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post #26071 of 27280 Old 02-28-2018, 11:54 PM
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Guys,

Need your advice, I got a 5.1 setup which has B&W S684 s2(fronts) HTM 62 s2(center) S686 s2 surrounds. I want to add Dolby atmos to my current setup but having a issue doing a ceiling installation.

I was looking at some dolby atmos enabled speakers but they won't fit on top of my S684 s2 which are very tiny mini towers. Should i install the M1 on the top of the side walls of the listening area?
point them to the listener? Should be good enough?



Thanks.
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post #26072 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SUperEd007 View Post
Ok so I know this has been talked about millions of times .. I just got off the phone with a Audio specialist and I told him I had B&W 683 towers with htm61 center and spb pb2000 sub.. When i told him that I should set speakers at small and crossover to 80 he was like why.. Thats a myth .. you have towers set to large and set bass to lfe and mains .. I have always heard that its recommended to run all speakers at small regardless if you have towers and set cross over to 80?
This guy now has me confused lol
whats the best way to set this ..Small or Large and Bass out of sub only or Main and Sub lol...
You have a great sub. Set all your speakers to small and crossover at 80hz. Here is why.

In a movie sound track, the subwoofer has its own channel. Thats the .1 in 5.1 for example. Sounds in that channel always go to the subwoofer no matter what you use for small/large. The small/large setting is to decide what to do with the other bass sounds for the other speakers.

When you set your speakers to large, you're running them full range. You're telling your receiver that your front speakers are just as capable as your subwoofer so don't use your subwoofer to assist the front speakers. That means sounds that are sent to the left/right channels that go as low as say 20 hz are played by your left/right speakers and not your subwoofer. Now, your left/right fronts do not play well below 50hz. And if they did, its no where near as good as your subwoofer does in those ranges. Ask yourself, which of your speakers is going to do a better job playing 20hz-80hz. Your left/right towers or your subwoofer? It should be obvious. In addition, setting your speakers to large will put a lot more strain on your receiver because amplifying the lower frequencies is much harder on the amp. Setting it to small just lets the subwoofer amp handle it instead.

Most likely setting the speakers to large will not really sound much different than setting it to small most the time. But when you get bass in 2 channel music in movies or such you really want this sent to your subwoofer.

I have 802d3 fronts and htm1d3 center and my speakers are set to (equivalent of small) for movies. I cross over at 40hz for music and 80hz for movies.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26073 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by blackspider View Post
Guys,

Need your advice, I got a 5.1 setup which has B&W S684 s2(fronts) HTM 62 s2(center) S686 s2 surrounds. I want to add Dolby atmos to my current setup but having a issue doing a ceiling installation.

I was looking at some dolby atmos enabled speakers but they won't fit on top of my S684 s2 which are very tiny mini towers. Should i install the M1 on the top of the side walls of the listening area?
point them to the listener? Should be good enough?



Thanks.
I actually had M1's at one time mounted on the ceiling. I took off the base that they come on and made a metal bracket for them and flush mounted them so that the ones in front were pointing back towards me and the ones in back were pointing front-wards. The ambiance from these was good. Unfortunately, the M1's just weren't enough power to balance the rest of my system so they had to go. Might do ok for you though. If you do what I suggest, it's easy to replace with something else later.

I ended up going with shelf mounted B&W 706s2's for all 4 of my atmos speakers. They're sideways on shelfs like you suggest on the side walls in the listening area with the shelves pushing them as high to the ceiling as possible. This worked awesome. I didnt lose any of the positional ambiance from moving them to the walls up high and gained a ton of quality over the M1's.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26074 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I have 802d3 fronts and htm1d3 center and my speakers are set to (equivalent of small) for movies. I cross over at 40hz for music and 80hz for movies.
Why do you use a different crossover frequency for movies and for music? According to stereophile measurements, the 802d3 drop by 3–4 dB at 40Hz, so wouldn't it be better to cross them over at 80Hz for music, as well (actually, the woofer response seems flat-ish, ±1dB, down to 70Hz)?
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post #26075 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Are the lines timber matched? Can you do a htm1 or 2 d3 with the less expensive towers?
The entire 800 like is perfectly timbre matched. It's incredible how well it is so. I put 805d3's up front next to 802d3's and when you A/B them the timbre is almost the same.

An HTM1D3 is the single best upgrade you can do for your theater in my opinion. My friend had 7.2.4 goldenear and upgraded the center to a B&W HTM1D3 after hearing mine and his whole setup sounded fantastic like that. He then swapped out his goldenear floor speakers for 4 702s2's and that sounded even better. (The 702s2's really destroyed the triton 1's).
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26076 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
Why do you use a different crossover frequency for movies and for music? According to stereophile measurements, the 802d3 drop by 3–4 dB at 40Hz, so wouldn't it be better to cross them over at 80Hz for music, as well (actually, the woofer response seems flat-ish, ±1dB, down to 70Hz)?
I just checked and I guess I have the music xover set to 60hz for the 802d3 right now. I must have changed it a couple months back lol.

My 802d3's sound really awesome full range for music, but they just lack that little bit of bottom octave. If I cross them over at 40hz (without a subwoofer enabled) I can almost not tell the difference between that and full range.

I have 4x15" infinite baffle subs that go flat to below 10hz. They're really awesome for bringing in that bottom octave 20-60hz. But for faster bass like kick drum, I think the B&W sounds better in the 60-80hz range. (It's close, I've spent a lot of time varying the xover between 40 and 100). Some of it also has to do with my room and speaker placement.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26077 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I just checked and I guess I have the music xover set to 60hz for the 802d3 right now. I must have changed it a couple months back lol.

My 802d3's sound really awesome full range for music, but they just lack that little bit of bottom octave. If I cross them over at 40hz (without a subwoofer enabled) I can almost not tell the difference between that and full range.

I have 4x15" infinite baffle subs that go flat to below 10hz. They're really awesome for bringing in that bottom octave 20-60hz. But for faster bass like kick drum, I think the B&W sounds better in the 60-80hz range. (It's close, I've spent a lot of time varying the xover between 40 and 100). Some of it also has to do with my room and speaker placement.
You are right, of course. Going by the "anechoic chamber" measurements is not very useful for real room calibration. I guess, the best way is to set up REW with a mic and see which crossover gives you the flattest response between, say, 30 and 120Hz.
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post #26078 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The entire 800 like is perfectly timbre matched. It's incredible how well it is so. I put 805d3's up front next to 802d3's and when you A/B them the timbre is almost the same.

An HTM1D3 is the single best upgrade you can do for your theater in my opinion. My friend had 7.2.4 goldenear and upgraded the center to a B&W HTM1D3 after hearing mine and his whole setup sounded fantastic like that. He then swapped out his goldenear floor speakers for 4 702s2's and that sounded even better. (The 702s2's really destroyed the triton 1's).


what are your thoughts on the htm1 versus the htm2?

just don’t know if i can fit the htm1 in height wise.

is it just output that is the difference bwetween the two?

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post #26079 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
what are your thoughts on the htm1 versus the htm2?

just don’t know if i can fit the htm1 in height wise.

is it just output that is the difference bwetween the two?
The htm1 has 2 8’s and a 6” continuum. It’s basically and 802d3 in a different box. The htm2d3 is 2 7” and 1 5” continuum which is basically and 803d3 in a center box. The htm1 will be a bit more chest thumping and perhaps more authoritative with deep voices like Optimus prime. Both will be good but I think the htm1 is the way to go if you can swing it.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26080 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The htm1 has 2 8’s and a 6” continuum. It’s basically and 802d3 in a different box. The htm2d3 is 2 7” and 1 5” continuum which is basically and 803d3 in a center box. The htm1 will be a bit more chest thumping and perhaps more authoritative with deep voices like Optimus prime. Both will be good but I think the htm1 is the way to go if you can swing it.

thanks.

on another note, does anyone have a dealer they would recommend?

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post #26081 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman777 View Post
I believe B&W is going have a hard time selling their 800 series now when you can get about 95% of the way there with the 702s2, for a lot less money!

Thank You B&W!
While I agree that the new 702S2 is amazing, after all I bought them, I disagree with the 95% analogy. I sold my 803D3's and they were definitely not only 5% better. But that is just my opinion.
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post #26082 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Are the lines timber matched? Can you do a htm1 or 2 d3 with the less expensive towers?
I have a HTM2D3 and 702S2's. They sound great together. I don't hear any issues when there is panning in movies. Are they truly timbre matched the answer is no but they sound good to me.
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post #26083 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman777 View Post
I believe B&W is going have a hard time selling their 800 series now when you can get about 95% of the way there with the 702s2, for a lot less money!

Thank You B&W!
Hmm... Yesterday, I was able to audition 702S2 and 804D3, side by side for an extended period at BB Magnolia. To me, they just sound totally different, aside from even the question of how "close" the 702S2 is to the 800 series. The 804D3 had significantly more "airy" highs, clearer mid range/vocals, and more defined mid bass. The 702S2 sounded great in its own right, but had a more "mellow" sound to them. It might even be that the 702S2 would be easier to listen to for long periods for music. But for older people like me with some high frequency hearing loss, as well as for dialog intelligibility in movies, it seems the 804D3 is far superior. But you pay dearly for the upgrade!

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Recommendations for Two-channel Integrated amplifier

Any recommendations for a two channel integrated amplifier for my B&W 702s2, mainly for music?

Budget is $2K (give or take $500)


Context to help:
Room: Great room, connected to Formal dining, kitchen and sunroom; approximately 9000 cubic feet
Equipment: 5.2 configuration, B&W 702s2, HTM 71s2, DS6 surrounds, SVS PB-1000 (x2), Yamaha RX -3070, Oppo 203, Samsung 65"
Music vs Movies ratio: 80 : 20
Music preferences: Blues, Jazz, Classical, Gospel; mainly via Tidal streaming via Bluesound Node 2
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post #26085 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiandHT View Post
Any recommendations for a two channel integrated amplifier for my B&W 702s2, mainly for music?

Budget is $2K (give or take $500)


Context to help:
Room: Great room, connected to Formal dining, kitchen and sunroom; approximately 9000 cubic feet
Equipment: 5.2 configuration, B&W 702s2, HTM 71s2, DS6 surrounds, SVS PB-1000 (x2), Yamaha RX -3070, Oppo 203, Samsung 65"
Music vs Movies ratio: 80 : 20
Music preferences: Blues, Jazz, Classical, Gospel; mainly via Tidal streaming via Bluesound Node 2
Seems like the Emotiva XPA Gen3 series fits the bill.

Speakers B&W 805D3, CM6 S2, HTM71 S2; KEF Q100; Klipsch RP-280F Subs SVS SB16, SB2000; Emotiva S8 Amps Rotel RB1582mkII; Emotiva XPA-5 Gen3 Processing Marantz AV7703; Denon X2400H; Sony X1000ES; Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Rotel RC-1590 TVs LG 55B7; Vizio P65 Headphones Audeze LCD-3, Senn HD800, Violectric V200, V800
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post #26086 of 27280 Old 03-01-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
I think so but my experience is anecdotal. While reviewing the 702s2, I had a pair flanking an 802D3 which, sometimes, served as a center for them.
Curious to find out, what do you think of the 702s?
Comparing it to the Revels and other likes of similar price range, are the 702s worth it?

Thanks.
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post #26087 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I actually had M1's at one time mounted on the ceiling. I took off the base that they come on and made a metal bracket for them and flush mounted them so that the ones in front were pointing back towards me and the ones in back were pointing front-wards. The ambiance from these was good. Unfortunately, the M1's just weren't enough power to balance the rest of my system so they had to go. Might do ok for you though. If you do what I suggest, it's easy to replace with something else later.

I ended up going with shelf mounted B&W 706s2's for all 4 of my atmos speakers. They're sideways on shelfs like you suggest on the side walls in the listening area with the shelves pushing them as high to the ceiling as possible. This worked awesome. I didnt lose any of the positional ambiance from moving them to the walls up high and gained a ton of quality over the M1's.
Thanks for the info, Well i got basic b&w 600 series. So i guess M1 will be more then adequate for me :-) Any thoughts on dolby up firing speakers?

Thanks.
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post #26088 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kenkkl View Post
Curious to find out, what do you think of the 702s?
Comparing it to the Revels and other likes of similar price range, are the 702s worth it?
I cannot comment until the review is in print.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #26089 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiandHT View Post
Any recommendations for a two channel integrated amplifier for my B&W 702s2, mainly for music?

Budget is $2K (give or take $500)


Context to help:
Room: Great room, connected to Formal dining, kitchen and sunroom; approximately 9000 cubic feet
Equipment: 5.2 configuration, B&W 702s2, HTM 71s2, DS6 surrounds, SVS PB-1000 (x2), Yamaha RX -3070, Oppo 203, Samsung 65"
Music vs Movies ratio: 80 : 20
Music preferences: Blues, Jazz, Classical, Gospel; mainly via Tidal streaming via Bluesound Node 2
Take a look at the Cambridge Azur 851W. Its on sale right now https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779851....html?tp=48757
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post #26090 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
I cannot comment until the review is in print.
Will the review be in your "Music in the Round" column?

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post #26091 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The htm1 has 2 8’s and a 6” continuum. It’s basically and 802d3 in a different box. The htm2d3 is 2 7” and 1 5” continuum which is basically and 803d3 in a center box. The htm1 will be a bit more chest thumping and perhaps more authoritative with deep voices like Optimus prime. Both will be good but I think the htm1 is the way to go if you can swing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
thanks.

on another note, does anyone have a dealer they would recommend?
While the HTM1D3 has the same size bass cone and aerofoil cone as the 802D3, the smaller center, HTM2D3 has the same size bass and mid as the 804D3.

6.5” bass and 5” aerofoil mid in both 804D3 and HTM2D3. The cabinets are shaped similar also, curved back, flat front where as the HTM1D3 cabinet has a curved front and flat back like the 802D3.

The 800 and 803 are the odd men it without a perfect matched center.

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Last edited by RaceCarDriver; 03-02-2018 at 11:26 AM.
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post #26092 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jwhitworth View Post
Will the review be in your "Music in the Round" column?
Nope. Full review.

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"Music in the Round"
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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #26093 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 06:09 PM
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HiFiandHT check out the Yamaha AS-1100 integrated amp. It's a great sounding amp and can compete with units that are much more expensive. It can drive the 702s2 with ease and will sound awesome on those speakers.
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post #26094 of 27280 Old 03-02-2018, 08:34 PM
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Proud CM7 here.

I love my CM7s. I don't believe I've fully maxed out their 150w potential yet.
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post #26095 of 27280 Old 03-03-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiandHT View Post
Any recommendations for a two channel integrated amplifier for my B&W 702s2, mainly for music?

Budget is $2K (give or take $500)

Do you need an integrated amp, or just a power amp? Sounds like your Yamaha is doing the processing/preamp duties, and you are looking for a separate to power the front two channels. Or am I misunderstanding?
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post #26096 of 27280 Old 03-03-2018, 12:48 PM
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Are many of you guys using 685’s as permanent mains in a HT setup? I’m flip flopping back and forth between getting cheaper towers (like Chane or HTD) or more expensive bookshelves (like the 685). I’ve currently got Elac B6’s, and I’ve never thought they weren’t loud enough. I know the best answer is just to buy 683’s, but that isn’t in the cards in the near future.
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post #26097 of 27280 Old 03-04-2018, 01:01 PM
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Are many of you guys using 685’s as permanent mains in a HT setup? I’m flip flopping back and forth between getting cheaper towers (like Chane or HTD) or more expensive bookshelves (like the 685). I’ve currently got Elac B6’s, and I’ve never thought they weren’t loud enough. I know the best answer is just to buy 683’s, but that isn’t in the cards in the near future.
Why not the 684 s2? they are mini towers & pretty much like book shelf with a stand. They do get seriously loud too..
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post #26098 of 27280 Old 03-04-2018, 02:46 PM
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Any of you know of a timber matched surround sound speaker (bookshelf or in wall) to match up with a front stage consisting of B&W DM604 S3 towers?

How about some timber matched atmos ceiling speakers?

Thanks in advance
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post #26099 of 27280 Old 03-04-2018, 04:04 PM
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Any of you know of a timber matched surround sound speaker (bookshelf or in wall) to match up with a front stage consisting of B&W DM604 S3 towers?

How about some timber matched atmos ceiling speakers?

Thanks in advance
Honestly, any of the similarly priced B&W will do the job here. You could get away with anything in the current 600 line up.

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post #26100 of 27280 Old 03-04-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FaintReality View Post
Any of you know of a timber matched surround sound speaker (bookshelf or in wall) to match up with a front stage consisting of B&W DM604 S3 towers?

How about some timber matched atmos ceiling speakers?

Thanks in advance
Honestly, any of the similarly priced B&W will do the job here. You could get away with anything in the current 600 line up.
Hoping to find another brand as the 600 series is hard to find and usually over priced and beat up used. Plus, they don't have anything to use for an atmos in ceiling speaker that I am aware of.
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