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post #19141 of 19222 Old 11-29-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
If willing to buy used via internet, there's US Audiomart, Audiogon, eBay, Craigslist, and many dealers have demo stock.

an example: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...mages/2482314/

P.S. - That particular one is ideal. Jump on it!
My apologies! I was thinking Anthem MCA 225.

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post #19142 of 19222 Old 11-29-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Loafing oaf View Post
Hi all, I have been lucky enough to inherit a pair of Kef Reference 205/2 and was looking for advice on a receiver.
I have a low budget unfortunately (might be able to go to $1k) so I understand I will not be getting the best out of them, but I want to get them going at least and then upgrade later. Obviously I don't want to damage them by getting too low end but I don't want them rotting in my closet either.
any recommendations?

Wow! that's nice.
I have their smaller brother 203's with 202c 204ds and various HTS2001
I was running a Yamaha RX A3040 with the Kefs and it was more than adequate. Now have a Denon AVCX8500h although that might be out of budget.... But a late model second user may be the way to go. Yamaha RX A3070 or even may get you a 3080.

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post #19143 of 19222 Old 11-29-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Loafing oaf View Post
Hi all, I have been lucky enough to inherit a pair of Kef Reference 205/2 and was looking for advice on a receiver.

I have a low budget unfortunately (might be able to go to $1k) so I understand I will not be getting the best out of them, but I want to get them going at least and then upgrade later. Obviously I don't want to damage them by getting too low end but I don't want them rotting in my closet either.

any recommendations?


Ken already asked but if going 2 channel only I would recommend an integrated amp with a DAC if possible. There are also some stereo receiver options also.


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post #19144 of 19222 Old 11-29-2019, 03:59 PM
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thanks for all the responses. It sounds like there are a lot of options in the price range. I don't have to go to $3-4k at first.
I can't wait to get them up and running.
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post #19145 of 19222 Old 11-30-2019, 01:04 PM
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How are the T301's for center/left/right? The bundle is on sale, but the return policy kinda stinks if I don't like them

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post #19146 of 19222 Old 11-30-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Loafing oaf View Post
thanks for all the responses. It sounds like there are a lot of options in the price range. I don't have to go to $3-4k at first.
I can't wait to get them up and running.
If the 205/2s are anything like the 207/2s I had, I'd look for used amps with high current delivery capabilities. The Parasound JC 1 monoblocks (400 [email protected]Ω, [email protected]Ω) really brought the 207/2s to life even in low-bias mode (Class A to 10 watts), but a stereo Parasound A21 might do a decent job.
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post #19147 of 19222 Old 11-30-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Morphx2 View Post
How are the T301's for center/left/right? The bundle is on sale, but the return policy kinda stinks if I don't like them
They are very good speakers, certainly more performance than most folk expect for a thin speaker.

What is your application, in how big of a room and how far from them would you sit?

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post #19148 of 19222 Old 11-30-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Morphx2 View Post
How are the T301's for center/left/right? The bundle is on sale, but the return policy kinda stinks if I don't like them
They are very good speakers, certainly more performance than most folk expect for a thin speaker.

What is your application, in how big of a room and how far from them would you sit?

Thanks for the response. Mostly movies and tv. Thin speakers to appease my wife. It's a 15 long, 11 width, 9 height room. The side wall opens up to a hallway connecting the dining room/kitchen.

Sitting around 13 to 14 feet back

Right front speaker would be right near the other side wall too.

Trying out a kef Q150 (wife says no bookshelf) and the klipsch r820F right now (too big)

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post #19149 of 19222 Old 11-30-2019, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Morphx2 View Post
Thanks for the response. Mostly movies and tv. Thin speakers to appease my wife. It's a 15 long, 11 width, 9 height room. The side wall opens up to a hallway connecting the dining room/kitchen.

Sitting around 13 to 14 feet back

Right front speaker would be right near the other side wall too.

Trying out a kef Q150 (wife says no bookshelf) and the klipsch r820F right now (too big)
That's kind of far away, and about where I sit with my system. Those speakers would be working, and the AVR working harder if you like anywhere near reference levels. If more 'normal' levels of being able to carry on a conversation at slightly elevated tones while a movie is playing, they'll work fine. You just want to stay away from their limits.

As much as I like and endorse KEF, I really think the speakers you should be looking at would be Totem Tribe on-wall series. Big step-up in budget, but all theirs can take more power and give better output. Many choices of finish too (on their more expensive ones.) You might be able to swing the Tribe I or Tribe II near the budget for others you've been considering, though the Tribe III & IV are truly stellar.

https://totemacoustic.com/categorie-...ation/on-wall/

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post #19150 of 19222 Old 12-01-2019, 10:18 PM
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I just tried that. When I have no toe-in at all I loose the phantom center image. Right know my ear is 10ft. from the speakers and the speakers are 9ft 8inches apart. I tried toe-in at 25 degree aiming with a laser to each side of the chair. The result was a wide soundstage, center imaging but flat muffled sound. Currently have them at about 35 degree toe-in aimed with a laser at opposing side of the chair so the direct sound overlaps at the MLP.

With KEFs what is the usually or average setup?

I have a 10ft screen to deal with so I can not have them any closer than 9ft if they are are 3ft from the front wall.
I have been working on placing the KEF Q900 properly. Originally I had not had them setup optimally. Currently they are 3ft from the back and side wall, toed-in so that the direct sound is about a foot from each ear. They sound better now. But the uni-que sounds a bit fatiguing. When I apply audessey it seems to tame it a bit, but kills the liveliness. I do not have an Audessey editor when you can turn of the eq of 300hz if you choose. Also, I do have a bit of depth, but not as much as I would like. My room my also be a big factor.

If I were to move up to the next series of KEFs how much of an improvement would I see?

Any other Q900/Q950 users with suggestion on setup?

Thanks for reading and any suggestions.
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post #19151 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesyates View Post
I have been working on placing the KEF Q900 properly. Originally I had not had them setup optimally. Currently they are 3ft from the back and side wall, toed-in so that the direct sound is about a foot from each ear. They sound better now. But the uni-que sounds a bit fatiguing. When I apply audessey it seems to tame it a bit, but kills the liveliness. I do not have an Audessey editor when you can turn of the eq of 300hz if you choose. Also, I do have a bit of depth, but not as much as I would like. My room my also be a big factor.

If I were to move up to the next series of KEFs how much of an improvement would I see?

Any other Q900/Q950 users with suggestion on setup?

Thanks for reading and any suggestions.
My first suggestion is to not have the Uni-Q drivers pointing directly "about a foot from each ear." Get rid of most of that toe-in, point them more straight ahead. That will ease fatigue, and at the same time create a better soundstage with greater depth.

Working on the room reflections is cheaper than new speakers and you'll eventually be doing it with better speakers too.
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post #19152 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
My first suggestion is to not have the Uni-Q drivers pointing directly "about a foot from each ear." Get rid of most of that toe-in, point them more straight ahead. That will ease fatigue, and at the same time create a better soundstage with greater depth.

Working on the room reflections is cheaper than new speakers and you'll eventually be doing it with better speakers too.
Thanks. I have tried to put them straight ahead without toe-in and the soundstage is wide but I loose phantom imaging. I will try toeing them in less. The less toe-in the better seem to work so far. Reflection may be a problem. I don't want to mess with the first reflection, but will try to treat after that. I have the back of the room treated.

The odd thing is that audessey props up the higher frequency as much as 6db. It almost seem that midrange is missing making the higher frequencies irritating. Audessey seems to balance the sound out, but takes all the air out of the speaker. I am not a fan of Audessey for this reason.
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post #19153 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 09:14 AM
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Thanks. I have tried to put them straight ahead without toe-in and the soundstage is wide but I loose phantom imaging. I will try toeing them in less. The less toe-in the better seem to work so far. Reflection may be a problem. I don't want to mess with the first reflection, but will try to treat after that. I have the back of the room treated.

The odd thing is that audessey props up the higher frequency as much as 6db. It almost seem that midrange is missing making the higher frequencies irritating. Audessey seems to balance the sound out, but takes all the air out of the speaker. I am not a fan of Audessey for this reason.
If you have good speakers and they're properly placed, audyssey won't really do much. I just let speakers do their thing and just eq below 300hz for music where it's needed in my room. Movies/HT is a different story though.

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post #19154 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 09:23 AM
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If you have good speakers and they're properly placed, audyssey won't really do much. I just let speakers do their thing and just eq below 300hz for music where it's needed in my room. Movies/HT is a different story though.
Yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, my AVR Marantz AV7702MK2 will not let me control Audessey to only equalize under 300Hz. I have been using the equalizer to do this. The KEF Q900 are suppose to be good speaker that are flat so I am trying to get them to function properly in my room. Stereophile put them on the recommended list in 2012. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...speaker-page-2 Either stereophile is wrong or I have them setup improperly and have room problems.

Also, I should add when I measure the REW the room is relatively flat until under 300Hz in the lower bass regions.

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post #19155 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesyates View Post
Yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, my AVR Marantz AV7702MK2 will not let me control Audessey to only equalize under 300Hz. I have been using the equalizer to do this. The KEF Q900 are suppose to be good speaker that are flat so I am trying to get them to function properly in my room. Stereophile put them on the recommended list in 2012. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...speaker-page-2 Either stereophile is wrong or I have them setup improperly and have room problems.

Also, I should add when I measure the REW the room is relatively flat until under 300Hz in the lower bass regions.
Are you running full range or using a sub(s)? How much space from back and side walls?

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post #19156 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 10:41 AM
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Are you running full range or using a sub(s)? How much space from back and side walls?
3ft from back and side walls. I can not move out much further due to a 9ft. screen. Two subwoofers currently at 80hz, next week 4x 10inch monolith thx. subs.
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post #19157 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 11:26 AM
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I'm going to setup a separate system from my 5.1 AVR just for 2 channel music. I'm currently arranging for a demo of the KEF R series. What I want to ask everyone here is what amp do you recommend that'll go well with the R series? I listen to mostly jazz and some rock at low-moderate levels (~70dB at listening position) in a 12'x25' room.

I've heard that Hegel often uses KEF speakers in their demos, so I've been looking at something like the Hegel H190, which has great reviews.
What about tube amps? Is there any "synergy" there between the R series and tube amps?

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post #19158 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 11:59 AM
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Well.....The Kube 10's came in this morning. I already knew where they needed to go which saved time, but haven't ruled out trying different configurations. Ran audyssey (3 times to get the sub levels right) and have been running music through them for the last 2 hours. So far I'm loving that the bass is coming nowhere and everywhere and seems effortless. I have a some tweeking and experimentation to do in the next few days, but so far I'm not disappointed.
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post #19159 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tpro8 View Post
I'm going to setup a separate system from my 5.1 AVR just for 2 channel music. I'm currently arranging for a demo of the KEF R series. What I want to ask everyone here is what amp do you recommend that'll go well with the R series? I listen to mostly jazz and some rock at low-moderate levels (~70dB at listening position) in a 12'x25' room.

I've heard that Hegel often uses KEF speakers in their demos, so I've been looking at something like the Hegel H190, which has great reviews.
What about tube amps? Is there any "synergy" there between the R series and tube amps?
I have the R500's. When I was shopping I heard them on a Parasound Halo 5 Integrated and it was quite good. They are part of my 5.1.2 system however, so mine are powered by a NAD T758v3. I think the new R series is just a touch warmer than the previous series, so a tube amp might be a but much in that vein. The Hegel 190 is a great choice, but try to audition a Naim Uniti Nova or Star. I heard the new R7's on a Naim Uniti Atom and was stunned by the sound!

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post #19160 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 05:11 PM
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I have been working on placing the KEF Q900 properly. Originally I had not had them setup optimally. Currently they are 3ft from the back and side wall, toed-in so that the direct sound is about a foot from each ear. They sound better now. But the uni-que sounds a bit fatiguing. When I apply audessey it seems to tame it a bit, but kills the liveliness. I do not have an Audessey editor when you can turn of the eq of 300hz if you choose. Also, I do have a bit of depth, but not as much as I would like. My room my also be a big factor.

If I were to move up to the next series of KEFs how much of an improvement would I see?

Any other Q900/Q950 users with suggestion on setup?

Thanks for reading and any suggestions.

FWIW in my untreated and vastly suboptimal room I prefer the Q900s facing forward, not toed in.


I always listen to music with Dolby surround turned on though, so it's using my Q600 center - there's no phantom center.


I like my setup but I'm still contemplating getting another sub to even out the bass response and moving to LS50 or R3 for mains and an R2c.


Still not sure if I should just wait until we move to a better laid out place or if I'll see much improvement even in this room. I suspect the room layout might be the limiting thing here.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
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post #19161 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 05:47 PM
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Thanks. I have tried to put them straight ahead without toe-in and the soundstage is wide but I loose phantom imaging. I will try toeing them in less. The less toe-in the better seem to work so far. Reflection may be a problem. I don't want to mess with the first reflection, but will try to treat after that. I have the back of the room treated.

The odd thing is that audessey props up the higher frequency as much as 6db. It almost seem that midrange is missing making the higher frequencies irritating. Audessey seems to balance the sound out, but takes all the air out of the speaker. I am not a fan of Audessey for this reason.
Exactly my experience with Audyssey, and why I'm now so happy with my NAD T758v3 and Dirac Live. Being able to see what response the speakers have and how the corrections work has been a revelation.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #19162 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 08:38 PM
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FWIW in my untreated and vastly suboptimal room I prefer the Q900s facing forward, not toed in.
AFAIK, the Uni-Q drivers are pretty much designed to be facing forward?

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post #19163 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 08:40 PM
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Well.....The Kube 10's came in this morning. I already knew where they needed to go which saved time, but haven't ruled out trying different configurations. Ran audyssey (3 times to get the sub levels right) and have been running music through them for the last 2 hours. So far I'm loving that the bass is coming nowhere and everywhere and seems effortless. I have a some tweeking and experimentation to do in the next few days, but so far I'm not disappointed.
Meant to comment earlier - congrats, and enjoy!

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post #19164 of 19222 Old 12-02-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
FWIW in my untreated and vastly suboptimal room I prefer the Q900s facing forward, not toed in.


I always listen to music with Dolby surround turned on though, so it's using my Q600 center - there's no phantom center.


I like my setup but I'm still contemplating getting another sub to even out the bass response and moving to LS50 or R3 for mains and an R2c.


Still not sure if I should just wait until we move to a better laid out place or if I'll see much improvement even in this room. I suspect the room layout might be the limiting thing here.
I have the same setup with the 600c center. I use Auro 3D but am not leaning back into stereo listening.

Ken-suggested treating reflection. I did so roughly with fiberglass acoustical panels and saw a big improvement in 3d imaging and height. The speakers are still toed-in. I tried them straight forward again but the phantom image was gone. Toed them in until the phantom center came back. They toed-in about 25 degrees. Without toe-in I just get two speakers and no center imaging.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Does anyone else have the Q series toed-in?
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post #19165 of 19222 Old 12-03-2019, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesyates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
FWIW in my untreated and vastly suboptimal room I prefer the Q900s facing forward, not toed in.


I always listen to music with Dolby surround turned on though, so it's using my Q600 center - there's no phantom center.


I like my setup but I'm still contemplating getting another sub to even out the bass response and moving to LS50 or R3 for mains and an R2c.


Still not sure if I should just wait until we move to a better laid out place or if I'll see much improvement even in this room. I suspect the room layout might be the limiting thing here.
I have the same setup with the 600c center. I use Auro 3D but am not leaning back into stereo listening.

Ken-suggested treating reflection. I did so roughly with fiberglass acoustical panels and saw a big improvement in 3d imaging and height. The speakers are still toed-in. I tried them straight forward again but the phantom image was gone. Toed them in until the phantom center came back. They toed-in about 25 degrees. Without toe-in I just get two speakers and no center imaging.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Does anyone else have the Q series toed-in?
Yes, with my 5.1ch setup consisting of 5 Q150s and Rythmik L12 sub. I set nearfield (just under 2m) and one seat right of dead center. Front speakers are toed in to cross just behind the MLP (technically dead center seat, not the one seat right I sit at). Like you said helps focus phantom center imaging in stereo and even helps with music upmixed via Dolby Surround or 5.1ch or higher content like movies and TV shows. I like getting the on axis treble from my Q150s as they are laid back to begin with unlike the previous Q100s.

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post #19166 of 19222 Old 12-03-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
FWIW in my untreated and vastly suboptimal room I prefer the Q900s facing forward, not toed in.


I always listen to music with Dolby surround turned on though, so it's using my Q600 center - there's no phantom center.


I like my setup but I'm still contemplating getting another sub to even out the bass response and moving to LS50 or R3 for mains and an R2c.


Still not sure if I should just wait until we move to a better laid out place or if I'll see much improvement even in this room. I suspect the room layout might be the limiting thing here.
I'm slowly discovering the benefits of having dual subs and really liking the results thus far. It will be a very big adjustment going from Q900's to LS50's. You lose the dynamics, but detail and clarity are fantastic and dual subs will add a lot more depth.
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post #19167 of 19222 Old 12-03-2019, 05:46 PM
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Anyone tried removing the KEF logo from the front of a Q150? I'd like to use one as a center, but I think the logo off to one side would drive me bananas.
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post #19168 of 19222 Old 12-03-2019, 07:25 PM
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Anyone tried removing the KEF logo from the front of a Q150? I'd like to use one as a center, but I think the logo off to one side would drive me bananas.
I haven't tried deliberately removing the logo plate from my 1st generation R series, but it's the same as the one on the current Q series without machining the raised letters after anodizing the aluminum L-shaped casting black. It's on there pretty good with a strong automotive quality adhesive.

My best guess would be on the best way to remove those without damage is to use a thin (6-10lb test) monofilament fishing line with a "sawing" action. You may have to use alcohol or acetone (fingernail polish remover) to get the adhesive off. Test on a small area at the bottom or rear of the speaker first!

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post #19169 of 19222 Old 12-03-2019, 08:44 PM
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Anyone tried removing the KEF logo from the front of a Q150? I'd like to use one as a center, but I think the logo off to one side would drive me bananas.

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post #19170 of 19222 Old 12-04-2019, 08:59 AM
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I picked up two pairs of Q50a Atmos modules on Cyber Monday for a great price. I haven't had much of a chance to listen yet, my system is now 4.1.4.



Main System: Vizio P70 4K TV. Selah Vigore Speakers. KEF Q100 Rear L/R, Mirage BPS 400 LFE Sub. (2x)Rythmik FM8 Subs. Denon AVR-X4500H Receiver. Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Integrated (2 channel). Oppo BDP-103. Zappiti Mini 4K HDR. GIK 242 Panels, Tri Traps, Monster Bass Trap. Various Vicoustic Desktop: Dynaudio BM6A mkII. Paradigm SUB10 w/ PBK. Cambridge DACMagic+ DAC. GIK 242 Panels, Monster Bass Trap Master Bedroom: Vizio M55 4K HDR. BG Radia In-Wall/Ceiling Speakers (5.2.2). NAD T758v3 Receiver
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