SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 54 21.01%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 20 7.78%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 59 22.96%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 50 19.46%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 29 11.28%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 25 9.73%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 26 10.12%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1051 of 1060 Old 12-14-2018, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Monopoles for sure, then.

I would invest in a receiver with pre-amp outs (or pre-amp) that allows you to grow. 7.1.4 is the minimum for effective and more noticeable 3D sound, and yes they are north of $1,000 normally, though AV Science is pretty competitive. Better to bite the bullet and buy something good.

If your speakers have foam surrounds then that is a great excuse to look into new models and add a bit at a time. There are many economical speakers to choose from now, especially with ID companies in the picture.
As I look at this more and more... I think it makes sense to just sell the Outlaw 7125 amplifier (it should still bring a fair price on the used market.) If I go north a bit on the AVR - maybe $1200 to $1500 - perhaps I can get one with preamp ins and outs. I stil wlant to drive the 8" side firing woofers with the dedicated monoblock sub amps. I'm thinking I don't need to use LFE out because I have the active crossover, plus they are nto true subs. Instead, I will be bi-amping the L/R speakers (good for music.) I can sell the HDP-1 NHT surround speakers (someone will want them if the price is right,) then get some used Super Zero speakers for the sides. NHT makes in-ceiling speakers but they're pricey relative to my budget. I have been given to understand that timbre matching is not really crucial for the in-ceiling Atmos speakers.

Here is the thing I have yet to gain an understanding of (despite extensive reading) - if my source is just 5.1 or 7.1 not Atmos - do the Atmos speakers get no signal until or unless the processor detects Atmos encoding?
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post #1052 of 1060 Old 12-14-2018, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaelon56 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Monopoles for sure, then.

I would invest in a receiver with pre-amp outs (or pre-amp) that allows you to grow. 7.1.4 is the minimum for effective and more noticeable 3D sound, and yes they are north of $1,000 normally, though AV Science is pretty competitive. Better to bite the bullet and buy something good.

If your speakers have foam surrounds then that is a great excuse to look into new models and add a bit at a time. There are many economical speakers to choose from now, especially with ID companies in the picture.
As I look at this more and more... I think it makes sense to just sell the Outlaw 7125 amplifier (it should still bring a fair price on the used market.) If I go north a bit on the AVR - maybe $1200 to $1500 - perhaps I can get one with preamp ins and outs. I still want to drive the 8" side firing woofers with the dedicated monoblock sub amps. I'm thinking I don't need to use LFE out because I have the active crossover, plus they are not true subs. Instead, I will be bi-amping the L/R speakers (good for music.) I can sell the HDP-1 NHT surround speakers (someone will want them if the price is right,) then get some used Super Zero speakers for the sides. NHT makes in-ceiling speakers but they're pricey relative to my budget. I have been given to understand that timbre matching is not really crucial for the in-ceiling Atmos speakers.

Here is the thing I have yet to gain an understanding of (despite extensive reading) - if my source is just 5.1 or 7.1 not Atmos - do the Atmos speakers get no signal until or unless the processor detects Atmos encoding?
If you have stereo, 5.1, or 7.1 source material, you can use either Dolby Surround or DTS Neural: X upmixers to steer and spread the sound to all the speakers in the room using their matrix logic algorithms. They actually do a pretty decent job of extracting sounds and placing them around and above you when not playing true, discrete immersive Dolby Atmos or DTS: X tracks.

I do recommend picking up a UHD Blu-ray player with Dolby Vision support as that will allow you to play all the disc based immersive titles available. Some studios now only place their immersive mixes on UHD discs (like Fox and Disney, and often randomly from the other studios). If you haven't picked up a 4k display yet, you can still play 4k discs downgraded to 1080p.

Bi-amping/bi-wiring speakers is not as popular anymore as the tested benefits are small to nill as compared to the added expense and hassle. I would skip that.

Many of these mid tier receivers will need an outboard stereo amp to power one pair of overheads. The higher tier models now tend to have 11 digital amps built-in.

No receiver has as robust an amp section as good external power amps, however.

Take a look at RSL speakers and their angled in-ceiling C34E model as those have been given the thumbs-up for modestly priced Atmos overheads.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 12-14-2018 at 08:25 AM.
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post #1053 of 1060 Old 12-20-2018, 08:49 AM
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I've decided to try a speaker tweak for my set up. Currently, I have Tannoy DC 12i's for my LCR. I'm using Tannoy AMS 8DC for the sides and rears. My in-ceiling speakers are Tannoy 603 DC speakers two pair in Front and Middle designation. I have two rows of seats with the back row about 3.5 feet from the rear wall.

I rear speakers are up slightly from ear level and tilted slightly towards the listner. I've never been really happy with the rear soundstage. I've fallen into the thinking of mono speakers only....but recently a pair of Tannoy EFX-1 rear channel di/bi-pole speakers became available. My thought is to use the Tannoy bi-pole for rear placement in my atmos set up. Why? The distance between the rear seats and the MLP (3.5 ft). I'm hoping to use the bi-pole design to create a more immersive soundstage. I know I'll maybe giving up rear localized placement of sound effects (as Atmos intended), but trying to straddle a middle ground.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/77...noy-Efx-1.html

My question would be placement of the speakers? Where to best locate them relative to the rear seats...above ear level? How high above. Off to the sides of the listening position (on the rear wall)? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I will use some stacked boxes to move the speakers around behind the MLP, while I test out what works best. And, I may decide not to keep them if they don't work out as intended etc.

I should also add I am using an NAD receiver with Dirac 2 calibration.


Thanks for any help

Ron


I mounted the Tannoy's last night just slightly outside of the listening position on each side of the couch, about 2/3 up from the floor. I got what I had hoped, which was a fuller rear sound-stage from the bi-poles. I tried a couple of localized rear sound effects (Fury Road opening and Dark Knight swat team below the street attack by the joker) and was pleased with the localized effects performance.

Since the first row (of two) sits within 3 ft of the side surrounds, I'm considering another pair of Tannoy EFX-1 bi-pole speakers for the sides.
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post #1054 of 1060 Old 01-24-2019, 09:15 PM
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surround speakers

Hello, has anyone heard of Golden Ear Triton one. I am using them in my 7.2.1 system, you get 2 subs 1600 watts built into your mains. No need for separate subs if space is a consideration.
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post #1055 of 1060 Old 01-28-2019, 03:45 AM
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Hello

I am about to buy the Mission Lx-2 + and the Mission Lx-C, but I have no space to place surrond bookself speakers.

Now i can buy second hands (good condition) Mission M7DS bipoles set, would the fit nicely with the Mission Lx series?

Greetings
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post #1056 of 1060 Old 02-06-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post
I've used many different types of speakers as surrounds. But until recently, I always thought that regular front-firing speakers were better for the surrounds, as they were a closer match to the fronts.

Damn... was I wrong!

After trying out a few types of dipoles and bipoles, I wonder why everyone doesn't have dipoles in their system. I'm also amazed that more hi-fi shops don't sell or push them... or even KNOW about them, as is all too often the case here in Australia !
I know, pretty old post...

i have started with "pseudo surround" at home as soon as the first VHS movies with ProLogic became available. The first time with a simple single speaker connected to the both "hot" (red) speaker pins of the stereo amp, until I bought a Sony TA-E1000ESD AV 5.1 Surround Pre.
For that one I used DIY "all around beaming" surround speakers. That was a special construction with a 2" dome on the top.

at the beginning of the new century a Yamaha AX1 moved in and the speaker layout grow to 6.1.2 (5.1 + rear center + 2 front high). The "all arounds" became the front high which where perfect for the reproduction of the Yamaha DSP programs with just two height speakers in the front and all the rest standard front firing.
the source wasn't VHS tape anymore but DVDs with DD or dts sound with separated 5.1 channels.

but I played a lot and searched for the most suitable speakers for the various placements, especially when the system grew up to 7.2.4 with the Yamaha Z11 in 2008 (long before Dolby announced Atmos for the HT).

I bought 2 pairs of these T+A surround speakers which are switchable between:
- direct
- dipol
- bipol

I'll try to make it short:
if you have a "normal" home theatre with enough space for the speakers (distance to the audience) on one hand but not more than one row of seats ("limited" listening area) there is no way around standard front firing speakers for ALL purposes/positions!

I really tried everything and anything else than a proper positioned direct firing speaker makes the precision and localization of effects worse!
there are cases when this "worse" is wanted. If the speakers are too near to (parts of) the audience a "fuzzy sound" may be more "pleasant".
but in general the direct firing speakers deliver the best result by far!

that can be expanded to height speakers as well. I tried all the different speakers as heights and the farer away they are from "direct dispersion" the worse it sounds.
maybe some people like this fuzzy sound at first. The sound seems to come from everywhere but that's not what you want! If the plane comes from behind to the front you want one precise "sound spot" moving through your cinema and not a cloud which fills the whole room and doesn't really move but just gets louder and quieter again.
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post #1057 of 1060 Old 02-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
I mounted the Tannoy's last night just slightly outside of the listening position on each side of the couch, about 2/3 up from the floor. I got what I had hoped, which was a fuller rear sound-stage from the bi-poles. I tried a couple of localized rear sound effects (Fury Road opening and Dark Knight swat team below the street attack by the joker) and was pleased with the localized effects performance.

Since the first row (of two) sits within 3 ft of the side surrounds, I'm considering another pair of Tannoy EFX-1 bi-pole speakers for the sides.
If you do find another set of bipoles to use for side surrounds, please respond back with your observations. I'm thinking of switching out my monopole sides for a set of bipoles but have reservations. I don't really enjoy the buy, try, and resell cycle.

Current Equipment: Datasat LS10 w/ Atmos and DIRAC. ATI 6005, AT527NC, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), SR3's sides, LR3's (rears), Seaton Submersive HP, Marantz VP15s1, 123" diag 16:9 Stewart Cima Neve screen, Oppo BDP-103, Palliser Flicks Theater Seating AC Power: Eaton whole-house surge protector at main panel, three dedicated 20 amp circuits, Surgex XR315 surge protector at equipment rack, Cyberpower 1400VA/900 watt, true sine wave UPS.
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post #1058 of 1060 Old 02-10-2019, 10:03 AM
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If you do find another set of bipoles to use for side surrounds, please respond back with your observations. I'm thinking of switching out my monopole sides for a set of bipoles but have reservations. I don't really enjoy the buy, try, and resell cycle.
Though my experience may not translate to your set up or room dynamics, the move from monopole speakers to bi-pole speakers for the side surrounds are a positive. Though localization "may" take a hit, from either the first row or second the more diffused sound is a big plus. I'm finding the LCR blending better with the side surrounds creating a larger sound bubble. I primarily sit in the second row, so I still feel the sounds to the right or left of me are directional/localized coming from the bi-pole (matching the screen action).

We are planning on moving and I expect to sell the house (with the home theater intact), so I may switch back to the monopoles, taking the bi/di-poles with me.
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post #1059 of 1060 Old 02-10-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
Though my experience may not translate to your set up or room dynamics, the move from monopole speakers to bi-pole speakers for the side surrounds are a positive. Though localization "may" take a hit, from either the first row or second the more diffused sound is a big plus. I'm finding the LCR blending better with the side surrounds creating a larger sound bubble. I primarily sit in the second row, so I still feel the sounds to the right or left of me are directional/localized coming from the bi-pole (matching the screen action).

We are planning on moving and I expect to sell the house (with the home theater intact), so I may switch back to the monopoles, taking the bi/di-poles with me.
Ron, thank you. That's a pretty strong endorsement for the bipoles!

Current Equipment: Datasat LS10 w/ Atmos and DIRAC. ATI 6005, AT527NC, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), SR3's sides, LR3's (rears), Seaton Submersive HP, Marantz VP15s1, 123" diag 16:9 Stewart Cima Neve screen, Oppo BDP-103, Palliser Flicks Theater Seating AC Power: Eaton whole-house surge protector at main panel, three dedicated 20 amp circuits, Surgex XR315 surge protector at equipment rack, Cyberpower 1400VA/900 watt, true sine wave UPS.
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post #1060 of 1060 Old 04-17-2019, 08:25 AM
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SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE?

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I’ve has Paradigm ADP-390’s for my side and rear surrounds since 2008, now I’m 7.2.6 / 9.2.4 active and still using them.

Here’s the rears as I lowered them for the rear heights, before their final install


Now I’m building HTM-6’s actually for my family room usage, but I’m going to try them in my basement HT as temp surrounds. Curious how the waveguide will sound vs current speakers





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I ended up building 2 pair of HTM-8’s


Actually held a gtg at my home this past weekend

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...3-s-other.html

I’ve installed one pair of HTM-8’s at the side surrounds...




Discussion here is rear and back surrounds...
As noted I was using paradigm ADP-390’s, their adaptive dipoles, has front facing woofer besides the side firing tweeter/miss.
As you can see on the sides I went monopole HTM-8’s. Aimed at 1st row mlp, however the rear surrounds... are closer to 2nd row than ideal and I’m re-thinking to now keep the ADP-390’s there. Thoughts?
Excuse the wires it’s a work in progress then they will be inwalls.




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