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#1 ·
I noticed that I hadn't seen B&W OWNER'S thread , but that there are a lot of owners on this forum and I think that the consistant bashing from about 4 posters makes people hesitant to get involved in any of the many threads that keep getting nasty. So, to that end, I think that if there was a thread where the Lovefest could be conducted without bothering NON-owners and the bashers weren't welcome, maybe some good info could come out of it.


My challenge would be to ask people here to keep it civil and that if you don't like B&W there is no point in you being here. If you want to talk about other comporables, start another thread.


For the record, I am a B&W dealer , and most know this, and as such , if I can find out any important info on the brand or certain models, I will be happy to. Don't , however, post or pm me regarding sales, I don't use threads as advertising for my business, and I won't sell you anything .


So what do you own and how is it set-up?
 
#18,601 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18570#post_24803825


Rosenut is a term that seems to be used exclusively in the loudspeaker world. Would be interesting to know the genesis of the term. Why don't we have a glass finish for veneered finishes? Great question, and I don't have an answer. Personally, I would prefer hand rubbed, or satin finishes over high gloss.


Amplifiers are certainly less overtly colored than they were twenty years ago. That said, I still find that they differ (sometimes wildly) in the relative level of their noise floors, and their ability to handle complex changes in impedance/phase. One thing is for certain, and that it is much easier for consumers to find competent designs of more consistent quality than in the past.

I agree, I never encountered the term until we listened to the 802D's a couple of months ago. It probably arose as I said before, rose because of the stain color, nut for walnut. Weird. Funny thing is that we were actually in the market for a replacement prepro when we went to the shop. We ended up buying the 800D2's and kept the old prepro. A drop of solder fixed it, so we'll keep it.


I'd put the threshold for consistently good amps at least 20 years ago. That's how old our Adcom is and it's clean. Have you ever done any DBT? You might find your subjective impressions about noise floors,etc, are unsubstantiated. Of course, that might mean you'd sell more Rotel and less Classe.


All of the clear finishes, be they varnish, conversion varnish or lacquer, are naturally gloss. Dullers, which are usually fine silica particles, are added to cut the gloss to varying degrees, ie, satin, semi-gloss, etc. You can physically cut gloss by wet or dry sanding, but that isn't done commercially.
 
#18,602 ·
A drop of solder is a great (and inexpensive) solution to a problem. I've never been particularly adept at soldering- not enough experience.


I've never found DBTs necessary in order to discern the differences between things. I know where my biases are, and they are decidedly bunched around not paying money for silly things that I can't perceive (or believe are outright BS), or are likely to embarrass me in a public demonstration. As an example of the later, I recently decided to put to the test a marketing theory for a particular product. I put together two different electronics packages (source, pre, amp) with a pair of speakers. My hope was that there would be a difference that I could use to my advantage in a public demonstration. Gain matched everything down to the limits of what I had to work with, which was about .5db.


When I did the listening test, I could perceive no difference between the two systems. Realize that it would have made my professional life much easier if there had been a difference (in my favor of course.) However, there was none. Did it take a DBT to figure that out? No. Just an open mind and a competently set up demonstration. As for the marketing claim? Never saw the light of day, buried where it belonged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24804003


I agree, I never encountered the term until we listened to the 802D's a couple of months ago. It probably arose as I said before, rose because of the stain color, nut for walnut. Weird. Funny thing is that we were actually in the market for a replacement prepro when we went to the shop. We ended up buying the 800D2's and kept the old prepro. A drop of solder fixed it, so we'll keep it.


I'd put the threshold for consistently good amps at least 20 years ago. That's how old our Adcom is and it's clean. Have you ever done any DBT? You might find your subjective impressions about noise floors,etc, are unsubstantiated. Of course, that might mean you'd sell more Rotel and less Classe.


All of the clear finishes, be they varnish, conversion varnish or lacquer, are naturally gloss. Dullers, which are usually fine silica particles, are added to cut the gloss to varying degrees, ie, satin, semi-gloss, etc. You can physically cut gloss by wet or dry sanding, but that isn't done commercially.
 
#18,603 ·
I live in Brazil and I am building my listening/ HT space. My 802D2 is somewhere in the middle of the atlantic in a cargo ship on the way to my shaking and eager hands. I have a pair of SCM 1 ( Nautilus) that I will use as a surround. Center will be an HTM2 D2 ( space and wife permiting) or a HTM4D2. Amplification is a 10 year old "still in the box" NT 512 (a rebranded Bryston 9B or 9 B-ST, not sure). Processor and pre-amp is an Integra 80.3. Source will be Oppo 105 and a Rega RP3. All, except for the center speaker, are already purchased.


i will be traveling to the US for Xmas and want to go to my dealer do audition pre-amps for my stereo listening. Since I can not audition at home, I have to ask the dealer to have available the set ups I want to audition.


The best way that I can describe what I want is a detailed sound that I know the 802's can deliver with a "liquid" character. So I thought tubes. I listen to Classical ( from symphonic to solo cello suits, jazz and rock ( from jimi hendrix, led zeppelin and acdc to dire straits and peter gabriel). Good audiophile recording are not always available, so... vynil (prefered) and cds will be the main thing.


Now for the questions that I hope the good experienced folk of this thread can help me with.


Where will my money be best invested:


(I) stereo tube amp to drive the 802s as I listen to stereo ( with the amp mismatch downside of using the lexicon for center and surround and the tube amp for left and right when watching shows and opera)?


(II) tube pre-amp with a pass through to the processor?


I tend to think that (II) is more reasonable. What you guys think?


In those lines, I am considering 2 alternatives:


(A) Mcintosh C2500;


Pros


Price ( as compared with audio research)

Looks

Built in phono stage fo MM and MC

Rre-sale value in the long run


Cons


Not sure



(B) Audio Research LS27 or REF 5


Pros


Arguably the best tube pre-amp out there


Cons


Price tag (for something without the phono stage built in), which I will have to buy later on ( and use Integra's in the meanwhile.



So, I want to hear the Audio Research, but it seems indefecible price wise ( except if it give the leap in performance that I want - i.e the " liquid feel without compromising detail).


Finally, there might be something (or some other strategy) out there that I realy should try and that I do not know of and should audition on my US trip ( ideas anyone?)


In short: invest in tube amp or tube pre-amp? Audio research vs Mcintosh vs something else?


Sorry for the long post.
 
#18,604 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18500_100#post_24803855 Patrick- is the Rotel RSX 1562 sufficient to drive a set of 800D's? Never heard/seen them paired together....
Get yourself a Classe CA-2300 or better yet a pair of mono CA-M600 Love the combination :)
 
#18,606 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24804155


A drop of solder is a great (and inexpensive) solution to a problem. I've never been particularly adept at soldering- not enough experience.


I've never found DBTs necessary in order to discern the differences between things. I know where my biases are, and they are decidedly bunched around not paying money for silly things that I can't perceive (or believe are outright BS), or are likely to embarrass me in a public demonstration. As an example of the later, I recently decided to put to the test a marketing theory for a particular product. I put together two different electronics packages (source, pre, amp) with a pair of speakers. My hope was that there would be a difference that I could use to my advantage in a public demonstration. Gain matched everything down to the limits of what I had to work with, which was about .5db.


When I did the listening test, I could perceive no difference between the two systems. Realize that it would have made my professional life much easier if there had been a difference (in my favor of course.) However, there was none. Did it take a DBT to figure that out? No. Just an open mind and a competently set up demonstration. As for the marketing claim? Never saw the light of day, buried where it belonged.

Couple of points, Patrick. First, you say that when level matched, the electronics you chose sounded pretty much the same. I agree, that is as it should be given quality electronics. Two, your listening "tests" weren't. There may have been a difference in SQ between the systems, and your biases led you to believe there were none. That's fine and you can stop there if you're satisfied, but you proved nothing. Only DBT can actually prove if audible differences are or are not present. Personally, I have found no audible differences between an Adcom and a Bryston. That reinforces my bias, and I'm cool with that. That allows me to put the Bryston on a pedestal in my HT and the Adcom in cabinet. You might try a DBT between a Classe and a Rotel. I'd love to be part of that.
 
#18,607 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18570#post_24803089


Yep, "Rosenut" is a much more appealing name than "Red Stained Walnut". I'm an amateur woodworker and have not seen it called that in my magazines like "Fine Woodworking", etc. It's not commonly used by enthusiastic hobbyists. And yes, Dalbergia is far less common than walnut. Some species are listed.


Why doesn't B&W do a gloss finish on their veneers? It's much classier in my view.

I have no problem with that, so long as the listening is double blind. It cannot even be single blind, as the person doing the switching can give subtle clues. Then if he consistently hears a difference, he can choose which coloration he prefers. If not, his taste and budget will be his guide. My point is that SS amps these days exhibit very little coloration, so the issue seems pretty black and white.

These debates are really tiring and drives me away from this forum.. Has it occurred to anybody that being so right makes you wrong? It does not matter to me who's right or wrong. This is the B&W forum, not the DBT forum, or I design high end audio for car forum, nor I'm a rocket scientist forum.


I do enjoy discussions on this forum, even debate.related to B&W. However debating: entry level vs. mid tier vs. top of the line amps is not the intent of this forum. That will likely cause debate too.


Can we attempt to stay focused on enjoying B&W for the most part? Please


See Ya,

Steve
 
#18,608 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasseAddict  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24804842


These debates are really tiring and drives me away from this forum.. Has it occurred to anybody that being so right makes you wrong? It does not matter to me who's right or wrong. This is the B&W forum, not the DBT forum, or I design high end audio for car forum, nor I'm a rocket scientist forum.


I do enjoy discussions on this forum, even debate.related to B&W. However debating: entry level vs. mid tier vs. top of the line amps is not the intent of this forum. That will likely cause debate too.


Can we attempt to stay focused on enjoying B&W for the most part? Please


See Ya,

Steve

If you review just the last few pages here, you'll note that B&W owners also own amps and come here for advice. I think they deserve accurate information when they seek help. There's a lot of misinformation on this forum and the audiophile press, like amps allowing one to "hear further into the music", or tubes sounding "liquid". If people stop reading and believing that rubbish and stop worrying about amps, they can spend more on speakers. Maybe they'll move up to the Diamond series, or move up within the Diamond series. I view that as a good thing.
 
#18,609 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmstreithorst  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24804458


I live in Brazil and I am building my listening/ HT space. My 802D2 is somewhere in the middle of the atlantic in a cargo ship on the way to my shaking and eager hands. I have a pair of SCM 1 ( Nautilus) that I will use as a surround. Center will be an HTM2 D2 ( space and wife permiting) or a HTM4D2. Amplification is a 10 year old "still in the box" NT 512 (a rebranded Bryston 9B or 9 B-ST, not sure). Processor and pre-amp is an Integra 80.3. Source will be Oppo 105 and a Rega RP3. All, except for the center speaker, are already purchased.


i will be traveling to the US for Xmas and want to go to my dealer do audition pre-amps for my stereo listening. Since I can not audition at home, I have to ask the dealer to have available the set ups I want to audition.


The best way that I can describe what I want is a detailed sound that I know the 802's can deliver with a "liquid" character. So I thought tubes. I listen to Classical ( from symphonic to solo cello suits, jazz and rock ( from jimi hendrix, led zeppelin and acdc to dire straits and peter gabriel). Good audiophile recording are not always available, so... vynil (prefered) and cds will be the main thing.


Now for the questions that I hope the good experienced folk of this thread can help me with.


Where will my money be best invested:


(I) stereo tube amp to drive the 802s as I listen to stereo ( with the amp mismatch downside of using the lexicon for center and surround and the tube amp for left and right when watching shows and opera)?


(II) tube pre-amp with a pass through to the processor?


I tend to think that (II) is more reasonable. What you guys think?


In those lines, I am considering 2 alternatives:


(A) Mcintosh C2500;


Pros


Price ( as compared with audio research)

Looks

Built in phono stage fo MM and MC

Rre-sale value in the long run


Cons


Not sure



(B) Audio Research LS27 or REF 5


Pros


Arguably the best tube pre-amp out there


Cons


Price tag (for something without the phono stage built in), which I will have to buy later on ( and use Integra's in the meanwhile.



So, I want to hear the Audio Research, but it seems indefecible price wise ( except if it give the leap in performance that I want - i.e the " liquid feel without compromising detail).


Finally, there might be something (or some other strategy) out there that I realy should try and that I do not know of and should audition on my US trip ( ideas anyone?)


In short: invest in tube amp or tube pre-amp? Audio research vs Mcintosh vs something else?


Sorry for the long post.

It sounds like you have good gear already. I suggest you listen to your current setup before changing things up.


Tubes can introduce distortion, in general they will do so more than SS amps. IMO, they offer no advantage unless you enjoy distortion, or what is called coloration. The term "liquid" is vague and really meaningless. If you get a well designed tube preamp or amp, they will not add distortion and will sound just like a good SS unit. I like the blue meter on the McIntosh SS amps, but they may be distracting for movies.


The Oppo has a good reputation. I have a 103 and run analog out to my cheap prepro and HDMI direct to my PJ. That way all the audio processing is done by the Oppo and the preamp just selects the source and adjusts gain. Clean and simple.


Good vinyl can be indistinguishable from CD, but given the same master, will not be better. I have Adele 21 on both CD and vinyl. The differences are surface noise and a track or two is missing on the LP.


My recommendation is that you spend money to move up to the 800D2's and change out the electronics if you feel it necessary down the road.
 
#18,610 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24805913


If you review just the last few pages here, you'll note that B&W owners also own amps and come here for advice. I think they deserve accurate information when they seek help. There's a lot of misinformation on this forum and the audiophile press, like amps allowing one to "hear further into the music", or tubes sounding "liquid". If people stop reading and believing that rubbish and stop worrying about amps, they can spend more on speakers. Maybe they'll move up to the Diamond series, or move up within the Diamond series. I view that as a good thing.

Jon-I agree with what you just said, and if can keep it this simple, that's great. My issue was the long debate over DBT and who's right...that went on forever and really did not need to be on this forum. I agree many people come to this forum and ask advice on amps. There's a group on this forum that will argue till the cows come home if there's any difference between mid tier and upper tier amps? We can all agree there's a price difference, appearance difference, and weight difference. Does that equate to sounding better? That's where the debate begins and IMHO not for this forum. No question from me that money might be better spent on Diamond series, and use mid tiers amps. Better yet use a top tier used amp and pay less than a mid tier. I would also point out that while lesser expensive amps might sound as good as a top tier amps...that does not mean it can handles the load as long, will last as long, nor does it always have as good of individual components, heat sinks/heat rejection methods, nor does it "warm up" as fast to produce the best sound. We could discuss all day long about the wire used inside an amp, the connectors inside an amp or resisters, capacitors, and diodes. How about who uses the best circuit boards, or has the shortest path on a circuit board? The majority of the amp debate skips components, warranty length and how long an amp will last? Yet at the price points we discuss...how long it will last is vital. In making a decision.


My primary point is: that the intangibles are vast and wide. For example...how many people focus on upgrading a speaker instead of fixing the room? Simple cheap room fixes deliver much more value than most system upgrades...yet gets overlooked most of the time.


See Ya,

Steve
 
#18,611 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasseAddict  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24806214


Jon-I agree with what you just said, and if can keep it this simple, that's great. My issue was the long debate over DBT and who's right...that went on forever and really did not need to be on this forum. I agree many people come to this forum and ask advice on amps. There's a group on this forum that will argue till the cows come home if there's any difference between mid tier and upper tier amps? We can all agree there's a price difference, appearance difference, and weight difference. Does that equate to sounding better? That's where the debate begins and IMHO not for this forum. No question from me that money might be better spent on Diamond series, and use mid tiers amps. Better yet use a top tier used amp and pay less than a mid tier. I would also point out that while lesser expensive amps might sound as good as a top tier amps...that does not mean it can handles the load as long, will last as long, nor does it always have as good of individual components, heat sinks/heat rejection methods, nor does it "warm up" as fast to produce the best sound. We could discuss all day long about the wire used inside an amp, the connectors inside an amp or resisters, capacitors, and diodes. How about who uses the best circuit boards, or has the shortest path on a circuit board? The majority of the amp debate skips components, warranty length and how long an amp will last? Yet at the price points we discuss...how long it will last is vital. In making a decision.


My primary point is: that the intangibles are vast and wide. For example...how many people focus on upgrading a speaker instead of fixing the room? Simple cheap room fixes deliver much more value than most system upgrades...yet gets overlooked most of the time.


See Ya,

Steve

We're in complete agreement. I bought the Bryston because of the build quality, warranty and aesthetics. Or let's say I bought it first because it has excellent specs, then was willing to spend more than absolutely necessary because of the other factors. It would be probably classified as a mid-tier amp nowadays. That doesn't mean I think it sounds better than less expensive amps or worse than more expensive amps, as I don't think I could hear a difference in DBT. What concerns me is all the misleading posts, articles, etc, that will make guys think they must spend more on electronics to improve their sound quality. Recording, speakers, room, in that order. I got my mic the other day and will be stating to use REW when I finish my HT build. Should be fun.


I'd never try to talk a guy (or girl) out of spending more on electronics if they have the money and like a particular piece of gear. That's part of what makes this hobby fun. I just don't want anybody for whom cost is a factor thinking that they must spend more than they are comfortable on electronics, or that doing so will "lift any veils".
 
#18,612 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600_100#post_24806271


We're in complete agreement. I bought the Bryston because of the build quality, warranty and aesthetics. Or let's say I bought it first because it has excellent specs, then was willing to spend more than absolutely necessary because of the other factors. It would be probably classified as a mid-tier amp nowadays. That doesn't mean I think it sounds better than less expensive amps or worse than more expensive amps, as I don't think I could hear a difference in DBT. What concerns me is all the misleading posts, articles, etc, that will make guys think they must spend more on electronics to improve their sound quality. Recording, speakers, room, in that order. I got my mic the other day and will be stating to use REW when I finish my HT build. Should be fun.


I'd never try to talk a guy (or girl) out of spending more on electronics if they have the money and like a particular piece of gear. That's part of what makes this hobby fun. I just don't want anybody for whom cost is a factor thinking that they must spend more than they are comfortable on electronics, or that doing so will "lift any veils".

Don't forget our ears they must be cleaned



Yes, ears, recording, room, speakers and them amps, pre- amps.


Parasound makes very good amps for the money
 
#18,613 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24806087


It sounds like you have good gear already. I suggest you listen to your current setup before changing things up.


Tubes can introduce distortion, in general they will do so more than SS amps. IMO, they offer no advantage unless you enjoy distortion, or what is called coloration. The term "liquid" is vague and really meaningless. If you get a well designed tube preamp or amp, they will not add distortion and will sound just like a good SS unit. I like the blue meter on the McIntosh SS amps, but they may be distracting for movies.


The Oppo has a good reputation. I have a 103 and run analog out to my cheap prepro and HDMI direct to my PJ. That way all the audio processing is done by the Oppo and the preamp just selects the source and adjusts gain. Clean and simple.


Good vinyl can be indistinguishable from CD, but given the same master, will not be better. I have Adele 21 on both CD and vinyl. The differences are surface noise and a track or two is missing on the LP.


My recommendation is that you spend money to move up to the 800D2's and change out the electronics if you feel it necessary down the road.

I would be careful about recommending that he move up to the 800's, I understand it's only a recommendation. I bring this up because you seem so quick to point out to people your opinion about amps and how people wouldn't be able to tell a difference in DBT's well there have been enough reports by people who have heard both the 802's and 800's and the only difference they could discern, if they were able to hear a difference at all, (and some couldn't) was a bit better bass response. So if a user was using a sub there would be no audible difference for those reporting this experience. This has also been reported when comparing 804's to 803's, 803's to 802', etc, etc. i.e. subtle increases in bass. Given the huge price differential between the 802's and 800's and that Jmstreithorst seems to be excited about getting the speakers suggesting he may not have made the right move is a bit much. In my opinion of course.


Some people are aware that tube amps can have a higher distortion level than SS amps and some aren't so it was good that you point that out but really that's meaningless if it's that particular characteristic people are looking for i.e. the sound often associated with tube amps. So if that's what he is after it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he would in fact discern more of a difference, perhaps a more satisfying sound by purchasing some tube equipment rather than moving from 802's to 800's.
 
#18,614 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600_100#post_24807360


I would be careful about recommending that he move up to the 800's, I understand it's only a recommendation. I bring this up because you seem so quick to point out to people your opinion about amps and how people wouldn't be able to tell a difference in DBT's well there have been enough reports by people who have heard both the 802's and 800's and the only difference they could discern, if they were able to hear a difference at all, (and some couldn't) was a bit better bass response. So if a user was using a sub there would be no audible difference for those reporting this experience. This has also been reported when comparing 804's to 803's, 803's to 802', etc, etc. i.e. subtle increases in bass. Given the huge price differential between the 802's and 800's and that Jmstreithorst seems to be excited about getting the speakers suggesting he may not have made the right move is a bit much. In my opinion of course.


Some people are aware that tube amps can have a higher distortion level than SS amps and some aren't so it was good that you point that out but really that's meaningless if it's that particular characteristic people are looking for i.e. the sound often associated with tube amps. So if that's what he is after it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he would in fact discern more of a difference, perhaps a more satisfying sound by purchasing some tube equipment rather than moving from 802's to 800's.

Have you listened to 802Diamonds vs 800Diamonds?


I have both and the 800Diamonds are much better to my ears. Now quantifying that, I agree is difficult so listen and you will see
Is the price difference worth it, well it all depends how you look at it! I intend to keep these speakers for the next twenty years, so for me it's worth it!


Now would I be happy just with 802Diamonds? Yes of course, but I wanted a great sound stage so I bought 800Diamonds for my front speakers! Symphonies sound fabulous.
 
#18,615 ·
Although there is a specific DB1 thread, no one seems to be following it and therefore I am posting this here...


I finally updated the last piece of my home theatre system with the DB1 sub. It is paired with Diamond 803s, CM Centre 2 and PM1s as surround. All being driven my a McIntosh MX121 and MC205. I redid the Audyssey setup for the room.


My question is, what are the optimal parameters for the DB1 ? The manual (which is rather poor) implies some settings if you have it paired with other B&W components but seems to leave it at that. I haven't yet had a chance to check out the SubApp.


Recommendations please ?


Thanks,
 
#18,616 ·
Check out the SubApp before you do anything else. This PC based software allows you to run a calibration routine so that the DB1 can equalize itself to the unique characteristics of your room. From there the setup is pretty straightforward.


Regards,


Patrick

B&W Group North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre.goyette  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24807443


Although there is a specific DB1 thread, no one seems to be following it and therefore I am posting this here...


I finally updated the last piece of my home theatre system with the DB1 sub. It is paired with Diamond 803s, CM Centre 2 and PM1s as surround. All being driven my a McIntosh MX121 and MC205. I redid the Audyssey setup for the room.


My question is, what are the optimal parameters for the DB1 ? The manual (which is rather poor) implies some settings if you have it paired with other B&W components but seems to leave it at that. I haven't yet had a chance to check out the SubApp.


Recommendations please ?


Thanks,
 
#18,617 ·
Many thanks to bothe inputs. I just bought the 802 and that was already what I could aford both financialy and in terms of foot print. I will audition my system a lot bfore my trip to the US. Moreover i will audition any equipment that I might purchase, obviously. However thoughts and experience are always good and should be balanced by one's ears ( cleaned beforehand, obviously.


My point is that it is exiciting to read and research and. Listen to other in order to think out of the box. An interesting Idea actualy wasgiven to me at other forum. Try the Mcintosh C500. It can be bothe tubed or ss. Has anyone had an experience with those and Diamonds?


Best,
 
#18,618 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24807435


Have you listened to 802Diamonds vs 800Diamonds?


I have both and the 800Diamonds are much better to my ears. Now quantifying that, I agree is difficult so listen and you will see
Is the price difference worth it, well it all depends how you look at it! I intend to keep these speakers for the next twenty years, so for me it's worth it!


Now would I be happy just with 802Diamonds? Yes of course, but I wanted a great sound stage so I bought 800Diamonds for my front speakers! Symphonies sound fabulous.

I own both so yes but I only have my ears and everyone hears things differently so just because person A hears a difference means nothing to person B. If person B doesn't hear a difference when person A does it doesn't mean person B has hearing problems and by the same token it doesn't mean because person A hears a difference that there is a difference.
 
#18,619 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18600#post_24807360


I would be careful about recommending that he move up to the 800's, I understand it's only a recommendation. I bring this up because you seem so quick to point out to people your opinion about amps and how people wouldn't be able to tell a difference in DBT's well there have been enough reports by people who have heard both the 802's and 800's and the only difference they could discern, if they were able to hear a difference at all, (and some couldn't) was a bit better bass response. So if a user was using a sub there would be no audible difference for those reporting this experience. This has also been reported when comparing 804's to 803's, 803's to 802', etc, etc. i.e. subtle increases in bass. Given the huge price differential between the 802's and 800's and that Jmstreithorst seems to be excited about getting the speakers suggesting he may not have made the right move is a bit much. In my opinion of course.


Some people are aware that tube amps can have a higher distortion level than SS amps and some aren't so it was good that you point that out but really that's meaningless if it's that particular characteristic people are looking for i.e. the sound often associated with tube amps. So if that's what he is after it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he would in fact discern more of a difference, perhaps a more satisfying sound by purchasing some tube equipment rather than moving from 802's to 800's.

Once again, I completely agree. The price differential probably isn't justified by the 2Hz greater bass extension. But the 800's are quite a bit larger, heavier, and impressive looking, so way cooler.
My sales guy even expressed skepticism when I said I thought I'd prefer the 800's over the 802's, as my room is 21x14x8, so small to medium. But I was trading some WATT Puppies, and the bass extension is pretty much the same between them and the 802's. I didn't want to go halfway, and it was worth it to me to get the top of the line. Personal decision, not based on SQ as I wasn't able to listen to the 800s before ordering them. I don't mean to badmouth the 802's, as I think the only difference is the bass unit, and a sub should certainly eliminate the small difference in bass response. What the heck, it's only money, right?


There's a difference between moving up to the 800's over the 802's and going tubes, though, at least in my mind. More accurate bass response more faithfully reproduces the information contained in the recording. Deliberately distorting the audio signal by choosing tubes means a less faithful reproduction of the recording, so is something I would prefer to avoid. "The Absolute Sound" is defined as reproducing the precise sound of the original performance in ones listening room. Adding distortion seems counterproductive to achieving that goal.
 
#18,620 ·
This is all getting out of hand... DBT, arguing 802 vs 800, car stereo amps, etc. In my opinion as an engineer- buy what sounds best to you, lol
That's what I do... and for the record the most impressive speakers I have heard for the money (as of today) are Golden Ear SuperSat. I bought the set up for my "daily living room" and I couldn't be more impressed by a bunch of $250 speakers. Are they B&W, absolutely not. Are they A LOT of bang for the buck, absolutely... and probably the best audio investment I've made in a while. I paired them with my Rotel receiver and now I'm on the hunt for a new B&W set up in my mancave. I'm just too cheap to buy a good amp when I know what they cost to manufacture...



For the record Patrick- ASW12CM subwoofer sucks and I have two of them! Last time I listen to a sales guy's opinion.
I'll trade them for a JL if anyone is looking for a swap.....
 
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