The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 532 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15931 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
^ Wait, did you just call them "overpriced"?
Of course I was crucified for saying that at one time. My how times change when it's convenient to do so.
Ah, I found that exchange. I admitted they were overpriced in my first reply to you back then, maybe you need to reread it . The "crucifixition"(a bit dramatic, no?) had nothing to do with that. It had to do with your holier-than-thou judgement about how someone else spends their hard earned money.
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post #15932 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

The whole professional/upper end market is overpriced. But that's the nature of the upper tier of nearly any market. Prices don't remain linear as perceived quality increases. It is what it is.
I'll go along with that.
I've auditioned hundreds of speakers over the decades.
And the last 12 years, many high end/high priced ones.

Everest II, Revel Salon2, B&W 802, Thiel, etc.
And I never thought any of them were really worth their prices.
And with the exception of the Salon2, Everest II, none of them I would take over my Custom212s.
And I would only want the Everest, if I had a large enough room.
If you ever auditioned what is available at Magnolia HT, none of their high priced speakers are as good as the JBL PT800, imo. The Revel Gem2 [email protected] >3X the price of the PT800 ($1500 list) could not be considered a bargain either.
And for stereo, the PT800 is not as good as my 212s.
The soundstage of these 212s is nothing short of amazing.
I wish the original L212s I bought in '79 had been as good.
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post #15933 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by cshuff View Post
Hi all,

I was going to do an all JTR theater but have changed gears and gonna do JBL speakers with JTR subs. Gonna get some JTR 210 RTs for lounge room.

Anyhow, I've ordered 3 4722N's for LCR, they are on the way. For side surrounds I'm going to go with JBL 8320's.

For rear surrounds, I'm thinking 2 more 8320's or possible JBL SCS 8's.

For Atmos, considering JBL Control 226 C/T. Was going to do the Control 328C but the cans won't fit between the joists and I want in-ceiling speakers because I will have a Night Sky mural painted on the ceiling and do not want on-ceiling speakers.

My questions are:
1. Do you think the Control 226 C/T will be OK for Atmos duty?
2. And...would you go 8320's for the rear surrounds to match the sides or does it not really matter (OK to go with SCS 8's)

Appreciate any input/thoughts,
Chad
You may want to look at @ChopShop1 's build thread in the dedicated theater forum (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...med-later.html). He is going with a professional designer and as I recall will be using 8320's for surrounds and ATMOS based on conversations with engineers at JBL (who should be the best resource and actually recommended less expensive speakers than what he was considering). Seems the dome tweeter on the 8320's make them well suited for home theater.

Which ever way you go this system will be pretty freakin high performance. The JTR 210's in the Lounger Room will pretty sweet!

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Last edited by NWCgrad; 05-19-2015 at 07:26 AM.
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post #15934 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:30 AM
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M2's based on MRSP are $5K for the speaker and $5K for the required DSP enabled amp that make them work (crossover and assorted goodies). Not as crazy when looked at in that light. Those Crown Amos they use are pretty darn pricey, but they are touring models so it is to be expected (the amps not the speakers as to being touring models).
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post #15935 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 08:18 AM
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Order has been placed and now the waiting game begins.
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post #15936 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Ah, I found that exchange. I admitted they were overpriced in my first reply to you back then, maybe you need to reread it . The "crucifixition"(a bit dramatic, no?) had nothing to do with that. It had to do with your holier-than-thou judgement about how someone else spends their hard earned money.
Wow, hypersensitive much?
Can you please find the quote where I told you or anyone else how to spend their money?
This should be interesting since I don't recall ever doing any such thing.
Perhaps it is you who needs to reread the original posts.
Oh, and how did religion somehow get infused into this scenario??? Yikes!

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post #15937 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 10:57 AM
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I'm interested in talking about audio on this thread. If we had a disagreement let's agree to drop it.

Talking about speakers is more fun.
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post #15938 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
M2's based on MRSP are $5K for the speaker and $5K for the required DSP enabled amp that make them work (crossover and assorted goodies). Not as crazy when looked at in that light. Those Crown Amos they use are pretty darn pricey, but they are touring models so it is to be expected (the amps not the speakers as to being touring models).
As for the DSP being needed, I think that is how the latest version of the Everest is.
Greg Timbers replace the passive Charged-Coupled Networks® (biased XOs)used on all Everest, K2 models since the early '90s, with DSP.
Which for the Everest is Mark Levinson.

As Greg does not like to stand pat...I assume the DSP Everest is an improvement over using the C-C Networks.
Although, for myself, I'll stick with the Baised XOs in my 212s...already paid for. lol

At one time I had thoughts of building Biased XOs for the PT800s...two problems occurred, lack of space, cost.
The PT800 boxes are smaller than the 212 boxes, while the caps required for the PT800s were quite a bit larger than needed for the 212s.
I would have needed to build external boxes to house the Biased XOs for each speaker.
And the cost, $300+/pr 212...but over $500/pr PT800.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Samsung BD player, Denon DVD-A player, MacBook Pro w/ Dirac Stereo Suite.

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post #15939 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 11:58 AM
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Wait a second, these M2's are 20K for the pair???
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post #15940 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Wait a second, these M2's are 20K for the pair???
Nope they are $0.02 cheaper at Dale Pro Audio for (2) M2 Master Reference Monitors + (2) Crown iTech 5000's.

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post #15941 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Wait a second, these M2's are 20K for the pair???
That price is not what you paid, when you placed your order?

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Samsung BD player, Denon DVD-A player, MacBook Pro w/ Dirac Stereo Suite.
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post #15942 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:11 PM
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I thought it was 20K each. Damn.
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post #15943 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I thought it was 20K each. Damn.
That is why I questioned the price earlier today.
Online, different sites, I've seen $20K/ea and $20K/pr.
According to Gooddoc, $20K/pr.
And as NW quoted, $5K/ea speaker, $5K/ea DSP amp.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Samsung BD player, Denon DVD-A player, MacBook Pro w/ Dirac Stereo Suite.

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post #15944 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I thought it was 20K each. Damn.
Are you feeling cheated?
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post #15945 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Are you feeling cheated?
I know if it was me, I'd be cancelling the order.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Samsung BD player, Denon DVD-A player, MacBook Pro w/ Dirac Stereo Suite.
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post #15946 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 12:37 PM
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I know if it was me, I'd be cancelling the order.
SeaNile is just joking.
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post #15947 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 03:51 PM
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I'm interested in talking about audio on this thread. If we had a disagreement let's agree to drop it.

Talking about speakers is more fun.
LOL, so you couldn't find that quote then eh?...
It's ok. Not the first time I've been accused of something I never did or said.
Back to the enjoyment of JBL audio. ♪bing♪
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post #15948 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 04:24 PM
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I'll go along with that.
I've auditioned hundreds of speakers over the decades.
And the last 12 years, many high end/high priced ones.

Everest II, Revel Salon2, B&W 802, Thiel, etc.
And I never thought any of them were really worth their prices.
And with the exception of the Salon2, Everest II, none of them I would take over my Custom212s.
And I would only want the Everest, if I had a large enough room.
If you ever auditioned what is available at Magnolia HT, none of their high priced speakers are as good as the JBL PT800, imo. The Revel Gem2 [email protected] >3X the price of the PT800 ($1500 list) could not be considered a bargain either.
And for stereo, the PT800 is not as good as my 212s.
The soundstage of these 212s is nothing short of amazing.
I wish the original L212s I bought in '79 had been as good.
I would really love to get some ear time with your 212's. You anywhere near NJ? .....I forgot, we did this once already. You're nowhere near NJ
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post #15949 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 05:32 PM
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I would really love to get some ear time with your 212's. You anywhere near NJ? .....I forgot, we did this once already. You're nowhere near NJ

LOL...only if you take a long flight directly south...Ecuador.
Feel free to bring your M2s with you!!
At least one person I know from AVS is moving here at the beginning of 2016. He does not have JBLs...but Danish Dali's. And we will be doing comparisons...we both have Parasound gear, though.

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post #15950 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 05:40 PM
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LOL...only if you take a long flight directly south...Ecuador.
Hey, you never know, it's a small world! Anything's possible.....

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Feel free to bring your M2s with you!!
....except that
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post #15951 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 06:53 PM
 
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I am rejoining the JBL family. The last pair of JBLs I owned were the XPL-200s back in the early 90s'. Fantastic, fantastic speakers back in the day. I am pulling the trigger tomorrow on the 4722n for my fronts. I have been looking at the JBL surrounds but I hear the 8340's were harsh and the 8320's were kinda meh. I was thinking about getting the Reaction Audio CX-8 or CX-10 as rear surrounds. Reviews have been great and they use compression driver horn so it should be a good match to the JBLs. Granted they aren't timbre matched but neither are the JBL surrounds. What say you?

Chris
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post #15952 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:33 PM
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Hey, you never know, it's a small world! Anything's possible.....



....except that
But it could be a mini speaker face-off. M2, 212, Dali

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post #15953 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:41 PM
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I am rejoining the JBL family. The last pair of JBLs I owned were the XPL-200s back in the early 90s'. Fantastic, fantastic speakers back in the day. I am pulling the trigger tomorrow on the 4722n for my fronts. I have been looking at the JBL surrounds but I hear the 8340's were harsh and the 8320's were kinda meh. I was thinking about getting the Reaction Audio CX-8 or CX-10 as rear surrounds. Reviews have been great and they use compression driver horn so it should be a good match to the JBLs. Granted they aren't timbre matched but neither are the JBL surrounds. What say you?

Chris
Eh, not sure on that one.

Have you considered the JBL SCS8 or SCS12? I think it has a much better chance of a closer timbre match
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post #15954 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:42 PM
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But it could be a mini speaker face-off. M2, 212, Dali
That would be epic .
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post #15955 of 17565 Old 05-19-2015, 07:49 PM
 
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Eh, not sure on that one.

Have you considered the JBL SCS8 or SCS12? I think it has a much better chance of a closer timbre match
I will give those a look.
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post #15956 of 17565 Old 05-20-2015, 01:04 PM
 
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I am officially part of the JBL family as of today. 4722n's have been ordered along with (4) scs-8 for surrounds. For those looking at JBL, give Eric @ RMC Audio a shout. I have bought most of my drum gear from them over the years and they are great folks. I was able to get the 4722n's for $1150 each including shipping.
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post #15957 of 17565 Old 05-22-2015, 11:48 AM
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Does Passive Bi-Amping Change Impedance Characteristics?

I know there is some serious debate about the benefits of passive bi-amping (and bi-wiring, and active bi-amping). Setting that aside for the moment...

I'm curious how (or if) bi-amping affects speaker impedance. I currently have my Marantz SR7009 "amp assign" in 5.2 bi-amp mode. My front 2-way speakers--JBL Studio 570s--are rated at 6 ohms. When the jumper is removed to drive the speakers separately, is the 6 ohm load maintained? I would assume that the woofer and tweeter have different impedance characteristics, thus possibly changing the load requirements for the amplifier.

My main purpose in bi-amping is to apply a (slight, I know) power increase to the mains on the cheap, but of course impedance loads will affect this as well. I currently have the Marantz set to drive 6 ohm loads, but this may not be accurate for this particular configuration.

I can't find any documentation on this subject. Any thoughts?
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post #15958 of 17565 Old 05-22-2015, 01:50 PM
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I know there is some serious debate about the benefits of passive bi-amping (and bi-wiring, and active bi-amping). Setting that aside for the moment...

I'm curious how (or if) bi-amping affects speaker impedance. I currently have my Marantz SR7009 "amp assign" in 5.2 bi-amp mode. My front 2-way speakers--JBL Studio 570s--are rated at 6 ohms. When the jumper is removed to drive the speakers separately, is the 6 ohm load maintained? I would assume that the woofer and tweeter have different impedance characteristics, thus possibly changing the load requirements for the amplifier.

My main purpose in bi-amping is to apply a (slight, I know) power increase to the mains on the cheap, but of course impedance loads will affect this as well. I currently have the Marantz set to drive 6 ohm loads, but this may not be accurate for this particular configuration.

I can't find any documentation on this subject. Any thoughts?
This discussion raises as many questions as it answers. The potential for an increase in actual power delivered to the speaker is small, since you're using multiple channels from the same AVR - and AVR WPC decreases when you add channels. So for example, in 2-ch stereo mode you might get as much power to the speaker using 2 channels as you do using 4.

The speaker should present the same load to the amp whichever way its wired. I'd also point out that with many AVRs, setting them to 6u or 4u may actually decrease the available power. In any case, ohm ratings for speakers are not what they seem, and its often best to just ignore that. A decent amp won't care.

Bottom line has to be that you should use whatever setup you think sounds best. Just be aware that when driving 5 channels with an AVR, adding 2 more channels for the bi-amp feature may be counter-productive. For stereo listening though, odds of reaping benefits increase.
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post #15959 of 17565 Old 05-22-2015, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by csnow View Post
I am officially part of the JBL family as of today. 4722n's have been ordered along with (4) scs-8 for surrounds. For those looking at JBL, give Eric @ RMC Audio a shout. I have bought most of my drum gear from them over the years and they are great folks. I was able to get the 4722n's for $1150 each including shipping.
You gave them more than a look . Nice choice.
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post #15960 of 17565 Old 05-22-2015, 04:11 PM
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This discussion raises as many questions as it answers. The potential for an increase in actual power delivered to the speaker is small, since you're using multiple channels from the same AVR - and AVR WPC decreases when you add channels. So for example, in 2-ch stereo mode you might get as much power to the speaker using 2 channels as you do using 4.

The speaker should present the same load to the amp whichever way its wired. I'd also point out that with many AVRs, setting them to 6u or 4u may actually decrease the available power. In any case, ohm ratings for speakers are not what they seem, and its often best to just ignore that. A decent amp won't care.

Bottom line has to be that you should use whatever setup you think sounds best. Just be aware that when driving 5 channels with an AVR, adding 2 more channels for the bi-amp feature may be counter-productive. For stereo listening though, odds of reaping benefits increase.
@rdgrimes : Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Good advice on all fronts, and consistent with feedback from other forums. I will follow your advice and revert to a non bi-amped configuration with 8u settings. Eventually I'll be listening to 5.2.2 (Atmos), not just 2.2 as I am currently, and your configuration makes more sense. I just got sucked in by that extra feature Marantz offers, and all those extra binding posts!
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