***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 176 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5251 of 5360 Old 02-26-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
Just measured for you, the dimension you are looking for is ~ 4.75"


Hope this helps!
It does, and that's great news for me, thanks!

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post #5252 of 5360 Old 02-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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H Guys ,


Still setting up and tuning my Towers and Fv18 . hopefully some one can help me here.


1. What are the crossover frequencies for the towers ? with respect to Fv18
Audyssey has come up with 60 hz for towers , 40 for 340 C ( however since I am listening in stereo , the center is not activated )


2. How much of a different Dynamic EQ , Dynamic Volume and MultEQ ( Flat vs Reference ) make .

Do I just need to play with the settings and decide on for myself or is there any values one can follow?



3. Have any of you guys observed this?



When playing songs on Tidal App on Apple Tv4, I do not get HI FI / Masters quality tracks or the quality from the speakers.
But , when I login to HEOS app and selec the source as Tidal , I see tracks playing at FLAC , 16bit at 42 hz.



I was hoping to download 4K movies from Apple store and watch on my projector but looks like the Atv cannot play the full extent of Video or the audio quality the download has.


I will get a BlueSound Node 2i this week to make sure I can play highest quality songs on my setup but what source ( XBOX/ PS3 4k or Blu ray 4k Player) should I get to make sure I will be able to play Highest video and highest sound quality ( FLAC , Atmos, Vision ) from a 4k DVD or downloaded file ?

-- kris

Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, ? ? | FV18SW black oak grain finish Rev2 with paper cone driver | Marantz SR7012 | ATV 4K
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post #5253 of 5360 Old 02-28-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeriser16 View Post
H Guys ,


Still setting up and tuning my Towers and Fv18 . hopefully some one can help me here.


1. What are the crossover frequencies for the towers ? with respect to Fv18
Audyssey has come up with 60 hz for towers , 40 for 340 C ( however since I am listening in stereo , the center is not activated )


2. How much of a different Dynamic EQ , Dynamic Volume and MultEQ ( Flat vs Reference ) make .

Do I just need to play with the settings and decide on for myself or is there any values one can follow?



3. Have any of you guys observed this?



When playing songs on Tidal App on Apple Tv4, I do not get HI FI / Masters quality tracks or the quality from the speakers.
But , when I login to HEOS app and selec the source as Tidal , I see tracks playing at FLAC , 16bit at 42 hz.



I was hoping to download 4K movies from Apple store and watch on my projector but looks like the Atv cannot play the full extent of Video or the audio quality the download has.


I will get a BlueSound Node 2i this week to make sure I can play highest quality songs on my setup but what source ( XBOX/ PS3 4k or Blu ray 4k Player) should I get to make sure I will be able to play Highest video and highest sound quality ( FLAC , Atmos, Vision ) from a 4k DVD or downloaded file ?

The THX standard is 80hz crossover, with surrounds and Atmos a bit higher than that, around 100hz to 120hz.

I would only use EQ if watching movies, if not I would leave it off.

But you should definitely play around with the settings to find what works for you the best.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5254 of 5360 Old 02-28-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeriser16 View Post
H Guys ,


Still setting up and tuning my Towers and Fv18 . hopefully some one can help me here.


1. What are the crossover frequencies for the towers ? with respect to Fv18
Audyssey has come up with 60 hz for towers , 40 for 340 C ( however since I am listening in stereo , the center is not activated )


2. How much of a different Dynamic EQ , Dynamic Volume and MultEQ ( Flat vs Reference ) make .

Do I just need to play with the settings and decide on for myself or is there any values one can follow?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
The THX standard is 80hz crossover, with surrounds and Atmos a bit higher than that, around 100hz to 120hz.

I would only use EQ if watching movies, if not I would leave it off.

But you should definitely play around with the settings to find what works for you the best.
Agree with Russdawg on 1 and 3. 2, I disagree with, but it's also YMMV.

I would run Audyssey, and set the crossovers as he suggests. No one uses Dynamic Volume, it's a compressor. Dynamic EQ is definitely a YMMV, I would experiment with that.
I would start with Dyn Eq and Vol OFF, and with Reference on. That's what most people prefer. Then, maybe experiment with Flat and Dynamic EQ. Some people only want to correct lower frequencies, below 500 kHz, but you need the IOS or Android App for that.


You may find the following Audyssey and Subwoofer Setup FAQs useful.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post21782993
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
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post #5255 of 5360 Old 02-28-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
Question for Sierra Luna owners ... Curious if the Luna can easily handle a standard 80Hz crossover? If not then what crossover are you using?

Sorry I missed this... Yes, absolutely - the Luna can easily handle an 80Hz crossover. While bass is limited due to the speaker's small size, the Luna can also handle a full range signal with ease. I am using a pair of Luna's run full range (no sub) in a large bedroom with a lower bass boost of +3dB to somewhat compensate for no sub.
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post #5256 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 02:57 PM
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Have a pair of RAAL towers/center on order. I own a Denon 6500h receiver.

Does Audyssey work well with the RAAL tweeters? I read that Dave said some customers are having issues with RAAL and Audyssey. Wondering if others have had success or there are any tweaks/tips for using Audyssey with RAALs.

Thanks!

Brian R. Smith
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post #5257 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
Have a pair of RAAL towers/center on order. I own a Denon 6500h receiver.

Does Audyssey work well with the RAAL tweeters? I read that Dave said some customers are having issues with RAAL and Audyssey. Wondering if others have had success or there are any tweaks/tips for using Audyssey with RAALs.

Thanks!
I don't like Audyssey and that's why I have Dirac. But I have a friend running a Marantz 8805 and he said that it sounds great if you set Audyssey filters/EQ for the speakers below 500Hz and turn ON midrange compensation for the center channel. To do that you have to run Audyssey using the Audyssey Editor app.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #5258 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I don't like Audyssey and that's why I have Dirac. But I have a friend running a Marantz 8805 and he said that it sounds great if you set Audyssey filters/EQ for the speakers below 500Hz and turn ON midrange compensation for the center channel. To do that you have to run Audyssey using the Audyssey Editor app.
I have Audyssey. Can't afford Dirac ;-(

Specifically I'm wondering if there is any issue with Audyssey and RAALs. If so, is there a workaround?


Thanks!

Brian R. Smith
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post #5259 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 03:08 PM
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I have Audyssey. Can't afford Dirac ;-(



Specifically I'm wondering if there is any issue with Audyssey and RAALs. If so, is there a workaround?





Thanks!

I don’t think Audessey dislikes certain tweeters.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5260 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I don’t think Audessey dislikes certain tweeters.

I agree. My interest was generated by a comment Dave made in a post about the RAAL and Audyssey not working well in some cases. I'm sure he'll clarify at some point. Thanks guys.

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post #5261 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
I read that Dave said some customers are having issues with RAAL and Audyssey. Wondering if others have had success or there are any tweaks/tips for using Audyssey with RAALs.
Thanks!
I don't recall ever stating that. Audyssey doesn't know the difference between a woofer or tweeter, let alone differentiating between different types of tweeters. Audyssey is simply EQ, it will boost certain high frequencies, cut other high frequencies, and leave other frequencies alone depending on what it measures at your listening position.


Depending on how you use Audysssey, it can be beneficial for some things, or detrimental - it is fully dependent on the acoustics of your room and how much time you want to spend trying to dial it in just right for your tastes.


Our RAAL towers are already extremely neutral speakers, so most of our customers generally prefer to use little to no EQ, but Audyssey can be extremely beneficial when integrating a subwoofer.


Hope this helps!
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post #5262 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
Have a pair of RAAL towers/center on order. I own a Denon 6500h receiver.



Does Audyssey work well with the RAAL tweeters? I read that Dave said some customers are having issues with RAAL and Audyssey. Wondering if others have had success or there are any tweaks/tips for using Audyssey with RAALs.



Thanks!
I have L/C/R RAALs in Sierra 2s and use Audyssey from a Denon rcvr without issue.
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post #5263 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
I don't recall ever stating that. Audyssey doesn't know the difference between a woofer or tweeter, let alone differentiating between different types of tweeters. Audyssey is simply EQ, it will boost certain high frequencies, cut other high frequencies, and leave other frequencies alone depending on what it measures at your listening position.


Depending on how you use Audysssey, it can be beneficial for some things, or detrimental - it is fully dependent on the acoustics of your room and how much time you want to spend trying to dial it in just right for your tastes.


Our RAAL towers are already extremely neutral speakers, so most of our customers generally prefer to use little to no EQ, but Audyssey can be extremely beneficial when integrating a subwoofer.


Hope this helps!
The post mentioned a few people have had trouble with Audyssey and you recommended turning midrange compensation off. No biggie. I just wanted to know if it worked well with the Ascend towers. Thanks!

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post #5264 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
The post mentioned a few people have had trouble with Audyssey and you recommended turning midrange compensation off. No biggie. I just wanted to know if it worked well with the Ascend towers. Thanks!

Possibly, but that isn't related to the type of tweeter being used, more so that our crossovers are quite advanced and already combine midrange and tweeter to flat.


I am not a fan of "target" curves -- and many target curves in the past intentionally rolled off highs. I always recommend using a "flat" target curve, especially with ribbon tweeters.

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post #5265 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
Possibly, but that isn't related to the type of tweeter being used, more so that our crossovers are quite advanced and already combine midrange and tweeter to flat.


I am not a fan of "target" curves -- and many target curves in the past intentionally rolled off highs. I always recommend using a "flat" target curve, especially with ribbon tweeters.
OK, so you recommend turning off midrange comp. and using the flat curve. Do you recommend limiting the correction frequency to a certain range when using the RAAL?

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post #5266 of 5360 Old 03-04-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
The post mentioned a few people have had trouble with Audyssey and you recommended turning midrange compensation off. No biggie. I just wanted to know if it worked well with the Ascend towers. Thanks!

Audessey just messes up in general. It’s not perfect and cannot make perfect calculations every time. Not to mention everyone hears different and some rooms are especially difficult with unique room modes and all that.

I believe it was Dr. Floyd Toole who wrote THE book on Speakers and Acoustics, that said he does not, and does not suggest you use EQ above 500hz or so. This might also be related to @Ascend ’s statement of saying that Audessey is mainly good for integrating subwoofers and bass management in general.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5267 of 5360 Old 03-05-2019, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I don't like Audyssey and that's why I have Dirac. But I have a friend running a Marantz 8805 and he said that it sounds great if you set Audyssey filters/EQ for the speakers below 500Hz and turn ON midrange compensation for the center channel. To do that you have to run Audyssey using the Audyssey Editor app.
EQing only below 500 Hz would make the mid range compensation option moot since it affects frequencies above 500 Hz. I do question why MRC is the default target curve, maybe to combat the 'british' sound with a recessed midrange and emphasis on the lows and highs? The target curves also do have a rolled off high frequency above maybe 17 kHz although I can't remember the exact frequency.

I would recommend paying $20 for the smart phone app to be able to have more control over Audyssey. FWIW I am using Audyssey below 500 Hz as others have recommended but to be honest I didn't notice a huge difference between full range (no MRC) and only 500 and below. Since I couldn't tell a difference I figured the less processing the better.

You are going to love the towers. I had, and still have in another setup, Sierra 1s and the Raal towers are a big step up. Even just streaming Spotify or Pandora I'm amazed how good they sound. Are you using a subwoofer?
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post #5268 of 5360 Old 03-06-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I haven't purchased a CD since I got my Bluesound Node 2 two years ago. Between TIDAL HiFi and my music collection stored on my Synology NAS, I don't need CD player anymore. BlueOS is just great as you can make playlists with content combined between TIDAL, stored files, Spotify, etc. The Node 2 sound is just great.

Hi @enricoclaudio and others.

When I listen to music from Tidal HiFi through HEOS, the music is loud at 70 Db/ 90. But when I listen to the same track but played from same Tidal account through Bluesond Node 2i, it does not sound loud at 70db.
What am I missing here? Does playing from Bluesound, by pass the receiver ? and in turn the Audyssey settings ?

-- kris

Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, ? ? | FV18SW black oak grain finish Rev2 with paper cone driver | Marantz SR7012 | ATV 4K
| Epson 2045 cinematic Projector |
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post #5269 of 5360 Old 03-06-2019, 09:57 AM
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Do you have the Node setup with fixed audio (ie, controlled by your AVR)?

If you've connected the Node to your AVR via RCA auxillary input, then it should be bypassing all processing in your receiver.

If your Node is not setup with fixed audio, then chances are the volume on the Node is low while your receiver is at 70 dB.
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post #5270 of 5360 Old 03-06-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post
Do you have the Node setup with fixed audio (ie, controlled by your AVR)?

If you've connected the Node to your AVR via RCA auxillary input, then it should be bypassing all processing in your receiver.

If your Node is not setup with fixed audio, then chances are the volume on the Node is low while your receiver is at 70 dB.

Oh Ok . I connected the Audio outs in Node ( No 5) to the CD Audio inputs of AVR ( No 13 in the picture )


Which port should I connect to at the back of AVR so that I do not by pass the processing in the receiver?
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post #5271 of 5360 Old 03-06-2019, 11:10 AM
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I have the 7010 with the Node 2 and I'm fairy certain mine is connected to CD as well. You actually want it to bypass processing, especially if you're listening to MQA streams (in order to bypass the 7012's DAC and use the BS for decoding the stream - ie, full unfold). I believe just using the analog inputs will bypass processing, though you may want to double check in the Bluesound thread. Been a while since I set it up.

If you want to use the 7010's DAC, then you can use optical to connect the two.

I would look at the player settings in the Bluesound app to see if you set it up with fixed volume.
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post #5272 of 5360 Old 03-12-2019, 07:40 AM
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Question what about the center channel ?

Looking to upgrade my speakers from ELAC Debut 5.2 L/C/R. While the ELACs are great on well-recorded music they can be an issue to my ears on dialog. I'd describe them as clear but harsh and not natural sounding. Since more than half of my listening is TV/movies dialog is important to me. I really like the feedback on the Ascend Sierra 2 speaker and it is presently my leading candidate to replace the L/R. At issue is what to do about the center channel. The Horizon looks too tall and ditto on the Sierra standing vertically. What are my best options ?
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post #5273 of 5360 Old 03-12-2019, 07:54 AM
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Looking to upgrade my speakers from ELAC Debut 5.2 L/C/R. While the ELACs are great on well-recorded music they can be an issue to my ears on dialog. I'd describe them as clear but harsh and not natural sounding. Since more than half of my listening is TV/movies dialog is important to me. I really like the feedback on the Ascend Sierra 2 speaker and it is presently my leading candidate to replace the L/R. At issue is what to do about the center channel. The Horizon looks too tall and ditto on the Sierra standing vertically. What are my best options ?

The S2’s Raal can be rotated and sat horizontally. There is also a Sierra Luna MTM that is coming out (or is already out).

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5274 of 5360 Old 03-12-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
The S2’s Raal can be rotated and sat horizontally. There is also a Sierra Luna MTM that is coming out (or is already out).
You would specify the Sierra-2 for center channel use when ordering. The RAAL will already be rotated in the correct orientation. Also, it will have a full length grille that covers the entire baffle vs the standard grille.
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post #5275 of 5360 Old 03-12-2019, 08:53 AM
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You would specify the Sierra-2 for center channel use when ordering. The RAAL will already be rotated in the correct orientation. Also, it will have a full length grille that covers the entire baffle vs the standard grille.

Sorry I meant to say that lol.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5276 of 5360 Old 03-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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RAAL Tweeter - Why so low?

Question about the RAAL towers. First thing I noticed is the tweeters are physically lower than your average speaker. In fact, 3-5 inches lower than the other towers I've owned. This puts the tweeters below my ears. Obviously this was done one purpose. I'm curious why the RAALs are so low and if its recommended to tilt them slightly up or put them on a 3-4 inch tower stand?

Feedback appreciated! Thanks.

-Brian

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post #5277 of 5360 Old 03-16-2019, 10:04 PM
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Hello, thought I'd join this thread.

No matter what I look at, I end up coming back around to Sierra Towers with the RAAL tweeter.

I know of a lot of options below and up to their price point, which is fairly unique it seems.

To get a better idea of where they sit in the marketplace of speakers, say you owned these and were looking to upgrade. What do you think is the next step up...enough to be worth the trouble of upgrading?

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post #5278 of 5360 Old 03-16-2019, 10:16 PM
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Hello, thought I'd join this thread.



No matter what I look at, I end up coming back around to Sierra Towers with the RAAL tweeter.



I know of a lot of options below and up to their price point, which is fairly unique it seems.



To get a better idea of where they sit in the marketplace of speakers, say you owned these and were looking to upgrade. What do you think is the next step up...enough to be worth the trouble of upgrading?

That’s a good question. And while I haven’t heard anything on the same level as the Sierra Towers w/ Raal or higher, I can throw a decently educated guess.

And my guess would be something that utilizes a tweeter on the same level as the custom Raal Dave uses in the Sierra Towers. That tweeter would probably have to be either Beryllium or Diamond. Low mass, low distortion, with good dampening.

I would also guess that something with greater bass extension or higher quality bass extension would have to be on the list.

With these two set requirements, that leads me to believe the Revel PerformaBe 228Be would be a quality upgrade, utilizing a Beryllium tweeter and dual 8” woofers, it checks both boxes.

Now the problem is, is it worth the extra $7000? So going back to your first question, No I do not think there is anything out there that will be a big enough upgrade from the Sierra Towers w/ Raal that is worth the hassle (in this case the extra $7000).

I do think however there is something on the same level as the Sierra Towers w/ Raal. And that would be another Raal tower, in the form of the Phil 3’s. However due to Dennis’ latest health concerns, there may not be any chance of anyone obtaining a pair of the Phil 3’s.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5279 of 5360 Old 03-17-2019, 12:15 AM
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That’s a good question. And while I haven’t heard anything on the same level as the Sierra Towers w/ Raal or higher, I can throw a decently educated guess.

And my guess would be something that utilizes a tweeter on the same level as the custom Raal Dave uses in the Sierra Towers. That tweeter would probably have to be either Beryllium or Diamond. Low mass, low distortion, with good dampening.

I would also guess that something with greater bass extension or higher quality bass extension would have to be on the list.

With these two set requirements, that leads me to believe the Revel PerformaBe 228Be would be a quality upgrade, utilizing a Beryllium tweeter and dual 8” woofers, it checks both boxes.

Now the problem is, is it worth the extra $7000? So going back to your first question, No I do not think there is anything out there that will be a big enough upgrade from the Sierra Towers w/ Raal that is worth the hassle (in this case the extra $7000).

I do think however there is something on the same level as the Sierra Towers w/ Raal. And that would be another Raal tower, in the form of the Phil 3’s. However due to Dennis’ latest health concerns, there may not be any chance of anyone obtaining a pair of the Phil 3’s.
That's a big thing to say that you wouldn't bother moving from the Sierra Towers to the PerformaBe 228Be's. It's also a big thing to say that the Sierra Towers are on the same level as the Phil 3's. From their designs, I would have to disagree. But what if you went another direction...and looked at JTR 228HTRs? A 3 way loudspeaker with two 8” woofers in a vented enclosure, with an ultra highend coaxial compression driver mounted on large, wooden horn with a 60 x 60 coverage pattern. I know it's not a RAAL, but these have garnered some praise. The compression driver itself is a 2-way design, and with the horn/waveguide, creates a space and time-aligned frequency response all the way down to the woofers.

I'm not sure anyone in this thread would have experience with these, but they are "step up" in terms of price. If only there were some way to hear these designs side by side.

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post #5280 of 5360 Old 03-17-2019, 12:26 AM
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That's a big thing to say that you wouldn't bother moving from the Sierra Towers to the PerformaBe 228Be's. It's also a big thing to say that the Sierra Towers are on the same level as the Phil 3's. From their designs, I would have to disagree. But what if you went another direction...and looked at JTR 228HTRs? A 3 way loudspeaker with two 8” woofers in a vented enclosure, with an ultra highend coaxial compression driver mounted on large, wooden horn with a 60 x 60 coverage pattern. I know it's not a RAAL, but these have garnered some praise. The compression driver itself is a 2-way design, and with the horn/waveguide, creates a space and time-aligned frequency response all the way down to the woofers.



I'm not sure anyone in this thread would have experience with these, but they are "step up" in terms of price. If only there were some way to hear these designs side by side.

Well regarding the PerformaBe’s, I said they aren’t worth the 3x the price IMO because the sonic improvement will not be 3x.

I’ll take back what I said regarding the Phil 3’s though. However I will guess they would be close, more similar than not. But I would probably give the edge to the Phil’s.

Interesting idea on the JTR’s. But at that point you are comparing apples to oranges. And with that I can’t help you I do know a thread that will though!

Scratch that can’t find it. But it compared high efficiency (JTR, PSA, etc) vs High Detail (Raal, Beryllium, etc)

Good luck

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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