Martin Logan Owners Thread - Page 39 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1141 of 2403 Old 01-10-2015, 11:49 PM
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Hi
My use name says it all! I had Acoustats (6 foot tall monoliths from 2001 a Space Odyssey) many years ago (Harmon-Kardon "High Current Capacity" preAmp/Amp) and loved the heck out of them. I am flirting with getting the "low end" Martin Logans. Can anyone recommend an A/V receiver that does NOT sound too "bright" with them? I heard them demoed via a mid range Pioneer. My ears and appreciation of audio are limited by my budget. The high end multi-thousand dollar separate pre-Amp/Amps are out of range. I am thinking $2500 for the speakers and tops $1000-1200 for the A/V receiver. I currently have a Paradigm 5 channel surround set up for movies and SACD. I could see keeping that for movies-and using the stereo pair of ML for listening. I tend towards Classical (Rachmaninoff/Beethoven/Mahler, etc. and smaller ensemble vocal/acoustic rather than hard rock.
My ears are unfortunately tilted towards high end-and my finances towards the lower end of high end.
Thanks!
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post #1142 of 2403 Old 01-10-2015, 11:55 PM
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Two best options for smooth ML are NAD and Mcintosh. Since you are limited on budget NAD.
I heard the entry level ML on NAD integrated and it was quite good. It did not have the glare and sparkle you may get with some others.

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post #1143 of 2403 Old 01-11-2015, 01:21 AM
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Any idea, how slim XL compare with B&W FPM 5 or 6s
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post #1144 of 2403 Old 01-11-2015, 04:56 AM
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Thanks! I'll take a look at the NAD...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post
Two best options for smooth ML are NAD and Mcintosh. Since you are limited on budget NAD.
I heard the entry level ML on NAD integrated and it was quite good. It did not have the glare and sparkle you may get with some others.
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post #1145 of 2403 Old 01-11-2015, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exacoustatowner View Post
Hi
My use name says it all! I had Acoustats (6 foot tall monoliths from 2001 a Space Odyssey) many years ago (Harmon-Kardon "High Current Capacity" preAmp/Amp) and loved the heck out of them. I am flirting with getting the "low end" Martin
Thanks!

If it were me I would be looking at Emotiva and Outlaw Audio
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post #1146 of 2403 Old 01-12-2015, 08:03 AM
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I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I am planning to trade my speakers for a pair of the ESL's so I'd like to know what to look out for. He has stated that there is a scratch on one of the speakers but hasn't mentioned where or how big. I will audition them first before making the trade of course but any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

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post #1147 of 2403 Old 01-12-2015, 12:40 PM
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Take a flashlight and inspect each panel closely for any rips or tears. Listen closely for any "buzzing" sound from the panels that might indicate a tear that you didn't see. Listen for any low-frequency (60 or 120 Hz in the USA, 50 or 100 Hz in Europe, and multiples of each) humming that might indicate power supply capacitors are going bad. Make sure the woofers are working if it is a hybrid system (most ML's, and many other, ESL's are hybrids with ESL upper panels and conventional woofer).

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post #1148 of 2403 Old 01-12-2015, 03:29 PM
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If they are the electromotion ESL's, you have to plug them in to get power. Look for the little blue power light on the back of the speaker also,that will tell you they are getting power. Do you get to listen to them 1st?
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post #1149 of 2403 Old 01-12-2015, 03:59 PM
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I have a Martin Logan Descent (original) subwoofer and I have determined that the LFE input is going bad. Would I be missing any AVR processing if I simply feed the subwoofer output to the right (or left) channel input and adjust the sub levels on the front panel once to my liking? My Denon AVR-X2000 is set to send LFE + Mains (i.e. all speakers) to the sub below 100 Hz. (I am running the sub plus a GoldenEar soudbar.)

Thanks!
Andy
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post #1150 of 2403 Old 01-16-2015, 10:33 AM
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Currently I have a 9.2 home theater system with all Martin Logan speakers (not including the subs). Fronts: Sequell ll, Center: Logos. Surround sides, rears, height, and wides: Scripts. All powered by B&K amps
using a Marantz AV8801 pre-amp.
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post #1151 of 2403 Old 01-28-2015, 11:29 PM
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Does anyone else have a Motif and a measurement mic with REW and can measure their Motif for me? I've measured mine and personally I feel like there's something off about the frequency response but when I contacted ML about it they said nothing was wrong.

Measurement I sent to ML:


ML Response:
Quote:
At first glance it would not appear that there is anything wrong with the Motif. I don’t see anything to indicate a non-working or out of phase driver in the speaker. Please note the following:



1. The “On Wall” position on the back of the Motif will reduce the speakers output by 3 to 5 dB below 500 Hz. You might experiment with this switch to see what gives you the best results, regardless of the placement of the speaker.

2. This response might suggest more of an issue with surfaces in proximity to the speaker that could possibly cause some phase cancellations. ( IE, reduced output between 240 and 700 Hz.) Or it may be simply an issue with trying to get an accurate measurement in your particular space. With panel speakers sometimes you can get a more accurate reading by measuring slightly off axis ( say 20 to 30 degrees).

3. I would also check the settings in your processor or receiver. In general you would want the center set to “small”, but again experiment and see what sounds best to you.



In short, if everything sounds ok, it probably is ok. Go with what sounds best to your ears regardless of any graph that may be generated.
I dunno, that 240hz to 700hz looks wonky to me, I know a narrow dip isn't that audible but man it really drops off over a large band IMO.

So I did some more measurements:

On/Off Wall switch changes:


Off Center Measurements:


My Motif was a refurb so that adds to my doubt. I know it's different speakers and placements but I don't notice any of my other ML speakers having that behavior and for comparison my previous center, ML Encore TF:


Anyone have any ideas? Am I just over thinking it? I know it'll never be "flat" but to me it looks either defective (like I said it was a refurb so it fuels my doubt) or intentional and due to ML response it makes me believe they tuned them this way.

My Home Theater/Video Gaming/HTPC/2 Channel rig (Mitsubishi, MartinLogan, Marantz, DIYMA, and others)

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post #1152 of 2403 Old 01-29-2015, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_H View Post
I have a Martin Logan Descent (original) subwoofer and I have determined that the LFE input is going bad. Would I be missing any AVR processing if I simply feed the subwoofer output to the right (or left) channel input and adjust the sub levels on the front panel once to my liking? My Denon AVR-X2000 is set to send LFE + Mains (i.e. all speakers) to the sub below 100 Hz. (I am running the sub plus a GoldenEar soudbar.)

Thanks!
Andy

It's just the RCA input going bad on the sub? What you suggest doing should work if I understand you correctly. Then again, maybe the sub is shot.
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post #1153 of 2403 Old 01-29-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgaffman View Post
Currently I have a 9.2 home theater system with all Martin Logan speakers (not including the subs). Fronts: Sequell ll, Center: Logos. Surround sides, rears, height, and wides: Scripts. All powered by B&K amps
using a Marantz AV8801 pre-amp.
Nice set up.
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post #1154 of 2403 Old 02-02-2015, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Nice set up.
Thanks. I really enjoy the Martin Logan sound
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post #1155 of 2403 Old 02-08-2015, 06:09 PM
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Motion 35xt and Audyssey

Hi Folks, I'm running a pair of 35xt as my fronts with a Marantz sr7007 AV receiver. I've attempted several Audyssey calibrations and all of them result in significant adjustments being made to 10khz to 20khz, looks like at least 5-7db. This is resulting in an extremely hot unbearable treble. I've tried a few different speaker positions but no improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if Audyssey can make proper calibrations to speakers with ribbon tweeters? Anybody have any input on this?
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post #1156 of 2403 Old 02-08-2015, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav1 View Post
Hi Folks, I'm running a pair of 35xt as my fronts with a Marantz sr7007 AV receiver. I've attempted several Audyssey calibrations and all of them result in significant adjustments being made to 10khz to 20khz, looks like at least 5-7db. This is resulting in an extremely hot unbearable treble. I've tried a few different speaker positions but no improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if Audyssey can make proper calibrations to speakers with ribbon tweeters? Anybody have any input on this?
I'll be very interested to see what you find out. I just bought a pair of Motion 12s, a motion 8 center and a pair of motion 2s for surrounds. They'll be hooked up to a Marantz SR-7008.
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post #1157 of 2403 Old 02-08-2015, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav1 View Post
Hi Folks, I'm running a pair of 35xt as my fronts with a Marantz sr7007 AV receiver. I've attempted several Audyssey calibrations and all of them result in significant adjustments being made to 10khz to 20khz, looks like at least 5-7db. This is resulting in an extremely hot unbearable treble. I've tried a few different speaker positions but no improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if Audyssey can make proper calibrations to speakers with ribbon tweeters? Anybody have any input on this?
I have had no issues with the treble being unbearable. I have calibrated the motions on 3 different Marantz AVRs and my current 8801. The treble is very detailed and transparent but I have not found it to be harsh. When I had the motions hooked up on the Denon 4520 I thought it was too bright (why I didn't buy it). Check the processing settings in the 7007 and make sure nothing was turned on by accident. Keep us posted.
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post #1158 of 2403 Old 02-09-2015, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav1 View Post
Hi Folks, I'm running a pair of 35xt as my fronts with a Marantz sr7007 AV receiver. I've attempted several Audyssey calibrations and all of them result in significant adjustments being made to 10khz to 20khz, looks like at least 5-7db. This is resulting in an extremely hot unbearable treble. I've tried a few different speaker positions but no improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if Audyssey can make proper calibrations to speakers with ribbon tweeters? Anybody have any input on this?
Generally speaking, ML Motions are laid back and Marantz are usually laid back. It almost sounds like you are out of phase or something. Try turning off all the gadgetry and eq's. and see what happens.

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post #1159 of 2403 Old 02-09-2015, 08:20 AM
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I still have the Motion C center and Motion FX surrounds available if anyone is interested in the classifieds...
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post #1160 of 2403 Old 02-09-2015, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav1 View Post
Hi Folks, I'm running a pair of 35xt as my fronts with a Marantz sr7007 AV receiver. I've attempted several Audyssey calibrations and all of them result in significant adjustments being made to 10khz to 20khz, looks like at least 5-7db. This is resulting in an extremely hot unbearable treble. I've tried a few different speaker positions but no improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if Audyssey can make proper calibrations to speakers with ribbon tweeters? Anybody have any input on this?

I haven't had any problem using Audyssey with my 11 Motion series speakers with my 4520. In fact, they sound better than the non ribbon tweeter speakers they replaced - the treble sounds smoother and far less harsh on the Martin Logans. Something else must be amiss in your room or calibration.
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post #1161 of 2403 Old 02-12-2015, 04:04 PM
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Using ElectroMotion ESL's in a home theater

A couple years ago, I bought a pair of ElectroMotion ESL's for listening to music. I can't imagine a better speaker. I love the electrostatic sound. One thing I noticed was that they have a very narrow sweet spot. I feel like if I move my head as little as a foot either way, the sound becomes duller. So don't move my head, right?

Now I have set up a projector and screen with two rows of three recliners each, and I want to continue to use the ESL's. My problem is that the sound in the two outside chairs and the back row is not excellent like it is in the front center chair. Is this a problem inherent with the ESL's? Is it a problem with my set up? How have those of you using the ESL-type of speaker adapted to the narrow dispersion?

I appreciate any advice you can provide. Also, I would love for some recommendations for which ML center and surrounds to use.

Thank you,
Joe
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post #1162 of 2403 Old 02-12-2015, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axteljo View Post
A couple years ago, I bought a pair of ElectroMotion ESL's for listening to music. I can't imagine a better speaker. I love the electrostatic sound. One thing I noticed was that they have a very narrow sweet spot. I feel like if I move my head as little as a foot either way, the sound becomes duller. So don't move my head, right?

Now I have set up a projector and screen with two rows of three recliners each, and I want to continue to use the ESL's. My problem is that the sound in the two outside chairs and the back row is not excellent like it is in the front center chair. Is this a problem inherent with the ESL's? Is it a problem with my set up? How have those of you using the ESL-type of speaker adapted to the narrow dispersion?

I appreciate any advice you can provide. Also, I would love for some recommendations for which ML center and surrounds to use.

Thank you,
Joe

I think that the electrostatics are more a high end 2 channel music speaker for this very reason, and whether it's a " problem " depends on your needs and theater set up. You could try adjusting the angle on them slightly. I'd probably pick the Electromotion C2 center and the Electromotion FX2 surrounds. The Motif X center would work too. Perhaps with all the other speakers installed, the narrower sweet spot won't be as noticeable. At least if you in it !

Last edited by Craig Peer; 02-12-2015 at 05:09 PM.
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post #1163 of 2403 Old 02-12-2015, 07:30 PM
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Laser beam imaging. ESL summit theos pretty much all their panels. The sweet spot is very good. The ml's will disappear. Move outside the laser and bye bye
imaging. I agree with last post. Great speaker for critical 2 channel. Not so much for an audience watching movies. Motions are better for that.
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post #1164 of 2403 Old 02-13-2015, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axteljo View Post
A couple years ago, I bought a pair of ElectroMotion ESL's for listening to music. I can't imagine a better speaker. I love the electrostatic sound. One thing I noticed was that they have a very narrow sweet spot. I feel like if I move my head as little as a foot either way, the sound becomes duller. So don't move my head, right?

Now I have set up a projector and screen with two rows of three recliners each, and I want to continue to use the ESL's. My problem is that the sound in the two outside chairs and the back row is not excellent like it is in the front center chair. Is this a problem inherent with the ESL's? Is it a problem with my set up? How have those of you using the ESL-type of speaker adapted to the narrow dispersion?

I appreciate any advice you can provide. Also, I would love for some recommendations for which ML center and surrounds to use.

Thank you,
Joe
Sounds about right, a have less than a foot sweet spot with my EM-ESLs. A center channel will solve that for home theater use.

If it's in your budget, I would go for the Motif-X. B-stock units are available for less than $1600. I would also check with the AVS Sales guys here to see what they can do for you.
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post #1165 of 2403 Old 02-13-2015, 11:49 AM
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They are excellent for home theater. Its not like 2 channel music where you need a good image. Movies are completely different. My ESL's and Em C2 sound sick for movies..
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post #1166 of 2403 Old 02-13-2015, 11:57 AM
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I was actually considering the Venere 2.5's before I got the ML's,but man do they look cheap close up. The grills sucked also. Super thin,and the shape bothered me. The top reminded me of the head of an Alien ,in the alien movies. grrrr
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post #1167 of 2403 Old 02-15-2015, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axteljo View Post
A couple years ago, I bought a pair of ElectroMotion ESL's for listening to music. I can't imagine a better speaker. One thing I noticed was that they have a very narrow sweet spot.

Now I have set up a projector and screen with two rows of three recliners each, and I want to continue to use the ESL's. My problem is that the sound in the two outside chairs and the back row is not excellent like it is in the front center chair.

Also, I would love for some recommendations for which ML center and surrounds to use.
Hey Joe,

You don't have a "problem". You've got a fantastic new room you're still working on. Spending the time to get it right is half the fun, so enjoy the ride. And yes, you can make those stats you love work great in there.

Our HT rooms are similar -- we've got 4 recliners in the front row, and 3 in the back row, with ML stats (Theos) as fronts, and an ML Stage-X center. The center seat in the rear row is tuned as the primary LP. That's because, with our equipment and room geometry, that gave all seven seats the best possible sonic experience. YMMV

Forget everything about how you set up for your old music room, and start from scratch. Positioning the speakers in space and adjusting angle of orientation (from right to left, and up and down) is especially important for stats, as you already know. But you'll have to do it over and over again, over an extended period of time, to get it just right. Run your room correction software periodically too, and see what that does. Your room, carpet, furniture and treatments effect everything, obviously.

You can use the flashlight trick to help with the R-L adjustments, but mostly you'll have to spend time in each LP (not just the primary) and listen to content you're familiar with over and over again. Focus on content that's rich in the most directional of all sounds, high frequencies, to help you fine tune.

Our riser was small, just under 5 inches, so picking the right chairs to avoid rear row sonic obstructions was key. We recline the front row chairs a bit too, even when nobody's seated there, to give the 3 front speakers a clear shot at the rear row ears. Given our room and furniture, we adjusted the rear feet on the FR and FL stats higher, changing their vertical orientation. Just a bunch of little stuff. Play around. You'll hear it each time you make an improvement.

You got some good advice from Craig and sdolen, because a well-matched center speaker will be huge for you. They offer some good options. After listening to various options and obsessing for a while, I finally bought an ML Stage-X. Worked out great for our room. You still get that great, ethereal capacity the stats offer, no surprise there, but what knocked my socks off was the richness of the mid frequencies.

We'd played The Big Lebowski about a zillion times before getting the Stage-X. After we had it all calibrated, we watched it again. The opening moments, when you first here Sam Elliott's voice, never sounded like that before. Not even close.

Spend whatever you can on your center. It's the most used channel in HT, and will help provide the full soundstage you want.

You'll hear different opinions, but I think you can save a few bucks on the surrounds, and plow that money into places you'll hear it more -- your center and/or your subs. Just my 2 cents. Have fun!

PS: Ditto on getting a quote from AVS. Craig took really good care of us. Probably couldn't have afforded the Stage if it wasn't for him.
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"Get me a scotch. I'm starving." JVC DLA RS-540U, Stewart ST 130 G3, Yamaha RX-A3080, Emotiva XPA-3, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 103D, Xfinity X1, Roku, ATV, Harmony 900.  Atmos 7.2.4 via Martin Logan Stage-X, Martin Logan Theos x2, Martin Logan FX x2, Sonance VP69 x2, Sonance VP66 x4, SVS PC12-NSD x2. Viewer's choice between Palliser recliners x7 or Great Dane beds x2.

Last edited by mogrub; 02-15-2015 at 11:47 AM. Reason: typo
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post #1168 of 2403 Old 02-15-2015, 02:25 PM
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Wow, that's what I love about this forum, great advice from those with far more experience. I appreciate all the very helpful comments. You're right, I probably don't need to be as critical with movie soundtracks as I am with music. And I'm looking forward to replacing the 1981 B&W monitor stacked on its mate as my center channel.

@mogrub "the Dude abides." Thanks very much for taking the time to lay it out for me. Going downstairs now to start experimenting. That was very useful, much appreciated.
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post #1169 of 2403 Old 02-15-2015, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by axteljo View Post
That was very useful, much appreciated.
Happy to toss some ideas at you Joe. And don't ease up on your critical listening skills just yet -- movie soundtracks can and will sound fab in your new room. Grab a Caucasian or two while you're working on it!

"Get me a scotch. I'm starving." JVC DLA RS-540U, Stewart ST 130 G3, Yamaha RX-A3080, Emotiva XPA-3, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 103D, Xfinity X1, Roku, ATV, Harmony 900.  Atmos 7.2.4 via Martin Logan Stage-X, Martin Logan Theos x2, Martin Logan FX x2, Sonance VP69 x2, Sonance VP66 x4, SVS PC12-NSD x2. Viewer's choice between Palliser recliners x7 or Great Dane beds x2.
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post #1170 of 2403 Old 02-16-2015, 09:48 AM
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Martin Logan speakers are on sale until Feb. 20th ( 10% off ) - just FYI. Call or email if interested.
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