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3M views 26K replies 2K participants last post by  ScottSFA 
#1 ·
KEF owner here. I'm surprised there isn't an "official" thread for us yet.


My system:



Harman Kardon AVR-435

iQ7's up front

2QC on center duty

Q5's bringing up the rear

PSW 2150


Rounding out the gear is my Denon DVM-715 dvd changer(soon to be a Toshiba HD player), and RCA 56 inch HDTV, all connected with Monster Ultra Series speaker wire, interconnects, and banana plugs(sue me, the stuff was on clearance lol).


I'll try to have pics up within a week.


Thomas
 
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#18,421 ·
SB2000 seems like very overkill to me for a bedroom.

I have a small Sunfire XTEQ8 8" sub at my computer desk and it would be overkill for a bedroom IMO, and I like bassy electronic music.

Q750 is a lot of speaker for a bedroom - he might be fine without a sub or a very small sub, depending on what he listens to and at what volume.
I don't disagree with the above, but would note that having listened to new Q750s over the weekend in 2.0 only, the difference with a 10b sub was was substantial. I'm sure the SVS subs are superior based on everything I read and recommendations; I just appreciated the balance the 10b brought (which I plan to raise to 12b, or two 10bs).
 
#18,422 ·
I don't disagree with the above, but would note that having listened to new Q750s over the weekend in 2.0 only, the difference with a 10b sub was was substantial. I'm sure the SVS subs are superior based on everything I read and recommendations; I just appreciated the balance the 10b brought (which I plan to raise to 12b, or two 10bs).
Personally for a bedroom I would be looking at bookshelves and a sub, say Q350 or preferably LS50. That would be awesome.
 
#18,423 ·
It's a combination of the shipping and the exchange rate being terrible. I inquired about the F12SE and the price was $1279 USD (~$1750 CND) and I'd assume you get hit with charges at the door as well. The gloss black SB3000 is $1575 CND to the door and you get 45 days of trial and the upgrade program. I can't complain now though with the deal I got on the HSU sub!
You could always go with a Dual Rythmik L12's for that price!

the L12's have been compared to and measured against the SB2000's and easily came on top with tighter/faster bass response and equal output (Rythmik uses a more efficient driver and superior amp technology)

Also Rythmik pays the shipping/duties (no front door surprises) and the last time i checked it was roughly $120 USD for the bigger/heavier LV12F so i'm guessing the L12 would be even cheaper.

Before i purchased my Outlaw X12's i emailed literally every single company for shipping quotes and Rythmik/Outlaw shipping was significantly less expensive than any other US based ID companies. PSA's was reasonable but their subs where out of my price range at the time.
 
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#18,424 ·
2 channel. Only a sub if needed. 100% music. Room is maybe 12 by 15 with 10ft ceiling. This is my bed room and I’ll never be more than the given dimensions away from the speakers. I’m just taking baby steps into this after years dumping money into another hobby.

Current set up is Yamaha RN303 with Elac Debut 2.0 6.2’s. The RN303 won’t be enough. I was told that the Outlaw Audio RR2160 is nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The outlaw is really nice and hard to beat IMO. It also features excellent bass management for when/or if you add a subwoofer later down the road.
 
#18,425 ·
1) In terms of the R8a's the price looks to be mostly due to the matching finish of the R series. I use the cheaper Q50a's personally in my setup which retain the same angled cabinet shape if you're wall mounting these for surrounds. If you're not wall mounting, you can easily go with cheaper bookshelves like the Q350 on stands. Also as an option, you can try and track down the now discontinued R50's which have been replaced by the R8a earlier this year, whether it be through your dealer or the used market.


2/3) Although I personally haven't tested them in home, I've researched the 12b & R400b as potential options in the past 6 months for my living room setup for the nice finish and smaller footprint. Going by reviews and measurements though, these subs just don't stack up to the other internet direct companies subs like most here will tell you when it comes to performance and pricing.


4) The need/usefulness of seperates will definitely depend on your volume and listening habits. If you're going to get one of the higher end Marantz/Denon units, they may be perfectly sufficient for your needs. I have always used bookshelves and never ran full towers before though, so in that application maybe someone with better knowledge can chime in. If seperates are the way to go - then it would allow you to just stick with the AVR that has the necessary processing channels that you need (7,9,11,etc.), and not worry so much about going for the highest powered unit. I will mention in regard to Denon models, I know they are currently rolling out the 2019 models, so you may be able to save some of your budget with a 2018 model on closeout pricing or something... again that would be dealer specific.






Like pase22 says, there's a really good selection of subs, especially if you're located in the US and don't have to worry about crazy shipping costs and customs fees. Most people will recommend ported subs for your application, and multiple of them. It will mainly come down to your budget, and if other things matter like the size/finish/footprint of the cabinet then you might want a sealed option. For example, because I have a living room setup, and want to move my sub placement to the front soundstage - I have been specifically looking for a smaller footprint sub with a nice finish to match my KEF R300/600c combo. I was pretty set on the SVS SB3000 (since I am in Canada all the other sub companies I contacted for final to the door pricing were crazy)... but with luck I came across someone with a used ad selling his 2 HSU ULS-15 mk2's, and I will be picking one of those up today! It allows me to move up to a 15" driver with a decent looking box that's a smaller footprint than my current ported model.
Thank you for this - all great information.
 
#18,426 ·
1) In terms of the R8a's the price looks to be mostly due to the matching finish of the R series. I use the cheaper Q50a's personally in my setup which retain the same angled cabinet shape if you're wall mounting these for surrounds. If you're not wall mounting, you can easily go with cheaper bookshelves like the Q350 on stands. Also as an option, you can try and track down the now discontinued R50's which have been replaced by the R8a earlier this year, whether it be through your dealer or the used market.


2/3) Although I personally haven't tested them in home, I've researched the 12b & R400b as potential options in the past 6 months for my living room setup for the nice finish and smaller footprint. Going by reviews and measurements though, these subs just don't stack up to the other internet direct companies subs like most here will tell you when it comes to performance and pricing.


4) The need/usefulness of seperates will definitely depend on your volume and listening habits. If you're going to get one of the higher end Marantz/Denon units, they may be perfectly sufficient for your needs. I have always used bookshelves and never ran full towers before though, so in that application maybe someone with better knowledge can chime in. If seperates are the way to go - then it would allow you to just stick with the AVR that has the necessary processing channels that you need (7,9,11,etc.), and not worry so much about going for the highest powered unit. I will mention in regard to Denon models, I know they are currently rolling out the 2019 models, so you may be able to save some of your budget with a 2018 model on closeout pricing or something... again that would be dealer specific.






Like pase22 says, there's a really good selection of subs, especially if you're located in the US and don't have to worry about crazy shipping costs and customs fees. Most people will recommend ported subs for your application, and multiple of them. It will mainly come down to your budget, and if other things matter like the size/finish/footprint of the cabinet then you might want a sealed option. For example, because I have a living room setup, and want to move my sub placement to the front soundstage - I have been specifically looking for a smaller footprint sub with a nice finish to match my KEF R300/600c combo. I was pretty set on the SVS SB3000 (since I am in Canada all the other sub companies I contacted for final to the door pricing were crazy)... but with luck I came across someone with a used ad selling his 2 HSU ULS-15 mk2's, and I will be picking one of those up today! It allows me to move up to a 15" driver with a decent looking box that's a smaller footprint than my current ported model.
Thanks for this - all great information!
 
#18,427 ·
2 channel. Only a sub if needed. 100% music. Room is maybe 12 by 15 with 10ft ceiling. This is my bed room and I’ll never be more than the given dimensions away from the speakers. I’m just taking baby steps into this after years dumping money into another hobby.

Current set up is Yamaha RN303 with Elac Debut 2.0 6.2’s. The RN303 won’t be enough. I was told that the Outlaw Audio RR2160 is nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would recommend getting a sub before changing your AVR. Most AVR, even 20 years old, provide excellent sound.
 
#18,428 ·
Well I finally got the 650c and 10b hooked up to my front 750s, and ran Audyssey XT32. Wow, what a difference Audyssey made to the sub. Last night with just the sub and 750s (pre-calibration) I was so underwhelmed. Now I can feel the bass in the arm rest of the sofa, so much so that I've dialed it back. It all suddenly came to life with the center and the sub. I still think I'll change to the 12b for the extra headroom, but very pleased with the balance and elegance of the sub. Its there, but not in an obnoxious way.

Only thing to note is the level was between -10 to -15 db for the experience. Feels like I'm having to crank the receiver up a lot for the level of volume I was looking for.

Now I sit back and think to myself what if I had the R7s. It never ends!
I noticed that I have to crank the volume much more than my x1400h. I cast everything through Chromecast though.

when listening to Spotify using the x4500h app i get a ton more volume so i'm guessing this is an Input level issue.

I added +8 on the chromecast input level and it helped but still no where near the same as levels as spotify app(direct).
 
#18,429 ·
I noticed that I have to crank the volume much more than my x1400h. I cast everything through Chromecast though.

when listening to Spotify using the x4500h app i get a ton more volume so i'm guessing this is an Input level issue.

I added +8 on the chromecast input level and it helped but still no where near the same as levels as spotify app(direct).
Exactly that. I have an older X2200 in living room with smaller speakers; we rarely go beyond -42db, often in the -44 to -48 range. Beyond that it gets loud.

I plan on running XT32 on B&W set later today, and will run a subjective test on perceived loudness. Good call on the potential source driving that (this is through Xbox One X).
 
#18,430 ·
Exactly that. I have an older X2200 in living room with smaller speakers; we rarely go beyond -42db, often in the -44 to -48 range. Beyond that it gets loud.

I plan on running XT32 on B&W set later today, and will run a subjective test on perceived loudness. Good call on the potential source driving that (this is through Xbox One X).

did you use dynamic volume with your x2200? turning it on makes a massive difference in volume.

but yeah generally i listen to -15 to -20 for music and around -10 for movies now i'm pushing the volumes near reference :eek: when watching movies!
 
#18,431 ·
I noticed that I have to crank the volume much more than my x1400h. I cast everything through Chromecast though.

when listening to Spotify using the x4500h app i get a ton more volume so i'm guessing this is an Input level issue.

I added +8 on the chromecast input level and it helped but still no where near the same as levels as spotify app(direct).
They are power hungry speakers so I think it's just the way it is with Kef. They seem to open up and sing at certain volume ranges or "sweet spot" if you will. This is more apparent with 2.1 than multi-channel which was my main reasoning for adding a 2 channel amp.
 
#18,432 · (Edited)
They are power hungry speakers so I think it's just the way it is with Kef. They seem to open up and sing at certain volume ranges or "sweet spot" if you will. This is more apparent with 2.1 than multi-channel which was my main reasoning for adding a 2 channel amp.
I know/agree with you pase but we were just pointing out that our older/lesser/lower wattage amps had way more volume at every given MV compared to our newer more powerfull x4500h. I also checked my speaker trim levels and they are roughly the same level they were on my x1400h as well.

IMO i think it's an HDMI input volume issue with chromecast on my part. I tested my Blu-ray player yesterday and i did get more volume at the same MV than my chromecast but not as much as direct streaming via spotify. (about 4-5dB more i would guess)

I'm also only running 5 channels which the x4500h pushes 100w 5 channels driven, this is roughly what my x1400h was pushing in stereo lol.

I don't think it's a power issue but either way i will be adding external amplifiers soon.
 
#18,433 ·
I know/agree with you pase but we were just pointing out that our older/lesser/lower wattage amps had way more volume at every given MV compared to our newer more powerfull x4500h. I also checked my speaker trim levels and they are roughly the same level they were on my x1400h as well.

IMO i think it's an HDMI input volume issue with chromecast on my part. I tested my Blu-ray player yesterday and i did get more volume at the same MV than my chromecast but not as much as direct streaming via spotify. (about 4-5dB more i would guess)

I'm also only running 5 channels which the x4500h pushes 100w 5 channels driven, this is roughly what my x1400h was pushing in stereo lol.

I don't think it's a power issue but either way i will be adding external amplifiers soon.
Earlier you noted adjusting the HDMI input depending on source to increase input volume. Was this done at the individual speaker level (e.g Center +3, Sub +3, FR +3 etc) or is there a master setting for the input overall (e.g. HDMI 1 CBL/SAT +3). I could only find the former last night, and tweaking that seems easy enough but am mindful I am altering the XT32 balance. That doesn't concern me as with my X2200 downstairs I boosted center for stronger voice.
 
#18,434 ·
I know/agree with you pase but we were just pointing out that our older/lesser/lower wattage amps had way more volume at every given MV compared to our newer more powerfull x4500h. I also checked my speaker trim levels and they are roughly the same level they were on my x1400h as well.

IMO i think it's an HDMI input volume issue with chromecast on my part. I tested my Blu-ray player yesterday and i did get more volume at the same MV than my chromecast but not as much as direct streaming via spotify. (about 4-5dB more i would guess)

I'm also only running 5 channels which the x4500h pushes 100w 5 channels driven, this is roughly what my x1400h was pushing in stereo lol.

I don't think it's a power issue but either way i will be adding external amplifiers soon.
Earlier you noted adjusting the HDMI input depending on source to increase input volume. Was this done at the individual speaker level (e.g Center +3, Sub +3, FR +3 etc) or is there a master setting for the input overall (e.g. HDMI 1 CBL/SAT +3). I could only find the former last night, and tweaking that seems easy enough but am mindful I am altering the XT32 balance. That doesn't concern me as with my X2200 downstairs I boosted center for stronger voice.
Setup / inputs / source level

Was dynamic volume turned on your x2200w ?
 
#18,435 ·
How to Buy 3 for L/C/R?

I want to get 3 identical R3's or maybe R5's for L/C/R in my new home theater. However, I can't find anywhere where I can buy an odd number (1 or 3) of either. KEF Direct, Audiogon, eBay, A4L all have these in pairs. The only dealer in my area has gone out of business. Is there anywhere I can buy an odd number of these?

Thanks,
HDD
 
#18,436 ·
I want to get 3 identical R3's or maybe R5's for L/C/R in my new home theater. However, I can't find anywhere where I can buy an odd number (1 or 3) of either. KEF Direct, Audiogon, eBay, A4L all have these in pairs. The only dealer in my area has gone out of business. Is there anywhere I can buy an odd number of these?

Thanks,
HDD
I would think the R5s are packaged individually so they shouldn't be hard to get an odd number, your local dealer won't let you do this? The R2c is the identical configuration as the R5 and they can be bought by the single obviously, they're sealed though so they won't have the bass response of the R5 but you'll be using subs anyway and sealed speakers generally blend better with subs.
 
#18,437 ·
Well I finally got the 650c and 10b hooked up to my front 750s, and ran Audyssey XT32. Wow, what a difference Audyssey made to the sub. Last night with just the sub and 750s (pre-calibration) I was so underwhelmed. Now I can feel the bass in the arm rest of the sofa, so much so that I've dialed it back. It all suddenly came to life with the center and the sub. I still think I'll change to the 12b for the extra headroom, but very pleased with the balance and elegance of the sub. Its there, but not in an obnoxious way.

Only thing to note is the level was between -10 to -15 db for the experience. Feels like I'm having to crank the receiver up a lot for the level of volume I was looking for.

Now I sit back and think to myself what if I had the R7s. It never ends!
I have a pair of 10b subs and a single 12b. I'd strongly suggest getting another 10b, rather than replacing it with 12b. 10b feels slightly faster, produces a bit tighter bass than 12b. It could be just me. After all the break-in my R700s and the 10b subs do really satisfy all my desires in the sound quality across all frequencies.
 
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#18,438 ·
I have a pair of 10b subs and a single 12b. I'd strongly suggest getting another 10b, rather than replacing it with 12b. 10b feels slightly faster, produces a bit tighter bass than 12b. It could be just me. After all the break-in my R700s and the 10b subs do really satisfy all my desires in the sound quality across all frequencies.
My feelings about the Kube 10b, exactly!

Just one for me, as it's my office and I don't occupy the null zone.
 
#18,440 ·
My feelings about the Kube 10b, exactly!

Just one for me, as it's my office and I don't occupy the null zone.
Thank you both. After the XT32 calibration the sub came to life also. Its not lacking, and the thought of two 10s crossed my mind. What is very interesting to me is the tighter bass noted above - that is important to me. I also think positioning in the room could make a noticeable improvement, although not really sure how to go about that (have been watching videos). Right now its Front left, on the inside of the front left tower.
 
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