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post #18121 of 19028 Old 07-05-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Before I started digging this rabbit hole, I wasn't listening to music very often, but as the quality of my components progress I find myself listening to more and more music as @KenM10759 warned me was likely to happen.

I've been tweeking both settings and positioning all week on the LS50's while they were burning in and think I'm pretty much there and I'm pretty sure they're fully broken in. I've been running a lot of different music on them, but mostly tool & Pink Floyd because they do have a lot of detail in their songs and it's actually relaxing...Tool relaxing, I know, go figure! Problem is I have a hard time listening to something else after an hour or two of Tool music. Anyway...The LS50 really bring out the small details that aren't as obvious to pick up on with the Q100's. The top end is smoother and bass seems more controlled. Drums and symbols are crisp with no overhang. You can hear each individual instrument with the vocals very clearly. The Q100's are very good speakers that I would recommend in a heartbeat, But the LS50 are a very clear step up. My only gripe is that they seem lifeless at lower volume which is main reason I was considering an external power amp.
Pretty amazing speakers, eh? Hard to believe there could be that much more detail within stuff you've heard for years, yet even with the same source material...there it is!

I don't know that you'd hear any significant difference by adding an external amp, and @SouthernCA brings up a valid point.

Keep experimenting, and in the meantime see if there's a dealer or friend who could let you demo an amp. Only then would you know for certain.

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post #18122 of 19028 Old 07-05-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Pretty amazing speakers, eh? Hard to believe there could be that much more detail within stuff you've heard for years, yet even with the same source material...there it is!

I don't know that you'd hear any significant difference by adding an external amp, and @SouthernCA brings up a valid point.

Keep experimenting, and in the meantime see if there's a dealer or friend who could let you demo an amp. Only then would you know for certain.
After you guys talked me out of it I did some more research. I don't think am amp would really help as much as I had thought. Trying out different settings and turned down my sub -4 db from audyssey default. Dynamic eq is not sounding so bad now so will see what I could do with the audyssey editor app.
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post #18123 of 19028 Old 07-05-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Pretty amazing speakers, eh? Hard to believe there could be that much more detail within stuff you've heard for years, yet even with the same source material...there it is!



I don't know that you'd hear any significant difference by adding an external amp, and @SouthernCA brings up a valid point.



Keep experimenting, and in the meantime see if there's a dealer or friend who could let you demo an amp. Only then would you know for certain.
Ls50 are truly amazing at any price point and to see them now at less than $1000, I can not see any reason to buy any other desktop speaker for anyone, if used with a decent sub and your listening volume is not too high (less than 85 dB at 12 ft).

The combination will also beat most tower speakers.

No wonder they are listed and sold by Kef as flagship speakers.
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post #18124 of 19028 Old 07-05-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
After you guys talked me out of it I did some more research. I don't think am amp would really help as much as I had thought. Trying out different settings and turned down my sub -4 db from audyssey default. Dynamic eq is not sounding so bad now so will see what I could do with the audyssey editor app.
Reference Level Offset would be a good choice. Plus, it will remember your settings for the different inputs.
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post #18125 of 19028 Old 07-05-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Ls50 are truly amazing at any price point and to see them now at less than $1000, I can not see any reason to buy any other desktop speaker for anyone, if used with a decent sub and your listening volume is not too high (less than 85 dB at 12 ft).

The combination will also beat most tower speakers.

No wonder they are listed and sold by Kef as flagship speakers.
They truly do sound fantastic for $1500 speakers!

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post #18126 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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Been back and forth on a center to sit upfront with my white LS50's. The dealer that sold me the LS50's can get me a R2c in white for $900 shipped to me here in the states. Anyone know of another source where I could get it cheaper?

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post #18127 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbohippo View Post
Been back and forth on a center to sit upfront with my white LS50's. The dealer that sold me the LS50's can get me a R2c in white for $900 shipped to me here in the states. Anyone know of another source where I could get it cheaper?

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post #18128 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 11:50 AM
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Reference Level Offset would be a good choice. Plus, it will remember your settings for the different inputs.
I've been using Spotify for awhile and stopped using the web player about 6 months ago because it kept cutting out and crashing every 2 to 3 tracks which drove me absolutely nuts. I've been using the desktop app since. I upgraded by 10 year old $50 router about a month ago to a much faster Linksys AC 1900 for various reasons. Never occurred to me to re-try the Spotify web player again until yesterday. I played some tracks on the web player and replayed the same tracks on the desktop app. Same settings and volume on the AVR and the difference was quite noticeable. Tracks sounded much more dynamic and lively on the web player and seem louder as well. Some tracks are more noticeable than others, but still. Have I completely "lost the plot" ? Or has someone else had a similar experience?

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post #18129 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I've been using Spotify for awhile and stopped using the web player about 6 months ago because it kept cutting out and crashing every 2 to 3 tracks which drove me absolutely nuts. I've been using the desktop app since. I upgraded by 10 year old $50 router about a month ago to a much faster Linksys AC 1900 for various reasons. Never occurred to me to re-try the Spotify web player again until yesterday. I played some tracks on the web player and replayed the same tracks on the desktop app. Same settings and volume on the AVR and the difference was quite noticeable. Tracks sounded much more dynamic and lively on the web player and seem louder as well. Some tracks are more noticeable than others, but still. Have I completely "lost the plot" ? Or has someone else had a similar experience?
I’m a bit confused. Web Player? Do you mean HEOS via the AVR vs a desktop app on your computer streamed via Wi-Fi or plugged into the AVR?

Personally, sometimes, I’ll either stream Apple Music via my iPad to the Denon or use my Apple TV 4K and I can tell a difference. Playing music via the Apple TV 4K directly via Ethernet only (not Streamed via Wi-Fi) sounds more immediate and fuller. I’ve never compared ATV via Wi-Fi. Maybe, someday.
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post #18130 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I've been using Spotify for awhile and stopped using the web player about 6 months ago because it kept cutting out and crashing every 2 to 3 tracks which drove me absolutely nuts. I've been using the desktop app since. I upgraded by 10 year old $50 router about a month ago to a much faster Linksys AC 1900 for various reasons. Never occurred to me to re-try the Spotify web player again until yesterday. I played some tracks on the web player and replayed the same tracks on the desktop app. Same settings and volume on the AVR and the difference was quite noticeable. Tracks sounded much more dynamic and lively on the web player and seem louder as well. Some tracks are more noticeable than others, but still. Have I completely "lost the plot" ? Or has someone else had a similar experience?
You can set the "Music Quality" to various stream rates. Maybe your web player settings are higher than your phone?
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post #18131 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I've been using Spotify for awhile and stopped using the web player about 6 months ago because it kept cutting out and crashing every 2 to 3 tracks which drove me absolutely nuts. I've been using the desktop app since. I upgraded by 10 year old $50 router about a month ago to a much faster Linksys AC 1900 for various reasons. Never occurred to me to re-try the Spotify web player again until yesterday. I played some tracks on the web player and replayed the same tracks on the desktop app. Same settings and volume on the AVR and the difference was quite noticeable. Tracks sounded much more dynamic and lively on the web player and seem louder as well. Some tracks are more noticeable than others, but still. Have I completely "lost the plot" ? Or has someone else had a similar experience?
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I’m a bit confused. Web Player? Do you mean HEOS via the AVR vs a desktop app on your computer streamed via Wi-Fi or plugged into the AVR?

Personally, sometimes, I’ll either stream Apple Music via my iPad to the Denon or use my Apple TV 4K and I can tell a difference. Playing music via the Apple TV 4K directly via Ethernet only (not Streamed via Wi-Fi) sounds more immediate and fuller. I’ve never compared ATV via Wi-Fi. Maybe, someday.
You can use Spotify by just going to a website (Spotify Web Player) or you can actually install Spotify software straight to your PC.

I use Spotify a lot myself and even have the paid version. Since I work from home I have a lot of freedom, so most days I have music going for at least half of my work day. The web player stopped/crashed a lot for me as well, so I stopped using it awhile ago. Your issue has me curious, so I will try testing that over the next week. It is nothing I ever noticed before, but probably didn't listen very closely then, and had some crappy PC speakers too.
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post #18132 of 19028 Old 07-06-2019, 10:14 PM
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Anyone using the CI130.2CR's (or CI130QR) for atmos height duty? I've got a 17x19 size basement theater with 7'9" ceilings and am hoping the 5.25" driver is sufficient for a room of that size. I know that not a lot of content is pushed to the height channels so I'm guessing it'll be fine but it'd be nice to hear from someone that's using them in a similar sized room.

I am interested in hearing from owners of the Ci130QR or Ci160QR in ceiling speakers as well. Anyone have them in use?

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post #18133 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 04:53 AM
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I am interested in hearing from owners of the Ci130QR or Ci160QR in ceiling speakers as well. Anyone have them in use?
Nope. Just the Ci200QR. My son has them mounted in his woodworking shop wall, just to be stereo speakers that aren't in the way.

They do sound quite good!

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post #18134 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 07:02 AM
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I've been mulling over finally picking up some speakers for my PC. The last time I looked into this I was planning to pick up the Logitech G560 speakers. From everything I read they provide decent sound and would fit perfectly with the rest of my setup. This was before I found KEF. Lol so now I've been looking at the LS50 Wireless and LSX speakers. I like everything I've read about the LS50W and I like the PC compatibility with USB audio but my concern is the size of the speakers and not sure if it's overkill for watching occasional videos and playing games. On the other hand the LSX are smaller and more affordable but lack the USB audio I'd like to use. I was interested to know if anyone has any experience with using either of these with a PC or any other insight or thoughts.

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post #18135 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 11:32 AM
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You can use Spotify by just going to a website (Spotify Web Player) or you can actually install Spotify software straight to your PC.

I use Spotify a lot myself and even have the paid version. Since I work from home I have a lot of freedom, so most days I have music going for at least half of my work day. The web player stopped/crashed a lot for me as well, so I stopped using it awhile ago. Your issue has me curious, so I will try testing that over the next week. It is nothing I ever noticed before, but probably didn't listen very closely then, and had some crappy PC speakers too.
On the Web player it sounds more dynamic and louder. Yes I turned up the volume to match, but felt the SQ was different. You have to open one then the other. If you start a track on one and continue it on the other you won't notice.

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post #18136 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
I've been mulling over finally picking up some speakers for my PC. The last time I looked into this I was planning to pick up the Logitech G560 speakers. From everything I read they provide decent sound and would fit perfectly with the rest of my setup. This was before I found KEF. Lol so now I've been looking at the LS50 Wireless and LSX speakers. I like everything I've read about the LS50W and I like the PC compatibility with USB audio but my concern is the size of the speakers and not sure if it's overkill for watching occasional videos and playing games. On the other hand the LSX are smaller and more affordable but lack the USB audio I'd like to use. I was interested to know if anyone has any experience with using either of these with a PC or any other insight or thoughts.

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The passive LS50 can be found on sale and would do quite well with a decent integrated amp. You'd have more connectivity options and would only need to replace the amp. with active speakers, they're pretty much boat anchors when then amp inevitably fails.
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post #18137 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
The passive LS50 can be found on sale and would do quite well with a decent integrated amp. You'd have more connectivity options and would only need to replace the amp. with active speakers, they're pretty much boat anchors when then amp inevitably fails.
i , as well think passive speakers are a much better long term solution.. , active is great if you lack space or are just flat not having budget constraints.. it's easier to replace a $300 avr than a $2000 /pair set of active ls50's.. there may be small performance differences, but if you do the math common sense has a chance to prevail...

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post #18138 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
On the Web player it sounds more dynamic and louder. Yes I turned up the volume to match, but felt the SQ was different. You have to open one then the other. If you start a track on one and continue it on the other you won't notice.
You do have the streaming quality setting as high as it goes? There is also a volume level setting (which i have never messed with) and another option called ‘normalize volume’ which supposedly sets the volume level for all songs the same. Perhaps those are different than on the web player?
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post #18139 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 12:26 PM
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The passive LS50 can be found on sale and would do quite well with a decent integrated amp. You'd have more connectivity options and would only need to replace the amp. with active speakers, they're pretty much boat anchors when then amp inevitably fails.
Thank you and @Lp85253 for your feedback. That thought did initially cross my mind but then I started talking myself out of it due to having to buy a separate amp and space concerns. I'd be using them on a 60x30 desk that already has a monitor and PC sitting on it. I'll have to look around for some small amps.

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post #18140 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 12:41 PM
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Thank you and @Lp85253 for your feedback. That thought did initially cross my mind but then I started talking myself out of it due to having to buy a separate amp and space concerns. I'd be using them on a 60x30 desk that already has a monitor and PC sitting on it. I'll have to look around for some small amps.

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The amp could easy be set on a shelf in corner or away from your desk if needed.

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post #18141 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 02:46 PM
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The amp could easy be set on a shelf in corner or away from your desk if needed.
That's exactly what I did. When I had a Bluesound Powernode 2 on my desk along with the left speaker and the right speaker was on a small table at the same height, things were a little crowded. Now I have an amp for the LS50's that sits on a stand next to the desk, and I really don't need to touch it because everything is controlled with the desktop app. If I'm doing a session of "critical listening" and don't want the PC on, I can still control the amp with a finger on it's front panel or with my phone or tablet.

P.S. _ Yeah, cable management is on my list, but after the office gets painted.
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Thank you and @Lp85253 for your feedback. That thought did initially cross my mind but then I started talking myself out of it due to having to buy a separate amp and space concerns. I'd be using them on a 60x30 desk that already has a monitor and PC sitting on it. I'll have to look around for some small amps.

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nad and sprout make good small amps, i am sure that there are many other good options as well...

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post #18143 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 03:35 PM
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The amp could easy be set on a shelf in corner or away from your desk if needed.
Most current desk setup. It's jammed in the corner but I'm sure I can figure something out.
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nad and sprout make good small amps, i am sure that there are many other good options as well...
From what I've looked at thus far I am liking the NAD D 3045 if I go this route. It seems compact enough with what I'm looking for. Click image for larger version

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post #18144 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Most current desk setup. It's jammed in the corner but I'm sure I can figure something out. From what I've looked at thus far I am liking the NAD D 3045 if I go this route. It seems compact enough with what I'm looking for. Attachment 2588570

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When my desk space was too tight (cluttered), I had started with an NAD D3020 before moving to the Bluesound Powernode 2. The new D3045 is very near the same size and the D3020v2, but has more features and power. Great choice.

The main reason I had moved over to the Powernode 2 was that I really missed having my office system running on BluOS. My office is just off my living room, and the 5.1.2 system there has BluOS by way of the NAD T758v3. It's a common thing for me to be listening in my office for a time, but then want to move to the living room. My music follows me, uninterrupted.

You'll love the D3045 if you have JRiver, Foobar 2000, or Roon to run it, and it's not priced "unrealistically."
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KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18145 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
That's exactly what I did. When I had a Bluesound Powernode 2 on my desk along with the left speaker and the right speaker was on a small table at the same height, things were a little crowded. Now I have an amp for the LS50's that sits on a stand next to the desk, and I really don't need to touch it because everything is controlled with the desktop app. If I'm doing a session of "critical listening" and don't want the PC on, I can still control the amp with a finger on it's front panel or with my phone or tablet.

P.S. _ Yeah, cable management is on my list, but after the office gets painted.
I'm laughing at the record player setup next to the PC desk!

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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post #18146 of 19028 Old 07-07-2019, 07:20 PM
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I'm laughing at the record player setup next to the PC desk!
Why is that funny to you? It works fabulously!

BTW, I don't know of many turntable setups that can do what mine can. The phono amp's analog outputs go into that NAD M10 integrated streaming amp. Output from the amp to my LS50's there sounds incredibly good for being an entry-level TT, cartridge, and phono amp. From the BluOS app on the desktop, my phone, or my Android tablet I can send the digitized signal to play on my NAD T758v3 in the living room or upstairs to the Bluesound Vault 2 feeding my Denon AVR1912 in the guest room. I can pick any one, two, or all three systems.

It's 'old school audio' meeting 2019 technology! Nothing wrong with that, is there?
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KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.

Last edited by KenM10759; 07-07-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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post #18147 of 19028 Old 07-08-2019, 12:36 AM
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If anyone's looking for a bargain on a 2nd Kube 10b or just looking to upgrade, here your chance.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...r-black/1.html

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #18148 of 19028 Old 07-08-2019, 01:19 AM
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...The Q100's are very good speakers that I would recommend in a heartbeat, But the LS50 are a very clear step up. My only gripe is that they seem lifeless at lower volume which is main reason I was considering an external power amp.
The whole reason for me going with R300s over anything else was the low volume bass rendering... Break in took quite a while, but now I enjoy them immensely.
BTW, Q100s with a sub could not come close. They serve now as surround speakers.

1. Samsung UN55MU7000, Yamaha A2070, KEF R700, R200c, 2x Kube 10b
2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A550, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.
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post #18149 of 19028 Old 07-08-2019, 08:57 AM
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Lifeless at lower volumes... I think it may be because of Fletcher Munsen curve.

At low volumes our brains need more bass to feel that bass is there. Denon and many other amps have Dynamic EQ that automatically boosts bass as total volume goes down to compensates for that. Try that. It may help.
I am assuming in this response that your LS50s are integrated with a sub. If that is not true, LS50 do feel lifeless due to lack of bass.
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post #18150 of 19028 Old 07-08-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
When my desk space was too tight (cluttered), I had started with an NAD D3020 before moving to the Bluesound Powernode 2. The new D3045 is very near the same size and the D3020v2, but has more features and power. Great choice.



The main reason I had moved over to the Powernode 2 was that I really missed having my office system running on BluOS. My office is just off my living room, and the 5.1.2 system there has BluOS by way of the NAD T758v3. It's a common thing for me to be listening in my office for a time, but then want to move to the living room. My music follows me, uninterrupted.



You'll love the D3045 if you have JRiver, Foobar 2000, or Roon to run it, and it's not priced "unrealistically."
Thanks for the valuable input as always. Yes that is the model I'm heavily leaning towards. I also checked out the Sprout100 and Denon PMA60. The Denon comes pretty close as far as features and size. It's also not a bad looking device. With that said the features on the 3045 make it my top choice. I think MQA and aptx HD support are more future facing.

Ah yes the Powernode 2i would've been another good choice. The BluOS compatibility would definitely be a plus considering I recently purchased a Node 2i. Sadly it doesn't support the Asynchronous USB audio I'd like to use and my desk is in the same room as my HT.

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