***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 142 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4231 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 03:30 PM
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Just got back from Home Depot where I spent $24 on wood, MDF and glue to make a stand for the Horizon due to arrive Tuesday.
Don't know if I'll ultimately keep it, but I want to make sure I give it a proper evaluation. If it's anything like the S2s, rake angle will be important to throw the sound up on the screen so I want to have that ready to go as soon as it's out of the box.

Obviously greatly looking forward to finally hearing what all the fuss is about- but at the same time I have to say I've warmed up even more to the S2s and if do end up I migrating to the Horizon + Towers, I'm going to greatly miss the discrete aesthetic presence of the three identical smaller monitors. I also believe that setup provides the best opportunity for seamless cohesion in the front soundstage. I'm looking to see if a little more low end authority and the dedicated mid drivers will trump that (fairly substantial) aspect for me.
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post #4232 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 07:24 PM
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Horizon is in. Looks like I left just enough room under the TV a month or more ago when I measured and wall mounted it haha. Only about an inch to spare.
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post #4233 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Horizon is in. Looks like I left just enough room under the TV a month or more ago when I measured and wall mounted it haha. Only about an inch to spare.

I forgot- do you use room correction software? You and I are in the same boat at the moment as far as getting the levels right with the less efficient S2s on the L and R.
Not sure if I should jack up the l and R volume, or lower the center.
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post #4234 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 08:15 PM
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Yeah I have a denon x4200w and use the audyssey correction
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post #4235 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Horizon is in. Looks like I left just enough room under the TV a month or more ago when I measured and wall mounted it haha. Only about an inch to spare.
How long ago did you order it?
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post #4236 of 5626 Old 09-11-2016, 10:58 PM
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Bought it used from classified section. Seeing if I like the horizon better than Sierra center.

If I do I'll order a RAAL horizon to match my Sierra 2s
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post #4237 of 5626 Old 09-12-2016, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Paulidan XM View Post
Just got back from Home Depot where I spent $24 on wood, MDF and glue to make a stand for the Horizon due to arrive Tuesday.
Don't know if I'll ultimately keep it, but I want to make sure I give it a proper evaluation. If it's anything like the S2s, rake angle will be important to throw the sound up on the screen so I want to have that ready to go as soon as it's out of the box.

Obviously greatly looking forward to finally hearing what all the fuss is about- but at the same time I have to say I've warmed up even more to the S2s and if do end up I migrating to the Horizon + Towers, I'm going to greatly miss the discrete aesthetic presence of the three identical smaller monitors. I also believe that setup provides the best opportunity for seamless cohesion in the front soundstage. I'm looking to see if a little more low end authority and the dedicated mid drivers will trump that (fairly substantial) aspect for me.
Hey how high off the ground are you going to set the Horizon? I only have about 18 inches from bottom of TV screen to the floor to play with, and talking to Ascend they make it sound like it needs to be higher.

Thanks

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post #4238 of 5626 Old 09-12-2016, 10:51 AM
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Hey how high off the ground are you going to set the Horizon? I only have about 18 inches from bottom of TV screen to the floor to play with, and talking to Ascend they make it sound like it needs to be higher.

Thanks
It all depend on your ear height when sitting down at your listening position

You can do a simple calculation base on your ear height, tweeter height off the ground and 15 degree vertical dispensary angle for the RAAL to find out if your Horizon is positioned too low

Even if you find Horizon is sitting too low and you can't place it any higher, the problem still can be fixed by aiming the Horizon at a slightly upward angle

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post #4239 of 5626 Old 09-12-2016, 11:13 AM
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It all depend on your ear height when sitting down at your listening position

You can do a simple calculation base on your ear height, tweeter height off the ground and 15 degree vertical dispensary angle for the RAAL to find out if your Horizon is positioned too low

Even if you find Horizon is sitting too low and you can't place it any higher, the problem still can be fixed by aiming the Horizon at a slightly upward angle
I was thinking about putting a slight tilt on the stand, thanks.

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post #4240 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 02:59 AM
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Im about to be in the same boat. Going to be cutting a hole into the wall when I repaint and moving my electronics to an AV stand in the garage and mounting a projector on the wall. my one issue becomes that the horizon will sit lower than my Sierra 2's. The stand it is on is roughly 16" and if I mount the 120" screen it will cut the horizon almost in half.

I have to find a stand (or build one) that will be low enough so the horizon come to the edge of the screen.
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post #4241 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Im about to be in the same boat. Going to be cutting a hole into the wall when I repaint and moving my electronics to an AV stand in the garage and mounting a projector on the wall. my one issue becomes that the horizon will sit lower than my Sierra 2's. The stand it is on is roughly 16" and if I mount the 120" screen it will cut the horizon almost in half.

I have to find a stand (or build one) that will be low enough so the horizon come to the edge of the screen.
@Theriddler07sms , How are you finding the NrT Horizon? Does it sound good? Do you like it?
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post #4242 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Im about to be in the same boat. Going to be cutting a hole into the wall when I repaint and moving my electronics to an AV stand in the garage and mounting a projector on the wall. my one issue becomes that the horizon will sit lower than my Sierra 2's. The stand it is on is roughly 16" and if I mount the 120" screen it will cut the horizon almost in half.

I have to find a stand (or build one) that will be low enough so the horizon come to the edge of the screen.
Will the screen be drop down in front of the Horizon? If you are using a high quality acoustic transparent screen, then it should be okay even if it covers the Horizon partially

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post #4243 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 10:54 AM
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Haven't gotten to really hear the horizon yet. Have days off coming up and will get a better chance to hear it soon.

Was watching some HBO stuff this morning which was 2.0 and switched to vudu, which was 5.1 and I can tell a clear difference.

I don't want to drop the screen down in front of it. Drop down, acoustic panels are very expensive. I might be losing the TV Stand all together and mounting a fixed screen to the wall and putting my electronics in the garage that's on the other side of that wall.

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post #4244 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 11:53 AM
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Hey how high off the ground are you going to set the Horizon? I only have about 18 inches from bottom of TV screen to the floor to play with, and talking to Ascend they make it sound like it needs to be higher.

Thanks
My screen bottom edge starts at 29" from the floor.
18" is certainly low to the ground, but the at the same time your tv image is lower to the ground too. To my way of thinking the idea is to mate the sound to the image. If the image you are watching has a mid point slightly lower than your horizon(sight) line, then I wouldn't think you would want the audio seeming to exist feet above that. As far as your height, I don't see why you would have a problem as long as it is angled up- the extent of which will probably require some trial and error.
I've found cheap wooden paint stirring sticks make excellent shims for raising the front end of a speaker.

while I kill time waiting for the sound of the UPS truck to screech to a halt outside, I figure I would throw these up.
I'm no craftsman when it comes to woodworking projects, but I like to fabricate stuff tailored to my specific needs. Not usually fancy, but it works.

Here's the elements for the stand.



and how it fits together.


And here is how extreme the angle I'm starting out with is.


I was originally marking off a much less steep incline, but when I started projecting out from the position of the tweeter at the final elevation, it seemed it was going to create a direct line right at ear level. That doesn't seem right to me since the screen middle is a above my ear level.
I unintentionally ended up with a similarly extreme angle when I made the stand for the S2 center, and that's seemed to have worked out ideally so... we'll see.

If it does end up being too steep, I'll use some paint stick shims to raise the back end until I can cut new posts. That's the main reason I gave the back lip a more generous height. A single 1"x2" would have been enough to keep it from slipping off- but with a $1500 speaker, I want to have a little more room for error and caution.

And...UPS just pulled up. Love how they roll these boxes end over end instead of picking them up. I cringed when I saw them do that with the S2s, so I fully expected it now. Good thing Dave and Co. have these things well packed and cushioned.
Looking forward to breaking it in tonight with Civil War, which I haven't seen yet. Should be interesting.
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post #4245 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 12:38 PM
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My screen bottom edge starts at 29" from the floor.
18" is certainly low to the ground, but the at the same time your tv image is lower to the ground too. To my way of thinking the idea is to mate the sound to the image. If the image you are watching has a mid point slightly lower than your horizon(sight) line, then I wouldn't think you would want the audio seeming to exist feet above that. As far as your height, I don't see why you would have a problem as long as it is angled up- the extent of which will probably require some trial and error.
I've found cheap wooden paint stirring sticks make excellent shims for raising the front end of a speaker.

while I kill time waiting for the sound of the UPS truck to screech to a halt outside, I figure I would throw these up.
I'm no craftsman when it comes to woodworking projects, but I like to fabricate stuff tailored to my specific needs. Not usually fancy, but it works.

Here's the elements for the stand.



and how it fits together.


And here is how extreme the angle I'm starting out with is.


I was originally marking off a much less steep incline, but when I started projecting out from the position of the tweeter at the final elevation, it seemed it was going to create a direct line right at ear level. That doesn't seem right to me since the screen middle is a above my ear level.
I unintentionally ended up with a similarly extreme angle when I made the stand for the S2 center, and that's seemed to have worked out ideally so... we'll see.

If it does end up being too steep, I'll use some paint stick shims to raise the back end until I can cut new posts. That's the main reason I gave the back lip a more generous height. A single 1"x2" would have been enough to keep it from slipping off- but with a $1500 speaker, I want to have a little more room for error and caution.

And...UPS just pulled up. Love how they roll these boxes end over end instead of picking them up. I cringed when I saw them do that with the S2s, so I fully expected it now. Good thing Dave and Co. have these things well packed and cushioned.
Looking forward to breaking it in tonight with Civil War, which I haven't seen yet. Should be interesting.
Awesome looking so how tall will this be? As for me when my DLP is a the perfect height that when I am sitting in my recliner my eye line is directly in the middle, so I have always to had to make the center channel "work".

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post #4246 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 02:12 PM
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Haven't gotten to really hear the horizon yet. Have days off coming up and will get a beer chance to hear it soon.
Is that how you evaluate speakers? With beer drinking?

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post #4247 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 04:30 PM
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@Paulidan XM or you can use some of those monitor isolation foam pads.
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post #4248 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 05:58 PM
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Is that how you evaluate speakers? With beer drinking?
Is there any other way to properly evaluate anything?
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post #4249 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 06:54 PM
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i got a new receiver, what crossover is best for the sierra-2 and horizon?
audessey set it LCR at 40, i manually changed it to 80.
what do you guys have your x-overs at?
thanks.
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post #4250 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 06:56 PM
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i got a new receiver, what crossover is best for the sierra-2 and horizon?
audessey set it LCR at 40, i manually changed it to 80.
what do you guys have your x-overs at?
thanks.
I usually set mine at 60hz. I believe they extend down to 40 without a problem but drop off pretty quick after that.

I would try 60 and 80 and see what sounds better with your sub.
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post #4251 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rysher View Post
i got a new receiver, what crossover is best for the sierra-2 and horizon?

audessey set it LCR at 40, i manually changed it to 80.

what do you guys have your x-overs at?

thanks.


For home theater, I think it's best to stick with an 89 HZ crossover. There's lots of good research supporting this.


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post #4252 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rustolemite View Post
Awesome looking so how tall will this be? As for me when my DLP is a the perfect height that when I am sitting in my recliner my eye line is directly in the middle, so I have always to had to make the center channel "work".
Back end is about 12.5". Front end is about 15". If the Horizon is 11" high, I should have about 3" of clearance from the top most edge...which is actually going to be sitting lower than my S2 center does now. Fortunately it's all just inexpensive wood. If I need to make changes, it won't be too difficult or expensive.
When I feel like i have the height and angles dialed in properly, I'll use wood glue in addition to screws to make it more solid and permanent.

Probably won't paint it as I did my first set of home made stands. I've been using some matte black cloth draped over the wood and the speaker will sit on that.
The relative shapelessness of the cloth helps the center disappear better under illumination from the screen.

Sounds like you don't have to worry too much about inclining the center in your set up. In fact, laserjock's suggestion of isolation pads might be all you really need if you can get a stand that's otherwise low enough.

It's funny that I use them (well, cheap yoga blocks anyway) for my $300 computer speakers, but I never thought to use them with the Sierras. I just may look into them this time.

Had three screws left to sink when my drills battery crapped out. Still haven't taken the Horizon out of the box yet. Ironically, the last few movies I was super enthused about seeing (My Bodyguard, House On Haunted Hill ) were all 2.0. It was also interesting how vastly different the two channels came across for each movie. My Bodyguard took me a few minutes to adjust to, but by 15 minutes in it sounded 'right'. HoHH sounded right from frame one. It even took me a while to realize it was 2.0 and not mono- that's how perfectly centered the image was. Both were ultimately excellent in that regard, and Grusin's lovely score for MB really shined on the S2s. But I can't help but wonder what, if anything, the towers would have added.
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post #4253 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 08:44 PM
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I frequently forget that my HBO app on my xbox only plays in 2.0 and not 5.1. I made it thru a whole movie after I plugged in the Horizon before I realized it was 2.0 haha. Than flipped over to Vudu and I could easily tell a difference. The dialog is much more clear. Wish I still have a S2 center so I could A/B it.
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post #4254 of 5626 Old 09-13-2016, 10:48 PM
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Ok, so here are my options. I can either put the Horizon Directly Below the screen with a slight tilt up. Or mount the screen about 15" out from the wall and mount the Horizon behind an AT screen at eye level.
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post #4255 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 02:16 AM
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Ok, so here are my options. I can either put the Horizon Directly Below the screen with a slight tilt up. Or mount the screen about 15" out from the wall and mount the Horizon behind an AT screen at eye level.
I vote for option A. I've come to believe that rake angle is just as essential an element of placement for highest performance, as toe in and the rest.

I was worried when I packed up the S2 center and took the cloth cover off the stand and compared it with the new one. I thought I was deviating a slight bit in the angle, but the Horizon stand ended up with a substantially steeper incline. Fortunately it was just what was needed apparently.
Priority one was to see if I could get the speaker to project sound at the proper height. Any other positive attributes would be moot if the sound seemed to be localized below the action. In terms of height, I never once felt it was off. Mission 1 accomplished.

May still be too early to come to any definitive conclusions- but my initial impressions are that this is much closer to what I was looking for/anticipating when I upgraded to the S2s earlier this summer. I definitely hear more gravitas in the low end. Very close to the S2, but overall seems more dynamic with a larger gamut between the low and high end that belie the minor difference in stated specs. I guess that's one of the outcomes of giving the mids their own dedicated driver?

That actually may not prove to be a plus for me as almost all my viewing is late night and it's a challenge to get the right volume balance between soft whispers and loud 'splosions. That quality over time may turn out to be a PITA. I don't think it's something I'll know within a 30 day window.

Some non acoustic related observations
• was surprised to see it wasn't double boxed. The S2's weren't either, but the 170's from 14 years ago were and I was expecting it giving the price point of this.
Still arrived OK, but seems like there is much less tolerance for the abuses that might be encountered during shipping.

• Was also surprised to see no magnet protecting the tweeter as there was on the S2's.

• have to say I also wasn't as impressed with the style of packaging. The S2's come in a nice cloth drawstring bag, while the substantially more expensive Horizon came wrapped in a cloth sheet that was then taped up with shipping tape. For most people that's not going to be a big deal. But as someone who boxes his stuff up for long periods of inactivity, it's just not as elegant a solution as what was accorded the S2s. The cloth is a lot thicker and plush than what is used on the drawstring bags though.

• Really wish the same color of Espresso that is on the Asian made cabinets were available for the towers and Horizon. The satin black doesn't look bad, but the espresso was a great compromise between classy in full light and functional (disappearing) in a dark room. Satin black is understated to the point of seeming merely functional all the time. If I end up sending it back it will likely only be to get a different finish before I commit to the towers.
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post #4256 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Paulidan XM View Post
I vote for option A. I've come to believe that rake angle is just as essential an element of placement for highest performance, as toe in and the rest.


• have to say I also wasn't as impressed with the style of packaging. The S2's come in a nice cloth drawstring bag, while the substantially more expensive Horizon came wrapped in a cloth sheet that was then taped up with shipping tape. For most people that's not going to be a big deal. But as someone who boxes his stuff up for long periods of inactivity, it's just not as elegant a solution as what was accorded the S2s. The cloth is a lot thicker and plush than what is used on the drawstring bags though.

• Really wish the same color of Espresso that is on the Asian made cabinets were available for the towers and Horizon. The satin black doesn't look bad, but the espresso was a great compromise between classy in full light and functional (disappearing) in a dark room. Satin black is understated to the point of seeming merely functional all the time. If I end up sending it back it will likely only be to get a different finish before I commit to the towers.
I will move my horizon down lower while watching my tv to test it thoroughly before I buy my screen and stuff. I still have to test out the NRT horizon before I make a decision to buy a RAAL Horizon. Hell, if it works as well as I think it will I may not need a RAAL horizon.

As far as packing, my used Horizon came wrapped in a blanket that was taped and some bubble wrap surrounding it. Thought it was because it was a used speakers. Guess I was wrong. Mine was not double boxed either. Had ample room and foam on the sides though.

As far as the color goes, I believe you can order a horizon that is the same color as the S2's if necessary. They either have to paint it here or build the cabinet here. I am not sure on that. But if I order a Horizon RAAL and decide to stick with S2's instead of towers I will want the color to match.
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post #4257 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Ok, so here are my options. I can either put the Horizon Directly Below the screen with a slight tilt up. Or mount the screen about 15" out from the wall and mount the Horizon behind an AT screen at eye level.
Do you have more than one row of seating at the same height? If so, mounting the Horizon behind the screen aimed straight ahead would work well for both rows, vs. titling the center which can be aimed directly at ear height for one row or the other.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
Headphone & Portable AKG K7XX | HE-400i | NAD HP50 | Sony MDR-1A | Soundmagic E50 & E80 | X5ii | DX50 | E12

Last edited by cel4145; 09-14-2016 at 08:55 AM.
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post #4258 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 08:16 AM
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Just one row. And 90% of the time it's just me
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post #4259 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
I will move my horizon down lower while watching my tv to test it thoroughly before I buy my screen and stuff. I still have to test out the NRT horizon before I make a decision to buy a RAAL Horizon. Hell, if it works as well as I think it will I may not need a RAAL horizon.

As far as packing, my used Horizon came wrapped in a blanket that was taped and some bubble wrap surrounding it. Thought it was because it was a used speakers. Guess I was wrong. Mine was not double boxed either. Had ample room and foam on the sides though.

As far as the color goes, I believe you can order a horizon that is the same color as the S2's if necessary. They either have to paint it here or build the cabinet here. I am not sure on that. But if I order a Horizon RAAL and decide to stick with S2's instead of towers I will want the color to match.
Ascend does not build tower or horizon cabinets oversea, all tower and horizon cabinets are build here in the States

You can order Sierra-1/Sierra-2 with domestic made cabinet in Satin Espresso or Satin Dark Cherry finish for an additional $100 to match up with the finish on Horizon and Tower

Here is a link for the domestic vs import cabinets

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...-my-2-s!/page2

The main difference is the domestic has larger flare port, has a reveal line on the edge near the front and the mount screw hole is different, sound wise, both versions are identical

5.2.4 HT - Sony XBR75X850C, Denon X4400H, Monitor Audio GS60, GSLCR, GSFX, C380LCR x4 and Martin Logan Descent I x2
2 Channel - Ascend Sierra Tower w/ RAAL, Sony HAP-Z1ES, Marantz SA-KI-Pearl, Primaluna Dialogue Three, Parasound Halo A21, JL Audio CR1, JL Audio E112 and ATS Acoustics room treatments

Last edited by justthinking; 09-14-2016 at 09:36 AM.
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post #4260 of 5626 Old 09-14-2016, 09:43 AM
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I knew one was made here just didn't remember which one.
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