Totem Acoustic Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose View Post

My Swans are the 2.1SE, not Diva. Look at them and tell me they don't look like a Totem clone:
http://www.theaudioinsider.com/produ...products_id/69

I'd love to hear them vs the Sierra-1, as these were the top 2 performers in Craigsub's shootout.

Looks like their driver is same as the forest - a Dynaudio driver,not the Revelator driver.

Hawks may be sold, so that will save me some money anyway

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post #32 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Model1 sig on cam in Toronto for a few bucks more than 1k. That also looks like a nice deal. At worst, you could probably sell them with very minimal loss, that's one thing with Totem, they seem to have good resale and in case of Model1, even small boxes to ship.

Where I'm concerned, even though the model1s retail for over 2000$, I'd be curious to compare them to Sierras. The 1s are nice, but when you're not directly comparing speakers in the same room with the same electronics... Heard "The One" not so long ago, the 3500$ anniversary model1 sig, and while they were nice, imho, they were not 3500$ nice.

But again, imho, the Model1 is a step above the Arro in sound quality and they're a truly small speakers so maybe better off than the Hawks in a small room. Though I still don't get/agree that the Hawks would be a worst match for a small room than Arros/Sttaf... Ok maybe it's a placement thing, Arro could potentially be placed closer to rear wall (though that exaggerates the bass...), but in terms of speaker, the Hawk is a small speaker; they only use 5.5 inch woofers... They're again much closer to monitor with built in stands than fullsize floorstanders which can really be too big for a room.

Model1 for 1k vs Sierra1 at normal price... Somewhat of a tough call and honestly I think they're somewhat in the same league in terms of sound quality. I'm fairly sure bass will go in Sierra's favor, the rest would be a toss up or close imho. Depends also how much you like the M1 'signature' sound. Piano black vs veneer is personal taste... Sound quality... I've yet to hear the Sierras on uber electronics. But the Model1 sound great with >10000$ of amp/cdps behind them. I think bit better resolution/detail than my Sierras when run through 1000$ (total of ALL components) of electronics. But who knows how much better the Sierras would sound if they were run through the same very high end equipment that the Model1s are run with when I hear them... Still, heard both Model1 and Arro on same gear, and Model1 is superior imho. Sierra, who knows...

What messes up things more, comparisons on different electronics might change the outcome, as I said the Arros are PITA to drive, and so are the Model1s. I think they're less than 85dB, and drop below 4 ohms. So as Sierras are easier to drive, might easily better Arro/M1 on many electronics since Totems will not work as well with many amps...

Only thing that concerns me about the Sierra's is that the bass they produce causes their midrange to suffer. Not me saying it as I haven't heard them, this is from a review I've read and some other comments I've read. The mids, though accurate, seem recessed, dry, sterile, or some such thing like that. I know you really like them, and other owners really like them as well, but they're $900 speakers, and even $9000.00 speakers have flaws. Without being able to hear them first, I'd have to know if I could live with the "Sierra" flaws, and I want a nice solid midrange more so than deep bass.

The Arro's are a bit more effiicient than the rest of the totem line @ 87 db, the Sierra's are rated at 86.5 so it's a toss up in efficiency, but the Arro's are 4ohm's vs. 8ohms for the Sierra, so the Sierra would run easier to be sure.

What is most attractive about the Arro's (all Totem's actually) is (as already mentioned) they hold their resale very well. If for whatever reason I didn't like them (or grew tired of them, wanted an upgrade, etc.) I'd get a lot more for them than used Sierra's.

I saw the model 1's up for sale too at CAM. I'd have to hear them first though, but that is their 'sig' speaker so I'm sure it sounds terrific. I'm not sure though I want a book shelf/monitor 'size' speaker though, I really was impressed with the Arro. Still leaning that way but still mulling it over. Thanks for all the input though - very valuable and very much appreciated!!!!

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post #33 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Looks like their driver is same as the forest - a Dynaudio driver,not the Revelator driver.

But it's not... it's a Hivi driver, made in China. Possibly a clone of the Dynaudio. I'm not sure.
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post #34 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 08:31 PM
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I'm really not quite sure about the low resale value of the Sierra. I mean, have you ever seen one on sale? Any Ascend for that matter. Price is basically dictated by demand and offer. Ascend seems to be having trouble keeping up with the demand so there must be some demand for them. But there's hardly any used Ascend on sale anywhere. Extremely rare. So I'm guessing that if you had to sell a pair of them, you'd have absolutely no trouble finding a buyer.

What I meant earlier was that if you buy a pair of used Arros for 750$, then you might be able to resell them 750$ also. Who knows how many times they've passed hands, some mention it, others not. If you buy new though, not sure how much you could get for them when there's some selling for 700$... Many Totems on sale, resale price goes down.

I think Sierra is a new hot item. It's the new Ascend speaker. Maybe in 5 years they won't be so hot, but today I doubt you'd have trouble selling them for a good price. On 1200$ Arros, sell 700$, that's 500$ loss... For Ascend, they're like 900$, that would be selling them for 400$ lol. What would be the sale price for Sierra PB? 750? 700? 600?

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The mids, though accurate, seem recessed, dry, sterile, or some such thing like that.

lol Yeah I guess that's the thing. If you want speakers which brings the mids forward or something like that, or add lushness, they might not be the best choice. I don't think the Sierra mids are recessed. But when compared to some Totems or other speakers... Maybe... But imho, it's all somewhat conflicting. If it's accurate, then it's not recessed, it's not dry nor sterile... Unless the recording is, but then that's a recording flaw, not the speaker.

That's the thing with Totems, they all have their own signature sound, sometimes they sound great, other times they sound average, other times they sound poor.

Not sure where you've heard that the Sierra bass makes their mids suffer. But let me just point out that the same thing would apply to Totems. Arros use 4.5 inch woofers to go down to 40hz according to Totem. And actually, size wise, I think internal volume of Arros would be quite close compared to Sierra... 33.5 x 5.1 x 7.1" vs 14.25" x 7.5" x 10.5", 1213 cu.in. vs 1122... Arro is just built upwards, Sierra is wider and deeper, but looking at cabinet size, not that different internal volume. Though 5.5 inch woofers vs 4.5 inch...

The Model1 have a very small cabinet, and the port tune is very similar to Sierra, like 40ish hz I think. I'm no speaker designer, but I think larger internal volume helps for bass extension. So in both case, my rather uneducated guess would be that the Sierra would have an easier time than the Totems. vs Arro similar internal volume & port tuning but 5.5 inch woofer vs 4.5 for Arros. And vs Model1, quite a bit bigger box.

Another difference is that the Sierra have an inert bamboo cabinet, while Totem just normal 3/4 inch cabinet... And brorosillicate if you're to believe them, but they're also selling BS snake oil power bars, so... so much for their credibility.

Back to mids:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...wans_d21se.htm
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Beyond that, however, the two speakers are very different. The Swans had the Sierra beat on bass extension, but lag behind them in bass tightness and control. This continued, to a degree, up into the midrange: the Sierra's mids are crisp and detailed while the Swans' are plummy and romantic. The opposite is true for the highs, where the Sierra is natural & uncolored, but the Swans slightly spitty treble continued to pull subtle details out of my recordings that the musicians, I expect, would have rather kept hidden.

This part is similar to what I was trying to say for Totem vs 'accurate':
Quote:


When it came to simple listening enjoyment, which speaker I preferred varied from recording to recording. On Saudades by Trio Beyond [ECM, 2006]; Jack DeJohnette, Larry Goldings, and John Scofield's modern tribute to Lifetime (Tony Williams' fiery late '60s power trio); the Sierra brought a little more edgy grit out of Scofield's guitar tone, while the Swans made more seductive listening out of the proceedings. Winner: the Sierra-1. Lush & seductive can be nice, but it doesn't work for everything. In this case, the Sierra's presentation held me on the edge of my seat more effectively.

So probably similar vs Totem. Me, I was more annoyed than anything when Totem music altering characteristics made me listen to the Totem speakers flaws instead of the music. I want speakers to be as invisible as possible; just play the music like on the recording; not modify it to add it's own color. If you always want the same thing, ex; more lush mids or whatever, and found exactly what you want with the Totems, that's great, but for me, forget that, just show me what's on the recording, and Ascend does it in a more accurate fashion (FR/presentation wise; bass, mids, treble balance).

Anyhow, imho, Sierra doesn't really have any mid problems. Quite the opposite. Maybe an ever so slight recess, not impossible, but imho it's really insignificant if it's there. Never really noticed anything about it... Mids are pretty much spot on imho. But I'll keep listening and report if I find anything. Reading some old reviews... Didn't see anything about it...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...c_sierra_1.htm
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I'm not sure how to describe a midrange that isn't there. I don't mean recessed, I mean completely transparent. The Sierra has no "sound" in the mids…midrange-dominant instruments (and that would be pretty much all of them: piano, guitar, horns, stings, the human voice, etc.) are presented with a compelling allure simply because they sound like instruments. Transient articulation is fast and controlled, and dynamics are astounding for such a small speaker.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...AA_Sierra1.pdf
Quote:


Supporting the high end is a neutral mid-range that
has little distinguishable character of its own. You
could say – it just is. The Sierra 1’s mid-range is
extremely quick, detailed and clean. It is so clean
that it may take some listeners time to adjust to this
type of sound.

Anyhow, Arro, Sttaf, Model1, Hawks, Sierra, like their sound go for it Sierra are a bargain for their performance, but used Totem is good too. 'Best' would be a toss up depending on listener...

Quote:


I'd have to know if I could live with the "Sierra" flaws, and I want a nice solid midrange more so than deep bass.

Yeah nice solid midrange... but imho much less flaws than Arros/Sttafs. MUCH more complete speaker than either. IMHO, closer to Hawks in terms of complete speaker package.
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post #35 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose View Post

But it's not... it's a Hivi driver, made in China. Possibly a clone of the Dynaudio. I'm not sure.

Oh, I know it's not. Probably a Chinese knockoff, but who cares? As long as it performs well (which by all accounts it does). Are they still performing well for you? I was very tempted to grab a pair when they were on sale last month. Just wasn't sure of my funds at the time. Better idea now

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post #36 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 09:47 PM
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Without hearing the Sierra's I would suggest they offer a much better value than new Totems, and similar value to used Totems.
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post #37 of 1745 Old 08-27-2008, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose View Post

Without hearing the Sierra's I would suggest they offer a much better value than new Totems, and similar value to used Totems.

Maybe... I can get the Arro's for the same price as the Sierra 1's - new (that factors in all associated charges with gettng the Sierra's here, including the UPS BS charges, all non-refundable if I decide they're not for me).

No decision made yet - waiting to see what happens on the 'Hawk' deal first.

Grandarf brings up some good points too, but the other side of the coin here is I already have two sets of neutral speakers, the original Ascend 340's and 170's, and the much better Energy RC series (very similar neutral tone as the Ascends, all the detail, but a bit laid back in the highs enabling me to really crank them without any 'beaming' and a much broader, deeper soundstage, but the RC-70's are a true 3 way design floorstander and are in a totally different league than the 340's, so that's an unfair comparison).

So my issue is, do I want yet another 'neutral' speaker?? To be honest, no, I don't. I want something a bit different.. a bit more 'colored' if you will.

And I do understand Grandarf's point - some material will not sound good on the Arro's, whereas with a neutral speaker -it does everything well. However, on music that the Arro's excel at, that's where they should easily trump a neutral speaker. Even though it may not sound 'natural'. Though for tone, pure tone, those Arro's are amazing, better IMO than the Hawk. But the Hawk has a soundstage more like the RC-70's, but with a cleaner, more defined bass and an even richer midrange..... based on my very limited audition of them.

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post #38 of 1745 Old 08-28-2008, 03:11 PM
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Maybe... I can get the Arro's for the same price as the Sierra 1's - new (that factors in all associated charges with gettng the Sierra's here, including the UPS BS charges, all non-refundable if I decide they're not for me).

Or you can just have Ascend ship via USPS which is about 60$ total.

Quote:
So my issue is, do I want yet another 'neutral' speaker?? To be honest, no, I don't. I want something a bit different.. a bit more 'colored' if you will.

So yeah, Arro makes more sens! Though the tubes will already give you a different sound, probably also add it's own touch to the speaker's FR/presentation, again this might work well, or not... If the tubes boost a frequency which the speaker already boosts, or if there's a dip somewhere which also concord with recessed frequency of the speaker, that might just compound the problem. So again comes down to what speaker with what amp...

But I've read great things with matching Arros to tubes, heard them on Conrad Johnson tube gear and that definitely sounded sweet. So I think the Arros are perfect for your application. They're far from perfect themselves, but since you already have multiple systems and just want to add another for fun, you're not really after one speaker which does everything well , seems you already found that in the Energies, so actually it's pretty different than someone looking for ONE pair of speakers.

And don't forget the Model1. Also sounds great, not that far from Arro sound, but they're bit better in resolution imho, a small notch above, and at 1050$ I think it was on CAM, a very nice price, seller was in Toronto, so maybe you could even stop by...

How do you like tube vs SS btw? Tried it with the Ascends or the Energies?
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post #39 of 1745 Old 08-28-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Or you can just have Ascend ship via USPS which is about 60$ total.


So yeah, Arro makes more sens! Though the tubes will already give you a different sound, probably also add it's own touch to the speaker's FR/presentation, again this might work well, or not... If the tubes boost a frequency which the speaker already boosts, or if there's a dip somewhere which also concord with recessed frequency of the speaker, that might just compound the problem. So again comes down to what speaker with what amp...

But I've read great things with matching Arros to tubes, heard them on Conrad Johnson tube gear and that definitely sounded sweet. So I think the Arros are perfect for your application. They're far from perfect themselves, but since you already have multiple systems and just want to add another for fun, you're not really after one speaker which does everything well , seems you already found that in the Energies, so actually it's pretty different than someone looking for ONE pair of speakers.

And don't forget the Model1. Also sounds great, not that far from Arro sound, but they're bit better in resolution imho, a small notch above, and at 1050$ I think it was on CAM, a very nice price, seller was in Toronto, so maybe you could even stop by...

How do you like tube vs SS btw? Tried it with the Ascends or the Energies?

If Dave would send them USPS - that would be great. Buuuuttt..

Went back again to the store (on the way home from a business trip). This time I put on some Stevie Ray Vaughn - another compliation. Listened to Texas Flood and Wham (mostly for bass response - what could I hear outside of Stevie's guitar and the drums). This compilation was not re-mastered, so it sounded like the original. Tried it on the Hawks and Arro's - Hawks dug deeper, and the bass (on Wham) was low, but too far back and barely heard. On the Arro's, a much cleaner sound on the bass, but not low enough (surprise surprise).

They had another speaker - for a good price (between the demo price of the Hawks and the retail price of the Arro) so I said lets try it with that - Wow - there's the bass, smoother top end over the Hawk, more detailed than the Arro, and unfortunately, much more neutral. Plugged the Hawks back in and listened to the "totem' demo music disk. Very nice, rich deep soundstage, speakers seemed to disappear. Alright, lets plug this (speakers I won't name) back in and play the 'totem' disk again. Very very favorable against the Hawks
In fact, they had MORE detail, were smoother, and a much tighter and lower bass. What can I say, I took them home to audition over the weekend (hopefully I'll have enough time to do so).

Can't say anymore, as this is a "Totem" thread that I ressurected, so my comments will have to on the appropriate thread.

I'm still impressed with the Arro's, but not enough to bring them home (yet). The Hawks OK, but for the money 'they' want (Totem) I'd expect a bit more. If the speakers I have now don't 'cut the mustard', then they'll go back on Monday for the Arro's.

What's funny about it is the speakers are almost the opposite of the Arro in terms of size and performance, whereas the Arro you described (and quite accurately btw) as a bookshelf with a built in stand, the speakers I took home are a bookshelf with a tower sound (not quite as low as a tower, but lower bass than the Hawk, and much more detailed than Hawk and about the same detail , but much lower, than the Arro). What's weird though is the bass is only rated at 40 hz, just like the Arro. Don't know where it all came from, but hey, who am I to argue.

They're a bit pricey though, even for the demo model, but the sound IMO was worth it (so far). The price is inbetween the Demo Hawks and the 'new' MSRP of the Arro.

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post #40 of 1745 Old 08-30-2008, 08:14 AM
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I got a chance breifly (a couple of hours) to listen to my er, ah, Totem Killers - the Energy Veritas 2.2i's.

As I mentioned in my last post, IMO they beat both the Hawks and the Arro's up and down in just about everything. I will give the Totems one advantage, and that would be in the imaging. The Totems sound wider, even the little Arro's, than the Veritas do (at least the 2.2i's). But tonally, bass, detail, and smoothness all go to the Veritas either outright or a tie, depending on which speaker was listened to. Basically, the best of both the Hawk and the Arro were found in the Veritas, but without the 'Totem' sound.

So, now I'm listening in home to the Veritas, I'll post my review of that in the Energy thread as it has no bearing on the Totem line other than what I already stated (and who's going to look for thoughts on an Energy speaker in a Totem thread ).

Jury is still out though......

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post #41 of 1745 Old 08-30-2008, 03:09 PM
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Anybody got the Mite "T"s? What reciever do you drive them with?
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post #42 of 1745 Old 09-12-2008, 09:47 AM
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I just got 5 Totem Tribe III's installed in my HT on Wednesday and have been living with them for a couple of days. They're being driven by an Integra 8.8 with a REL B3 on the bottom. This system is replacing Totem Dreamcatcher's driven by an Integra 6.6. My theater room is about 15'x14' with a 10' ceiling.

Of course, they're still early in the break in phase, but a couple of things really stand out. They have the most cohesive sound I've heard since my Acoustat 1100 electrostatic hybrids back in the 90's. I suspect that phase correctness was one of the key design goals with these things. The soft dome tweeter has no hint of the treble harshness you'll occassionally get out of some other speakers in the Totem lineup.

With movies, despite the lack of brightness, the III's find lot of life in older DolbyDigital soundtracks. I watched Star Trek VI last night and was amazed at some of the subtle details I was hearing. On Bluray lossless tracks, the speakers just disappear. Same with the multi-channel DVD-As and SACDs I've checked out.

I'll post more thoughts as the speakers break in and I get some more more listening time with them.
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post #43 of 1745 Old 09-15-2008, 09:59 PM
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I went to buy my B&W 685s today and before I bought it the salesman had me listen to the Totem Mite. I was wowed, instantly liked it more than the 685 and now I'm a proud owner of them
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post #44 of 1745 Old 09-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Anyone know if the Totem lines are all matched? Meaning if I was trying to build a 5.x or 7.x set-up, can I pretty much mix and match any of the Totem line and they will sound the same or are there 'lines' that you have to stay within?
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post #45 of 1745 Old 09-16-2008, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thbrewst View Post

Anyone know if the Totem lines are all matched? Meaning if I was trying to build a 5.x or 7.x set-up, can I pretty much mix and match any of the Totem line and they will sound the same or are there 'lines' that you have to stay within?

Actually, most of the Totem lines sound a bit different. Vince tends to use a lot of different components across different lines and Totem doesn't really have a "house" sound. If you're going to mix and match, I'd make sure to have a listen first for good synergy.
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post #46 of 1745 Old 10-31-2008, 05:58 PM
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Well well well, another update. A&B Sound here in Edmonton packed it in, everything on sale at DEEP DEEP discounts.... guess what I took home? Totem Hawks.... now that I got them at home on MY electronics and in MY room (as compared to the room @ A&B Sound) my initial opinion is starting to change a bit. However, I need to listen more... will be doing that this weekend.

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post #47 of 1745 Old 11-01-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Well well well, another update. A&B Sound here in Edmonton packed it in, everything on sale at DEEP DEEP discounts.... guess what I took home? Totem Hawks.... now that I got them at home on MY electronics and in MY room (as compared to the room @ A&B Sound) my initial opinion is starting to change a bit. However, I need to listen more... will be doing that this weekend.

lucky guy...can you pick-up a pair of Arro's at a&b & send them to me (upstate,NY) at the same deep deep discount?? A&B doesn't ship.
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post #48 of 1745 Old 11-01-2008, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Well well well, another update. A&B Sound here in Edmonton packed it in, everything on sale at DEEP DEEP discounts.... guess what I took home? Totem Hawks.... now that I got them at home on MY electronics and in MY room (as compared to the room @ A&B Sound) my initial opinion is starting to change a bit. However, I need to listen more... will be doing that this weekend.

How deep exactly? Looks like you got in a good deal! As I said earlier, definitely one of the better Totem speakers imho. Didn't like a speaker that used that Revelator driver so far! Arros bass has nothing on the Hawks imho... And overall a much better speaker imho! But do write your impressions vs the energies!
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post #49 of 1745 Old 11-01-2008, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

How deep exactly? Looks like you got in a good deal! As I said earlier, definitely one of the better Totem speakers imho. Didn't like a speaker that used that Revelator driver so far! Arros bass has nothing on the Hawks imho... And overall a much better speaker imho! But do write your impressions vs the energies!

Hi Grand - did you get that Peppino disc yet? If so, how does it compare to the other discs? I've been looking for them (A&B was one place) but no luck so far.

I'm actually finishing up a review of a tube cd player I'm demoing for a company here in Alberta (Grant Fidelity) and have had a chance to use it with the Hawks just today (I bought the Hawks last weekend but had to go out of town all week on business).

So far, briefly, there's nothing much I can say you don't already know about them. That Revelator driver is sweet, very nice especially with tubes. I was mentioning much earlier how I thought my room would be too small for the Hawk and in some cases it is, unreal bass out of that 5 1/2 driver. The Convergent Module of the Veritas (tweeter/midrange) beats the Hawk for separation and detail, though only slightly, bass (as I felt when I demo'd @ A&B) is much more realistic with the Hawk. In my quasi h/t room, I had my Hawks, RC-70's, and 2.2i' all lined up (quite a sight, I'll do it again and snap a pic and post here) and though all sounded different they all sounded good, overall with all genres of music factored in I'd rank the Veritas just slightly ahead of the RC-70's and the RC-70's just slightly ahead of the Hawks, but that's overall, jazz, easy listening, classical the edge goes to the Hawks, Rock and movies goes to the Veritas. (that's also with my SVS Sub filling out the bottom end)

For my two channel tube rig, it's not nearly as close. Though I didn't bring my RC-70's in the room (can only fit so much in a 10 x 12 room) I find the same overall impression (that is the 2.2i's are more detailed and more separated in the upper register) but the bass and mids overall are a big advantage to the Hawk. The Hawks sound good now with anything from Patricia Barber to STP's Core, from Dire Straits to The Tragically Hip to Holst's Planets, the mids are incredilble, guitar is eerily realistic, piano just floats around you, vocals are front and center but not as forward as they are with the Veritas.

As I just mentioned in the Energy thread, the best way I can describe it is when I'm listening to the Veritas's, and it's time to switch speakers, I go up and switch speakers, then when it's time to switch from the Hawk's back to the Veritas, I just listen to another song, or even change a disk to something else first. I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Weird though how I can prefer one speaker in one room and another speaker in another room. Could be the electronics, could be the room itself, or the positioning of the speakers, I don't know. Still need to do a lot more listening and I'd like the "gee I want my new speakers to sound better" affect to go away before I make a final decision.

For such a small speaker though, those Hawks sure are impressive at first listen. Now I'm thinking about your earlier posts Grandarf how you found the Totems flaws starting to annoy you after awhile. Will the same happen to me in time? I guess we'll see

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post #50 of 1745 Old 11-01-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karr View Post

lucky guy...can you pick-up a pair of Arro's at a&b & send them to me (upstate,NY) at the same deep deep discount?? A&B doesn't ship.

I can check to see if they have any left (were selling them for $650 / pair cdn but I think only had demo's left).

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post #51 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 08:40 AM
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Which color did you get? As for Totem flaws, the reason I much preferred the Hawks to the Arros/Sttafs/Mites/DCs/RMs, is that they have much less noticeable flaws and are a much more complete package than the previous I've only heard Hawks briefly on a couple of occasions, but like I probably said earlier, it's like a merge of Arros/Sttafs, without the (severe) flaws of either. So I think you should be very fine with them! Btw, Sierras aren't flawless either... But for the price, I think that's somewhat expected

Pep, yep, not bad, not bad. Bit weird to see the video with just two people playing music in a large empty room, but the disk is great, definitely recommend for the fans! Definitely my favorite of the disks I bought, Carl was somehow pretty different than the samples, bit more jazzy than I like, classic was classic, good, but not to make me fall on my back, it was ok Pep's "made in italy" has him singing in Italian, definitely very different than his other guitar only records, really not my type of music, but, I can't say that it's not good music, just not my genre. He really shines on acoustic records, "Every Step Of The Way" was just great.

"Grant Fidelity" Blearch! http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...e+Search&meta= They just rebadge equipment and sell them for 2-3x the price. Just buy the original stuff at 1/3 the price instead of giving money to these charlatans. Ian Grant I think the name of the guy is, is quite a piece of work, made himself a fool/ass on a multiple of forums, saying what I think about him would surely get me banned so I won't. But, I'd definitely never buy any of his products.

Fantastic Totem prices... 650 for Arros, could probably buy and resell for profit!
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post #52 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Which color did you get? As for Totem flaws, the reason I much preferred the Hawks to the Arros/Sttafs/Mites/DCs/RMs, is that they have much less noticeable flaws and are a much more complete package than the previous I've only heard Hawks briefly on a couple of occasions, but like I probably said earlier, it's like a merge of Arros/Sttafs, without the (severe) flaws of either. So I think you should be very fine with them! Btw, Sierras aren't flawless either... But for the price, I think that's somewhat expected

Pep, yep, not bad, not bad. Bit weird to see the video with just two people playing music in a large empty room, but the disk is great, definitely recommend for the fans! Definitely my favorite of the disks I bought, Carl was somehow pretty different than the samples, bit more jazzy than I like, classic was classic, good, but not to make me fall on my back, it was ok Pep's "made in italy" has him singing in Italian, definitely very different than his other guitar only records, really not my type of music, but, I can't say that it's not good music, just not my genre. He really shines on acoustic records, "Every Step Of The Way" was just great.

"Grant Fidelity" Blearch! http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...e+Search&meta= They just rebadge equipment and sell them for 2-3x the price. Just buy the original stuff at 1/3 the price instead of giving money to these charlatans. Ian Grant I think the name of the guy is, is quite a piece of work, made himself a fool/ass on a multiple of forums, saying what I think about him would surely get me banned so I won't. But, I'd definitely never buy any of his products.

Fantastic Totem prices... 650 for Arros, could probably buy and resell for profit!

Yeah- he rebadges (his stuff is good though, as long as you get it for the right price ) and yeah, I've read the other stuff on the other forums. Just can't find tube gear at good prices here normally,and he's just down the road if I have any problems with anything.

I'll find that Peppino disc yet, one more place I need to look here in town that should have it (once I get to that side of the city).

Oh, got the 'blue dot'..... not sure if it's better, worse, or the same than the red, greens, yellows, or 'no dots' LOL. Apparently Totem uses them to identify a change in the tweeters.... is that true?

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post #53 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Oh, got the 'blue dot'..... not sure if it's better, worse, or the same than the red, greens, yellows, or 'no dots' LOL. Apparently Totem uses them to identify a change in the tweeters.... is that true?

Huh where did you hear that? No, the dots are an audio tweak, they actually improve the highs, do not at all cost remove the dots, if you do, the highs become shrills and mids become opaque Yeah, think it's the version

For the beaks, that would be one case where a blind test would be great. Blindfold yourself, have someone place or remove the beaks and identify whether the beaks are on/off. Then compare your results vs chance. I'd wager not better chance.

What are the exact effect of the beaks also? They should reflect some high frequencies, but logically, I couldn't see this yielding an improvement... The other benefit they claim is controlling cabinet resonance or something of the kind, but that's just stupid... Given how Totem is so into snake oil, I simply can't see this being any better than their power cables or other bs.... But... For the price you got them though, can't argue!
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post #54 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

I can check to see if they have any left (were selling them for $650 / pair cdn but I think only had demo's left).

I was kidding, I like to buy them here in NY or NJ. The Arro's sound good...but to me, there missing the all important Mid-Bass. Maybe they needed more power.(yamaha 80ch) What about Aperion 4T...anyone compare the Two?
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post #55 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Huh where did you hear that? No, the dots are an audio tweak, they actually improve the highs, do not at all cost remove the dots, if you do, the highs become shrills and mids become opaque Yeah, think it's the version

For the beaks, that would be one case where a blind test would be great. Blindfold yourself, have someone place or remove the beaks and identify whether the beaks are on/off. Then compare your results vs chance. I'd wager not better chance.

What are the exact effect of the beaks also? They should reflect some high frequencies, but logically, I couldn't see this yielding an improvement... The other benefit they claim is controlling cabinet resonance or something of the kind, but that's just stupid... Given how Totem is so into snake oil, I simply can't see this being any better than their power cables or other bs.... But... For the price you got them though, can't argue!

I read that on Canuck audio forums I believe, an older thread (Lex Luger had some comments on it). I don't mean a different tweeter, rather a re-voiced tweeter, or something done to it anyway. I think I'm going to ask Vince. But don't worry, I won't remove them, god forbid they change the sound (though I'm thinking of buying some yellow dots to smooth the sound out more, I hear Staples has them on sale this week ).

As for the beaks - it's funny you mention that as that's what I plan on doing (blind testing). When I say they work, I mean I can 'feel' the vibrations going through them and it does vary depending on where you put them on the cabinet. Does it do anything to the sound... can't tell. They are supposed to give more 'cohesiveness' to the drivers, and as you mention reduce cabinet renosance. I'm pretty postive about the latter (since I can actually feel it) but like I say, I couldn't tell what, if anything, it actually does to the sound. But one thing everyone can agree on, they sure make an interesting conversation piece

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post #56 of 1745 Old 11-02-2008, 12:12 PM
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I was kidding, I like to buy them here in NY or NJ. The Arro's sound good...but to me, there missing the all important Mid-Bass. Maby they needed more power.(yamaha 80ch) What about Aperion 5T...anyone compare the Two?

I really like the Arros, and thought the mid bass was very nice, especially horns (well, upper mid bass anyway). What they really lack is lower end extension and of course SPL's, but I thought they imaged even better than the Hawks when I heard them (I just wouldn't want them for a 2.0 channel system). But for $650, I almost bought those too, I only have so much money though, and with the RXV-3800, the Hawks, and a few half priced Blue Ray and HD-DVD discs (and I don't even own a BR player yet) I pretty much spent my play money and then some.

Unfortunately, they sold out of all their Blue Ray players pretty fast (that's what I went in to buy, that and a receiver, one out of two isn't all that bad I guess).

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post #57 of 1745 Old 11-17-2008, 04:53 PM
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Kpt_Krunch:

I was wondering if you could shed some light for me..or any of you other Totem owners

I am thinking about buying a pair of either Rainmaker, Arro/Dreamcatcher, or Sttaf/Mite (not sure which) for my brother for xmas. He listens to jazz/classical and from what I understand, these are phenomenal speakers for such. My biggest issue is cost, I know they are pricey so I was wondering how the series compare to each other and if it would be more beneficial to go with a bookshelf vs a tower. Another question is how well do these blend with different speakers for HT use? My brother is "cheap" and he would never spend the money on a good pair of speakers but he can appreciate good sound. I ask about HT use because he has a mixture of other speakers he got for free placed as surround. HT isn't crucial for him, mostly music (when he wants HT he comes to my place).
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post #58 of 1745 Old 11-17-2008, 08:17 PM
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pm sent. (IMHO, Arros/RM #1, Mite, Sttaf, DCs... bit risky but great gift ) Mixing might nor may not work so well, depend how different the speakers sound from each other.

Btw kpt, how are the Hawks going? Did that beak blind test?
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post #59 of 1745 Old 11-17-2008, 09:50 PM
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Kpt_Krunch:

I was wondering if you could shed some light for me..or any of you other Totem owners

I am thinking about buying a pair of either Rainmaker, Arro/Dreamcatcher, or Sttaf/Mite (not sure which) for my brother for xmas. He listens to jazz/classical and from what I understand, these are phenomenal speakers for such. My biggest issue is cost, I know they are pricey so I was wondering how the series compare to each other and if it would be more beneficial to go with a bookshelf vs a tower. Another question is how well do these blend with different speakers for HT use? My brother is "cheap" and he would never spend the money on a good pair of speakers but he can appreciate good sound. I ask about HT use because he has a mixture of other speakers he got for free placed as surround. HT isn't crucial for him, mostly music (when he wants HT he comes to my place).

I've only listened to the Arro's, Rainmakers (briefly though with those), Hawks (which I own) and the Sttaf.

I agree with Grandarf below for Arros/RM as your #1 choice, but you'll need a good sub to help in the low end. Also, the Arro's are more of a tall bookshelf and though they sound very very nice (I still can't get over the imaging they do) they are not made for cranking it up. Sounds to me though that that will not be an issue for your brother based on what he likes to hear. I found the Sttaf to be too condensed, that would be a good word for it. A bit muddy in the bass and not as open as the Arros or the Hawks. Not that they're a bad speaker though, just different. Totem is unlike any other speaker manufacturer I know. All their speaker lines use different drivers and crossover which change the sound for each speaker, giving each a unique 'flavour'. This is why some will love one model speaker and totally dislike another. Personally, for h/t use, I'd look at the 'Tribe' series but those are inwall/in-ceiling speakers. Those to me look like Totem's main contender in that market. Though I've never listened to them, nor do I know anyone who has. And based on their various 'flavours' I don't even want to guess how they sound.

If you do get the Arro's for him, make sure you work something out with the salesman since they are being purchased as a gift (a receipt that will allow him to exchange them if need be). I'm sure your brother will enjoy them very much though!

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pm sent. (IMHO, Arros/RM #1, Mite, Sttaf, DCs... bit risky but great gift ) Mixing might nor may not work so well, depend how different the speakers sound from each other.

Btw kpt, how are the Hawks going? Did that beak blind test?

Hey Grandarf, enjoying the Hawks quite a bit. I think they've opened up some since I've been listening to them (and I don't believe in break-in as a rule, but there is more detail in the highs now for sure). Still haven't done the 'beak' blind test yet. However, I really do think there is a difference when you use them. But as I mentioned earlier, and I agree with you 100%, I have to do it blind and do about 20 samples - 10 with, 10 without, and if there is a difference I should be able to score min 80% (this takes the 'chance' out of play).

But with or without, very impressed with these Hawks. Especially the bass. I know now why that Revelator driver is considered one of the best, better detail then the Veritas on the bass side (much better actually) and in the room I have them in it can actually rattle things so they hit pretty darn low for sure.

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post #60 of 1745 Old 01-16-2009, 09:53 AM
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I just purchased a pair of sttaf's from a lady who was moving into an apartment and did not want to take them with her. she bought them new from a dealer in phoenix AZ. she had all the doc's and had opted for the grills.
they were also filled with lead bb's they are very heavy. well they are replacing Infinity primus 252's wow what a difference, I am taking the 252's back to the store.
o'yeah I bought them for 200.00
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