Totem Acoustic Owner's Thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 12:10 PM
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Hi,
I just bought a Dreamcatcher center and was going to get a pair of DC's or Mites for the fronts in anew system. I ran across a pair of Staffs and was wondering how they might sound with that center? I know Arros would be a better match. Any thoughts?
Thanks
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post #752 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterDoubt View Post
Hi,
I just bought a Dreamcatcher center and was going to get a pair of DC's or Mites for the fronts in anew system. I ran across a pair of Staffs and was wondering how they might sound with that center? I know Arros would be a better match. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Some of the Totems are a bit colored in sound certainly true with the Sttaf, all in all they are pretty darn neutral, Rainmakers and Hawks would be your next best choice with the DC center besides Arros and DCs.

All that being said I have mixed Rainmaker center and a Tribe III center with Forests with great success and it was pretty seamless excelpt they are not matched perfectly in phase. Vince will tell you can mix Rainmakers, Hawk DC, Arros and Elements and Tribes. He will also say you can mix Sttaf, Mites, Model One, Forest and Winds together.

Mixing DC and Sttaf will not be so bad.
FYI Mites and Sttaf are in the same Family so whether you mix Sttaf or Mites with the DC center you would pretty much get similar results since you were already looking for a pair of Mites.

Vince on his speakers:


Anthem MRX520, Bryston 6B-SST, Naim NAC 272 and 250 DR , Bel Canto DAC 3.5 VB, Totem Fires L/R Dusk, Totem Tribe III on wall Dusk , Mites Design Surrounds Dusk, JL Audio Fathom F113 Piano Black, Oppo UDP203. Totem Forest Signature High Gloss Mahogany, Dynaudio Contour 30 . BIS Audio, Nordost, Audioquest, Display Panasonic CX-800U 65''

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post #753 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
Some of the Totems are a bit colored in sound certainly true with the Sttaf, all in all they are pretty darn neutral, Rainmakers and Hawks would be your next best choice with the DC center besides Arros and DCs.

All that being said I have mixed Rainmaker center and a Tribe III center with Forests with great success and it was pretty seamless excelpt they are not matched perfectly in phase. Vince will tell you can mix Rainmakers, Hawk DC, Arros and Elements and Tribes. He will also say you can mix Sttaf, Mites, Model One, Forest and Winds together.

Mixing DC and Sttaf will not be so bad.
FYI Mites and Sttaf are in the same Family so whether you mix Sttaf or Mites with the DC center you would pretty much get similar results since you were already looking for a pair of Mites.

Vince on his speakers:

https://youtu.be/dNRSSlQNnBs
What a great reply, BigAl...
Thanks so much for the time and thought.

We have DC's all around for 5.1 at home, and our new cabin has Arros for music and I love them for the room they're in. I could wait on finding another pair, but I'm intrigued by what I've read about the Sttafs. I was thinking Mites because they were available.I'm a musician and will listen to music in this room, too, so different flavor speaker s good for my ears. And this room could use larger speakers than the DC's. Good to know all my options are open.

Oh, the room came with a projection screen and surroun and rear Yamaha 3 way ceiling speakers. I'm not at all sure how they will blend, but they sound surprisingly decent.
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post #754 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 05:33 PM
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What a great reply, BigAl...
Thanks so much for the time and thought.

We have DC's all around for 5.1 at home, and our new cabin has Arros for music and I love them for the room they're in. I could wait on finding another pair, but I'm intrigued by what I've read about the Sttafs. I was thinking Mites because they were available.I'm a musician and will listen to music in this room, too, so different flavor speaker s good for my ears. And this room could use larger speakers than the DC's. Good to know all my options are open.

Oh, the room came with a projection screen and surroun and rear Yamaha 3 way ceiling speakers. I'm not at all sure how they will blend, but they sound surprisingly decent.
I am from Mtl Metro , their Rep sold me my first pair of Totems some cherry Rainmaker but he was not their rep at the time he was working for an Hi-fi shop selling Totems at the time so I know them fairly good I can say

No worries you will be surprise in HT setup how the Sttaf will blend with the DC center and you well know how well the DC-C mixes with DCs and it mixes just as good with the Arro but seriously the Sttaf will not be horrible and should surprisingly blend in pretty well.

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post #755 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 05:55 PM
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Thanks,
I suppose I would be a bit more enthusiastic with a stronger recommendation than "not horrible", but that helps : )

Are the Staffs worth an extra $400. Or so?
I suppose that'll be up to me, though...
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post #756 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 06:15 PM
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Thanks,
I suppose I would be a bit more enthusiastic with a stronger recommendation than "not horrible", but that helps : )

Are the Staffs worth an extra $400. Or so?
I suppose that'll be up to me, though...
You know I am putting this in a sarcastic way and i do not wish to set your expectation to high, all that to say they will blend in very good but the Arro and DCs are the absolute best match , I had a pair of Energy C-500 and C-C100 center at some point and I am sure the Sttaf, DC-C combo will blend better than my Energy did even coming from the same line.

Now as for the 400$ extra I would say this only depends on preferences, they cost 400$ more strictly on material I suppose, they are just different, the Arro is more audiophile if you ask me but the Staff is just all together a great all rounder and forgiving speaker. The Sttaf will have better air displacement which is always appreciated in larger room, they will rock better also even if their forte is alos vocals and imaging.

I would say for Female vocals, Jazz and Accoustic guitars, I would pick the Arro over the Sttaf but if you wish to listen to a wider variety of music then the Sttaf may very well be the more logical choice.

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post #757 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 07:09 PM
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Pretty much what I've heard about them. The hard thing is that I don't have a way to audition them - I've trusted others and was very glad I did. Friends and colleagues are always surprised.
I'm a singer/songwriter, so the Arro/DC line fit, but I listen to everything.
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post #758 of 1884 Old 03-02-2016, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
Just in terms of air displacement the Rainmaker will move more air, how big is your room Alfred?

)
It's about 15 x 30. Living room with a shared small dining area. Speaker set up at the shortest dimensions of the room.
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post #759 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 12:57 AM
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It's about 15 x 30. Living room with a shared small dining area. Speaker set up at the shortest dimensions of the room.
In this case i would go for Rainmakers vs the Arro. even larger would be better but that depends on budget.

For your room size I would pick at least a Forest if you could afford it sorry

Hawk is also much better at filling a room this size and is the natural upgrade path to the Arro so if you can step it up to the Hawk i think it would be your best compromise but they don't come cheap at $3200 I think.

Since you are sitting at the shortest dimension of the room, I assume you will be sitting around 10 feet away from the speakers?


Do you have a max budget you are working with?

Anthem MRX520, Bryston 6B-SST, Naim NAC 272 and 250 DR , Bel Canto DAC 3.5 VB, Totem Fires L/R Dusk, Totem Tribe III on wall Dusk , Mites Design Surrounds Dusk, JL Audio Fathom F113 Piano Black, Oppo UDP203. Totem Forest Signature High Gloss Mahogany, Dynaudio Contour 30 . BIS Audio, Nordost, Audioquest, Display Panasonic CX-800U 65''

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post #760 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 01:00 AM
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Pretty much what I've heard about them. The hard thing is that I don't have a way to audition them - I've trusted others and was very glad I did. Friends and colleagues are always surprised.
I'm a singer/songwriter, so the Arro/DC line fit, but I listen to everything.
In this case don't overthink this, the Sttaf will be great for that matter, the best with the Forest for an all rounder although their are other brands of speaker that have even better choices for multi purpose speakers .

Anthem MRX520, Bryston 6B-SST, Naim NAC 272 and 250 DR , Bel Canto DAC 3.5 VB, Totem Fires L/R Dusk, Totem Tribe III on wall Dusk , Mites Design Surrounds Dusk, JL Audio Fathom F113 Piano Black, Oppo UDP203. Totem Forest Signature High Gloss Mahogany, Dynaudio Contour 30 . BIS Audio, Nordost, Audioquest, Display Panasonic CX-800U 65''
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post #761 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 05:25 AM
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What a great reply, BigAl...
Thanks so much for the time and thought.

We have DC's all around for 5.1 at home, and our new cabin has Arros for music and I love them for the room they're in. I could wait on finding another pair, but I'm intrigued by what I've read about the Sttafs. I was thinking Mites because they were available.I'm a musician and will listen to music in this room, too, so different flavor speaker s good for my ears. And this room could use larger speakers than the DC's. Good to know all my options are open.

Oh, the room came with a projection screen and surroun and rear Yamaha 3 way ceiling speakers. I'm not at all sure how they will blend, but they sound surprisingly decent.
I heard the Arro and the Sttafs during the same audition and to me the Sttaf was a much better speaker. The bass of the Arro surprises you at first because you think wow that from a small small speaker,
But once you hear the Sttaf and go back I couldnt think why I'd want anything but the Sttaf. I ended up going a different direction then totem all together but I enjoyed the Sttaf quite a bit.

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post #762 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
In this case don't overthink this, the Sttaf will be great for that matter, the best with the Forest for an all rounder although their are other brands of speaker that have even better choices for multi purpose speakers .
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I heard the Arro and the Sttafs during the same audition and to me the Sttaf was a much better speaker. The bass of the Arro surprises you at first because you think wow that from a small small speaker,
But once you hear the Sttaf and go back I couldnt think why I'd want anything but the Sttaf. I ended up going a different direction then totem all together but I enjoyed the Sttaf quite a bit.
Callas, thanks - that helps quite a bit.
And you, too, BigAl, of course. Overthink? Me? : ). I was going to go to a different brand until I got a deal on the DC ctr. Figure it'll be easier to stay with a Totem that would work.
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In this case i would go for Rainmakers vs the Arro. even larger would be better but that depends on budget.

For your room size I would pick at least a Forest if you could afford it sorry

Hawk is also much better at filling a room this size and is the natural upgrade path to the Arro so if you can step it up to the Hawk i think it would be your best compromise but they don't come cheap at $3200 I think.
Will the 'other' speakers you recommended have easy placement in the room as the Arros? Will they also 'disappear' easily?
I should mention also that one speaker will be in the corner. I'd like to keep my budget under $2k, used is fine with me also.

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post #764 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 10:01 AM
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Will the 'other' speakers you recommended have easy placement in the room as the Arros? Will they also 'disappear' easily?
I should mention also that one speaker will be in the corner. I'd like to keep my budget under $2k, used is fine with me also.
Totem are know to have easy placement in the room but if you room is very live with bare walls it might be difficult to place them of course, but for any other speaker in their lineup you will have to give them more than 6 inches from the back wall.

I would use 4 inch thick accoustic panel to attenuate the bass, Totems has also the possibility of mass loading to tame down the bass a little. If your dealer is near by, I would recommend a in house audition with one of them. Dissapear is what Totem does best as long as you have the placement right and the room treated you should be ok and since you first point of reflection should be pretty far from te speaker, i don't see the sound bouncing off the wall as much.

The Sttaf could be another consideration, just saying I have owned over 5 pairs of Totem from Mites, Rainmaker, Forests, Forest Signature, Fires and more recently Mite-Ts and they all image beautifully and they all disappear in my room at least.

I suggest you look at all their possibilities here in terms of mass loading and placement.

https://totemacoustic.com/en/support

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post #765 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterDoubt View Post
Callas, thanks - that helps quite a bit.
And you, too, BigAl, of course. Overthink? Me? : ). I was going to go to a different brand until I got a deal on the DC ctr. Figure it'll be easier to stay with a Totem that would work.
I know Callas pretty well,, the better speaker of the 2 is the Sttaf as ne mentioned, better all-rounder better air displacement and nearly as great for imaging and vocals but what the Arro does in a small room is quite phenomenal and if I would strictly listen to Jazz vocals in a 12x12 room I would pick the Arro over the Sttaf as I mentioned.

The Arro does have something magical to them, that little je ne sais quoi but the Sttaf will fulfill your expectations I have no doubt and since you listen to a wide variety of music then the Sttaf is definitely he ticket to your happiness

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post #766 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 10:43 AM
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The Arro does have something magical to them, that little je ne sais quoi but the Sttaf will fulfill your expectations I have no doubt and since you listen to a wide variety of music then the Sttaf is definitely he ticket to your happiness
The Arro's were the first Totem speakers I listened to a few years ago at a local dealer. I think the magic you're referring to, and that a lot of people refer to, is the suspension of belief that occurs when you hear how big and lush a sound comes from such a diminutive speaker. Not to take anything from their sound -- they do sound great -- but I also think the sound is heightened when contrasted with their appearance. I remember my initial reaction when the dealer was setting them up (I told him I was looking for a small tower I could play without a sub). I was thinking "why is he showing me these and how could they even play anything below maybe 60hz?" Then the music started and I thought it must have been April Fool's Day or something and the dealer must have had a sub on somewhere. It's quite surprising how deep these little speakers play, and how big and dynamic a soundstage they present. However, I do think they're a bit of a niche speaker (I guess all speakers are in some way). I wouldn't put them in a room much larger than 150-200 sq ft. I also wouldn't expect them to be played loudly. However, if you're looking for an articulate sounding, diminutive floorstander for a smaller room to be played at moderate levels the Arro's are fantastic. You can also often find them for under $800 used, which makes them even a better value. I've also been interested in the Silverline Prelude and Prelude Plus speakers as they also have a very small footprint, but may be more dynamic and efficient with the extra driver and larger cabinet (mainly due to height), but I've never heard them or heard much about them.
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post #767 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 11:07 AM
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The Arro's were the first Totem speakers I listened to a few years ago at a local dealer. I think the magic you're referring to, and that a lot of people refer to, is the suspension of belief that occurs when you hear how big and lush a sound comes from such a diminutive speaker. Not to take anything from their sound -- they do sound great -- but I also think the sound is heightened when contrasted with their appearance. I remember my initial reaction when the dealer was setting them up (I told him I was looking for a small tower I could play without a sub). I was thinking "why is he showing me these and how could they even play anything below maybe 60hz?" Then the music started and I thought it must have been April Fool's Day or something and the dealer must have had a sub on somewhere. It's quite surprising how deep these little speakers play, and how big and dynamic a soundstage they present. However, I do think they're a bit of a niche speaker (I guess all speakers are in some way). I wouldn't put them in a room much larger than 150-200 sq ft. I also wouldn't expect them to be played loudly. However, if you're looking for an articulate sounding, diminutive floorstander for a smaller room to be played at moderate levels the Arro's are fantastic. You can also often find them for under $800 used, which makes them even a better value. I've also been interested in the Silverline Prelude and Prelude Plus speakers as they also have a very small footprint, but may be more dynamic and efficient with the extra driver and larger cabinet (mainly due to height), but I've never heard them or heard much about them.

You nailed it right on the head

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The Arro's were the first Totem speakers I listened to a few years ago at a local dealer. I think the magic you're referring to, and that a lot of people refer to, is the suspension of belief that occurs when you hear how big and lush a sound comes from such a diminutive speaker. Not to take anything from their sound -- they do sound great -- but I also think the sound is heightened when contrasted with their appearance. I remember my initial reaction when the dealer was setting them up (I told him I was looking for a small tower I could play without a sub). I was thinking "why is he showing me these and how could they even play anything below maybe 60hz?" Then the music started and I thought it must have been April Fool's Day or something and the dealer must have had a sub on somewhere. It's quite surprising how deep these little speakers play, and how big and dynamic a soundstage they present. However, I do think they're a bit of a niche speaker (I guess all speakers are in some way). I wouldn't put them in a room much larger than 150-200 sq ft. I also wouldn't expect them to be played loudly. However, if you're looking for an articulate sounding, diminutive floorstander for a smaller room to be played at moderate levels the Arro's are fantastic. You can also often find them for under $800 used, which makes them even a better value. I've also been interested in the Silverline Prelude and Prelude Plus speakers as they also have a very small footprint, but may be more dynamic and efficient with the extra driver and larger cabinet (mainly due to height), but I've never heard them or heard much about them.
Exactly right, and what grabbed my attention, unintentionally at my local dealer! I was astonished at the incredible sound coming out of all of these smaller speakers that I otherwise would not have thought to pay much mind to - the complete line from the Mite to the Hawk all displayed in one area - a very large, open area I might add, and just stunning to my ears. I have now heard the entire lineup of Totem speakers (except the Tribes) and they do not disappoint. It was also a pleasant surprise to listen to a pair of Element Metals really outdo a pair of B&W Diamond 803s at a much higher retail, especially in the bass. I know, totally different animal than the Arro and family, but it really speaks to the overall brand in my humble opinion and what goes into them.

Although I did not acquire them as a first set of speakers, there is a pair of Forest Sigs in my future.
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post #769 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 12:14 PM
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Anyone compare them( Arros or Rainmaker) with the Sonus Faber Toy series?
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post #770 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
Totem are know to have easy placement in the room but if you room is very live with bare walls it might be difficult to place them of course, but for any other speaker in their lineup you will have to give them more than 6 inches from the back wall.

I would use 4 inch thick accoustic panel to attenuate the bass, Totems has also the possibility of mass loading to tame down the bass a little. If your dealer is near by, I would recommend a in house audition with one of them. Dissapear is what Totem does best as long as you have the placement right and the room treated you should be ok and since you first point of reflection should be pretty far from te speaker, i don't see the sound bouncing off the wall as much.

The Sttaf could be another consideration, just saying I have owned over 5 pairs of Totem from Mites, Rainmaker, Forests, Forest Signature, Fires and more recently Mite-Ts and they all image beautifully and they all disappear in my room at least.

I suggest you look at all their possibilities here in terms of mass loading and placement.

https://totemacoustic.com/en/support
Thanks for all your valuable input. I'll listen to them this weekend at a dealer. on a side note, will adding a good powered sub change your opinion in putting the Arros in a slightly larger than 12x12 room.

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post #771 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfred143 View Post
Thanks for all your valuable input. I'll listen to them this weekend at a dealer. on a side note, will adding a good powered sub change your opinion in putting the Arros in a slightly larger than 12x12 room.
Adding a sub will certainly help. I think something sealed like an SVS SB-1000 or SB-2000 would work great with these. However, blending a sub isn't always easy to do and if your room is just slightly larger than 12x12 you may not need to with the Arros. I'd probably use the $$ on a strong amp, or integrated, instead of a sub initially and add a sub later if needed. A nice amp won't help the speakers go deeper like a sub, but it will help control the speaker more which could help the speaker sound more dynamic and lively. What are you planning on using for amplification?
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post #772 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 03:27 PM
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What are you planning on using for amplification?
I have a Mcintosh amp and a REL T7 sub on hand.
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I have a Mcintosh amp and a REL T7 sub on hand.
I think you've got it covered then.
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post #774 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfred143 View Post
It's about 15 x 30. Living room with a shared small dining area. Speaker set up at the shortest dimensions of the room.
Your room is about the size of mine. Mines a vaulted ceiling open to a staircase. When my room was untreated it small speakers sounded pretty big, but a lot was due to reflections, as I've added room treatments and a thick rug, it's tamed the room and smaller speakers sound smaller. I'd honestly suggest something with dual woofers. Unfortunately totem doesn't have something like that, but Dynaudio Excite X34s or Scansonic MB2.5 would give you more output. Both are small speakers but with good bass and output.

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post #775 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfred143 View Post
Thanks for all your valuable input. I'll listen to them this weekend at a dealer. on a side note, will adding a good powered sub change your opinion in putting the Arros in a slightly larger than 12x12 room.
Not a problem up to 150-225 square feet with standard 8 foot cieling so 15x15 is still good ,, it might also depend how far you sit from them. I just feel you have a very large room to fill, the Straf maybe a slightly better option, just go out there and listen to the entire lineup if you can, try to arrange with the dealer if you can do in home audition you pay the speakers in full and if you like them you get to keep them or else bring them back. within 10 days. spending that kind of money speakers, they have to accommodate you.

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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Your room is about the size of mine. Mines a vaulted ceiling open to a staircase. When my room was untreated it small speakers sounded pretty big, but a lot was due to reflections, as I've added room treatments and a thick rug, it's tamed the room and smaller speakers sound smaller. I'd honestly suggest something with dual woofers. Unfortunately totem doesn't have something like that, but Dynaudio Excite X34s or Scansonic MB2.5 would give you more output. Both are small speakers but with good bass and output.
The forest would fill that room no problem depends how loud you want to go. don't forget the setup is on the short side of the room so he'll be no more than 10 feet from the speakers the way i see this, also what will be taking the big part of the bass is a Rel Sub so please let go of your Dynaudios

From what I recall you have listen to the Arros in a less than favorable environment

You forget they have the Metals with dual woofer and I would put the Fires in your room hands down and it would fill it no problem, I have heard them on 600 watts Classe monos in an even larger room than yours at the show in Montreal and they fill the room no problem.

The Fires have a 1 inch in and out throw 7,5 inches woofer rated at a 7 inch woofer. Trust me even comparing to the Forest the Forest is not even close to moving as much aire than the Fires, I'd be curious to compare to the 260 but my dealer has sold his last pair.

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Olivier, the Metals and Earth are waaaayyy outta his price range and I have yet to see a pair on agon. I did see the Fires once. So going used would still be a challenge. I heard the Arros, Sttafs and Excite X16s in my dealers ht cove in his large room. Basically there's 3 walls, the left wall is about 54" tall. Tall enough to hide most speakers behind but you can see over it when you're standing. It's about 10 ft wide and 14 ft deep. The Sttafs I heard 3 different times. The other 2 were in the big room, once against the 54" wall about 1 ft off it, the other time in wide open space. The bass response of the X32s and Sttafs were at completely different levels due to the added woofers ability to play louder with more output.

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Olivier, the Metals and Earth are waaaayyy outta his price range and I have yet to see a pair on agon. I did see the Fires once. So going used would still be a challenge. I heard the Arros, Sttafs and Excite X16s in my dealers ht cove in his large room. Basically there's 3 walls, the left wall is about 54" tall. Tall enough to hide most speakers behind but you can see over it when you're standing. It's about 10 ft wide and 14 ft deep. The Sttafs I heard 3 different times. The other 2 were in the big room, once against the 54" wall about 1 ft off it, the other time in wide open space. The bass response of the X32s and Sttafs were at completely different levels due to the added woofers ability to play louder with more output.
I don't doubt that one second I have heard x-34 vs the Sttaf here at my dealer and honestly the X-34 is way out of the Sttaf league but here it's twice the price almost and back then the X-32 retailed at 1.5 time the price of the Sttaf X-32 was in the price range of Hawk and now the X-34 plays in the price range of a Forest so it's still not a very good comparison unless compared with Hawks or Forests which out both ay better than the Sttaf in term of air displacement.
Not everyone want speakers as tall as the 260 but true Dali and Dynaudio offer alternatives with small floor stander with dual 5 inch woofers and Scansonic too.

I was just pointing out the Metals have 2 woofers.

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Here in the US the Sttafs are $2100 and the X34s are $2800. Both that much of a price difference.

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post #780 of 1884 Old 03-03-2016, 09:33 PM
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Here in the US the Sttafs are $2100 and the X34s are $2800. Both that much of a price difference.
Yeah starting to make sense to consider X-34 over a pair of Sttaf but again the Hawk is called the hawk for a reason and the long throw woofer can move a lot more air than the Sttaf and the Scan Speak (Danish) driver is way better than the Tonsil (Polish) on the Sttaf and tweeter is also way better than the Sttaf tweeter product and not to mentioned your beloved 6db per octave 1rst order x-over of the Hawk. Hawk is close to the price range of the X-34 in the US at 3K if I am not mistaken.

Here no way Jose you can't compare prices of the Sttaf and X-34. Just compare them to the Forest and it's a whole different ball game. Really starting to be confusing with our dollar being so low vs the USD .

Still amazing Totem is keeping the prices down in Canada

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