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post #18661 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DhananjayJ View Post
Hello,

I own KEF LS50Wireless speakers. I enjoy its sound. I have basic query. Need advise from members.

At present my setup for listening to music is Cowon Plenue 2 to KEF LS50 W directly connected by 3.5 mm to two rca cable. Do I need to have any amplifier or DAC in between it? (if yes..then which one is best? ).
I understand that LS50W has inbuilt Digital sound processor so it don't need any amplifier as it is again going to convert digital to analog one.

Please guide. Thanks in advance.
Your speakers have all you need right in them. Never send an amplified signal to them, you could damage them.

The LS50 Wireless also have a very good DAC (digital-to-analog) converter in them, so you might be able to compare the AKM DAC in your Plenue 2 to the (unknown) DAC in the LS50 Wireless *if* the Plenue 2 has some kind of digital output. From what I could find, it does not have any digital output, only a USB connection for slow data transfer.

You might want to look for a better digital music server for those speakers.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18662 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Your speakers have all you need right in them. Never send an amplified signal to them, you could damage them.

The LS50 Wireless also have a very good DAC (digital-to-analog) converter in them, so you might be able to compare the AKM DAC in your Plenue 2 to the (unknown) DAC in the LS50 Wireless *if* the Plenue 2 has some kind of digital output. From what I could find, it does not have any digital output, only a USB connection for slow data transfer.

You might want to look for a better digital music server for those speakers.
KenM10759---

Thanks for providing clarity.

Just one more--- In India where I stay, have less scope for digital music streaming.

Can I go for DAP which has line out facility? or optical output facility?
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post #18663 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DhananjayJ View Post
KenM10759---

Thanks for providing clarity.

Just one more--- In India where I stay, have less scope for digital music streaming.

Can I go for DAP which has line out facility? or optical output facility?
If you mean Digital Audio Player, yes. That's what I meant by digital music server.

Do you have your own stored library of digital music? If not, what streaming services are available?

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18664 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
If you mean Digital Audio Player, yes. That's what I meant by digital music server.

Do you have your own stored library of digital music? If not, what streaming services are available?
Cowon plenue 2 don't have digital output.
I can go for DAP like Ibasso 220 / Shanling M6. ( I am planning to go for it very soon )

I have my songs in flac file format stored in my PC as well as hard disk. Also stored in Cowon Plenue 2 (which has external memory card facility upto 256 gb). I use the same.

I have heard about storing music data online like 'ROON' etc. But not using it as not very common here. I go for spotify, Gaana music sites via PC or android TV.
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post #18665 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DhananjayJ View Post
Cowon plenue 2 don't have digital output.
I can go for DAP like Ibasso 220 / Shanling M6. ( I am planning to go for it very soon )

I have my songs in flac file format stored in my PC as well as hard disk. Also stored in Cowon Plenue 2 (which has external memory card facility upto 256 gb). I use the same.

I have heard about storing music data online like 'ROON' etc. But not using it as not very common here. I go for spotify, Gaana music sites via PC or android TV.
Sorry but we are 1/2 a world apart and I don't know what those things are. I had to Google to learn anything about the Cowon Plenue 2, and I am not motivated to do more. Sorry.

Good luck.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18666 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
^
No toe in would seem to make sense at only 6 ft apart. My R7's are about 8 ft apart and I have just a slight toe in, and I played around quite a bit starting with almost full toe in. I sit about 8 feet from the front speakers. Toe'ing out produced better soundstage and imaging with the only drawback being slightly lower measured output. S&V did a review of the new R-series recently and it ticked me off that they reviewed based on full toe in for the main front speakers. Not sure they even experimented.
After experimenting I also settled for a minimal toe-in, works best for me. My R7's are about 7 feet apart with listening position about 9 feet away.

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post #18667 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I got a call from a KEF tech this morning as a followup to a question about using banana plugs with the Ref 1s. I asked about toe-in for Uni-Q speakers. His reply was that a lot of design has gone into the dispersion pattern of the Uni-Q, and recommended no toe-in. I was impressed by the followup and the apparent knowledge of the tech.


Actually some years ago Jack Oclee-Brown, Head of Acoustics at Kef, replied to my post in a UK “Kef Reference” forum stating newer versions of the UniQ (including the 20X/2 series) would be fine toed-in. My post stated that the Kef recommended straight ahead. While that was true with my previous 103/4s, he said that was not necessarily true anymore. I can’t remember if this was in the AVForum or What HiFi Kef Reference threads.


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post #18668 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I got a call from a KEF tech this morning as a followup to a question about using banana plugs with the Ref 1s. I asked about toe-in for Uni-Q speakers. His reply was that a lot of design has gone into the dispersion pattern of the Uni-Q, and recommended no toe-in. I was impressed by the followup and the apparent knowledge of the tech.
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Actually some years ago Jack Oclee-Brown, Head of Acoustics at Kef, replied to my post in a UK “Kef Reference” forum stating newer versions of the UniQ (including the 20X/2 series) would be fine toed-in. My post stated that the Kef recommended straight ahead. While that was true with my previous 103/4s, he said that was not necessarily true anymore. I can’t remember if this was in the AVForum or What HiFi Kef Reference threads.
I think Toe-in really depends on the presentation you want, some people like to be in the On-axis soundfield with minimal reflections while others prefer a more spacious presentation with more reflections. I prefer no toe-in because I like more reflections, it sounds more like live music to me. If you look at some of the KEF measurements on Soundstage, you see they are generally similar up to 30 degrees off axis but after that start falling off faster than typical cone and dome speakers. The benefit of this to me when pointing the speaker straight ahead is that the direct sound reaching your ears is very similar to the sidewall reflections, since both are about 15-30 degrees off-axis with no toe-in. The Harman research tells us that you want these 1st reflections to match the direct sound as close as possible.

On the flip side, if you aim your Kef directly at your head, you'll still get a similar sound as the No toe-in setup but the sidewall reflections are now in the 60-75 degree range, which are much lower in amplitude and will have less of an effect on what you hear. It's really all preference and each of us should experiment a bit to see what we prefer.
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post #18669 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 12:55 PM
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I was curious about why speakers with Uni-Q might deviate from my previous experience. I've always used a toe-in that aims the speakers just behind the primary listening position. But when I did this with the Uni-Q Ref 1s, I found that preferred the sound before the toe-in. So, following the what I prefer dictum, I will return the speakers to no toe-in status.
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post #18670 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I was curious about why speakers with Uni-Q might deviate from my previous experience.

Because of the UniQ driver. The coincidental array behaves differently off-axis than speakers with a conventionally separated tweeter and woofer.

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post #18671 of 18994 Old 09-18-2019, 07:59 PM
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The way I see it, you have three options:
  1. Turn down that speaker level
  2. Calibrate XT32 for that location
  3. Kick whoever is there out of the middle seat
I would go with option 3, lol!

The real problem is your location.

I don't think changing to wall speakers would make all that much difference because XT32 would just turn them up to compensate.
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
It does seem you could dial-down the volume on the surrounds and that should help. Sometimes just moving them further away helps more, but in many cases there's a wall preventing that. That's where in-wall speakers help, and they can be very good.

My receiver now has a 3rd-party app that even after Dirac calibration I can grab my phone and adjust volume on any speaker. Pretty cool.
Thanks guys. Option 3 would be great, but it is often an empty seat as our 3 seat recliner only reclines on L and R sides. When the motor dies I'll make sure there are powered seats across!

Will tweak down the surrounds for now, and am seriously considering cutting the 11x8 holes in my drywall for in wall speakers, or just mounting the T101s as they look quite nice with the R series. I'd even consider the R8a, but not a huge fan of the downward angle it would have coupled with the exposed posts.
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post #18672 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilH930 View Post
Thanks guys. Option 3 would be great, but it is often an empty seat as our 3 seat recliner only reclines on L and R sides. When the motor dies I'll make sure there are powered seats across!

Will tweak down the surrounds for now, and am seriously considering cutting the 11x8 holes in my drywall for in wall speakers, or just mounting the T101s as they look quite nice with the R series. I'd even consider the R8a, but not a huge fan of the downward angle it would have coupled with the exposed posts.
Try Raising the Q150's. 12" above ear level is recommended for rear speakers (unless you have Atmos)

Just for the sake of experimenting elevate your stands using something like a milk crate, If you like what you hear you can either:

A) build a matching platform to raise the stand
B) wall mound the Q150
C) Use speakers designed for wall mounting ( T101, T301, Q50a)
D)Try upfiring the Q150's, I've actually had great success using this strategy on many occasions where placement was an issue. It really creates the most immersive surround experience IMO. I would strongly recommend at least trying this option.

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Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #18673 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 10:49 AM
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Q250C sealed

I have read that the Q250C is a sealed box yet the Kef website describes it as a two-way bass reflex. Anyone know how a sealed enclosure can be "bass reflex" or if that's an error?

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post #18674 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 11:08 AM
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I have read that the Q250C is a sealed box yet the Kef website describes it as a two-way bass reflex. Anyone know how a sealed enclosure can be "bass reflex" or if that's an error?
It has passive radiators.
Not sure why they are calling it bass reflex (I don't think PRs are considered bass reflex).

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post #18675 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 12:19 PM
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Thanks.

Tony

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post #18676 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
I have read that the Q250C is a sealed box yet the Kef website describes it as a two-way bass reflex. Anyone know how a sealed enclosure can be "bass reflex" or if that's an error?
It isn't sealed. The passive radiator is a bass reflex system. It is driven by the backwave of the driver.

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post #18677 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 12:35 PM
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It isn't sealed. The passive radiator is a bass reflex system. It is driven by the backwave of the driver.
Got it. I guess I never heard of a passive radiator called bass reflex, which typically describes a ported system.

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post #18678 of 18994 Old 09-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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The passive radiator is a bass reflex system.

I don't think PRs are considered bass reflex. "Think" being the operative word, here, of course.

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post #18679 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 07:16 AM
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post #18680 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 02:17 PM
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What to believe?

KEF says their T-2 Subwoofer has a Frequency Response of 30Hz - 250Hz. Sound and Vision seem to say otherwise. They're claiming 38Hz -/+3db normalized at 80Hz. Frequency graph cited below:



I've seen people rave about the Kube sub, but unfortunately my cat would rip that cloth to shreds within the first few days. If anyone has experience with the T-2 sub, I'd be all ears. Still looking for one to possibly include into my 2ch music set up.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #18681 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
What to believe?

KEF says their T-2 Subwoofer has a Frequency Response of 30Hz - 250Hz. Sound and Vision seem to say otherwise. They're claiming 38Hz -/+3db normalized at 80Hz. Frequency graph cited below:


I've seen people rave about the Kube sub, but unfortunately my cat would rip that cloth to shreds within the first few days. If anyone has experience with the T-2 sub, I'd be all ears. Still looking for one to possibly include into my 2ch music set up.
I don't doubt Sound and Visions measurements but the thing about bass is the room is going to dominate anyway, so regardless of a sub being flat or not doesn't matter because if you want good bass, EQ is mandatory in your room. I use crappy dual Polk PSW 505 subs but with REW and a Mini DSP, it's neutral and sounds tight, clean, "fast", etc.
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post #18682 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
What to believe?

KEF says their T-2 Subwoofer has a Frequency Response of 30Hz - 250Hz. Sound and Vision seem to say otherwise. They're claiming 38Hz -/+3db normalized at 80Hz. Frequency graph cited below:

I've seen people rave about the Kube sub, but unfortunately my cat would rip that cloth to shreds within the first few days. If anyone has experience with the T-2 sub, I'd be all ears. Still looking for one to possibly include into my 2ch music set up.
If your cat is really that bad you are better-off looking for a used SVS SB2000 because they have a perforated steel grille.

My Kube 10b is right next to the feeding/watering station and none of our 3 cats that use it have ever touched the sub other than to use its glossy top as a launch pad to my desk.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18683 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
What to believe?

KEF says their T-2 Subwoofer has a Frequency Response of 30Hz - 250Hz. Sound and Vision seem to say otherwise. They're claiming 38Hz -/+3db normalized at 80Hz. Frequency graph cited below:



I've seen people rave about the Kube sub, but unfortunately my cat would rip that cloth to shreds within the first few days. If anyone has experience with the T-2 sub, I'd be all ears. Still looking for one to possibly include into my 2ch music set up.
If you keep the grill off the cats will have nothing to scratch at. If you want peace of mind, SVS SB/PB-2000 has a metal grill and is a pretty decent sub as well.

FWIW, I never put the grill on mine and my cats never paid much attention to it. My big male cat does lie on top of it from time to time but never caused any damage.

EDIT: Ken beat me to it.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.

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post #18684 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I don't doubt Sound and Visions measurements but the thing about bass is the room is going to dominate anyway, so regardless of a sub being flat or not doesn't matter because if you want good bass, EQ is mandatory in your room. I use crappy dual Polk PSW 505 subs but with REW and a Mini DSP, it's neutral and sounds tight, clean, "fast", etc.
I think it's more which frequency response spec to believe - 30 or 38. If it's actually 30, it'd be a possible consideration. If it's actually 38, I would pass on it since I think I would want it to go to at least 30-ishHz at a reasonably solid dB level (if it's 30Hz at -/+12dB, then no thanks).

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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
If your cat is really that bad you are better-off looking for a used SVS SB2000 because they have a perforated steel grille.

My Kube 10b is right next to the feeding/watering station and none of our 3 cats that use it have ever touched the sub other than to use its glossy top as a launch pad to my desk.
I'm slightly exaggerating with the cat - he's not terrible, he's just very playful, young, and we've only had him since January. My previous, 19-year old kitty wouldn't have made me bat an eyelash at the Kube (he had been declawed by the previous owner, and he lost almost all of his teeth near the end of his life - I miss that goober a lot ). He did make a couple of attempts with the Pioneer BS22s I had before my RTiAs, so I know he would take a serious, hard look at the Kube.

Budget wouldn't allow an SB-2000, sadly. My choices are pretty much narrowed down to the SB-1000, the MA Bronze W10 or the Q Acoustics 3070s (I finally found a good, Canadian source for the QA sub). The KEFs have been on the back of my mind, still, though, which is why I'm asking here, and I've seen virtually no info on the T-2. I'm not going to bog down or derail the comments by waxing poetic about my ongoing struggle to choose a sub for my 2ch set up, though!

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #18685 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
I think it's more which frequency response spec to believe - 30 or 38. If it's actually 30, it'd be a possible consideration. If it's actually 38, I would pass on it since I think I would want it to go to at least 30-ishHz at a reasonably solid dB level (if it's 30Hz at -/+12dB, then no thanks).
If you're only getting 1 sub, I think you'd be better off getting a 12" sub, a single 10 isn't going to have a whole lot of deep bass going on under 40Hz I'd imagine. Of course, your room does have a lot to do with this, if you have some room modes that boost your deep bass, you could be ok. Also sealed usually work a bit better for the deep bass because the rolloff is 2nd order instead of a steep 4th order rolloff below the port tuning frequency, you can see that in the graphs you posted. I actually stuffed my Polks ports but not for that reason, I just had a lot of bass in the 30-50Hz region and it was an easy way to attenuate that.
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post #18686 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
If you're only getting 1 sub, I think you'd be better off getting a 12" sub, a single 10 isn't going to have a whole lot of deep bass going on under 40Hz I'd imagine. Of course, your room does have a lot to do with this, if you have some room modes that boost your deep bass, you could be ok. Also sealed usually work a bit better for the deep bass because the rolloff is 2nd order instead of a steep 4th order rolloff below the port tuning frequency, you can see that in the graphs you posted. I actually stuffed my Polks ports but not for that reason, I just had a lot of bass in the 30-50Hz region and it was an easy way to attenuate that.
Just the one sub, yes. Wouldn't need the bass to be too deep, just deep enough for music. The T-2 is a sealed subwoofer, afaik.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #18687 of 18994 Old 09-20-2019, 06:48 PM
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Just the one sub, yes. Wouldn't need the bass to be too deep, just deep enough for music. The T-2 is a sealed subwoofer, afaik.
In that case I'm sure it's fine for music, there isn't much content below 40Hz anyway.
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post #18688 of 18994 Old 09-23-2019, 10:49 AM
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Motor home system

I need some advice for a 3.1 system for my Motorhome.

Looking at used speakers with a budget of $500-700 max.

Speakers will go into a cabinet which also houses the 43" TV.

So I assume any speaker with pouts need to be placed on the front of he speaker.

Seating distance is about 7'

Here is a picture of the cabinet and the area.

The picture of the area the cabinet is now mounted on the left slide out. On the right slide out I'll have 2 ea theater seats.

Thanks.
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post #18689 of 18994 Old 09-23-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by caryt View Post
I need some advice for a 3.1 system for my Motorhome.

Looking at used speakers with a budget of $500-700 max.

Speakers will go into a cabinet which also houses the 43" TV.

So I assume any speaker with pouts need to be placed on the front of he speaker.

Seating distance is about 7'

Here is a picture of the cabinet and the area.

The picture of the area the cabinet is now mounted on the left slide out. On the right slide out I'll have 2 ea theater seats.

Thanks.
Are you looking at Kefs?

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.
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post #18690 of 18994 Old 09-23-2019, 02:22 PM
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Yes, my home 5.1 is all Kef and very happy with performance been using Kef's for the last 30 years.
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