Martin Logan Owners Thread - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 2395 Old 12-11-2014, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post
You better make sure those panels are ok. Do some research on panel replacement and if ML will even still service those. Its a big gamble. Bad panel and you will likely pay more than the price of the speaker to get them fixed. .
ML will sell you replacement panels for any model they've made but the cost of replacement panels has increased dramatically over the last few years. Expect to pay well over $1,000 for new panels. That being said, if they were in a dedicated theater that means they probably were in a pretty well climate controlled environment and probably without any type of direct sun-light. If you can really carefully inspect them for any flaws, the panels may be in fine shape.
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post #1112 of 2395 Old 12-11-2014, 07:59 AM
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They were in a 3rd floor theater kept around 72 degrees. No sunlight whatsoever. No windows, and these were hidden behind a cloth cover in a niche.

I spoke to ML service yesterday. The panels are available at around $1400 shipped. Apparently they also have an updated driver for this model. The tech stated the panels have about a 15yr shelf life whether in use or not.

So to get back to the question, I'm just getting back into the hobby and wanted to start off with something nice. If I can get him down around $500 with the intent to replace panels at some point in the future, would they be worth it? Or should I just go for a newer model with smaller drivers?
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post #1113 of 2395 Old 12-11-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by justinlw View Post
Question for the owners, if you have a moment. I have a chance to buy a set of SL3 towers to be connected to my Krell KAV-300r integrated receiver. Obviously the SL3's are a little aged at 19 years old. The seller is asking $1000, I'm trying to get him to come off the price at the moment. I know the seller well, and do a lot of his work. We pulled the speakers from his theater which is rarely used (at best). He did however keep the speakers powered even when not in use.

My question:

Should I be interested in these speakers, or will money be better spent on a newer set of ESL's a slightly higher price point used? I like the idea of the larger driver in the SL3, but I'm concerned with the age.
IMHO, I would keep on looking. Maybe for $500 but not 1K. I picked up my EM-ESL for $999 for the pair as demos. I see Source's all the time for 1K and Vistas for $1400-1500. Be patient and you can do MUCH better.
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post #1114 of 2395 Old 12-11-2014, 09:43 AM
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Just one more question, is the Krell Kav-300r a good candidate to push electrostats? It's a solid state Class AB amplifier with 300w per channel into 4 ohms.
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post #1115 of 2395 Old 12-11-2014, 05:41 PM
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Should be fine. Krell was noted for being able to drive low-Z loads.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1116 of 2395 Old 12-12-2014, 08:15 AM
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I'm on the lookout for another set now, pretty sure I offended the guy with my offer of $500 as he hasn't responded. I've been in love with the ML brand ever since I installed a pair on a customer's Mcintosh gear a few years back.

Thank you all for your quick advice.
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post #1117 of 2395 Old 12-13-2014, 12:47 PM
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Hello AVS Forum Members. I am a newly registered member, but longtime ML fan. I am having to part with my proudest purchase to date. I have a pair of Martin Logan Ethos, in mint condition. These speakers were purchased from an Audio Advice location, and immediately returned because the buyer actually had his heart set on a different wood finished Montis set. These amazing speakers are less than 2 years old and have the Dark Cherry wood finish. They were purchased from the same location by myself, unwrapped, played for about 20 listening hours, and re-packed in their original boxes, due to my having to leave the country for an extended period of time. I am back in the states and they still remain in a climate controlled storage unit. I also have the ESL, which I will keep, do to my downsizing in living space. I have all packaging material. Will sell for $4000 with buyer arranging for shipping pickup. I am located in North Carolina. Thanks for your time.
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post #1118 of 2395 Old 12-13-2014, 12:59 PM
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Hello AVS Forum members. I am a longtime ML fan who is having to part ways with his proudest ML purchase to date (which I hope the next will be the Montis, once I re-locate!) which is one pair of Martin Logan Ethos, in mint condition. These speakers were purchased from a Audio Advice location, and immediately returned because the buyer actually had his heart set on a different wood finished Montis Series. These amazing speakers are less than 2 years old and have the Dark Cherry wood finish. They were purchased from the same location by myself, unwrapped, played for about 20 listening hours, and re-packed in their original boxes, due to my having to leave the country for an extended period of time. I will sell them for $4200 with shipping being paid by the buyer. If anyone is serious about these, feel free to contact me. Again, when you see these you will think "practically Brand New". Thanks!
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post #1119 of 2395 Old 12-13-2014, 01:11 PM
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sorry for the double post members. If any moderator could please delete the latter post. Thanks
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post #1120 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 08:28 PM
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FYI,

I auditioned the Montis and really liked them. I don't know if it was the room or something else... but I noticed in some instances that sound was coming from front ceiling... Maybe that's what they call 3D ?

I was trying to figure out if this was normal... or possibly due to reflections... Is this normal ? I mean it was a good thing... but I don't know if I have them in my place... I will get same feeling.

Also... Since these are di-pole speakers.... would you put acoustic panels behind speakers ?

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post #1121 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by spike9876 View Post
FYI,

I auditioned the Montis and really liked them. I don't know if it was the room or something else... but I noticed in some instances that sound was coming from front ceiling... Maybe that's what they call 3D ?

I was trying to figure out if this was normal... or possibly due to reflections... Is this normal ? I mean it was a good thing... but I don't know if I have them in my place... I will get same feeling.

Also... Since these are di-pole speakers.... would you put acoustic panels behind speakers ?
I have the same effect in my house. I love it, feels like the whole wall is projecting sound. I mostly use it for movies and video games though. I believe for music you want them 5 feet from the wall with acoustic panels in back so you don't hear the reflected sounds which kill imaging.

Samsung 85" 4K, Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 with MartinLogan Theos, Stage, Motion 15, EM-R, Seaton Submersive F2, Denon AVR-X5200W
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post #1122 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
I have the same effect in my house. I love it, feels like the whole wall is projecting sound. I mostly use it for movies and video games though. I believe for music you want them 5 feet from the wall with acoustic panels in back so you don't hear the reflected sounds which kill imaging.
My main usage would actually be for movies.... How do you find them for movies ?

I would plan on upgrading fronts L+C+R.... But surrounds I would have regular book shelf... Is this OK ? What do you have for surrounds ?

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post #1123 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by spike9876 View Post
My main usage would actually be for movies.... How do you find them for movies ?

I would plan on upgrading fronts L+C+R.... But surrounds I would have regular book shelf... Is this OK ? What do you have for surrounds ?
I bought them specifically for movies and home theater. I know most people get them for music. They are great for music too of course. But I found a bigger difference over my B&W CM9's for home theater, all the special effects sounded much clearer and crisper.

My setup is in my signature. Got a Stage for half off, Motion 15's for side surrounds and EM-R's for overheads to complete the Atmos setup.
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post #1124 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 09:30 PM
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I bought them specifically for movies and home theater. I know most people get them for music. They are great for music too of course. But I found a bigger difference over my B&W CM9's for home theater, all the special effects sounded much clearer and crisper.

My setup is in my signature. Got a Stage for half off, Motion 15's for side surrounds and EM-R's for overheads to complete the Atmos setup.
I prefer not to change my surrounds... do you think I can get away with CM1's for surrounds ?

Fronts: Sanders Sound M10d, Sanders Magtech Amp. Surround: B&W CM1, 2x JL Audio F112, Integra DHC-80.3, Emotiva XPA-5, OPPO 93 & HTPC
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post #1125 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 09:36 PM
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I prefer not to change my surrounds... do you think I can get away with CM1's for surrounds ?
I'm sure it will still around great. Just a few months ago I was using my CM9's as surrounds with my Martin Logans and it sounded excellent.

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post #1126 of 2395 Old 12-22-2014, 10:22 PM
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Martin Logan ESL's sound incredible for home theater. Don't even think twice about it.
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post #1127 of 2395 Old 12-23-2014, 07:20 AM
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What is the consensus regarding buying from non-authorized dealers ?

Fronts: Sanders Sound M10d, Sanders Magtech Amp. Surround: B&W CM1, 2x JL Audio F112, Integra DHC-80.3, Emotiva XPA-5, OPPO 93 & HTPC
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post #1128 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 02:09 PM
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I thought about doing that,but didn't want problems. So I bought mine at Best buy. Registered for the warranty on Martin Logan's website. I did however at one point buy a EM C2 center off a seller on Ebay. It was new,got it cheap and no problems. I almost pulled the trigger on some gloss black Electromotion ESL's from her,but decided I didn't want to deal with shipping and wanted the warranty,just in case. Never regretted my decision.
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post #1129 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 02:44 PM
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What is the consensus regarding buying from non-authorized dealers ?
I'd probably do it for ML's that were maybe $3k or less in price if the discount was big enough (25%+). But not for $10k speakers.

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post #1130 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
I'd probably do it for ML's that were maybe $3k or less in price if the discount was big enough (25%+). But not for $10k speakers.
OK... BTW, since ML are dipoles... is better to use acoustic panels, diffusers for front wall (behind ML) ?

Fronts: Sanders Sound M10d, Sanders Magtech Amp. Surround: B&W CM1, 2x JL Audio F112, Integra DHC-80.3, Emotiva XPA-5, OPPO 93 & HTPC
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post #1131 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 03:45 PM
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What is the consensus regarding buying from non-authorized dealers ?

Try us at AV Science - we are authorized dealers. Give us a shot - you have nothing to lose but a couple of minutes of time.

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post #1132 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 03:49 PM
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Craig,sorry,its too much work.. :P Also to Spikes question. It varies from person to person I think. I've heard to dampen the rear walls,then I heard not to because they are designed for the rear wall to work with the speakers. I don't know what to think either. I have nothing but the wall behind the speakers at my place.. Sounds great!
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post #1133 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 04:11 PM
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OK... BTW, since ML are dipoles... is better to use acoustic panels, diffusers for front wall (behind ML) ?
I believe for maximum performance you want the panels to be 5+ feet from the wall and dampening behind them. Of course, most people like myself don't do this and they still sound great.

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post #1134 of 2395 Old 12-26-2014, 04:39 PM
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Craig,sorry,its too much work.. :P Also to Spikes question. It varies from person to person I think. I've heard to dampen the rear walls,then I heard not to because they are designed for the rear wall to work with the speakers. I don't know what to think either. I have nothing but the wall behind the speakers at my place.. Sounds great!
OK... Thanks !!

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post #1135 of 2395 Old 12-27-2014, 10:16 AM
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The reason for the distance and/or damping of the rear wall is to prevent cancellations. The sound reverses polarity as it bounces off the wall, and then combines with the front wave to create signal cancellations at various frequencies related to the distance from the wall and the speed of sound. Moving the speakers further away puts the cancellations lower in frequency but they will still be there. But, a lot of folk like the added reflected sound since the speakers rarely fire straight back into a wall, so some of that rear energy gets reflected around the room. Provides a "larger" soundstage though probably not true to the source and smears the image. Pros and cons...

Absorption or diffusion behind the speakers will work. Absorption is usually cheaper and works over a broader frequency range than common diffusors. I prefer diffusion but have all absorption in my room now (disclaimer: I own Magnepans, not ESLs, though the principles are the same). Damping the back wave provides a much more precise image, no (or much less) comb filtering, and allows you to place the speakers closer to the wall behind. The main con is the loss of added reflections from the room, something I personally do not care about but some (many?) may miss. Diffusion offers many of the same benefits but retains some of the reflected energy for a more spacious sound (albeit with less precise/more smeared imaging).

Anybody setting up dipoles for the first, or twentieth, time should be prepared to spend some time tweaking their positioning for the very best sound. Damping the wall behind can significantly shorten that time but it is still very important.

IME/IMO - Don
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post #1136 of 2395 Old 12-29-2014, 11:40 AM
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Don,I agree with what you said. But at the same time,the one thing that made me keep the ESL's over other speaker choices was the fact the whole back wall lights up with sound. Its just an incredible experience. I hear no smearing at all. I can pin point the singer,instruments in space. It sounds like the band is playing right in front of you. I'm gonna try to dampen the back wall to see how the effect changes,but I doubt I'll like it as much.
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post #1137 of 2395 Old 12-30-2014, 11:52 AM
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We could debate pros and cons, but the physics are pretty clear, and it is pretty easy to hear if you listen for it. That said, if you like what you have, why dampen it? It is a preference and it sounds like you have a good set-up now? I have had both live and dead rooms and liked the sound in both. If you can get the speakers far enough away from the back wall cancellations have minimal impact and you are rewarded with a nice blend of direct and reflected sound. Frankly, I prefer that, even if it is less accurate, but my current room is a bit too small and has poor dimensions (doubled-up room modes) so I elected to kill the reflections. I also have done some studio work so am perhaps less sensitive to a dead room than many audiophiles. All ambience comes from the recording.

Near-field listening is another way, though with dipoles you still have to have sufficient distance and/or sufficient damping of the back wall to kill the comb filter effects. That is what usually drives me nuts (a short drive ). It not only warps the frequency response but causes image shifting/smearing. I don't like it when the instrument or singer in front of me moves around as it (s/he) goes up and down the scale. In my current setup (very dead room) that does not happen, but again in the bigger rooms I have had in the past it didn't happen either, and with much less damping.

If you like your sound, keep your sound! Upgraditis and changitis and two of the deepest rabbit holes in audio... - Don

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post #1138 of 2395 Old 12-31-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hello AVS Forum members. I am a longtime ML fan who is having to part ways with his proudest ML purchase to date (which I hope the next will be the Montis, once I re-locate!) which is one pair of Martin Logan Ethos, in mint condition. These speakers were purchased from a Audio Advice location, and immediately returned because the buyer actually had his heart set on a different wood finished Montis Series. These amazing speakers are less than 2 years old and have the Dark Cherry wood finish. They were purchased from the same location by myself, unwrapped, played for about 20 listening hours, and re-packed in their original boxes, due to my having to leave the country for an extended period of time. I will sell them for $4200 with shipping being paid by the buyer. If anyone is serious about these, feel free to contact me. Again, when you see these you will think "practically Brand New". Thanks!
I might be interested for 4 grand. The problem is, I cannot drive there, my wife can, but her subcompact car would not hold them, I would have to rent a vechile, and that may be the deal breaker.
I have the older Summits, and an anxious buyer, and while I like the Montis, they also take up more room.
When do you have to do this and where in NC are you; I am in southern Alabama.
Bob

I also have the ElectroMotion ESL and FX2

pm me if still for sale, what I really need is a new computer, but i do not associate them with fun.
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post #1139 of 2395 Old 12-31-2014, 03:41 PM
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Good afternoon gents. Just wanted to come and see if anyone has experience with the Mosaics? I picked up a pair a few months ago for $250. They are in emmaculate condition. I know they aren't quite as awesome as the ELS speakers. But I think the transducers sound amazing. I'm using them as a 2.0 system with a denon avr that was purchased with the speakers. On my pc. I really only use it for music. Plan to get a sub down the road to pick up the low end. But overall I'm very satisfied with them.
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post #1140 of 2395 Old 01-09-2015, 02:17 PM
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Theos owner here. I have owned SL3's, Vista's, Aeon i's and now these black oak Theos. I haven't heard a set of ML's yet that sounded bad :-)

I am thinking of selling mine and go to an Ethos if anyone is interested. $3100 in W KY

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