"doveryai no proveryai"
Originally Posted by batpig
With respect, I know it's frustrating to be an enthusiast and not see all the data you want.... but remember that Triad is trusted by nearly every top custom installer in the world. Not just average joe local installers, but the famous guys like Dennis Erskine, Anthony Grimani, Shawn Byrne who are building world-class theaters that win CEDIA awards. And, also, not only are these big names, they are also HT acoustics experts and thought leaders who don't just slap a product into a room and call it a day, these are the guys doing custom acoustic designs by making calculations based on what they know about speaker directivity / off-axis response. They would NOT use Triad speakers if they didn't have great measurements, i.e. consistent, predictable performance with low distortion and excellent off-axis response.
And Dolby trusts them to test and develop new technology, they used Triad speakers to demo Atmos when it first came out in 2014 and last CEDIA they chose Triad for their super high channel count Trinnov demo room which won awards.
My feeling is that is that if ALL of these top pros trust Triad in their flagship theater designs, what possible reason is there for you or me, amateur HT guy, to doubt that they are high performing products? What are you or me going to figure out looking at some spinoramas or polar plots that Dennis Erskine or Anthony Grimani didn't?
At a certain point, it's safe to accept even without a personal audition that Triads are superb performing, robust and reliable designs that do what they claim to.
I started collecting used Triad, "sight unheard", simply because of this reputation they've established. I have never heard anyone who owns them be displeased with their performance. Zero regrets. Sometimes people overthink this stuff.
"Trust but Verify!"
It's not that I mistrust Triad. It's that I don't have enough data to make an informed decision about their speakers. When I was looking at speakers for Atmos, I looked at EVERY Triad in-ceiling speaker. The theoretically "ideal" speaker would have been the In-Ceiling Silver/6 Monitors because they "match" my surrounds, and they use the same midrange drivers and tweeters as my Platinums. Technically, they could be considered a perfect "timbre-match" for my Silver Monitor surrounds and Platinum LCR's. However, look at the speaker:
It's an MTM design. Ceiling mounting it requires a "horizontal" alignment. It can either be mounted along the long axis of the room, firing towards the back wall, or along the short axis, firing across the room. Here is the "typical" high frequency dispersion pattern of an MTM speaker:
In the high frequency range, and,without any kind of waveguide or dispersion lens, we "know" that the tweeter will beam the high frequencies straight forward. Therefore the listener sitting off-axis will be listening well outside the the optimal HF dispersion pattern. IOW, the high frequencies will be at a much lower level off-axis than on-axis. I have aimed all my other Triad speakers so I am listening directly on-axis to all of them, greatly reducing the impact of the off-axis response. In addition, my acoustic treatments further reduce the impact of the early reflections. To add a set of MTM's that I am forced to listen to off-axis, just didn't make sense.
More importantly, here is the typical "lobing" pattern of an MTM design:
In an Atmos Overhead position, the speaker is, by definition, in an off-axis position and the listener is forced to listen to the off-axis response in the zone that is labeled, "Cancellation Axis." The only way to correct this is to rotate the speaker so it is "aimed" at the LP, which is not possible with the In-Ceiling Silver/6 Monitor. So, now we have a horizontal MTM in a decidedly off-axis position. We *know* that this is will cause the listener to be in the lobing/cancellation portion of the dispersion pattern.
Add the fact that the drivers are mounted at a 45 degree angle with a side wall baffle. That surface can "block" the lateral dispersion, causing diffraction anomalies. Who knows what acoustic issues that will cause? Sure, it has some acoustic absorption, but it only looks to be about 1/2" thick, so it will only absorb the high frequencies... which will again change the off-axis timbre of the speaker.
Bottom line, I could spend over $2k per speaker on a speaker that is *theoretically* a perfect timbre-match for my other speakers... that Triad advised me would be the best speaker to use with my other speakers... and end up with a speaker that is decidedly NOT a timbre-match for my mains. Unfortunately, they couldn't provide me with measurments to back up that claim. Without on- and off-axis dispersion measurements, I had no idea how well it would work. And, unless Triad had some secret sauce that allowed them to defy the laws of physics and wave propagation, I'm virtually certain I would not get the ideal timbre-match I was after. I refused to spend that kind of money for something I couldn't verify would provide the response I wanted.
So, instead of using a "theoretically" timbre-matched speaker in a highly compromised position, I elected to use an AIMABLE non-Triad speaker, but one that I had actually HEARD in two systems that use the same Platinum speakers I have. @audioguy
Therefore, I knew how well timbre-matched they are to my other speakers and how well they could be aimed to provide optimal on-axis response:
In addition, RSL actually provides horizontal and vertical dispersion measurements: https://rslspeakers.com/products/c34...iling-speaker/
The vertical dispersion is not perfect, but, since I *KNOW* that, I can ensure I'm not listening to the vertical off-axis response! (I *might* have been able to do something to accommodate the Triads IF I had at least *known* the dispersion patterns of the speakers.)
I didn't like the fact that the speakers were unenclosed, so I built my own backboxes for them. I built them so they drop perfectly into my ceiling gridwork, and they have exactly the RSL prescribed internal volume:
The results I achieved are stellar, and I did it for less than 1/4 the cost of the "matching" Triads.
Others are welcome to spend massive amounts of money on speakers they've never heard, and have no idea how they measure, based solely on the trust they place in the "advice" of sales reps. I hope they don't get a response that is very highly compromised, but I have my doubts. Me??? I'll only extend my trust so far, and I'll verify whenever I can. If Triad won't provide the information I need to verify, I'll move on. For Atmos speakers, I already have.