KEF Owners Thread - Page 687 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20581 of 20704 Old 06-26-2020, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
If the digital cable is copper the signal is in fact essentially analog, i.e. square waves. A copper digital cable is subject to RF and EMF just as analog cables TMK.

I don’t discount that a quality cable can make a difference, just that it is often very subtle. Could you hear the difference with Kef eggs? I would doubt it but with Reference 5’s and say Soulution electronics, quite likely. In my 30s I would spend many hours doing comparisons so I knew I could repeat and not be duped. Now in my early 60s I know I don’t have the same capabilities and certainly don’t have the tenacity to spend several days trying to prove or disprove a difference.

In the 90s I found Audioquest interconnect superior to Monster at similar price points. Today I use Mogami Gold XLRs and BJC 10 gauge speaker wire with locking bananas fused to the wire. Could I get better sound, possibly but not for anywhere close to similar outlay.

And I don’t doubt that you can hear the differences you note on your system.


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"if the digital cable is copper the signal is in fact essentially analog, i.e. square waves. A copper digital cable is subject to RF and EMF just as analog cables TMK."

Yes, but a digital signal is always reconstructed at the receiving end. So any signal changes are immaterial.

But if you don't agree, that is ok as well.

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Last edited by SouthernCA; 06-27-2020 at 03:32 PM.
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post #20582 of 20704 Old 06-28-2020, 11:02 PM
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Hi, wish to seek advice for a better AVR for R3, and future incoming R2C.
My current AVR is Denon X1300W.
The R3 has rated power 15-180w.
The R2C has rated power of 15-200w.
What are the Upcoming mid range AVR that is recommended?
My room is around 880cuFt.
I suppose there’s no point to get a 200w per channel AVR that is expensive since my room is small and won’t be driving at 200w?
Or is it just as simple as just choosing an AVR that can supply the power that falls within the rated power of the spk?
Should a AVR with Dirac be the choice?
I prefer an AVR unit for home theatre and music & due to room space limitation.
Thanks.

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Last edited by eurovtec; 06-29-2020 at 12:28 AM.
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post #20583 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Hi, wish to seek advice for a better AVR for R3, and future incoming R2C.
My current AVR is Denon X1300W.
The R3 has rated power 15-180w.
The R2C has rated power of 15-200w.
What are the Upcoming mid range AVR that is recommended?
My room is around 880cuFt.
I suppose there’s no point to get a 200w per channel AVR that is expensive since my room is small and won’t be driving at 200w?
Or is it just as simple as just choosing an AVR that can supply the power that falls within the rated power of the spk?
Should a AVR with Dirac be the choice?
I prefer an AVR unit for home theatre and music & due to room space limitation.
Thanks.

Anything from Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, NAD, or Anthem will be perfectly fine for power, don't worry about this. Just get the best feature set that fits your budget.
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post #20584 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Hi, wish to seek advice for a better AVR for R3, and future incoming R2C.
My current AVR is Denon X1300W.
The R3 has rated power 15-180w.
The R2C has rated power of 15-200w.
What are the Upcoming mid range AVR that is recommended?
My room is around 880cuFt.
I suppose there’s no point to get a 200w per channel AVR that is expensive since my room is small and won’t be driving at 200w?
Or is it just as simple as just choosing an AVR that can supply the power that falls within the rated power of the spk?
Should a AVR with Dirac be the choice?
I prefer an AVR unit for home theatre and music & due to room space limitation.
Thanks.
R3's and all Kef for that matter crave power. You could certainly drive them with an AVR, but would certainly benefit from an external amp, especially if you listen to music. Get the lowest model AVR with pre-outs and add an external amp which will depend on budget.
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post #20585 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Hi, wish to seek advice for a better AVR for R3, and future incoming R2C.

My current AVR is Denon X1300W.

The R3 has rated power 15-180w.

The R2C has rated power of 15-200w.

What are the Upcoming mid range AVR that is recommended?

My room is around 880cuFt.

I suppose there’s no point to get a 200w per channel AVR that is expensive since my room is small and won’t be driving at 200w?

Or is it just as simple as just choosing an AVR that can supply the power that falls within the rated power of the spk?

Should a AVR with Dirac be the choice?

I prefer an AVR unit for home theatre and music & due to room space limitation.

Thanks.
Just heard that R5 is now heavily discounted and selling at close to R3 price. Check it out.

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post #20586 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Just heard that R5 is now heavily discounted and selling at close to R3 price. Check it out.

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Where did you "hear" this?

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post #20587 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 05:01 PM
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any kef reference 3 or 5 owners in here? interested to see what amps your driving them with. thanks

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post #20588 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
R3's and all Kef for that matter crave power. You could certainly drive them with an AVR, but would certainly benefit from an external amp, especially if you listen to music. Get the lowest model AVR with pre-outs and add an external amp which will depend on budget.
^^This right here. Whatever you purchase should run the KEFs in that small of a room now, but the idea is to get the receiver that with capabilities for the upgrade in power (external amps) for your next (bigger) place. You'll save several hundred dollars in the long run that could be used towards the amp and subwoofer.

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post #20589 of 20704 Old 06-29-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sb01gt View Post
Anything from Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, NAD, or Anthem will be perfectly fine for power, don't worry about this. Just get the best feature set that fits your budget.
Thanks. Guess it will be Denon then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
R3's and all Kef for that matter crave power. You could certainly drive them with an AVR, but would certainly benefit from an external amp, especially if you listen to music. Get the lowest model AVR with pre-outs and add an external amp which will depend on budget.
Keeping options open for future. So for the stereo amp, I googled and saw models like Nad D3020 V2 which is compact(space saving), 60watts(8ohms). For driving just the R3 & my room size, 60w is enough?
Is there a graph like X axis is the room size and y axis is the amp power where we can get rough estimates of getting the correct rated amp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Just heard that R5 is now heavily discounted and selling at close to R3 price. Check it out.

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No More $$$. Already purchased R3 & R2C(yet to be delivered).
If it’s priced close to R3, then it’s really a good deal!
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post #20590 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
Where did you "hear" this?
In one of the Kef threads here. About a week back. from @airman23

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Last edited by SouthernCA; 06-30-2020 at 06:47 AM.
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post #20591 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Just heard that R5 is now heavily discounted and selling at close to R3 price. Check it out.

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I haven't seen any big discount or price reduction on R5 here in the US.

They actually have a $200 HIGHER list price per pair than they did at introduction in 2018. Back then it was $2800 a pair, a $200 increase over the R500. Now KEFDiect.com is showing $3k per pair.

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post #20592 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I haven't seen any big discount or price reduction on R5 here in the US.

They actually have a $200 HIGHER list price per pair than they did at introduction in 2018. Back then it was $2800 a pair, a $200 increase over the R500. Now KEFDiect.com is showing $3k per pair.
I could be mistaken, but the grilles appear to be included which would reflect the $200 markup.

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post #20593 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post

I could be mistaken, but the grilles appear to be included which would reflect the $200 markup.
Nope. The grilles have always been included with the R series. The reason for the increase is... political. I won't start a discussion about it here.

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post #20594 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
In one of the Kef threads here. About a week back. from @airman23

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He was probably talking about recertified units.

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post #20595 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
He was probably talking about recertified units.

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They can definitely be had for $999 at accessories4less

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post #20596 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 05:08 PM
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KEF R5 setup

I just got my KEF R5 Speakers delivered and hooked up to my receiver. I'm at a quandary as to what speaker setting i should use. I was using a pair of Bookshelf speakers and a sub before. The Sub is a SVS PB-10 ISD. My Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver has settings for full range floor standing speakers like the KEF R5 and bookshelf speakers. If I use the "Large speaker setting I seem to loose the subwoofer.

I can set the speaker setting to "Small" in speakers setup in the receiver and set the crossover cutoff at 40Hz. My question is what speaker setting get my subwoofer back in the game without having to increase the gain on the subwoofer volume to un-natural levels.
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post #20597 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airman23 View Post
I just got my KEF R5 Speakers delivered and hooked up to my receiver. I'm at a quandary as to what speaker setting i should use. I was using a pair of Bookshelf speakers and a sub before. The Sub is a SVS PB-10 ISD. My Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver has settings for full range floor standing speakers like the KEF R5 and bookshelf speakers. If I use the "Large speaker setting I seem to loose the subwoofer.

I can set the speaker setting to "Small" in speakers setup in the receiver and set the crossover cutoff at 40Hz. My question is what speaker setting get my subwoofer back in the game without having to increase the gain on the subwoofer volume to un-natural levels.
Set them to small, with crossover at 60-80Hz, and have the LPF setting at 120Hz in the AVR (have the frequency knob on the back of the sub turned to its max).

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post #20598 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airman23 View Post
I just got my KEF R5 Speakers delivered and hooked up to my receiver. I'm at a quandary as to what speaker setting i should use. I was using a pair of Bookshelf speakers and a sub before. The Sub is a SVS PB-10 ISD. My Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver has settings for full range floor standing speakers like the KEF R5 and bookshelf speakers. If I use the "Large speaker setting I seem to loose the subwoofer.

I can set the speaker setting to "Small" in speakers setup in the receiver and set the crossover cutoff at 40Hz. My question is what speaker setting get my subwoofer back in the game without having to increase the gain on the subwoofer volume to un-natural levels.
Run YPAO and manually Set them to small and then set an 80hz crossover in the AVR menu. Let them run on default settings for 3-4 days then start making necessary adjustments. Your sub isn't bad by any means, but there is room for improvement.

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post #20599 of 20704 Old 06-30-2020, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
They can definitely be had for $999 at accessories4less
Airman23 paid somewhat less.

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post #20600 of 20704 Old 07-01-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airman23 View Post
I can set the speaker setting to "Small" in speakers setup in the receiver and set the crossover cutoff at 40Hz. My question is what speaker setting get my subwoofer back in the game without having to increase the gain on the subwoofer volume to un-natural levels.
Here is a nice summary of the "small vs large" settings on AVR from SVS (subwoofer manufacturer):
"Most movie soundtracks are mixed in 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound, and the ".1" subwoofer channel carries much of the deepest bass—things like explosions, revving engines, and sonic action you can feel in your chest and throughout your body. But the main channels often have very low frequencies as well, and those frequencies are much better served from the subwoofer rather than the main speakers. Based on this, we generally recommend designating all the main speakers as "small," which sends the low frequencies in all the main channels to the subwoofer. Of course, if your sound system does not include a subwoofer, bass management is moot. All speakers should be set to "large"—which the AV receiver will probably do automatically if there is no subwoofer connected and you run Audyssey or some form of auto-calibration. Speakers will do their best to reproduce the lowest bass along with the rest of the sonic spectrum."

Regards,
Steve

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post #20601 of 20704 Old 07-01-2020, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airman23 View Post
I just got my KEF R5 Speakers delivered and hooked up to my receiver. I'm at a quandary as to what speaker setting i should use. I was using a pair of Bookshelf speakers and a sub before. The Sub is a SVS PB-10 ISD. My Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver has settings for full range floor standing speakers like the KEF R5 and bookshelf speakers. If I use the "Large speaker setting I seem to loose the subwoofer.

I can set the speaker setting to "Small" in speakers setup in the receiver and set the crossover cutoff at 40Hz. My question is what speaker setting get my subwoofer back in the game without having to increase the gain on the subwoofer volume to un-natural levels.
Press Extra Bass button if you want to get the subwoofer back while F/L speakers set to Large.

1. Samsung UN55MU7000, Yamaha A2080, KEF R700, R200c, 2x Kube 10b
2. Panasonic 50" (plasma), Yamaha A2070, KEF R300s, Q100s, Kube 12b.
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post #20602 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 02:55 PM
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It's been a while since I've posted in this thread. I've been enjoying my 5.2.2 setup I put together last year from the recommendations I received here. Running a pair of Q750s, a Q650C, Q150s, Q50As, and dual Kube 12bs. I also recently added two more Q50As to get my setup to 5.2.4 using a Denon 4500H. As with all things I feel like I've been wondering if I could improve my experience and am curious on everyone's thoughts. Whether it may be more beneficial to get something like an Emotiva A-300 to drive the L/R or even an XPA-3 for the LCR to help open them up. Or would it be wiser to invest in stepping up to the R Series. Starting with upgrading the front stage. I assume the R7 are the equivalent of my current model or would the R5 still be a step up? In addition to stepping up to an R2C.

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post #20603 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 03:37 PM
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It's been a while since I've posted in this thread. I've been enjoying my 5.2.2 setup I put together last year from the recommendations I received here. Running a pair of Q750s, a Q650C, Q150s, Q50As, and dual Kube 12bs. I also recently added two more Q50As to get my setup to 5.2.4 using a Denon 4500H. As with all things I feel like I've been wondering if I could improve my experience and am curious on everyone's thoughts. Whether it may be more beneficial to get something like an Emotiva A-300 to drive the L/R or even an XPA-3 for the LCR to help open them up. Or would it be wiser to invest in stepping up to the R Series. Starting with upgrading the front stage. I assume the R7 are the equivalent of my current model or would the R5 still be a step up? In addition to stepping up to an R2C.

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What is it about your current setup that you aren't satisfied with? I basically have the same thing (minus the Q50As). If anything at all, I would consider the A-300 to drive the Q750s or the XPA-3 if you have it in the budget.

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post #20604 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
What is it about your current setup that you aren't satisfied with? I basically have the same thing (minus the Q50As). If anything at all, I would consider the A-300 to drive the Q750s or the XPA-3 if you have it in the budget.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my setup. The surround sound and Atmos experience are really good. I would say that I feel like I have to turn my AVR volume up really high to feel immersed but perhaps that is expected. Depending on content I usually use between -25db and -15db but sometimes take it a little higher but never past -10db. As part of that sometimes with certain content spoken audio can feel a bit low but cranking it up to the mentioned levels tend to get it good enough. So just trying to determine if I'm either not giving my fronts enough power since I'm driving 11 speakers or if that is a limitation of my current setup.

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post #20605 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my setup. The surround sound and Atmos experience are really good. I would say that I feel like I have to turn my AVR volume up really high to feel immersed but perhaps that is expected. Depending on content I usually use between -25db and -15db but sometimes take it a little higher but never past -10db. As part of that sometimes with certain content spoken audio can feel a bit low but cranking it up to the mentioned levels tend to get it good enough. So just trying to determine if I'm either not giving my fronts enough power since I'm driving 11 speakers or if that is a limitation of my current setup.

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Low volume in the center channel seems like a common thread with audyssey. If you haven't done so already try bumping up the center level a few dbs. You can also use the dialog adjustment feature available on your AVR. Dynamic volume could also be an option, though I personally don't like it because it sounds like their shouting the entire time.

An Emotiva A-500 or XPA 5 would open them up by improving dynamics and bringing out the detail (more noticeable in 2 channel music) in music without breaking the bank. I would start here since it's the least expensive option.

A4L has some very good prices on the previous R series, but may not be worth it if you don't listen to a lot of music. Going with ported subs would enhance your movie experience by providing 4X the output below 40hz. Beware that once you start upgrading there's no turning back and it could get expensive quickly if you're not careful
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post #20606 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 07:33 PM
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LS50 center

Looking for a center to "match" with a pair of all black LS50's. Would the Q250c be a good choice? Visually its a good match. I can also get a used Q200c but it is older and not so pretty. Sound wise is there any preference? Also thought about using another LS50 but I would have port issues and single all black LC50's are hard to find. My center is in a mostly enclosed AV shelf and I would hate to cripple the LS50. Any suggestions?
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post #20607 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by signmastr View Post
Looking for a center to "match" with a pair of all black LS50's. Would the Q250c be a good choice? Visually its a good match. I can also get a used Q200c but it is older and not so pretty. Sound wise is there any preference? Also thought about using another LS50 but I would have port issues and single all black LC50's are hard to find. My center is in an mostly enclosed AV shelf and I would hate to cripple the LS50. Any suggestions?
I would try not using a center at all. LS50's image extremely well and project a wide sound stage and center image. I've only turned on my center when I have the Air conditioner running in the last 2 weeks otherwise I listen in stereo mode.

If you absolutely must have a center, the older Q200c would be a better option over the Q250c. If you can accommodate the Q650c all the better.

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post #20608 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by signmastr View Post
Looking for a center to "match" with a pair of all black LS50's. Would the Q250c be a good choice? Visually its a good match. I can also get a used Q200c but it is older and not so pretty. Sound wise is there any preference? Also thought about using another LS50 but I would have port issues and single all black LC50's are hard to find. My center is in a mostly enclosed AV shelf and I would hate to cripple the LS50. Any suggestions?
I am pretty sure you can purchase an all black single from KEF directly. It's sitting currently out of stock, but it's 100% possible to get one from them if you're patient enough. Send them an e-mail to find out when they expect more in stock.
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post #20609 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 10:23 PM
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[QUOTE=pase22;59895348]
Quote:
Originally Posted by signmastr View Post

I would try not using a center at all. LS50's image extremely well and project a wide sound stage and center image. I've only turned on my center when I have the Air conditioner running in the last 2 weeks otherwise I listen in stereo mode.

If you absolutely must have a center, the older Q200c would be a better option over the Q250c. If you can accommodate the Q650c all the better.
Why the Q200 over the Q250c? I have the R2c after using the Q600c for 5 years. Huge improvement but to be expected with the difference in cost and build quality. I also use the LS50 for front L & R.
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post #20610 of 20704 Old 07-02-2020, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my setup. The surround sound and Atmos experience are really good. I would say that I feel like I have to turn my AVR volume up really high to feel immersed but perhaps that is expected. Depending on content I usually use between -25db and -15db but sometimes take it a little higher but never past -10db. As part of that sometimes with certain content spoken audio can feel a bit low but cranking it up to the mentioned levels tend to get it good enough. So just trying to determine if I'm either not giving my fronts enough power since I'm driving 11 speakers or if that is a limitation of my current setup.

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It is coming from my experience with the old Q series - Q900s were replaced by R700s. Of course, QX50 were a big step up, but still not a match to even the old R series. R700s brought me what Q series could not do - the sound at low volume. With Q speakers I had to crank the volume up to get the best out of them, whereas R speaker could sound lively even at low volume. I believe you have reached that level where you won't be satisfied with the sound quality no matter what you drive your speakers with. Take a dive and do yourself a huge favor by upgrading Q750 with R5 or R7 speakers. IMHO, if you are satisfied with Q750s, then R5s could do just fine. If money is not an issue, get R7s. Considering all, speakers make the biggest difference in how your system sounds.
Make sure the subs have more than 8" from the wall as it will clear your bass and low mids. Also, given how many speakers there is in the setup, get an external amp as the power supply in your Denon (710W) is too weak to pull them all together.
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