just slightly more than the LS50.

I might try out my Q100 rears as mains temporarily, just to test if I find the volume adequate.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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post #18003 of 18844 Old 06-25-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
That isn't the case with the newer Q series.



While i agree that the previous gen Q series (at low to mid volumes) the 5 1/4" driver is better but the current gen Q950>Q750>Q550(this has been confirmed in numerous reviews *not user reviews)



As for your sibilance issues, I originally had that issue with the Q650C and it took a long/violent burn in to go away (1000+ hours)but I have 0 signs of sibilance with my new Q750's.

I'm beginning to feel that KEF may of had some issues with their early production. I'm just glad that it eventually went away on my Q650c.



Ignoring efficiency ratings the Q series have always been notoriously difficult to drive to get any kind of dynamics which isn't the case for the R series.

If you think about it it's almost as expensive to get a good sound out of the Q towers(total cost amp/receiver/speaker) than it is to get a good sound out of the R series.



My Q750's sound "ok" with my Denon avr-x1400h but they sound 10x times better through my yamaha A-S501 integrated amplifier and 100x better through my friends Yamaha A-S2100. I eventually plan on adding 3 outlaw monoblock amplifiers but i need a new receiver first. It's kind of unfortunate that you need to spend that kind of money on the Q series to bring them to life(dynamically) and is one of their biggest CON's Imo. I understand KEF's reason (major WAF) for using bass radiators since it makes them easier to tuck away/hide (although not recommended).



And there lies my love/frustration with KEF's Q series lol



I have no personal experience with the R series but everything i've read about them confirms they sound great with just about any receiver/amplifier.(obviously the higher quality the better). IMO that's one of the biggest strengths of the R series and i applaud the KEF engineer's for achieving this with the R series.



I'm hoping to grab a pair of R3's for critical listening but i'm a little hesitant since my local dealer only brings in the LS50's

At the moment I've narrowed it down to the LS50's vs the Revel Concerta3 m106's (trying to convince the dealer to bring in some R3's).
I have not heard R3 but R300 were definitely no match for ls50.
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post #18004 of 18844 Old 06-25-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
I have not heard R3 but R300 were definitely no match for ls50.
How do you mean? Were R300s better or worse than LS50?

My brain refuses to believe a 2-way speaker could outperform a true 3-way one, granted they play within reasonable volume levels.

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2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A550, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.

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post #18005 of 18844 Old 06-25-2019, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jus32 View Post
How do you mean? Were R300s better or worse than LS50?



My brain refuses to believe a 2-way speaker could outperform a true 3-way one, granted they play within reasonable volume levels.
Well. In general a three way speaker is much better because with a dedicated woofer it can play below 100 hz. much better. There are other advantages as well.

But if you use a sub, that is not that relevant. And the money you save (by not buying a dedicated woofer) can be used in stiffening the cabinet, better cross over, smaller speaker size (also helps produce stiffer cabinet at a lower cost) and like @aarons915 1 mentioned earlier, there are distinct advantages by having all sound come out of the same center..

Ls50 also used a later generation uniQ driver than the older R300. That may not be relevant when comparing ls50 with R3.

The downside of ls50 is of course lower max SPL, lower sensitivity, and no bass to speak of without a sub.

Last edited by SouthernCA; 06-26-2019 at 04:15 AM.
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post #18006 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
That isn't the case with the newer Q series.

While i agree that the previous gen Q series (at low to mid volumes) the 5 1/4" driver is better but the current gen Q950>Q750>Q550(this has been confirmed in numerous reviews *not user reviews)

As for your sibilance issues, I originally had that issue with the Q650C and it took a long/violent burn in to go away (1000+ hours)but I have 0 signs of sibilance with my new Q750's.
I'm beginning to feel that KEF may of had some issues with their early production. I'm just glad that it eventually went away on my Q650c.

Ignoring efficiency ratings the Q series have always been notoriously difficult to drive to get any kind of dynamics which isn't the case for the R series.
If you think about it it's almost as expensive to get a good sound out of the Q towers(total cost amp/receiver/speaker) than it is to get a good sound out of the R series.

My Q750's sound "ok" with my Denon avr-x1400h but they sound 10x times better through my yamaha A-S501 integrated amplifier and 100x better through my friends Yamaha A-S2100. I eventually plan on adding 3 outlaw monoblock amplifiers but i need a new receiver first. It's kind of unfortunate that you need to spend that kind of money on the Q series to bring them to life(dynamically) and is one of their biggest CON's Imo. I understand KEF's reason (major WAF) for using bass radiators since it makes them easier to tuck away/hide (although not recommended).

And there lies my love/frustration with KEF's Q series lol

I have no personal experience with the R series but everything i've read about them confirms they sound great with just about any receiver/amplifier.(obviously the higher quality the better). IMO that's one of the biggest strengths of the R series and i applaud the KEF engineer's for achieving this with the R series.

I'm hoping to grab a pair of R3's for critical listening but i'm a little hesitant since my local dealer only brings in the LS50's
At the moment I've narrowed it down to the LS50's vs the Revel Concerta3 m106's (trying to convince the dealer to bring in some R3's).
I find that the Q100's (no first hand experience with the rest of the series) need to be in the "sweet spot" to really open up which in my room is -37 to -30 on the MV. Maybe a good seperate amp would change that, but how can one justify spending $1200 on an amp + another $700-800 on an AVR to drive $500 speakers. They do however sound really nice once you find the sweet spot. Now I can't wait till the LS50's get here.
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post #18007 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I find that the Q100's (no first hand experience with the rest of the series) need to be in the "sweet spot" to really open up which in my room is -37 to -30 on the MV. Maybe a good seperate amp would change that, but how can one justify spending $1200 on an amp + another $700-800 on an AVR to drive $500 speakers. They do however sound really nice once you find the sweet spot. Now I can't wait till the LS50's get here.
i agree and thats the only thing i dislike about the Q series. At the same time they do punch above their weight once they are fed some quality power IMO (the newer Q towers anyways), sealing the Uni-Q has a dramatic effect but it's not really worth it for the bookshelf speakers.

For 2 channel listening any integrated amplifier above the yamaha a-s501 or Nad c326bee will get the job done but for HT basic AVR's under $1000 sound anemic and most of them don't have pre-outs.


I almost picked up the R500's for $1700 CAD at the time i purchased the Q750's($1198) but since i already had the Q650c this was the cheapest route and I also didn't want to spend too much money on a dedicated HT room speakers.

I use my PC room for critical listening and that's where the LS50/Concerta3/R3 come in.. whenever i can make up my mind(i'll probably end up with all 3 LOL).

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #18008 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
i agree and thats the only thing i dislike about the Q series. At the same time they do punch above their weight once they are fed some quality power IMO (the newer Q towers anyways), sealing the Uni-Q has a dramatic effect but it's not really worth it for the bookshelf speakers.

For 2 channel listening any integrated amplifier above the yamaha a-s501 or Nad c326bee will get the job done but for HT basic AVR's under $1000 sound anemic and most of them don't have pre-outs.


I almost picked up the R500's for $1700 CAD at the time i purchased the Q750's($1198) but since i already had the Q650c this was the cheapest route and I also didn't want to spend too much money on a dedicated HT room speakers.

I use my PC room for critical listening and that's where the LS50/Concerta3/R3 come in.. whenever i can make up my mind(i'll probably end up with all 3 LOL).
For me the living room is both HT and music area. I could set up for 2 channel in the bedroom, but I'm not sure i like the idea of locking myself in the bedroom every time I feel like listening to music. Besides, I like listening to music while I'm on the computer as I'm doing right now.

I could get an Emotiva A300 for a reasonable price, but not convinced it would be any better than my Denon. Word on the street is that they inflate their specs like a lot of AVR companies do.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #18009 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 07:38 AM
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Im going to replace my q100 with either R500 or r700 the Price DIF is 500USD a pair what Will you recommended , i Will PLAY with a q200c and an svs sb1000

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post #18010 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 07:50 AM
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Im going to replace my q100 with either R500 or r700 the Price DIF is 500USD a pair what Will you recommended , i Will PLAY with a q200c and an svs sb1000


It depends on the size of your room and if you are planning to do any 2.0 listening. For small to medium sized room R500 would work just fine and would be a perfect match to your R200c. I own both, R500 and R700, and with the subs connected I can’t get the difference at my preferred listening volume. I played them at reference level without subs and R700 have a deeper sound. That’s my opinion.
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post #18011 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
For me the living room is both HT and music area. I could set up for 2 channel in the bedroom, but I'm not sure i like the idea of locking myself in the bedroom every time I feel like listening to music. Besides, I like listening to music while I'm on the computer as I'm doing right now.

I could get an Emotiva A300 for a reasonable price, but not convinced it would be any better than my Denon. Word on the street is that they inflate their specs like a lot of AVR companies do.
The A300 is ok but not worth it coming from your 3400H IMO . It would make a small difference during high action sequences when all 5 channels driven but thats about it(3400H pushes 97.6 @ 0.1% 8 ohms with 5 channels driven which is plenty for Q100's). Also the Q100 aren't that hard to drive so it would most likely be overkill. Your LS50's on the other hand is a different story lol.

*FYI i was surprisingly shocked at how well the NAD c326bee drives the LS50's in the demo room.

The problem with consumer feedback when it comes to amplifiers is that they don't even know what/why they're purchasing or how to assess the performance(and how to read specs properly). Most people judge their system by how "loud" it gets . They often think that louder = better. Many years ago I used to be one of them.

The most over-used (drives me crazy) is the simple argument I constantly see here is "speaker efficient / Wattage" (86db = 1w, 89db = 2w etc etc) while this is a start it's only scratching the surface of what an amplifier needs your speakers may have.

People rarely talk about capacitors, power supplies, resistance (2, 4, 6, 8 ohms etc) or dynamic performance. We all know that BASS is the most difficult/demanding frequency we can demand from our amps/receivers/speakers yet it's constantly ignored. Ultimately this all comes down to how efficient the speaker you're trying to push needs.

example MOST people would choose amplifier A over amplifier B

Amplifier A

Rated 140w of maximum power!!!(BIG 140w sticker on the box)

140w Maximum Power(8 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD)
100w 0.9% THD 20hz-20khz @ 8 ohms
High Dynamic Power/Channel (8/4/2 ohms) 125 W / 165 W / 180 W
power supply 175w

Amplifier B

Rated 80w (no stickers on the box)
80w 0.009% THD @ 20hz-20khz 8 ohms
Dynamic power: 8ohms = 145w | 4 ohms = 220w | 2 ohms = 290w
power supply 350w

But we all know that Amplifier B absolutely spanks! Amplifier A



I still consider myself a noob when it comes to understanding every aspect of an amplifier and i'm constantly trying to learn more on the topic.


*FYI pase22 I'm not saying that's how you rate your amps/equipment i'm just having a conversation and pointing out how most people review/evaluate amplifiers and AVR's.

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #18012 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
The A300 is ok but not worth it coming from your 3400H IMO . It would make a small difference during high action sequences when all 5 channels driven but thats about it(3400H pushes 97.6 @ 0.1% 8 ohms with 5 channels driven which is plenty for Q100's). Also the Q100 aren't that hard to drive so it would most likely be overkill. Your LS50's on the other hand is a different story lol.



*FYI i was surprisingly shocked at how well the NAD c326bee drives the LS50's in the demo room.



The problem with consumer feedback when it comes to amplifiers is that they don't even know what/why they're purchasing or how to assess the performance(and how to read specs properly). Most people judge their system by how "loud" it gets . They often think that louder = better. Many years ago I used to be one of them.



The most over-used (drives me crazy) is the simple argument I constantly see here is "speaker efficient / Wattage" (86db = 1w, 89db = 2w etc etc) while this is a start it's only scratching the surface of what an amplifier needs your speakers may have.



People rarely talk about capacitors, power supplies, resistance (2, 4, 6, 8 ohms etc) or dynamic performance. We all know that BASS is the most difficult/demanding frequency we can demand from our amps/receivers/speakers yet it's constantly ignored. Ultimately this all comes down to how efficient the speaker you're trying to push needs.



example MOST people would choose amplifier A over amplifier B



Amplifier A



Rated 140w of maximum power!!!(BIG 140w sticker on the box)



140w Maximum Power(8 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD)

100w 0.9% THD 20hz-20khz @ 8 ohms

High Dynamic Power/Channel (8/4/2 ohms) 125 W / 165 W / 180 W

power supply 175w



Amplifier B



Rated 80w (no stickers on the box)

80w 0.009% THD @ 20hz-20khz 8 ohms

Dynamic power: 8ohms = 145w | 4 ohms = 220w | 2 ohms = 290w

power supply 350w



But we all know that Amplifier B absolutely spanks! Amplifier A







I still consider myself a noob when it comes to understanding every aspect of an amplifier and i'm constantly trying to learn more on the topic.





*FYI pase22 I'm not saying that's how you rate your amps/equipment i'm just having a conversation and pointing out how most people review/evaluate amplifiers and AVR's.

"3400H pushes 97.6 @ 0.1% 8 ohms with 5 channels driven "

Where did you get this information from? I also have a 3500H and was looking for such info.
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post #18013 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
"3400H pushes 97.6 @ 0.1% 8 ohms with 5 channels driven "

Where did you get this information from? I also have a 3500H and was looking for such info.
here you go :

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

Denon/Marantz seem to be conservative with their power ratings honestly

soundandvision and audioholics seems to be the only site that does all channel tests although lately that haven't :S
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Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #18014 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 01:49 PM
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The downside of ls50 is of course lower max SPL, lower sensitivity, and no bass to speak of without a sub.
I don't really need high SPL and sensitivity is identical to my Q100's. I will be pairing them with an SVS SB-2000 as well. Multi channel performance for me is a distant 2nd. I have no doubt my AVR can handle the multi-channel duties and play at my desired levels. My AVR has plenty of power and is a high current amp. At best it'll be using 15-20w to drive the LS50'S at my desired levels. Just wondering how much improvement I should expect by adding a seperate.

Stupid Question, but can I add an integrated amp to current setup without having to do elaborate projects?

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post #18015 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I don't really need high SPL and sensitivity is identical to my Q100's. I will be pairing them with an SVS SB-2000 as well. Multi channel performance for me is a distant 2nd. I have no doubt my AVR can handle the multi-channel duties and play at my desired levels. My AVR has plenty of power and is a high current amp. At best it'll be using 15-20w to drive the LS50'S at my desired levels. Just wondering how much improvement I should expect by adding a seperate.



Stupid Question, but can I add an integrated amp to current setup without having to do elaborate projects?
In my experience, amps make the least amount of difference unless your current amp starts clipping at the volume you need or it is from a no name Chinese manufacturer (not properly designed).

Ls50 in place of Q100 or R300 will make the most difference. Next will be a good integration between speakers and sub. Next will be quality of room correction and finally preamp quality.
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post #18016 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 02:46 PM
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I was at the Minute Man Missile Site Visitor Center a week ago and the theater room used some KEF speakers, they were very shallow but sounded good. How on earth did high end speakers end up in a national park?

TV - Sony 65XBR-930e | Receiver - Yamaha RX-V577 | 4K player - Sony UBP-X700 | PS3 | Router - Asus RT-AC86U | SVS SB-2000 sub | Paradigm Monitor SE 6000F L/R | Paradigm Monitor SE 2000C center | Paradigm ADP-170 v.3 rears
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post #18017 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 03:35 PM
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Ls50 in place of Q100 or R300 will make the most difference. Next will be a good integration between speakers and sub. Next will be quality of room correction and finally preamp quality.
With some research and a lot of reading, this ^^^ seems like a general consensus. My room correction is pretty good, sub integration shouldn't be very difficult. My AVR isn't exactly cheap, but isn't flagship either. Still I'm feeling more confident that it can do the LS50's justice. Moving on!

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post #18018 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Kiler View Post
I was at the Minute Man Missile Site Visitor Center a week ago and the theater room used some KEF speakers, they were very shallow but sounded good. How on earth did high end speakers end up in a national park?
If they were wall-mounted and thin, chances are high that they were KEF T series. If they were in-wall, they could well have been true high-end speakers in the KEF Ci3160RL-THX or CI5160RL-THX

The T series (T101 or T301) are not what I consider "high end" though they are VERY good for their form factor. When something like a National Park puts together a visitor theater-type presentation auditorium, that whole installation would have gone out for bid, and awarded to the lowest bidder.

Speakers are generally just a small part of a theater installation. A complete job would be walls, floors, ceiling, seating, projection, screens, controls, and electronics. It would be well possible they used the better installed "architectural" series, and custom installers typically get those speakers at about 1/2 the cost of retail.
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post #18019 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 05:37 PM
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What are people's thoughts about using an LS50 on its side as a center speaker?

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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post #18020 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
What are people's thoughts about using an LS50 on its side as a center speaker?
Many do use them like that, no issues.

Others do prefer a true center speaker with woofers, midrange, and tweeter because they do the full range of human voices better. The KEF Uni-Q driver is ideal for center speaker use specifically because the midrange and tweeter act as a single source (like the human voice) and doesn't suffer comb effect.

If budget and space were no issue, I would likely choose an R2c over the LS50, even when paired with LS50 main L-R speakers.
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post #18021 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
With some research and a lot of reading, this ^^^ seems like a general consensus. My room correction is pretty good, sub integration shouldn't be very difficult. My AVR isn't exactly cheap, but isn't flagship either. Still I'm feeling more confident that it can do the LS50's justice. Moving on!
The Denon AVR3400H will do fine! You would need a few months with the LS50's and that AVR to detect what something like a Naim Uniti Star could do for the LS50's. Or an NAD M10.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18022 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Many do use them like that, no issues.

Others do prefer a true center speaker with woofers, midrange, and tweeter because they do the full range of human voices better. The KEF Uni-Q driver is ideal for center speaker use specifically because the midrange and tweeter act as a single source (like the human voice) and doesn't suffer comb effect.

If budget and space were no issue, I would likely choose an R2c over the LS50, even when paired with LS50 main L-R speakers.
Hense the reason I've decided to keep the Q200c with LS50's

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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
The Denon AVR3400H will do fine! You would need a few months with the LS50's and that AVR to detect what something like a Naim Uniti Star could do for the LS50's. Or an NAD M10.
The 3400H is going to have to do for a while and I'm sure it'll be just fine given the small space and sub being added. If I do get an amp later on it'll probably be the NAD C 268 or subsequent model. Mind you, I did promise myself I'm wasn't buying anything else for the rest of the year after the AVR upgrade. That worked out great!
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post #18023 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
What are people's thoughts about using an LS50 on its side as a center speaker?
I've been using 3 LS50 for awhile now, nothing is going to be more seamless than 3 identical speakers. Honestly if I didn't think the LS50's were capable of being a center, they aren't capable of being mains either, they do fine in both roles though.

If you need more output than the LS50's provide, I would still try to do 3 identical speakers and go with the R2c( or R200c if you can still get them) for all 3 channels. I would never go back to mismatched fronts, even though the KEF centers are better than other brands due to the UniQ midrange and low crossover point.
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post #18024 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Many do use them like that, no issues.

Others do prefer a true center speaker with woofers, midrange, and tweeter because they do the full range of human voices better. The KEF Uni-Q driver is ideal for center speaker use specifically because the midrange and tweeter act as a single source (like the human voice) and doesn't suffer comb effect.

If budget and space were no issue, I would likely choose an R2c over the LS50, even when paired with LS50 main L-R speakers.
Space isn't really an issue, almost anything is smaller than Q900/Q600! Budget also isn't a huge issue but I don't like throwing money away for little gain. Assuming R2c vs LS50 as a center is little gain.

I am seriously considering upgrading my Q900 to LS50, and I am thinking about what to do to upgrade my Q600 center to match.

Secondhand, a pair of LS50 goes for about AUD$950. With the R2c being AUD$1800 and no secondhand ones available, it would be a much cheaper option to just get a second pair of LS50 and use one as a center (I could even sell the other one).

I'm not really considering other centers than LS50 or R2c as from my understanding R200/R600 are more laid-back soundwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I've been using 3 LS50 for awhile now, nothing is going to be more seamless than 3 identical speakers. Honestly if I didn't think the LS50's were capable of being a center, they aren't capable of being mains either, they do fine in both roles though.

If you need more output than the LS50's provide, I would still try to do 3 identical speakers and go with the R2c( or R200c if you can still get them) for all 3 channels. I would never go back to mismatched fronts, even though the KEF centers are better than other brands due to the UniQ midrange and low crossover point.
Seems very odd/ugly having three multi-driver center speakers in front. I won't be doing that.

I would think the diffraction pattern would be odd.

Also, expensive. I could have r3/r2c and almost r5/r2c for the same cost as three r2c's.

I'm very happy with the tonal matching of Q900/Q600.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.

Last edited by noobtv; 06-26-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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post #18025 of 18844 Old 06-26-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Space isn't really an issue, almost anything is smaller than Q900/Q600! Budget also isn't a huge issue but I don't like throwing money away for little gain. Assuming R2c vs LS50 as a center is little gain.

I am seriously considering upgrading my Q900 to LS50, and I am thinking about what to do to upgrade my Q600 center to match.

Secondhand, a pair of LS50 goes for about AUD$950. With the R2c being AUD$1800 and no secondhand ones available, it would be a much cheaper option to just get a second pair of LS50 and use one as a center (I could even sell the other one).

I'm not really considering other centers than LS50 or R2c as from my understanding R200/R600 are more laid-back soundwise.



Seems very odd/ugly having three multi-driver center speakers in front. I won't be doing that.

I would think the diffraction pattern would be odd.

Also, expensive. I could have r3/r2c and almost r5/r2c for the same cost as three r2c's.

I'm very happy with the tonal matching of Q900/Q600.
Three R2Cs will indeed be odd.
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post #18026 of 18844 Old 06-27-2019, 03:41 AM
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Hi guys
I was looking for a centre speaker to match my beautiful awesome kef r500 in gloss black after doing the research I was looking for the kef r 200c or the kef 600c but after so much effort could not find them anywhere on sale . So talking to my kef dealer he has offered me the kef r2c the newer versions of the kef r serious at a very good price. They look very different but how will they match the kef r500 . The dealer assured me that they will Sound identical and will be a good match with the kef r500 are better then the kef r200 in turm off sound quality and bass has anyone experienced the new kef r2c with the kef r500 together . Any help would be watch appreciated.
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post #18027 of 18844 Old 06-27-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Space isn't really an issue, almost anything is smaller than Q900/Q600! Budget also isn't a huge issue but I don't like throwing money away for little gain. Assuming R2c vs LS50 as a center is little gain.

I am seriously considering upgrading my Q900 to LS50, and I am thinking about what to do to upgrade my Q600 center to match.

Secondhand, a pair of LS50 goes for about AUD$950. With the R2c being AUD$1800 and no secondhand ones available, it would be a much cheaper option to just get a second pair of LS50 and use one as a center (I could even sell the other one).

I'm not really considering other centers than LS50 or R2c as from my understanding R200/R600 are more laid-back soundwise.



Seems very odd/ugly having three multi-driver center speakers in front. I won't be doing that.

I would think the diffraction pattern would be odd.

Also, expensive. I could have r3/r2c and almost r5/r2c for the same cost as three r2c's.

I'm very happy with the tonal matching of Q900/Q600.
It'll be a big difference in dynamics going from Q900's to LS50's, though a good sub or two would reduce the gap. I would try the Q600 first as audyssey will level match unless you listen to multi-channel music.

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post #18028 of 18844 Old 06-27-2019, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Parasound01 View Post
Hi guys
I was looking for a centre speaker to match my beautiful awesome kef r500 in gloss black after doing the research I was looking for the kef r 200c or the kef 600c but after so much effort could not find them anywhere on sale . So talking to my kef dealer he has offered me the kef r2c the newer versions of the kef r serious at a very good price. They look very different but how will they match the kef r500 . The dealer assured me that they will Sound identical and will be a good match with the kef r500 are better then the kef r200 in turm off sound quality and bass has anyone experienced the new kef r2c with the kef r500 together . Any help would be watch appreciated.
They should work very well together in a multi-channel application. The sonic signature will be the same for both, though you may notice subtle differences if playing multi-channel music. Then again, who really uses the center for 2 channel music anyway. If your dealer has a reasonable return policy, take one home for a few days. Chances are you won't be taking it back.

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post #18029 of 18844 Old 06-27-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Seems very odd/ugly having three multi-driver center speakers in front. I won't be doing that.

I would think the diffraction pattern would be odd.

Also, expensive. I could have r3/r2c and almost r5/r2c for the same cost as three r2c's.

I'm very happy with the tonal matching of Q900/Q600.
I'm not sure what you mean, people have used MTM style speakers as LCR for years, the dispersion of all KEF speakers are even in all directions due to the UniQ design and a very low crossover (400Hz) in the 3 way designs. The R2c used as fronts would pretty much be a bookshelf version of the R5, same drivers and configuration. Yes they would be a pricier solution, I was just saying if you want more output it is an option, the LS50 has plenty of output but some people listen extremely loud.
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post #18030 of 18844 Old 06-27-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean, people have used MTM style speakers as LCR for years, the dispersion of all KEF speakers are even in all directions due to the UniQ design and a very low crossover (400Hz) in the 3 way designs. The R2c used as fronts would pretty much be a bookshelf version of the R5, same drivers and configuration. Yes they would be a pricier solution, I was just saying if you want more output it is an option, the LS50 has plenty of output but some people listen extremely loud.
If one listens extremely loud, LS50's or any Kef bookshelf may not be the best option with an 85/[email protected] rating. Of course room size and listening distance needs to taken into consideration. That said my inefficient Q100's can easily reach louder levels than I care to listen at.

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