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post #18151 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
I am assuming in this response that your LS50s are integrated with a sub. If that is not true, LS50 do feel lifeless due to lack of bass.
Yes....sub is integrated, set to small, 90hz Xover.

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post #18152 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
I am assuming in this response that your LS50s are integrated with a sub. If that is not true, LS50 do feel lifeless due to lack of bass.
I've used LS50s integrated with subs and without. For the music I prefer, classical, baroque, and jazz, I find the bass extension of the LS50s entirely adequate, and the sound is not at all lifeless. I'm using pairs of LS50s with a 60-watt Ayre AX-7e and with a 300-watt NAD M22 Class D amp that will be integrated with subs as part of an HT setup. I'm reevaluating whether I really need my KEF Ref 1s and Ayre 5/Twenty series preamp and amp, but need to do a lot more comparative listening.

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post #18153 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I've used LS50s integrated with subs and without. For the music I prefer, classical, baroque, and jazz, I find the bass extension of the LS50s entirely adequate, and the sound is not at all lifeless. I'm using pairs of LS50s with a 60-watt Ayre AX-7e and with a 300-watt NAD M22 Class D amp that will be integrated with subs as part of an HT setup. I'm reevaluating whether I really need my KEF Ref 1s and Ayre 5/Twenty series preamp and amp, but need to do a lot more comparative listening.

db
I'm only using a Denon X3400H. I was contemplating adding a Marantz MM amp, but was told it wouldn't make much difference. The Denon doesn't sound bad by any means. Would just like a little more weight at lower volume for 2.1 music without having to use dynamic eq and such.

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post #18154 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I'm only using a Denon X3400H. I was contemplating adding a Marantz MM amp, but was told it wouldn't make much difference. The Denon doesn't sound bad by any means. Would just like a little more weight at lower volume for 2.1 music without having to use dynamic eq and such.
In my experience, LS50s are particular about amplification and reward good amps. I'm frankly surprised they sound as good as they do with the modest 60-watt Ayre AX-7e, but they do.

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post #18155 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I'm only using a Denon X3400H. I was contemplating adding a Marantz MM amp, but was told it wouldn't make much difference. The Denon doesn't sound bad by any means. Would just like a little more weight at lower volume for 2.1 music without having to use dynamic eq and such.
I have an x-3500h. And i use it with LS50. While it sounds fine, I feel my Parasound high current class A/AB power amp makes the sound a little more melodious. Not sure how to describe that otherwise. The difference is very subtle and it could just be my sighted bias. But I do feel the sound is a bit better.

Last edited by SouthernCA; 07-08-2019 at 02:11 PM.
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post #18156 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
I have a x-3500h. And u use it with LS50. While it sounds fineI feel my Parasound high current class A/AB power amp makes the sound a little more melodious. Not sure how to describe that otherwise. The difference is very subtle and it could just be my sighted bias. But I do feel the sound is a bit better.
Question is, how much would I need to spend on an amp. The ones I'm considering are on not exactly considered high end so not sure if they're worth it.

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post #18157 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
I have an x-3500h. And i use it with LS50. While it sounds fine, I feel my Parasound high current class A/AB power amp makes the sound a little more melodious. Not sure how to describe that otherwise. The difference is very subtle and it could just be my sighted bias. But I do feel the sound is a bit better.
I think the LS50s sound great with a Parasound A 21, not as great with an A 23 though. They did sing with my JC 1 monoblocks, but that's silly.

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post #18158 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I think the LS50s sound great with a Parasound A 21, not as great with an A 23 though. They did sing with my JC 1 monoblocks, but that's silly.



db
The question is how much better and if it is just a visual bias. Would I be able to tell the difference in a double blind test? I am not sure.
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post #18159 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 06:53 PM
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Been back and forth on a center to sit upfront with my white LS50's. The dealer that sold me the LS50's can get me a R2c in white for $900 shipped to me here in the states. Anyone know of another source where I could get it cheaper?

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If anyone's curious, I ordered my R2c this afternoon. I'll share my experience once I get her dialed in.

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post #18160 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 07:00 PM
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Thanks for the valuable input as always. Yes that is the model I'm heavily leaning towards. I also checked out the Sprout100 and Denon PMA60. The Denon comes pretty close as far as features and size. It's also not a bad looking device. With that said the features on the 3045 make it my top choice. I think MQA and aptx HD support are more future facing.

Ah yes the Powernode 2i would've been another good choice. The BluOS compatibility would definitely be a plus considering I recently purchased a Node 2i. Sadly it doesn't support the Asynchronous USB audio I'd like to use and my desk is in the same room as my HT.

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I'm curious as to why you need the asynchronous USB input. Is there some source through that which you can't access via your home network via the Bluesound app?

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post #18161 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I'm curious as to why you need the asynchronous USB input. Is there some source through that which you can't access via your home network via the Bluesound app?
My current plan is to use them as all purpose speakers for my PC. So I planned to connect the amp to my PC using the USB and be able to use the speakers for consuming content on the internet, gaming, etc. It appears to from reading at least provide the highest quality connection when specifically trying to use an integrated amp with a PC. Otherwise you are indeed correct my only other source would probably be Tidal when listening to music and that could easily be handled by something like the Powernode. Of course there is always the chance I've just formed this idea in my head and in real world usage there may be no discernable difference in using another input method.

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post #18162 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
My current plan is to use them as all purpose speakers for my PC. So I planned to connect the amp to my PC using the USB and be able to use the speakers for consuming content on the internet, gaming, etc. It appears to from reading at least provide the highest quality connection when specifically trying to use an integrated amp with a PC. Otherwise you are indeed correct my only other source would probably be Tidal when listening to music and that could easily be handled by something like the Powernode. Of course there is always the chance I've just formed this idea in my head and in real world usage there may be no discernable difference in using another input method.

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You can easily use the USB output of your PC into a Node or Powernode because they both have a USB-A input. All kinds of adapters exist. Here's one place you might find exactly what you need:

https://www.monoprice.com/category/a...s/usb-adapters

If I have some time tomorrow, I'll fire-up my laptop PC and connect it via USB to my Vault 2 to see if it'll play audio from a YouTube video running on the PC. I think it might.

A Vault 2 is essentially a Node 2 with added ripping and storage capabilities.

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post #18163 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
The passive LS50 can be found on sale and would do quite well with a decent integrated amp. You'd have more connectivity options and would only need to replace the amp. with active speakers, they're pretty much boat anchors when then amp inevitably fails.
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i , as well think passive speakers are a much better long term solution.. , active is great if you lack space or are just flat not having budget constraints.. it's easier to replace a $300 avr than a $2000 /pair set of active ls50's.. there may be small performance differences, but if you do the math common sense has a chance to prevail...
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Thank you and @Lp85253 for your feedback. That thought did initially cross my mind but then I started talking myself out of it due to having to buy a separate amp and space concerns. I'd be using them on a 60x30 desk that already has a monitor and PC sitting on it. I'll have to look around for some small amps.

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On the question of LS50W vs LSX...I have a pair of LS50W. I used them in a living room for both music and HT. Since I am out of the country right now, they are being used on a friend's office desk. I feel they are too big for that space, and you can't take full advantage of the bass features on a normal desktop. You have to really confine their abilities on a desk since they are so close to you. When I return, I am going to get a pair of LSX for my desktop, as I feel they are better designed for that space. I prefer the LS50W as room speaker, not something right in my face.

I disagree with the negative sentiment about active speakers as an option. The responses here are made out of fear of an event that hasn't happened, and not based on any facts or numbers. The reply on that level is to say that active speakers have been used in professional environments for decades. It is not a new concept, and is a very mature technology. The fear around active speakers as an option is unfounded.

In a more practical view, let's first look at cost. With the LSX you are spending $1100 for the full package vs $1000 for the LS50. You then have to pay for the additional electronics needed to run them. If you look at what people say on here, they recommend a good quality amp for LS50, not a cheap $300 one, and also a sub to go with them. You can get quite a bill going, but let's assume you are dealing with the $300 amp, and no additional electronics. If you opt for the LS50W, you're spending $2200 for the full set, so you're closer to LS50 passives with a sub, and a halfway decent amp.

With my LS50W, I did actually have to send them in for repair. The repair was free, but I had to pay about $100 shipping. So, you're still ahead of the cheap amp, and it took about a week. If you have to send in a pair of LSX after the warranty is over, you're breaking even on the cheap amp, and way ahead on a better quality one.

Next, look at time. What happens with the "amp inevitably fails," in the LS50W or LSX. Using that logic, the amp will also "inevitably fail" in your passive system. So the failure part is consistent across both systems, and you just look at the details. With the passive set up, you have to pay for the cost of new amp, and wait for it to arrive...about the same amount of time, and more cost for the replacement.

I have never heard a legitimate argument for why active speakers are not a real option for any system, be it desktop speakers, a 2.1, or a full fledged HT set up. Every argument I see are made out of fear, by people who don't actually have active speakers. I recommend that you include them in your search. Try them out at Best Buy and see what you think. Don't discount or give any bonus to active or passive. Treat them all the same, and get the system that works best for you and your space.
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post #18164 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 09:27 PM
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Question is, how much would I need to spend on an amp. The ones I'm considering are on not exactly considered high end so not sure if they're worth it.

Take a look at Odyssey Audio.


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post #18165 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Why is that funny to you? It works fabulously!

BTW, I don't know of many turntable setups that can do what mine can. The phono amp's analog outputs go into that NAD M10 integrated streaming amp. Output from the amp to my LS50's there sounds incredibly good for being an entry-level TT, cartridge, and phono amp. From the BluOS app on the desktop, my phone, or my Android tablet I can send the digitized signal to play on my NAD T758v3 in the living room or upstairs to the Bluesound Vault 2 feeding my Denon AVR1912 in the guest room. I can pick any one, two, or all three systems.

It's 'old school audio' meeting 2019 technology! Nothing wrong with that, is there?
I just found it funny, I see so many super high-tech multi-monitor setups on https://reddit.com/r/musicbattlestations and the like, then yours with the record player...

It's very tricky that you can send the record sound to other rooms.

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The whole reason for me going with R300s over anything else was the low volume bass rendering... Break in took quite a while, but now I enjoy them immensely.
BTW, Q100s with a sub could not come close. They serve now as surround speakers.
Have you tried LS50? Are you saying you preferred the low volume bass of R300 to LS50? What about LS50 combined with a sub?

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post #18166 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Lifeless at lower volumes... I think it may be because of Fletcher Munsen curve.

At low volumes our brains need more bass to feel that bass is there. Denon and many other amps have Dynamic EQ that automatically boosts bass as total volume goes down to compensates for that. Try that. It may help.
I think this might be why I'm not a huge fan of my Q900s at lower volumes.

I'm using a Pioneer VSX-1131.

Any ideas on what settings I might need to look for to help? I couldn't find Dynamic EQ.

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post #18167 of 18853 Old 07-08-2019, 10:09 PM
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I think this might be why I'm not a huge fan of my Q900s at lower volumes.

I'm using a Pioneer VSX-1131.

Any ideas on what settings I might need to look for to help? I couldn't find Dynamic EQ.
Dynamic EQ is the term Denon uses for it's implementation of increased bass at lower volumes. Pioneer may have a different name for it.
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post #18168 of 18853 Old 07-09-2019, 01:36 AM
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I'm looking to get pair of q100, r100 or r300. Unfortunately I can't give them much room to the sides. On one side there is a wall and on the other side a cabinet. So to the side walls I can give them like 4 inches and to the back 8-10 inches. I could get a really cheap pair of R300s but do you think it will sound too boomy in that place? Otherwise I would just settle with a pair of q100 i think.
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I'm looking to get pair of q100, r100 or r300. Unfortunately I can't give them much room to the sides. On one side there is a wall and on the other side a cabinet. So to the side walls I can give them like 4 inches and to the back 8-10 inches. I could get a really cheap pair of R300s but do you think it will sound too boomy in that place? Otherwise I would just settle with a pair of q100 i think.

Should be fine, you can also use the full port plugs on the R300's to help.

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post #18170 of 18853 Old 07-09-2019, 03:25 AM
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I'm looking to get pair of q100, r100 or r300. Unfortunately I can't give them much room to the sides. On one side there is a wall and on the other side a cabinet. So to the side walls I can give them like 4 inches and to the back 8-10 inches. I could get a really cheap pair of R300s but do you think it will sound too boomy in that place? Otherwise I would just settle with a pair of q100 i think.
You should be okay. Just use a higher crossover of 90-100hz. Given the choice between Q & R series, I'd go with R series without question. LS50's could also be a good alternative given the space constraints.
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Can I get some help configuring my front height eggs E301's with my Denon x3400h. Do I have to decide between Atmos vs front height or is this the same setting?

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post #18172 of 18853 Old 07-10-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Dynamic EQ is the term Denon uses for it's implementation of increased bass at lower volumes. Pioneer may have a different name for it.
It’s not only bass frequencies.

What is Audyssey Dynamic EQ?
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post #18173 of 18853 Old 07-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbohippo View Post
Can I get some help configuring my front height eggs E301's with my Denon x3400h. Do I have to decide between Atmos vs front height or is this the same setting?

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Essentially they'll serve the same function. Placing them as height may use different filters and eq than to front or middle. It may alter what sounds get sent to them. That's my best guess.

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post #18174 of 18853 Old 07-11-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ghoti_9 View Post
On the question of LS50W vs LSX...I have a pair of LS50W. I used them in a living room for both music and HT. Since I am out of the country right now, they are being used on a friend's office desk. I feel they are too big for that space, and you can't take full advantage of the bass features on a normal desktop. You have to really confine their abilities on a desk since they are so close to you. When I return, I am going to get a pair of LSX for my desktop, as I feel they are better designed for that space. I prefer the LS50W as room speaker, not something right in my face.

I disagree with the negative sentiment about active speakers as an option. The responses here are made out of fear of an event that hasn't happened, and not based on any facts or numbers. The reply on that level is to say that active speakers have been used in professional environments for decades. It is not a new concept, and is a very mature technology. The fear around active speakers as an option is unfounded.

In a more practical view, let's first look at cost. With the LSX you are spending $1100 for the full package vs $1000 for the LS50. You then have to pay for the additional electronics needed to run them. If you look at what people say on here, they recommend a good quality amp for LS50, not a cheap $300 one, and also a sub to go with them. You can get quite a bill going, but let's assume you are dealing with the $300 amp, and no additional electronics. If you opt for the LS50W, you're spending $2200 for the full set, so you're closer to LS50 passives with a sub, and a halfway decent amp.

With my LS50W, I did actually have to send them in for repair. The repair was free, but I had to pay about $100 shipping. So, you're still ahead of the cheap amp, and it took about a week. If you have to send in a pair of LSX after the warranty is over, you're breaking even on the cheap amp, and way ahead on a better quality one.

Next, look at time. What happens with the "amp inevitably fails," in the LS50W or LSX. Using that logic, the amp will also "inevitably fail" in your passive system. So the failure part is consistent across both systems, and you just look at the details. With the passive set up, you have to pay for the cost of new amp, and wait for it to arrive...about the same amount of time, and more cost for the replacement.

I have never heard a legitimate argument for why active speakers are not a real option for any system, be it desktop speakers, a 2.1, or a full fledged HT set up. Every argument I see are made out of fear, by people who don't actually have active speakers. I recommend that you include them in your search. Try them out at Best Buy and see what you think. Don't discount or give any bonus to active or passive. Treat them all the same, and get the system that works best for you and your space.
The argument isn't against active speakers as a whole, it is specifically in regard to the LS50w. It is KEF's first attempt at doing this and there have been a lot of issues in the past couple of years with them.

Nobody is going to be afraid of buying a Genelec in comparison, with their pedigree and experience in making active speakers.
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post #18175 of 18853 Old 07-11-2019, 11:06 PM
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The argument isn't against active speakers as a whole, it is specifically in regard to the LS50w. It is KEF's first attempt at doing this and there have been a lot of issues in the past couple of years with them.

Nobody is going to be afraid of buying a Genelec in comparison, with their pedigree and experience in making active speakers.
It is not Kef's first attempt, I am currently listineing to a set of XA300 Wireless speakers in the office. I also have a set of LS50Ws and a set of LS50 passives driven by a Cambridge Audio 851A integrated amp. The passives have a Rel S2 sub each to fill out the base and the LS50W has a Kef 30B sub (12" sub from the 1990s) to help it along. The LS50 wireless blew an internal amplifier around 6 months ago which was repaired under warranty.
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post #18176 of 18853 Old 07-11-2019, 11:13 PM
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It is not Kef's first attempt, I am currently listineing to a set of XA300 Wireless speakers in the office. I also have a set of LS50Ws and a set of LS50 passives driven by a Cambridge Audio 851A integrated amp. The passives have a Rel S2 sub each to fill out the base and the LS50W has a Kef 30B sub (12" sub from the 1990s) to help it along. The LS50 wireless blew an internal amplifier around 6 months ago which was repaired under warranty.
We hope it does not below ah6ain. After the warranty is up.
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post #18177 of 18853 Old 07-14-2019, 11:17 PM
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Those of you there have the R500 , do you use the plugs in the ports , and what are the distance from the rear wall.

Right now i´m only using the outer plug , and my distance from the rear wall is 9Inch

Kef R500,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-1000, Onkyo TX-NR818,BlueSound Node2 , Sony 65XE90, Xbox One S. ,Apple Tv4K
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post #18178 of 18853 Old 07-15-2019, 03:18 AM
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Those of you there have the R500 , do you use the plugs in the ports , and what are the distance from the rear wall.

Right now i´m only using the outer plug , and my distance from the rear wall is 9Inch
When I had mine at about the same distance I tried that, just the outer ring. I later removed it and there really wasn't any difference. Now there's 17" behind them and no plug, they sound their best.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18179 of 18853 Old 07-15-2019, 03:38 AM
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When I had mine at about the same distance I tried that, just the outer ring. I later removed it and there really wasn't any difference. Now there's 17" behind them and no plug, they sound their best.
Thanks Ken , i will try to test without , can you remember is there where any change i the sound after burn in of the speakers.

Kef R500,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-1000, Onkyo TX-NR818,BlueSound Node2 , Sony 65XE90, Xbox One S. ,Apple Tv4K
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post #18180 of 18853 Old 07-15-2019, 08:37 AM
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Those of you there have the R500 , do you use the plugs in the ports , and what are the distance from the rear wall.

Right now i´m only using the outer plug , and my distance from the rear wall is 9Inch


When I had mine as fronts I had them sitting at 12 inches from the wall at the back and 15 inches from the side. Haven’t heard much difference using outer plugs.
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