The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 324 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9691 of 10058 Old 06-04-2016, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by blackangst View Post
OK...I cant wait. Im still in my apartment until this fall but I gotta have my Salks! Just got off the phone with Jim, and ordered the Song3's in Satin Black. I just very well own the first pair lol

Super excited!
Congrats on the Salk purchase. I love my Salks more and more as time passes. Hard part is waiting once you place the order!
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post #9692 of 10058 Old 06-05-2016, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by blackangst View Post
OK...I cant wait. Im still in my apartment until this fall but I gotta have my Salks! Just got off the phone with Jim, and ordered the Song3's in Satin Black. I just very well own the first pair lol

Super excited!
I heard these yesterday at THE Show and for the $ they were good. You should be pleased.
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post #9693 of 10058 Old 06-05-2016, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by blackangst View Post
OK...I cant wait. Im still in my apartment until this fall but I gotta have my Salks! Just got off the phone with Jim, and ordered the Song3's in Satin Black. I just very well own the first pair lol
Congrats on your purchase! As a happy SongTower owner since 2007, nearly 9 years, I'm rather confident that you'll too have a man crush on them when you first hear them. The Song 3s seem to be worthy step up.

About a week ago, I ordered a pair of Veracity ST speakers. Even though I have STs to listen to, I'm excited too. I eagerly look forward to seeing & hearing them.
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post #9694 of 10058 Old 06-05-2016, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by R Swerdlow View Post
Congrats on your purchase! As a happy SongTower owner since 2007, nearly 9 years, I'm rather confident that you'll too have a man crush on them when you first hear them. The Song 3s seem to be worthy step up.

About a week ago, I ordered a pair of Veracity ST speakers. Even though I have STs to listen to, I'm excited too. I eagerly look forward to seeing & hearing them.
Those Veracity's are wicked from what Ive read...Im sure they'll put a big smile on your face

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I heard these yesterday at THE Show and for the $ they were good. You should be pleased.
Man Im jelly!

And thanks everyone for the welcome to the Salk family Im really excited. The Song3's should be a HUGE upgrade from my Polk RTi10's.
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post #9695 of 10058 Old 06-06-2016, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by blackangst View Post
OK...I cant wait. Im still in my apartment until this fall but I gotta have my Salks! Just got off the phone with Jim, and ordered the Song3's in Satin Black. I just very well own the first pair lol

Super excited!
Jim did come back to the room looking pretty happy saying he sold a pair of the Song3 at the show this weekend.

I'll beat you to delivery though. I decided I wanted to take that pair of beautiful Claro Walnut Song3 home after the show. They're awaiting setup in my probably undersized but eagerly waiting living room hopefully this evening after work.

I'm super excited to have my first pair of tower speakers.
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post #9696 of 10058 Old 06-06-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by David Aldrich View Post
Jim did come back to the room looking pretty happy saying he sold a pair of the Song3 at the show this weekend.

I'll beat you to delivery though. I decided I wanted to take that pair of beautiful Claro Walnut Song3 home after the show. They're awaiting setup in my probably undersized but eagerly waiting living room hopefully this evening after work.

I'm super excited to have my first pair of tower speakers.
NICE! I saw the pics of those from the show and thought "someone's gonna buy those!" haha

You know what the worst part of ordering Salks is? That damned update page. I officially ordered them last week WHY AM I CLICKING THE BUTTON TODAY???!!!!
@jsalk I love and hate you for that feature!

edit: WELCOME to AVS David! Just saw thats your first post Stepped right into the big boys playpen!
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post #9697 of 10058 Old 06-06-2016, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by David Aldrich View Post
Jim did come back to the room looking pretty happy saying he sold a pair of the Song3 at the show this weekend.

I'll beat you to delivery though. I decided I wanted to take that pair of beautiful Claro Walnut Song3 home after the show. They're awaiting setup in my probably undersized but eagerly waiting living room hopefully this evening after work.

I'm super excited to have my first pair of tower speakers.
So I take it you liked them. I was happy with the way they sounded at Axpona, but the room was a little funky. How were the acoustics in the Newport room?
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post #9698 of 10058 Old 06-06-2016, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
So I take it you liked them. I was happy with the way they sounded at Axpona, but the room was a little funky. How were the acoustics in the Newport room?
I think the acoustics were good, but not great. A solid speaker for sure, highs and mids were excellent, one track showed off its deepest bass kinda rattling the room just a little, but personally, I felt the mid-bass was a little lost during my 30 minutes in the room.
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post #9699 of 10058 Old 06-06-2016, 08:04 PM
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I think the acoustics were good, but not great. A solid speaker for sure, highs and mids were excellent, one track showed off its deepest bass kinda rattling the room just a little, but personally, I felt the mid-bass was a little lost during my 30 minutes in the room.
Hmmm Interesting. My main problem with the sound at Axpona was also in the midbass, but I found it fuller than I liked, which seemed to be a room issue. That is an area were room augmentations and cancellations are most likely to occur.
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post #9700 of 10058 Old 06-07-2016, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by blackangst View Post
NICE! I saw the pics of those from the show and thought "someone's gonna buy those!" haha

You know what the worst part of ordering Salks is? That damned update page. I officially ordered them last week WHY AM I CLICKING THE BUTTON TODAY???!!!!
I love and hate you for that feature!

edit: WELCOME to AVS David! Just saw thats your first post Stepped right into the big boys playpen!
Thank you for the welcome, how could I resist stepping up to the playpen when Jim offers such a great way to get in to speakers. I figured if I own a couple of pairs of $1700 headphones I should own a good pair of speakers and the Song3 do everything those headphones can do any much more. The only caveat is I'm not the only one listening to them when they're on and I like late evening relaxation sessions to finish up the days work and prepare myself for sleep.

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So I take it you liked them. I was happy with the way they sounded at Axpona, but the room was a little funky. How were the acoustics in the Newport room?
Very happy with them Dennis. I'm very glad Jim took me up when I asked him to bring a pair of speakers to T.H.E. Show to demo in our room (what good is an amp and DAC without a good pair of speakers).

I didn't spend a lot of time auditioning other rooms (had to babysit our room puppy) but of what I heard nothing impressed me (or even sounded better to me) than our room. (Again small sample size)

My only complaint almost certainly stems from the long narrow room, throwing of the imaging a bit, the sound was a localized and I could still hear the speakers. I'm attributing that mostly to the dimensions of the room but I can confirm once I get them setup at home hopefully today since yesterday got busy and late. That being said the actual response of the speakers was fantastic and really meshes with what I like in a transducer system. I was getting pretty tired by day three and I could relax to the point of dozing off with the system we had at the show which to me is a great achievement.

I had a few people drop their jaws and have their eyes widen when they learned that we did no DSP or room correction and didn't do any room treatment beyond a rear banner wall and closing the curtains on the window.

Very happy with the turn out, can't wait for RMAF, we'll get some more press information out there next time.
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post #9701 of 10058 Old 06-08-2016, 01:29 PM
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Thank you for the welcome, how could I resist stepping up to the playpen when Jim offers such a great way to get in to speakers. I figured if I own a couple of pairs of $1700 headphones I should own a good pair of speakers and the Song3 do everything those headphones can do any much more. The only caveat is I'm not the only one listening to them when they're on and I like late evening relaxation sessions to finish up the days work and prepare myself for sleep.

Very happy with the turn out, can't wait for RMAF, we'll get some more press information out there next time.
Welcome to the Salk family. Those are some great looking speakers and I'll bet they sound as good as they look.

It's nice to see the Salk name get a bit of a buzz over at Head-fi and SBAF, usually there's not much talk of loudspeakers over there. A whole new demographic is being exposed to the Salk name, which means great new opportunities for Jim. Kudos to whoever initiated the Salk/Schiit pairing (was that you?).

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post #9702 of 10058 Old 06-09-2016, 09:34 AM
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Welcome to the Salk family. Those are some great looking speakers and I'll bet they sound as good as they look.

It's nice to see the Salk name get a bit of a buzz over at Head-fi and SBAF, usually there's not much talk of loudspeakers over there. A whole new demographic is being exposed to the Salk name, which means great new opportunities for Jim. Kudos to whoever initiated the Salk/Schiit pairing (was that you?).
Thank you, they do indeed sound as good as they look.

I did make the call to Jim and set up to have him share a room with us at Newport. Very glad I did.
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post #9703 of 10058 Old 06-11-2016, 10:51 PM
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FYI, Just saw this on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/...day_june_13th/
So, this Monday, Jim Salk of Salk Sound has graciously accepted to participate in an AMA here in /r/audiophile. When? Monday, June 13th, but no fixed starting time is set, so it is whenever he wants to get the show started.
(This post is just an announcement, and is therefore locked. Please save your questions for monday)
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post #9704 of 10058 Old 06-12-2016, 12:53 PM
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What is an AMA? Edit: looks like it stands for Ask Me Anything

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #9705 of 10058 Old 06-12-2016, 02:06 PM
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What is an AMA? Edit: looks like it stands for Ask Me Anything
and gets a TON of exposure
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post #9706 of 10058 Old 06-20-2016, 01:31 PM
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Thanks to everyone who participated in the AMA. I answered questions for 12 hours straight and a few move over the next couple days. It was great fun and hopefully was an interesting read.

Thanks again,

- Jim

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post #9707 of 10058 Old 06-20-2016, 07:43 PM
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a few questions to y'all

why no freq curve under 200hz ?

any more audio shows/expos for 2016 in California ?

is there a grill for song3 (or pictures what it'd look like)?

does the RAAL restrict off-axis response ? (i dont sit for hours to listen to the music)
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post #9708 of 10058 Old 06-21-2016, 07:50 AM
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a few questions to y'all

why no freq curve under 200hz ?
Which graph are you looking at?

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any more audio shows/expos for 2016 in California ?
I cant answer this. Jim may know, Google probably knows.

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is there a grill for song3 (or pictures what it'd look like)?
Yes there is. Jim answered this question a couple of pages back https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post43165730

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does the RAAL restrict off-axis response ? (i dont sit for hours to listen to the music)
Jim and other who have his RAAL speakers have said off axis response is very good.
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post #9709 of 10058 Old 06-21-2016, 07:50 AM
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why no freq curve under 200hz?
In most rooms found in homes, bass frequencies below roughly 250 Hz, are greatly affected by the distances between floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-opposite-wall as well as the locations of the speaker and the measuring microphone. It can be measured, but it looks ugly because the floor-ceiling and wall-wall bounces can create LARGE peaks and valleys. It is entirely due to the effects of the room dimensions and not the speakers.

If you have a very expensive anechoic room, you can avoid most these measurement problems. The frequency response (FR) curves shown by SoundStageNetwork are done in a true anechoic room by the Canadian National Research Council. The FR curves published in speaker reviews by Stereophile do not use an anechoic room, but they do make an effort to separately measure bass responses while avoiding most of the ugly measurement artifacts. It requires some graphic splicing.

So, as a result, Jim Salk chooses to avoid all this by omitting frequencies below 200 Hz. In my experience, his speakers do not generate exaggerated bass, and if anything, his estimates of bass response are rather conservative.

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any more audio shows/expos for 2016 in California?
Probably not, but you should ask Jim Salk to be sure.

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is there a grill for song3 (or pictures what it'd look like)?
All Salk speakers that I know of come with grills. But I haven't seen any photos of grills for the Song3. Again, ask Jim. He responds here, and to emails and phone calls.

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does the RAAL restrict off-axis response?
Not so you would notice it. Most or all of the internet chatter about ribbon speakers having a narrow off-axis response is in my opinion exaggerated. The RAAL's horizontal dimension is what determines horizontal off-axis performance, and it's larger vertical dimensions determine vertical off-axis performance. So for horizontal off-axis, the RAAL is narrow enough for this to be a non-issue.

Besides, the Song3 is a 3-way speaker. The upper mid range is handled by the 4" cone mid driver. I'm not certain, but if I remember correctly, the mid-to-tweeter crossover frequency is about 5 kHz. That mid driver's off-axis performance will be predominantly what you hear as you move about the room.

Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy are highly aware how important off-axis performance is for good sound and good image presentation. I've never heard any of their speakers that didn't excel at this.
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post #9710 of 10058 Old 06-21-2016, 07:52 AM
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a few questions to y'all

why no freq curve under 200hz ?
This requires a long and complicated answer. But basically, without a mega-expensive anechoic chamber, you can't generate accurate measurements below 200Hz. At that point, the wavelengths are sufficiently long so that you are measuring the room as well as the speakers. You can take other types of measurements (near-field, ground-plane) and paste them together, but that presents issues as well.

Computer modeling of the drivers provides us with very accurate predictions of the response under 200Hz. So we know that in an anechoic chamber the measurements would mirror the modeling down to the F3 of the design (-3db down point in the bass region).

In any case, the most critical performance characteristics are the midrange accuracy and performance in the crossover region(s). These are above 200Hz so those measurements provide all the information that is of critical interest.

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any more audio shows/expos for 2016 in California ?
We just returned from THE SHOW in Newport. No other CA shows are planned for 2016.

Quote:
is there a grill for song3 (or pictures what it'd look like)?
Grills are standard with most all of our speakers. There are magnets placed under the surface of the speaker and in the grill frames themselves. So you just place the grills close to their final position and they snap into place. When they are removed, you would never know they were there and there are no ugly plastic stand-offs you see in many other speakers.

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does the RAAL restrict off-axis response ? (i dont sit for hours to listen to the music)
A ribbon tweeter will not have quite the off-axis response of a dome tweeter. But modern ribbons have extremely good horizontal off-axis response and only slightly limited vertical off-axis response. Even this is a non-issue, however, unless you listen to music lying on the floor or near the ceiling. When you are doing critical listening, you are normally seated in the sweet spot. When doing casual listening, any difference in off-axis response will generally be a non-factor. We have been shipping ribbon tweeter based speakers for over ten years and I don't recall ever receiving a complaint regarding off-axis response.

- Jim
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post #9711 of 10058 Old 07-04-2016, 11:44 AM
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I'll get some pictures of my Song3 with grill (the pair shown on the Salk website) They look quite nice.

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Originally Posted by bulls View Post
a few questions to y'all

why no freq curve under 200hz ?

any more audio shows/expos for 2016 in California ?

is there a grill for song3 (or pictures what it'd look like)?

does the RAAL restrict off-axis response ? (i dont sit for hours to listen to the music)
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post #9712 of 10058 Old 07-05-2016, 08:01 AM
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We had not anticipated attending THE Show in Newport this year. But a few weeks before the show, we received a call from Schiit Audio asking if we would be willing to supply speakers for their room. The amp they intended to use was actually a headphone amp that put out 60 watts. So we had some reservations at first. But then we thought, what the heck, it would be a chance to show our new Song3 design on the West Coast and meet a lot of great Schiit Audio people.

The reaction was extremely positive with more than one attendee thinking the speakers were a bit overpriced at $28,995 per pair! They were stunned when we asked them to move the decimal point to $2,895 per pair.

Here are the comments from Larry Cox in the Positive Feedback show report...

Schiit, Schiit and Salk. Lots of good Schiit here. Schiit's Ragnorak integrated amplifier (1,699) and Schiit Yggdrasil DAC ($2,299) and Salk Song3 ($2,895) speakers were amongst the least expensive systems that had me think... would have bought this and stopped my trek toward nirvana - I'd have said "close enough." So close in performance to systems whose cost will bankrupt most. This system could be an inexpensive starter system that morphs into a "done!" system. By "done!" I mean out of audio stores and off to record stores/downloaded media. I had read about Salk speakers, but hadn't heard them before, but they, too, were good Schiit or is it good s... ?

Great fun...

- Jim

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post #9713 of 10058 Old 07-05-2016, 08:33 AM
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Snapped a couple of pics before work. Nothing fancy but it shows the design.
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post #9714 of 10058 Old 07-05-2016, 10:27 AM
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Snapped a couple of pics before work. Nothing fancy but it shows the design.

What are you using to drive them with?
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post #9715 of 10058 Old 07-05-2016, 01:31 PM
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What are you using to drive them with?
Schiit Ragnarok off a Schiit Yggdrasil (same from the show)
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post #9716 of 10058 Old 07-12-2016, 11:54 AM
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Mark recently requested a pair of Exotica Monitors. But in this case, his request was for a RAAL ribbon tweeter rather than the standard Seas Exotic T35 tweeter. Since the RAAL tweeters were sensitive enough for this, we went ahead with the project.

Here are the results...



As you would expect, the top end of this 92db sensitive design is very open, extended and transparent. A really nice combination.

Happy listening Mark!

- Jim

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post #9717 of 10058 Old 07-12-2016, 12:07 PM
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Gorgeous as usual...

Do the woofer drivers come with a wooden plug in the woofer?
Guessing it drops the low frequency corner but does it increase distortion?
Is it going to come flying off in 10 years?

Did you have to tweak the crossover to work with the RAAL and did it change the overall FR and/or sensitivity significantly?

Curious - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #9718 of 10058 Old 07-13-2016, 07:41 AM
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Gorgeous as usual...

Do the woofer drivers come with a wooden plug in the woofer?
Yes, they do.

Quote:
Guessing it drops the low frequency corner but does it increase distortion?
It is a phase plug to improve the performance of the driver. It is like phase plugs made of any other material. Seas makes extensive use of phase plugs in their high-end drivers.

Quote:
Is it going to come flying off in 10 years?
It is no more apt to "fly off" than any other phase plug. It is bolted on from the rear of the driver. I doubt it would ever fly off, but if it did, you could simply re-attach it. No problem.

Quote:
Did you have to tweak the crossover to work with the RAAL and did it change the overall FR and/or sensitivity significantly?

Curious - Don
Any driver change requires a new crossover. So, yes, we had to re-work the crossover to accommodate the RAAL.

As for the sensitivity, that is controlled by the woofer, not the tweeter. As long as you are using the same woofer, the sensitivity of the design would not change at all. You can pad down a tweeter that it too sensitive, but you can't normally pad down a woofer to lower its sensitivity.

The only change you would notice is a more extended and transparent top end (as one would expect with a RAAL ribbon tweeter).

- Jim
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post #9719 of 10058 Old 07-13-2016, 08:03 AM
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Thanks Jim, those were mostly tongue in cheek questions, hope I didn't offend! I had read in the primordial past about heavy phase plugs increasing distortion but nothing recently. Not my field. I was wondering about the crossover since you said the tweeter was "sensitive enough" so I was curious. I have rarely seen a woofer padded but figured the ribbon was less sensitive than the T35.

Bet (hope!) that jumpstarts orders for more Exotica RAAL models.

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post #9720 of 10058 Old 07-13-2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Thanks Jim, those were mostly tongue in cheek questions, hope I didn't offend! I had read in the primordial past about heavy phase plugs increasing distortion but nothing recently. Not my field. I was wondering about the crossover since you said the tweeter was "sensitive enough" so I was curious. I have rarely seen a woofer padded but figured the ribbon was less sensitive than the T35.

Bet (hope!) that jumpstarts orders for more Exotica RAAL models.
No problem. The RAAL and the T35 are about the same in terms of sensitivity. They are typically padded down quite a bit in our other designs.

- Jim

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