Martin Logan Owners Thread - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 2403 Old 11-01-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
I wanted to get the 50XT center and 2 35XT's for my front soundstage but it looks like the new XT speakers are junkers. What should I get then, 2 Motion 40s and a C2 for the front?

I can honestly say the new XT line is a large improvement over last generation. I have owned every motion speaker other than the 2's. I kept the 40s for the rears while having the 60's in the front and 50 for the center. The new line shows a large improvement in the overall bass and midrange. They have incredible staging in 2 channel and a very wide stage for movies. Everything I have read agrees with my assessment. Not sure where you are getting the assumption that they are junkers....
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post #1052 of 2403 Old 11-04-2014, 01:17 PM
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I can honestly say the new XT line is a large improvement over last generation. I have owned every motion speaker other than the 2's. I kept the 40s for the rears while having the 60's in the front and 50 for the center. The new line shows a large improvement in the overall bass and midrange. They have incredible staging in 2 channel and a very wide stage for movies. Everything I have read agrees with my assessment. Not sure where you are getting the assumption that they are junkers....
The XT's sounded excellent at Cedia. That said, I don't plan on replacing my Motion 40's with XT's as my theater isn't big enough to need larger L / R front tower speakers. The 40's are more than adequate in my room.
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post #1053 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 08:52 AM
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What gauge wires are you guys running with the Motion 40's? My current setup consists of a Pioneer Elite SC-71 and the Motion 40's will be bi-amped.

Martin Logan specifically states the following:

"Use the best speaker cables you can. The length and type of speaker cable used in your system will have an audible effect. Under no circumstance should a wire of gauge higher (thinner) than #16 be used. In general, the longer the length used, the greater the necessity of a lower gauge, and the lower the gauge, the better the sound, with diminishing returns setting in around #8 to #12.

A variety of cables are available whose manufacturers claim better performance than standard heavy gauge wire. We have verified this in many cases, and the improvements available are often more noticeable than the differences between wires of different gauge. The effects of cables may be masked if equipment is not of the highest quality.
"

So I guess I'm a bit confused as to what's best for me? The max length will be around 5-6 feet as the speakers will not be far away from the receiver at all so 5-6 feet should be all I need. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated!

TV: Panasonic Viera VT50 55 | A/V Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-71 | Speakers: Martin Logan Motion 40's (Bi-Amped) | Cables: AudioQuest Cinnamon HDMI Cables + AudioQuest Rocket 33's (split)
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post #1054 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TL24 View Post
What gauge wires are you guys running with the Motion 40's? My current setup consists of a Pioneer Elite SC-71 and the Motion 40's will be bi-amped.

Martin Logan specifically states the following:

"Use the best speaker cables you can. The length and type of speaker cable used in your system will have an audible effect. Under no circumstance should a wire of gauge higher (thinner) than #16 be used. In general, the longer the length used, the greater the necessity of a lower gauge, and the lower the gauge, the better the sound, with diminishing returns setting in around #8 to #12.

A variety of cables are available whose manufacturers claim better performance than standard heavy gauge wire. We have verified this in many cases, and the improvements available are often more noticeable than the differences between wires of different gauge. The effects of cables may be masked if equipment is not of the highest quality.
"

So I guess I'm a bit confused as to what's best for me? The max length will be around 5-6 feet as the speakers will not be far away from the receiver at all so 5-6 feet should be all I need. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated!
Don't waste your money, they all sound the same. Check this chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire#Wire_gauge

I run 12 gauge but it's cause I have electrostats which go below 1 ohm. I've used Blue Jeans Cable and recently got these:

http://sewelldirect.com/Silverback-S...Terminated.asp
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post #1055 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
Don't waste your money, they all sound the same. Check this chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire#Wire_gauge

I run 12 gauge but it's cause I have electrostats which go below 1 ohm. I've used Blue Jeans Cable and recently got these:

http://sewelldirect.com/Silverback-S...Terminated.asp
i have a question on wires...

i have montis and went with straight wire that has 4 strands of 18 gauge OFC bound together what would that be equivalent to ? is that enough?
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post #1056 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Larryfl View Post
i have a question on wires...

i have montis and went with straight wire that has 4 strands of 18 gauge OFC bound together what would that be equivalent to ? is that enough?
Not sure, maybe 12?

http://home.hiwaay.net/~rgs/awgcalculator.html

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post #1057 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 09:48 AM
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I didn't think the XT line was any good because no one talks about them. I was thinking of getting 2 35XT and a 50XT for my front soundstage. I heard bookshelves are no good for home theater and can't play very loud though, is this true?
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post #1058 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
... I run 12 gauge but it's cause I have electrostats which go below 1 ohm.
Sub, how long are those runs?

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post #1059 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 12:56 PM
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Sub, how long are those runs?
Six to 10 feet. I actually had some 8 gauge but they were too bulky and overkill for that length. For my Atmos speakers, I ran 12 gauge too. Longest runs were probably 30-40 feet.

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post #1060 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
I didn't think the XT line was any good because no one talks about them. I was thinking of getting 2 35XT and a 50XT for my front soundstage. I heard bookshelves are no good for home theater and can't play very loud though, is this true?
I don't understand your logic on the lack of people talking about a speaker meaning a speaker is bad. They are so new that not many people have them yet. The local Magnolia does not even have the demo speakers yet. There are no reviews because they are so new. As far as the bookshelf speakers....you can use them in a HT but it depends what you want to get out of them.....You can play them loud as long as the crossover is set correctly in your AVR.
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post #1061 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 04:09 PM
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I don't understand your logic on the lack of people talking about a speaker meaning a speaker is bad. They are so new that not many people have them yet. The local Magnolia does not even have the demo speakers yet. There are no reviews because they are so new. As far as the bookshelf speakers....you can use them in a HT but it depends what you want to get out of them.....You can play them loud as long as the crossover is set correctly in your AVR.
I cross all my speakers at 80hz and let my SB13 Ultra do the low bass.
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post #1062 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
The XT's sounded excellent at Cedia. That said, I don't plan on replacing my Motion 40's with XT's as my theater isn't big enough to need larger L / R front tower speakers. The 40's are more than adequate in my room.
What would be your opinion on Martin Logan's Motion C center. I currently have a 5.1 setup with a pair of ML Motion 15's up front with a Motion C center, and 2 Motion 4's in the rear. Sub is a ML Dynamo. Speakers are being driven by a Yamaha RX-A2000. Do you think their would be a noticeable difference switching to a Motion 30 or even the new Motion 50 XT center?

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post #1063 of 2403 Old 11-05-2014, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
Six to 10 feet. I actually had some 8 gauge but they were too bulky and overkill for that length. For my Atmos speakers, I ran 12 gauge too. Longest runs were probably 30-40 feet.
I hear ya. The 8's are crazy bulky. Kinda like pipe that bends a little bit. But the 10's are a piece of work too. I ran long 10's for stats last year, with wall drops. It was the right thing to do, but zero fun. It gets much easier to work with starting at 12. ✌️

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post #1064 of 2403 Old 11-06-2014, 10:59 AM
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i have a question on wires...

i have montis and went with straight wire that has 4 strands of 18 gauge OFC bound together what would that be equivalent to ? is that enough?
I ran a paid of Montis for about a year with 14 gauge wire, about 6 ft runs to each without any trouble. When asking questions about speaker wire typically you will get 2 answers:

1. Quality of the wire makes a very noticeable and tangible improvement to sound so buy as heavy and high quality as you can find/afford

2. Quality of the wire makes no difference at all so buy as inexpensive correct gauge speaker wire you can find.

I am in camp #2 . Here's what I would buy: http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

probably the 12 awg, CL2 rated if you are going in-wall.
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post #1065 of 2403 Old 11-06-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
Don't waste your money, they all sound the same. Check this chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire#Wire_gauge

I run 12 gauge but it's cause I have electrostats which go below 1 ohm. I've used Blue Jeans Cable and recently got these:

http://sewelldirect.com/Silverback-S...Terminated.asp
I use the same cable, its great for the price, just need a 25 footer for my rears.

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post #1066 of 2403 Old 11-06-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Larryfl View Post
i have a question on wires...

i have montis and went with straight wire that has 4 strands of 18 gauge OFC bound together what would that be equivalent to ? is that enough?
A hair smaller than a single 12 AWG wire.

Yes.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1067 of 2403 Old 11-13-2014, 03:18 AM
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post #1068 of 2403 Old 11-13-2014, 04:23 AM
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The NEOLITH is coming.
Booyah !!!

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That just looks like something I would never be able to afford
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post #1070 of 2403 Old 11-13-2014, 08:38 AM
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Panel replacements used to be reasonably priced, but then ML said they weren't going to do them anymore, then they relented but increased the price 3x effectively not doing them anymore.
Not disagreeing but the difference is once upon a time you could buy new old stock replacement panels. Now that those are sold out you have to pay for them to make you new panels which understandably doesn't make it any cheaper. On the plus side their new panels are made better than the originals. Still, it makes considering used ML's a little harder.
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post #1071 of 2403 Old 11-13-2014, 12:55 PM
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Not disagreeing but the difference is once upon a time you could buy new old stock replacement panels. Now that those are sold out you have to pay for them to make you new panels which understandably doesn't make it any cheaper. On the plus side their new panels are made better than the originals. Still, it makes considering used ML's a little harder.

The ML dealer where I listened to Theos said the panels should never go bad!!!! So this is not true? Are these going bad over time or are they being damaged from clipping/overpowering etc?????

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post #1072 of 2403 Old 11-14-2014, 12:50 AM
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The ML dealer where I listened to Theos said the panels should never go bad!!!! So this is not true? Are these going bad over time or are they being damaged from clipping/overpowering etc?????
Mine are 16 years old and work fine.

I'll be back later...


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post #1073 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 06:17 AM
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The ML dealer where I listened to Theos said the panels should never go bad!!!! So this is not true? Are these going bad over time or are they being damaged from clipping/overpowering etc?????
Not an ML owner any more, but your dealer is wrong. They do degrade and wear out over time. That being said, they are much more robust than they used to be. The amount of direct sunlight, heat, humidity, how much dust they accumulate, all those things will factor into how long the panels last. That being said, we are talking well over 10 years of usable life, just maybe not the 30 years certain cone speakers will give you.
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post #1074 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 07:30 AM
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And don't forget that cone speakers are also sensitive to their environment. Some may last thirty years, many may not, depends upon their environment. Few speakers stand up well to sunlight, smoke, heavy dust, high humidity, etc. Nothing lasts forever.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1075 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 08:29 AM
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That just looks like something I would never be able to afford
You really need a person standing next to them to really understand the size of those things.
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post #1076 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 10:10 AM
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The ML dealer where I listened to Theos said the panels should never go bad!!!! So this is not true? Are these going bad over time or are they being damaged from clipping/overpowering etc?????
I do not knowwhy you are asking me? Mine were damaged is shipping. I wish I never purchased them.
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post #1077 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 10:22 AM
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You really need a person standing next to them to really understand the size of those things.





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post #1078 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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Take it again, Craig, but stand on the table with it or put it on the ground first! BTW, how tall are you?

I haven't seen a spec sheet yet, just the press release saying 22" x 48" ESL panel, 12" front-firing and 15" rear-firing woofers. Claimed response down to 23 Hz. So yeah, it's big. Entering SoundLabs territory...

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post #1079 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 04:30 PM
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Take it again, Craig, but stand on the table with it or put it on the ground first! BTW, how tall are you?

I haven't seen a spec sheet yet, just the press release saying 22" x 48" ESL panel, 12" front-firing and 15" rear-firing woofers. Claimed response down to 23 Hz. So yeah, it's big. Entering SoundLabs territory...

That's Mike at CEDIA in Sept. - Mike isn't short by any means.
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post #1080 of 2403 Old 11-17-2014, 08:29 PM
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Sorry, I've never been good with names...

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