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post #18721 of 18994 Old 09-26-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Q350 will sound fine but I'd keep that Klipsch sub with it or get another larger one.
Got it. Thanks.
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post #18722 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by spooky action View Post
Got it. Thanks.
Q350s punch way above their weight IMO. Fantastic speakers.

I originally started off with Q series speakers, comparing to B&W. The Qs were epic, although the bug got me and ended up with R series. Still have the Q's as surrounds though, (150s, but did for a while have 350s but for surrounds in my room they were too physically large for the space).
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post #18723 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilH930 View Post
Q350s punch way above their weight IMO. Fantastic speakers.

I originally started off with Q series speakers, comparing to B&W. The Qs were epic, although the bug got me and ended up with R series. Still have the Q's as surrounds though, (150s, but did for a while have 350s but for surrounds in my room they were too physically large for the space).
Thanks, Phil. I'm deciding between those and the LS50 or LS50w - the latter due to what it seems it would cost me to amplify the passive LS50s. However, for a medium-sized HT/music hybrid 2.1 or setup, I feel like the Q350 would be the better all-arounder considering cost, room dimensions and ability to suffice with a cheaper amp(?).

Reading this thread where people are saying it takes an amp like the NAD M10 to make the LS50s sing definitely makes me apprehensive about those...
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post #18724 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by spooky action View Post
Thanks, Phil. I'm deciding between those and the LS50 or LS50w - the latter due to what it seems it would cost me to amplify the passive LS50s. However, for a medium-sized HT/music hybrid 2.1 or setup, I feel like the Q350 would be the better all-arounder considering cost, room dimensions and ability to suffice with a cheaper amp(?).



Reading this thread where people are saying it takes an amp like the NAD M10 to make the LS50s sing definitely makes me apprehensive about those...
It is not only because of the build on amplifier that ls50w produced better sound quality. The sound quality improvement in ls50w vs ls50 is because of

1. Digital cross over.
2. DSP to fix any non uniformity in the speaker freq. Response. Built in can do much better than room eq.
3. DSP to avoid areas of spl and frequency where ls50 may distort excessively. That protecton allows it to go deeper in bass than ls50.
4. Built in separate amps for tweeter and woofers.

Hope it helps.
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post #18725 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
It is not only because of the build on amplifier that ls50w produced better sound quality. The sound quality improvement in ls50w vs ls50 is because of

1. Digital cross over.
2. DSP to fix any non uniformity in the speaker freq. Response. Built in can do much better than room eq.
3. DSP to avoid areas of spl and frequency where ls50 may distort excessively. That protecton allows it to go deeper in bass than ls50.
4. Built in separate amps for tweeter and woofers.

Hope it helps.
Thanks SoCal. I have read about some of those improvements in this thread and elsewhere online, others are new to me. The improvements and the "all-in-one" package makes the wireless a very attractive option. Do you think the LS50W plus sub (if necessary) would be a better way to go than the Q350s with a separate amp and sub for my use case (mostly music; sports; kids movies)?

I'm starting to envision it and it's making sense. AC power, line from sub, ethernet cable to connect L + R, Optical cable to TV, and Spotify through TV and/or streamer/alexa dot into AUX of the LS50 (EDIT: or just wirelessly!).

Pretty clean setup.

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post #18726 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 02:45 PM
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My walnut Q150s finally shipped today after a month of being on back order. Very exciting!
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post #18727 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
My walnut Q150s finally shipped today after a month of being on back order. Very exciting!
I just LOVE the color combination of those! Gotta be one of the best-looking speakers on the market, with the bonus of actually sounding GREAT!

Congratulations, and very anxious to see your report on your impressions once you've had some time with them. Do remember, they won't need the same placement and toe-in of other speakers that you're familiar with using.
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post #18728 of 18994 Old 09-27-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I just LOVE the color combination of those! Gotta be one of the best-looking speakers on the market, with the bonus of actually sounding GREAT!

Congratulations, and very anxious to see your report on your impressions once you've had some time with them. Do remember, they won't need the same placement and toe-in of other speakers that you're familiar with using.

They are nice-looking, yes. It might be a little while before I set everything up - I'm still debating where to put things. It'll either be in the same room as my HT, or I will move it all to the studio/common area in our condo.

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post #18729 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 12:56 AM
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A quick question. Suggestion on adding speakers to get a 5.1.2 set up with kef. starting with a pair of Ls50 ? I see Kef has Modules, But would they fit ontop?

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post #18730 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by denslayer View Post
A quick question. Suggestion on adding speakers to get a 5.1.2 set up with kef. starting with a pair of Ls50 ? I see Kef has Modules, But would they fit ontop?
If you're going to go 5.1.2, you'd be better off going with heights instead of upfiring.
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post #18731 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky action View Post
Thanks, Phil. I'm deciding between those and the LS50 or LS50w - the latter due to what it seems it would cost me to amplify the passive LS50s. However, for a medium-sized HT/music hybrid 2.1 or setup, I feel like the Q350 would be the better all-arounder considering cost, room dimensions and ability to suffice with a cheaper amp(?).

Reading this thread where people are saying it takes an amp like the NAD M10 to make the LS50s sing definitely makes me apprehensive about those...
When I upgraded to LS50 (passive) from Q100's I was using my Denon X3400 to drive them. The sound quality improvement was immediately apparent.

So what's your point, Pase? Better speakers will have a far greater impact on sound quality than the electronics. Yes a good amp will certainly help, but not absolutely critical. You wouldn't need to spend thousands on an amp either. As an example, a Marantz PM8006 or Yamaha A-S501/701 would be plenty. A mid to higher end AVR could easily drive them without issue as well.
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post #18732 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
It is not only because of the build on amplifier that ls50w produced better sound quality. The sound quality improvement in ls50w vs ls50 is because of

1. Digital cross over.
2. DSP to fix any non uniformity in the speaker freq. Response. Built in can do much better than room eq.
3. DSP to avoid areas of spl and frequency where ls50 may distort excessively. That protecton allows it to go deeper in bass than ls50.
4. Built in separate amps for tweeter and woofers.

Hope it helps.
All of what you say is true, and the only one most people notice immediately is the little bit deeper bass in the LS50 Wireless.

The other differences are there, but VERY subtle and in normal use at reasonable volume the two versions of the speaker really are a lot closer to each other than one might think.

Does it take over $2000 worth of amplifier and DSP to make them match closer, as my dealer claims? Absolutely not. I'm of the opinion that you get 98% of the main benefit of the refined Uni-Q driver and inert cabinets of the passive LS50 with a decent AVR, truly good DSP, and well-executed room correction. The fact that I spent $2100 on an NAD M10 isn't based upon I need that dollar investment to get the best sound. Nope...I just wanted a compact, VERY cool all-in-one box that integrates with my other Bluesound gear in two other parts of the house.

One thing I know I'll never face is connectivity issues between my speakers. Additionally, if the world fell apart and my M10 failed I could in the next instant throw my old Denon AVR on and still play my LS50's.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #18733 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
All of what you say is true, and the only one most people notice immediately is the little bit deeper bass in the LS50 Wireless.

The other differences are there, but VERY subtle and in normal use at reasonable volume the two versions of the speaker really are a lot closer to each other than one might think.

Does it take over $2000 worth of amplifier and DSP to make them match closer, as my dealer claims? Absolutely not. I'm of the opinion that you get 98% of the main benefit of the refined Uni-Q driver and inert cabinets of the passive LS50 with a decent AVR, truly good DSP, and well-executed room correction. The fact that I spent $2100 on an NAD M10 isn't based upon I need that dollar investment to get the best sound. Nope...I just wanted a compact, VERY cool all-in-one box that integrates with my other Bluesound gear in two other parts of the house.

One thing I know I'll never face is connectivity issues between my speakers. Additionally, if the world fell apart and my M10 failed I could in the next instant throw my old Denon AVR on and still play my LS50's.
What about something like the Yamaha RX-V685 to drive either the Q350s or LS50s? Output is 90 W @ 8 ohms, 0.06% THD for 2 channels driven? Asking because it is it would also work nicely with my display for the HT application. Hell, if that is sufficient my 10+ year old Denon 2808ci appears to have even better amplification and could be workable (110 @ 8)

Last edited by spooky action; 09-28-2019 at 05:52 AM.
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post #18734 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by spooky action View Post
What about something like the Yamaha RX-V685 to drive either the Q350s or LS50s? Output is 90 W @ 8 ohms, 0.06% THD for 2 channels driven? Asking because it is it would also work nicely with my display for the HT application. Hell, if that is sufficient my 10+ year old Denon 2808ci appears to have even better amplification and could be workable (110 @ 8)
Either one would work fine. I'd probably choose the Denon, because I already have it. If not 'feeling it', then buy something else.

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post #18735 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 11:32 AM
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Through my lack of understand of the Bryston SP3 setup process selecting DVD outputs audio through the front LR speakers as expected, but selecting Cable outputs audio through the LR surrounds -- I need to fix that. The relevance of this observation, though, is that I've had the opportunity to hear the NAD 328 drive the LS50s with the front LR signal, and the sound is clean and impressive. The NAD 328s are fairly inexpensive Class D amps, very energy efficient, and seem to do a splendid job driving the LS50s. I'm impressed.
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post #18736 of 18994 Old 09-28-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
All of what you say is true, and the only one most people notice immediately is the little bit deeper bass in the LS50 Wireless.

The other differences are there, but VERY subtle and in normal use at reasonable volume the two versions of the speaker really are a lot closer to each other than one might think.

Does it take over $2000 worth of amplifier and DSP to make them match closer, as my dealer claims? Absolutely not. I'm of the opinion that you get 98% of the main benefit of the refined Uni-Q driver and inert cabinets of the passive LS50 with a decent AVR, truly good DSP, and well-executed room correction. The fact that I spent $2100 on an NAD M10 isn't based upon I need that dollar investment to get the best sound. Nope...I just wanted a compact, VERY cool all-in-one box that integrates with my other Bluesound gear in two other parts of the house.

One thing I know I'll never face is connectivity issues between my speakers. Additionally, if the world fell apart and my M10 failed I could in the next instant throw my old Denon AVR on and still play my LS50's.
I agree, although I don't think it is any 'DSP magic' beyond literally just hitting a bass bump EQ that you can do yourself. As bass makes up a massive amount of our enjoyment from music, comparing LS50s to LS50w feels like a huge jump just because a lot of that missing bass people complain about with the LS50s is suddenly present again.

The frequency chart comparisons between the two models don't seem to show a massive difference beyond the bass.

The other differences were barely perceptible to me. Not worth the added cost when you consider the inflexibility of the setup + you are at the mercy of electronic failure within the speakers themselves.
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post #18737 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 01:52 AM
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Just as a matter of interest, this is my LS50s when EQed with Anthem ARC (from the listening position).

Pretty close to what is claimed for the LS50W.
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post #18738 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 05:19 AM
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Just as a matter of interest, this is my LS50s when EQed with Anthem ARC (from the listening position).

Pretty close to what is claimed for the LS50W.
What model Anthem amp?

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post #18739 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 09:15 AM
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I've also been curious about the DSP filters in the LS50w, I've mentioned before that if someone wanted to see exactly what the DSP is doing you could buy a cheap ethernet to 3.5 mm cable and run it from the Main LS50w to a laptop and measure the signal in REW. This would show exactly what it's doing and you could check the different bass and treble settings to see how much of a boost each one does. I would think at the minimum, the wireless version fixes the 2k peak in the LS50 passive version, along with the bass boost of course.
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post #18740 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 11:44 AM
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Update,going with what you all have recommended 3 ea Kef Q100's.
Soon as I can sell my unused q800ds's, wife doesn't want rear surround at home.

Will need a small sub as the cabinet space is 14" high, 14"deep and 21" wide, recommendations?
I would prefer a no port or port in front, tight bass vs boom...

Thanks

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post #18741 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 05:34 PM
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Update,going with what you all have recommended 3 ea Kef c100's.
Soon as I can sell my unused q800ds's, wife doesn't want rear surround at home.

Will need a small sub as the cabinet space is 14" high, 14"deep and 21" wide, recommendations?
I would prefer a no port or port in front, tight bass vs boom...

Thanks
I'm very happy with my SVS SB2000. Sounds nice and tight to me and definitely enough bass (sadly too much for my partner, boo hoo). I would like a second one to even out the bass around the room though.

People here are raving about the Kube 10b and 12b but I haven't heard those.

If I was buying a sub now, I would also look into the Rhythmik servo subs, but I'm not sure if they're available here in Australia.

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post #18742 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 06:14 PM
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I've also been curious about the DSP filters in the LS50w, I've mentioned before that if someone wanted to see exactly what the DSP is doing you could buy a cheap ethernet to 3.5 mm cable and run it from the Main LS50w to a laptop and measure the signal in REW. This would show exactly what it's doing and you could check the different bass and treble settings to see how much of a boost each one does. I would think at the minimum, the wireless version fixes the 2k peak in the LS50 passive version, along with the bass boost of course.
It would be very interesting to see that chart. So it's just standard line-level analog between the two speakers?

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post #18743 of 18994 Old 09-29-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by caryt View Post
Update,going with what you all have recommended 3 ea Kef c100's.
Soon as I can sell my unused q800ds's, wife doesn't want rear surround at home.

Will need a small sub as the cabinet space is 14" high, 14"deep and 21" wide, recommendations?
I would prefer a no port or port in front, tight bass vs boom...

Thanks
A KEF Kube 10b would fit in there just fine and is exactly what you're looking for!

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post #18744 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 07:16 AM
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Thanks!
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post #18745 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post
Just as a matter of interest, this is my LS50s when EQed with Anthem ARC (from the listening position).



Pretty close to what is claimed for the LS50W.
I am no expert on room correction and don't know exactly how ls50w's dsp correction is done. But I have read several places that correcting a speaker based on anechoic data is superior to in-room correction. In fact many writers claim that room correction above the transition frequency hurts the perceived sound quality more than it helps, even though the frequency curves becomes smoother.

I think one of the places I had read that (though not sure) was in Dr. Toole's latest book.
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post #18746 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 09:23 AM
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Quick question on the LS50W: Recognizing that the Right speaker in the pair is the master with all of the inputs, if I place the master on the left side of my setup (TV), am I committing some form of sacrilege or, more importantly, hobbling the potential quality/experience I can achieve them?
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post #18747 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 09:24 AM
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My Q150s arrive today! Sadly, though, I won't be at home when they do, so I'll likely have to pick them up from the PO tomorrow afternoon.
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Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #18748 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I'm very happy with my SVS SB2000. Sounds nice and tight to me and definitely enough bass (sadly too much for my partner, boo hoo). I would like a second one to even out the bass around the room though.

People here are raving about the Kube 10b and 12b but I haven't heard those.

If I was buying a sub now, I would also look into the Rhythmik servo subs, but I'm not sure if they're available here in Australia.
I'm in the same boat! I hear great things about the Kube 10 & 12, but I don't really feel I need to upgrade since I have no complaints about the SB-2000. My plan was to get a 2nd one, but that ship sank when I bought the LS50's & NAD amp instead. I have absolutely no regrets because both were worth every dime!
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Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #18749 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 05:33 PM
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I am no expert on room correction and don't know exactly how ls50w's dsp correction is done. But I have read several places that correcting a speaker based on anechoic data is superior to in-room correction. In fact many writers claim that room correction above the transition frequency hurts the perceived sound quality more than it helps, even though the frequency curves becomes smoother.

I think one of the places I had read that (though not sure) was in Dr. Toole's latest book.
I've read the same thing. Above the transition frequency you're causing more problems than you're fixing. I believe it's because the directivity increases the higher the frequency is, so you can only calibrate precisely for the tiny area where the mic is located. If you change your listening position even by a few cm, you are messing up the response.

So what you want is just the smooth dropoff when going off-axis that good speakers are designed to have (especially Kefs), and your brain will do a good job of making sense of that sound.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.

Last edited by noobtv; 09-30-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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post #18750 of 18994 Old 09-30-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I'm in the same boat! I hear great things about the Kube 10 & 12, but I don't really feel I need to upgrade since I have no complaints about the SB-2000. My plan was to get a 2nd one, but that ship sank when I bought the LS50's & NAD amp instead. I have absolutely no regrets because both were worth every dime!
Can't you still buy a second sub and use a splitter?

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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