The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 334 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 391Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #9991 of 10057 Old 11-09-2018, 10:22 PM
Member
 
fangraider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
2018 CAPITAL AUDIOFEST


Another weekend of Audio Nirvana !


Great to meet Mr. Salk . A nice guy with great speakers !


I am a proud owner of the VERACITY HT3's and enjoyed hearing the new SONG-3-BEATS ! You will not "beat" these for $4500 a pair anywhere. They sounded better than most $20,000 + speakers at this show. That just a fact.


~ vk
fangraider is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9992 of 10057 Old 11-12-2018, 04:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tin_Can's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 68
The on axis measurements provided on the website look great, but are there any off axis measurements?

Thanks!
Tin_Can is offline  
post #9993 of 10057 Old 11-27-2018, 09:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
CAF 2018 is now over and the reviews are in.

As always, it was great to meet old and new friends. It is also nice to be able to put faces to the names of customers we have grown to know having been given the opportunity to build their speakers.

It is a lot of work putting on a show like this. But a big part of the reward is being able to meet old and new friends face-to-face. This show was no exception.

As I noted in a previous post, we showed this year with Mike McGary of McGary Audio, Anticables and Exogal.

Mike, a very competent engineer, emailed about a year ago asking if we would be willing to supply speakers for his room at CAF. He was introducing his first product, the SA1 30-watt tube amp. Never having heard this amp, I suggested that he send us a unit to audition with our speakers. It didn't take long after firing up the SA1 to realize that this amp was something special. I immediately emailed him saying we would be happy to team with him for this show.

I was quite pleased with the synergy between Mike's SA1 and our Song3 BeATs. Apparently, others shared my enthusiasm as evidenced by the comments we received.


TwoLeftEars on audiogon.com...

"Easily my nomination for “best bang for the buck” speaker auditioned so far. Extraordinary for the price. I repeat, really extraordinary. A nice presentation overall, good depth of soundstaging, for the size of the woofer the bass is definitely there—and then some."

Eric Franklin Shook on Parttimeaudiofile.com...

“Blindsided”, is a word I used in my show report notes. I know the Salk Signature Sound… sound, but to me the SONG 3 BeAT loudspeaker is something extra special...

"Listening to Tracy Chapman’s – Fast Car, a standard of both audio shows and my life, something felt new and unfamiliar. I don’t think I had ever heard Fast Car played on a tube amplified system before. Maybe this is true, and even if it wasn’t, this felt like the first time. Everything about the texture and placement of Tracy’s guitar in the mix was different and better.

"Realism or some facsimile of it, were involving me emotionally to a song I thought I had long reconciled with. It’s crazy how something so familiar, and at times overplayed, can gain new life with more audible insight. But insight and detail alone were not the story. Bass power and texture exhibited from the system was mouthwatering."


We were also honored to receive PartTimeAudiophile's Editor's Choice Award for the Top Five Rooms at the show!

Greg Weaver in EnjoyTheMusic.com...

"Jim Salk's products are a great example of products that seem to play well with others, and this showing in room 512 was no exception...

"Listening to one of my favorite guitarists, Stevie Ray Vaughn playing "Tin Pan Alley," from Couldn't Stand The Weather, revealed ample detail, with fine micro shading, and delicious string tone. Vocals were excellent, capturing SRVs angst and that husky, smoky power in his voice, with frequency extension that was impressive, especially up top."

Many attendees who had heard our speakers at past shows, commented that this was the best sound they had ever heard in our various show rooms over the years.

All in all, I would have to say this was a very enjoyable show and we hope to team up with Mike at future shows down the line.

Thanks to everyone who visited our room.

- Jim
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	2488084  
Nuance, kokishin, DonH50 and 2 others like this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9994 of 10057 Old 11-27-2018, 10:41 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,035
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3101 Post(s)
Liked: 3037
Congrats, Jim, just keeps getting better.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #9995 of 10057 Old 12-17-2018, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Just wondering how the speaker design process work at salk? I understand you build custom speakers but what exactly happens in driver selection, cabinet design, cross over design etc?
rsmt2000 is offline  
post #9996 of 10057 Old 12-17-2018, 12:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmt2000 View Post
Just wondering how the speaker design process work at salk? I understand you build custom speakers but what exactly happens in driver selection, cabinet design, cross over design etc?
The first step is to determine the driver complement. We often get asked to do a speaker with a driver complement that will not work. If that is the case, we discuss it with the client and offer alternatives that are better matched.

Once the driver complement is nailed down, we generate a cabinet design. We then build a test cabinet and purchase the drivers so that we can develop a crossover.

Once we have a crossover design is complete, we build and finish the actual cabinets.

So it can take a bit longer (and is somewhat more costly) than our normal process since we have to do a test cabinet and develop a crossover before we can actually build the finished cabinets.

- Jim

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #9997 of 10057 Old 12-18-2018, 06:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Thanks for the reply.

Given that speaker design is a juggling of priorities and you cannot have it all, how do you draw a line and say the design is Complete? What sort of measurements do you aim for before closing the design phase?

I don’t want any proprietary information but just trying to understand your process as you tend to release multiple speaker designs quite fast.

Thanks
rsmt2000 is offline  
post #9998 of 10057 Old 12-18-2018, 07:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmt2000 View Post
Thanks for the reply.

Given that speaker design is a juggling of priorities and you cannot have it all, how do you draw a line and say the design is Complete? What sort of measurements do you aim for before closing the design phase?

I don’t want any proprietary information but just trying to understand your process as you tend to release multiple speaker designs quite fast.

Thanks
The process starts with a definition as to what the goals should be. You are correct, there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. Speaker design is all about balancing trade-offs.

So, what is important to you? Cost? Sensitivity? Size? Bass extension? Detail? Warmth? Transparency?

Once you have this well-defined, you have already eliminated the majority speaker drivers from consideration. So you look at what is left and propose a combination that should work well together. For example, you can't use a woofer that is more sensitive than the midrange and/or tweeter (unless it is an active design).

Once you have that, you can model the internal volume required to get the best performance out of the woofer and then design a cabinet that will provide that cabinet tuning while placing the tweeter at or slightly above ear level. You then build a test cabinet.

Once you have the drivers installed in that cabinet, you measure each of them separately to determine the optimum frequency for the crossover point(s) (and whether trap circuits might be required to address cone break-up modes). This is where the magic happens. The end goal is normally the flattest possible frequency response (or impedance in some situations) with perfect phase alignment in the crossover region(s).

Once you have a completed crossover design, you can measure the resulting frequency response and, provided you are satisfied, listen to the result. Most of the time you will be satisfied. But, from time to time, what looked good on paper and in theory does not pan out the way you would have hoped. We have had a few designs that fell into this category. The resulting sound was simply not up to our standards and the project was shelved. That is life.

In order to maximize the chances of success, it helps to choose high quality drivers on the front end. You can still fail, but you will likely never have a positive results with inferior drivers. You simply cannot get them to sound better than their capabilities. So we tend to stick with drivers we know perform well. And if we come across a new driver that shows promise, we test and model it before we even consider incorporating it into a new design.

In short, speaker design is a complicated process. You simply can't take driver X and mate it with driver Y, even though both are excellent drivers. The more experience you have in selecting combinations, the more successful you become and the better you are able to eliminate less-than-ideal choices.

I hope that made sense.

- Jim
eljr, drgn95, JerryLove and 1 others like this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #9999 of 10057 Old 12-18-2018, 08:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Thanks Jim.

Yep. This sure does help.
rsmt2000 is offline  
post #10000 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 07:36 AM
Newbie
 
Franklins-Tower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 7
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!

I was fortunate to have received a set of IsoAcoustics GAIA II that I installed under my Song 3 BeAT's.... I cannot express properly what these have done to these already incredible speakers. The clarity,detail, soundstage, and bass response improved drastically!!!!

BeAT's + GAIA II =😂😂😂😂
Franklins-Tower is offline  
post #10001 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 08:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklins-Tower View Post
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!

I was fortunate to have received a set of IsoAcoustics GAIA II that I installed under my Song 3 BeAT's.... I cannot express properly what these have done to these already incredible speakers. The clarity,detail, soundstage, and bass response improved drastically!!!!

BeAT's + GAIA II =😂😂😂😂
Happy Holidays everyone!

Just curious, what was the first thing you noticed with the GAIA II's? What aspect of the BeAT's performance benefited the most?

- Jim

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10002 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 09:42 AM
Newbie
 
Franklins-Tower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
Happy Holidays everyone!

Just curious, what was the first thing you noticed with the GAIA II's? What aspect of the BeAT's performance benefited the most?

- Jim
Hi Jim,

The bass tightened up considerably, significantly less vibration across my wood floor) clarity and separation improved and thr expansion of the soundstage was not subtle. Everything is vastly more three dimensional!

You already know how impressed I was with the BeAT's, (they are NEVER leaving) but these GAIA's take them up several levels. I was actually not expecting this much of a difference.


All the best!

Glenn
Franklins-Tower is offline  
post #10003 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 10:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklins-Tower View Post
Hi Jim,

The bass tightened up considerably, significantly less vibration across my wood floor) clarity and separation improved and thr expansion of the soundstage was not subtle. Everything is vastly more three dimensional!

You already know how impressed I was with the BeAT's, (they are NEVER leaving) but these GAIA's take them up several levels. I was actually not expecting this much of a difference.


All the best!

Glenn
That is what I figured, but was just curious if that was the first thing you noticed.

- Jim

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10004 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 02:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 5,818
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
That is what I figured, but was just curious if that was the first thing you noticed.

- Jim
Jim, are these isolators something you would recommend?

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
post #10005 of 10057 Old 12-26-2018, 04:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklins-Tower View Post
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!

I was fortunate to have received a set of IsoAcoustics GAIA II that I installed under my Song 3 BeAT's.... I cannot express properly what these have done to these already incredible speakers. The clarity,detail, soundstage, and bass response improved drastically!!!!

BeAT's + GAIA II =😂😂😂😂
Just isolation feet made all these difference? IsoAcoustics is out of my price range so wondering if cheap knockoffs from China would show similar difference for my Sierra Tower.

Ascend Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL. HSU VTF-15H MK2. Sony 40ES and Silver Ticket 135.
FIQBAL is offline  
post #10006 of 10057 Old 12-27-2018, 05:10 AM
Newbie
 
Franklins-Tower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
Just isolation feet made all these difference? IsoAcoustics is out of my price range so wondering if cheap knockoffs from China would show similar difference for my Sierra Tower.
I cannot comment on any other isolation feet whatsoever. All I can comment on is what these specific GAIA's did for my speakers on my floor. YMMV..

They can also be bought with additional spikes for an upcharge for those with carpeting, and the feet have to be turned in the direction toward the listener ( clear instructions are provided but was sort of a pain) but once in place, to my ears, these are much more than a tweak. Pricey, yes, but a huge bargain for what they did in my system.

So yes, they provided a huge difference!
Franklins-Tower is offline  
post #10007 of 10057 Old 12-27-2018, 05:56 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklins-Tower View Post
I cannot comment on any other isolation feet whatsoever. All I can comment on is what these specific GAIA's did for my speakers on my floor. YMMV..

They can also be bought with additional spikes for an upcharge for those with carpeting, and the feet have to be turned in the direction toward the listener ( clear instructions are provided but was sort of a pain) but once in place, to my ears, these are much more than a tweak. Pricey, yes, but a huge bargain for what they did in my system.

So yes, they provided a huge difference!

Interesting. I am technically challenged so have no clue why and how isolation feet can hit all the targets - clarity, detail, soundstage, and bass at the same time. All I know that in this forum people talk endlessly about internal electronics, bracing, woofer and tweeter of speakers and rarely about feet. My wonderful Sierra Tower was made by a company with great technical skill, but never heard them talking about speaker feet which I would assume would be a very cheap way to improve speaker performance. As you said, YMMV, but something is missing here.

Ascend Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL. HSU VTF-15H MK2. Sony 40ES and Silver Ticket 135.
FIQBAL is offline  
post #10008 of 10057 Old 12-27-2018, 08:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Jim, are these isolators something you would recommend?
I can't specifically recommend products I have not personally used or tested. So I can't comment on these.

What I can say is there has been a lot of talk recently among some of our customers who claim positive results.

For many years, common wisdom among audiophiles is that spikes were required to solidly couple speakers to the floor. Now, some are saying you need devices to de-couple speakers from the floor. This product is one that meets that criteria. But, obviously, these theories are diametrically opposed to one another. So which is correct? Or, are both correct depending on the circumstances in a particular room?

If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that it depends on the floor in question. For example, if you had a wooden floor and used spikes, you might transfer energy into the floor which could resonate, muddying up the sound. So isolation might provide improvement. Conversely, if you had a concrete floor, perhaps spikes would be a better choice since the floor would not resonate in the first place. But this is merely conjecture on my part.

If you want to experiment with the concept of decoupling speakers from the floor, I have seen these vibration damping devices sold as audiophile add-ons for $99 for a set of four. Here, you can purchase a set of four for $11.49.

Anti-vibration pads

There are quite a few companies now offering products to de-couple speakers from the floor. Claims are that they tighten up the bass, clean up the midrange and make a huge difference. I can't argue with those who report dramatic improvements in sound quality. But, again, results may vary depending on the floor they are used on. I simply don't know and, therefore, can't comment either way.

- Jim
Mike_WI likes this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10009 of 10057 Old 01-17-2019, 11:40 AM
Member
 
RN2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Song 3 Beat Question

Jim...I'd like to ask two questions about the S3B if I may?


1. With an overall height of 44.5" and the midrange and tweeter near the top...how does this not end up being too high if the normal seated ear height is 36/37" and 10-12 feet back?


2. Also, I see from your rankings that you show the song 3A as being more detailed than the Song 3 Beat...is that because the Ribbon is more detailed than the beryllium tweeter?? I ask because it seems that all of the hype we see for beryllium tweeters is because of their super detail orientation.


Thanks in advance for anything you can share.
RN2013 is offline  
post #10010 of 10057 Old 01-17-2019, 12:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by RN2013 View Post
Jim...I'd like to ask two questions about the S3B if I may?


1. With an overall height of 44.5" and the midrange and tweeter near the top...how does this not end up being too high if the normal seated ear height is 36/37" and 10-12 feet back?
The tweeter is located about 4" below the top of the speaker, which would put it at about 40.5" off the floor. Seating height is normally about 37". The tweeter should be at ear level or slightly higher. If you are seated at 10' from the speakers, you are slightly less than 1.5 degrees off-axis vertically (less at 12'). There really isn't a measurable difference at that angle.

If you are standing, having the tweeter slightly above 37" helps with the vertical dispersion of a ribbon. But again, we're splitting hairs here. At 40.5" is represents no audible difference.

That said, if a customer felt strongly about this, we could lower the tweeter/midrange and increase the depth of the cabinet to maintain the same cabinet volume for the woofer.

Quote:
2. Also, I see from your rankings that you show the song 3A as being more detailed than the Song 3 Beat...is that because the Ribbon is more detailed than the beryllium tweeter?? I ask because it seems that all of the hype we see for beryllium tweeters is because of their super detail orientation.
No, it is the midrange. The Accuton has a very stiff ceramic cone and is very detailed. On great recordings, this can be an advantage. On poorly recorded or mastered music (much classic rock falls into this category), you would hear every flaw. Some people love all the detail they can get. Others may find the Accuton to be a bit too "analytical" for their taste. That is why we offer both. The AudioTechnology mid in the Song3 BeAT's is also quite detailed, but a bit smoother over all.

The Be tweeter sounds almost identical to the RAAL ribbon tweeters we have used for years. I wouldn't rate either as being more detailed than the other. Both are excellent in that regard.

Quote:
Thanks in advance for anything you can share.
No problem.

- Jim
BufordTJustice likes this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10011 of 10057 Old 01-17-2019, 03:06 PM
Member
 
RN2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Song 3 Beat follow up

Thanks again Jim...for the quick reply...I think based on your comments, I would personally lean toward less detail in favor of smoothness.



And of course, your response has me wanting to ask two more questions:


1. For the Song 3 Beat...why use the Be tweeter and not the RAAL ribbon?


2. Can you comment on how an AMT might sound as I'm sure you've tested them to see if/how they might work.


I heard one of the GoldnEars several years ago and their AMT seemed pretty smooth but mostly what I remember is the sense of ambiance....I've also heard the Martin Logan AMT....not smooth, bright...but somewhat spacious.
BufordTJustice likes this.
RN2013 is offline  
post #10012 of 10057 Old 01-18-2019, 09:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by RN2013 View Post
Thanks again Jim...for the quick reply...I think based on your comments, I would personally lean toward less detail in favor of smoothness.



And of course, your response has me wanting to ask two more questions:


1. For the Song 3 Beat...why use the Be tweeter and not the RAAL ribbon?
A number of years ago, I saw a demonstration of a prototype Be tweeter cone. It was quite impressive. The break-up mode was well above audibility which meant it would be very clean. It also damped the signal much quicker than other metal domes being promoted at the time. This meant is was far less prone to "ringing" like other metal cones can. So it seamed like a great potential advance in tweeter technology.

We waited quite a few years for actual tweeters to come on the market as Be is very difficult to manufacture safely.

When the first Be tweeters finally came on the market, we were very excited to get our hands on them for testing purposes. The first sample we got our hands on measured extremely well and we were anxious to use it in the next model speaker we developed. Unfortunately, that company lost the only employee who knew how to build these tweeters and discontinued them.

The Satori tweeter we eventually used was from a company (SB Acoustics) with some very good engineers and a reputation for producing great drivers at reasonable prices. So we jumped on the Satori Be tweeter as soon as it became available and never looked back.

It turns out that the speaker we happened to be working on at the time was the Song3 BeAT. That is why this model ended up with the Be tweeter rather than the RAAL we would have used in other circumstances.

Imagine the accuracy and sound of the RAAL with the off-axis response of a dome tweeter. That, in essence is what you have. Both are GREAT tweeters and we wouldn't hesitate using either one of them in a new design.

There are some applications that would benefit slightly from the Be tweeter and some that would benefit slightly from the RAAL tweeter. But I look at them as being more similar than different in terms of performance.

Quote:
2. Can you comment on how an AMT might sound as I'm sure you've tested them to see if/how they might work.


[FONT=Arial]I heard one of the GoldnEars several years ago and their AMT seemed pretty smooth but mostly what I remember is the sense of ambiance....I've also heard the Martin Logan AMT....not smooth, bright...but somewhat spacious.
We worked with original Heil ATM on quite a few projects over the years. The ATM concept is proven and has the potential of working very well. We have tested a few reasonably-price ATM tweeters. Some of them tested quite poorly, while others performed fairly well. I am sure an expensive Mundorf ATMs would work quite well. But, in the end, we did not find any reasonably-priced ATM's to be compelling enough to use in any design we were working on developing. That could always change as we love to test new and promising drivers. But for now, we see no compelling reason to develop models utilizing ATM drivers.

There is a tendency in the industry to tout "new" and "break-through" driver products all the time. It provides companies employing them an opportunity to tout the latest and greatest. Then, the following year, when all the marketing buzz wears off, they turn out to be no better than what existed before and sometimes not even that good. So we tend to take a conservative approach in regard to the "hottest" new driver technology. In the end, if the speaker sounds great, who cares what technology is employed.

I hope this made sense.

- Jim
BufordTJustice likes this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10013 of 10057 Old 01-18-2019, 02:45 PM
Senior Member
 
abd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklins-Tower View Post
Hi Jim,

The bass tightened up considerably, significantly less vibration across my wood floor) clarity and separation improved and thr expansion of the soundstage was not subtle. Everything is vastly more three dimensional!

Glenn
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
That is what I figured, but was just curious if that was the first thing you noticed.

- Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
Just isolation feet made all these difference? IsoAcoustics is out of my price range so wondering if cheap knockoffs from China would show similar difference for my Sierra Tower.
I just wanted to add that last night I installed the Isoacoustics GAIA III's to my Song3's. I just had about 45 minutes of listening today when no one was home and I am also extremely impressed. I totally agree with Franklins-Tower. The bass is so much more detailed, actually everything seems more detailed and delineated. I also have wood floors and they are very spongy and squeaky (70ish year old house) and I've always thought that the speakers are creating vibration that is smearing the sound. I can confirm these feet clear that up big time. I agree with Jim that maybe with a different floor type you won't ge tthe improvements I'm hearing, but for my situation it's profound. I was playing music louder than I ever had in this room and it was so clean and clear sounding. The bass hit harder and the imaging had even more depth. I was actually late getting back to work and had to postpone a meeting because I couldn't get off the couch - got sucked into the audio vortex!

This is an expensive upgrade but more than worth it for me. One plus is that the Song3's are less than 70lbs so you can get the GAIA III's instead of the II's which saves about $200. Also, I had tried some slider anti-vibration feet from a popular online dealer and they worked a little, but nothing like this. So, I wouldn't skimp and get something else. Just save and wait. These feet made a more profound difference in sound quality than I've sometimes heard from upgrading components, cables, etc. Honestly, I don't think you can spend $400 upgrading a component and get this kind of improvement. They don't have any "break in" so you will immediately know if they're working for you or not. I recommend at least trying them out.
BufordTJustice likes this.

2 Channel "Man Nook"
Primaluna Dialogue One/Salk Song3's/Exogal Comet/Job 225
Home Theater Room/Kids Lounge
Emotiva XMC-1, XPA-2, XPA-100, BasX A-500
GE Triton 2's/Aperion VG Center/Paradigm Cinema Surrounds/Rythmik LVX12
abd1 is offline  
post #10014 of 10057 Old 01-21-2019, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 246
Just got notified that my Salk BeAT's will be shipping tomorrow! Excited to join the Salk fam

Will be fed by a Metrum Pavane Level 3 DAC and Parasound Halo Integrated Amplifier, with Pro-ject debut carbon record player and a Raspberry pi + DigiOne by Allo streaming using Moode Audio Player as sources

bclark8923 is offline  
post #10015 of 10057 Old 01-22-2019, 11:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
David wanted a home theater set-up based on the SS7F's. He wanted a midnight blue finish over quilted maple. We used our "double-dye" process to enhance the contrast.

The set-up included SS 7F's for mains, the SS 7C center channel and a pair of WOW1's for surrounds.

I've attached some photos...

Happy listening David!

- Jim
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SS7F-midnightbluequiltedmaple.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	123.4 KB
ID:	2514598   Click image for larger version

Name:	SS7F-midnightbluequiltedmaple-cu.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	86.2 KB
ID:	2514600   Click image for larger version

Name:	SS7C-midnightbluequiltedmaple.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	86.4 KB
ID:	2514602   Click image for larger version

Name:	WOW1-midnightbluequiltedmaple.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	107.5 KB
ID:	2514604  
Nuance, Mike_WI, abd1 and 5 others like this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10016 of 10057 Old 01-22-2019, 05:57 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Mike_WI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
David wanted a home theater set-up based on the SS7F's. He wanted a midnight blue finish over quilted maple. We used our "double-dye" process to enhance the contrast.

The set-up included SS 7F's for mains, the SS 7C center channel and a pair of WOW1's for surrounds.

I've attached some photos...

Happy listening David!

- Jim
Looks amazing.
Will you be AXPONA again this year?

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
Mike_WI is offline  
post #10017 of 10057 Old 01-23-2019, 08:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Looks amazing.
Will you be AXPONA again this year?
Yes. We will be in two rooms...one with Schiit Audio and one with McGary Audio.

- Jim
Mike_WI likes this.

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #10018 of 10057 Old 01-23-2019, 08:09 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Mike_WI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
Yes. We will be in two rooms...one with Schiit Audio and one with McGary Audio.

- Jim
Great. We have a WI group going down for it.
I saw the Schiit Audio / Salk room and was blown away. First time I heard/saw Salk. Great stuff.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
Mike_WI is offline  
post #10019 of 10057 Old 01-25-2019, 08:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Great. We have a WI group going down for it.
I saw the Schiit Audio / Salk room and was blown away. First time I heard/saw Salk. Great stuff.
Wow. These SS7s are like the Veracity’s reviewed a few years back.

Jim,

How do SS7s compare to Song 3 series and Ss8s? particularly the song 3 BeATs. Also do you have any plans for even smaller surrounds with Be or RAAL tweeters?
rsmt2000 is offline  
post #10020 of 10057 Old 01-25-2019, 09:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmt2000 View Post
Wow. These SS7s are like the Veracity’s reviewed a few years back.

Jim,

How do SS7s compare to Song 3 series and Ss8s? particularly the song 3 BeATs. Also do you have any plans for even smaller surrounds with Be or RAAL tweeters?
The SS7F model uses the same tweeter and midrange as the SS8's. It uses a pair of 7" woofers rather than the pair of 8" woofers used in the SS8's. The 8" woofers, along with its passive radiators, is designed to play very deep (25Hz). The 7" woofers in the SS7F's play down to about 45Hz. So there is a 20Hz difference in bass extension. But if you are using them with a subwoofer or two, it really doesn't matter.

The Song3-A's use a smaller RAAL ribbon along with the same Accuton midrange as the SS models. While the crossover to the ribbon needs to be higher, the Accuton is very comfortable and the result it pretty much the same from the midrange on up. The Song3-A's have a single 7.5" woofer that plays down to 33Hz.

The Song3 BeAT's sound a bit different than any of these speakers. The midrange driver is made by AudioTechnology and built by the same family that founded ScanSpeak and Dynaudio. In fact, if you look at the midrange and compare it to a Dynaudio midrange, you will see they look the same.

This midrange is slightly less detailed than the Accuton mid, but more detailed than a typical paper-coned woofer. It has a bit more body in the lower midrange so vocals and instruments like a tenor sax have a bit more body. The result is a smoother sounding presentation from top to bottom. It uses the same 7.5" woofer as the Song3-A's so the bass extension is the same 33Hz.

As for a smaller surround, we do have a Supercharged Song Surround with 5" woofers and the larger custom RAAL 70-20 used in the SS series speakers. Were you looking for something even smaller?

I hope this helps.

- Jim

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off