Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy
Thanks again, Nuance. I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts on the issue of midrange reproduction, because this comes up again and again in different contexts, and I'm not sure it's understood very well. There are generally two reasons why the midrange might sound too forward. The first is inadequate baffle step compensation. This is a technical subject involving when a speaker transitions from 4-pi to 2-pi radiation, and I won't bore anyone with the details. But the bottom line is that if the crossover doesn't use enough baffle step compensation, there will be a peak in the response around 1 kHz, followed by a dip. The overall effect is emphasize voices and brass, but in a way that actually smears the sound. You will lose clarity and detail, not emphasize it. The second cause is a natural bump in the woofer in the same region, sometimes caused by a resonance where the cone meets the surround. Most woofers have at least a little of this, but some have quite a bit, including those used in a number of designs people have sent me for a make-over. Again, the result is not really accentuated detail, but an irritating edge on the sound. The Seas CA15 used in the Song Tower doesn't suffer from this problem. It's just nothing I had to deal with. Speakers that you might think are adding detail over and above what is in the recording generally suffer from a peak further up in the frequency range,in the 3-6 kHz range, and this emphasis is often combined with a dip in the crossover region (usually in the 2.5-3.0 kHz range) due to sub-optimal crossover slopes. That's the area I work hardest on, and I don't think there's a problem with the SongTowers--but I'm not trying to make this a commercial message. I could be wrong. In any event, I would like to point out that one of the theoretical advantages of a properly designed transmission line is suppression of the woofer's back wave, and therefore less blurring from refections back to the rear of the woofer. It's possible that you were picking up on that. But I haven't performed the necessary controlled A-B tests to make sure that the theory works in practice. Obviously, you can only judge the results if you hear the SongTowers, and I thank you for making it more likely that people will try and do that.
Thank you for that explanation, Dennis. While initially I thought the midrange was "forward," I truly appreciated it while listening during our test and felt that it was a poor way to describe what I was hearing. I apologize for using that term, because the midrange wasn't harsh or forward at all unless I really cranked the volume (naturally; this will happen with any
speaker). I simply wasn't used to the TL sound and didn't know how to explain it. The only thing I can say about it is that the midrange clarity is the best I have heard in a speaker in this price category. Whether some may pass it off as forward or bright, I say it's just right and much enjoyed it. I heard every single detail and breath, which I could also do on some of the other speakers, but I didn't have to strain or really concentrate to do so. I think it's pretty safe to say that I loved the Song Tower and completely agree with you and Jim that adding bigger woofers to give more bass extension and midbass slam at the expense of losing that midrange quality would have been a bad idea. Most of us will be using a subwoofer with any speaker that doesn't hit the 20's anyway.
Congrats on a fine product guys; it's too bad you "retired" from the business, Dennis.
Originally Posted by kokishin
Didn't you take the Rocket 850's home after Cragi's GTG? Appears to me that you slightly preferred the Song Towers.
BTW, absolutely nothing negative intended by my question. You are a most excellent contibutor to the AVS forums. Just curious.
I'm torn between (in no particular order) Revel Ultimas, Jim's HT-3's, Danny's LS-9's, or the collaboration between Jim and Phil Bamberg (when it becomes public). I would prefer a 5.1 or 7.1 setup which I am not sure how to accomplish with the LS-9's even though music is my top priority followed by HT.
Yes sir, I did prefer the Song Tower's over the Rocket's, I won't lie. However, the Rocket's are also an exceptional product for the price, and as we all know Craig is the most generous of men, so I got a real good deal due to his generosity and thanks to my wife's surprise help. I immediately needed at least
a pair of tower's and a center channel, all at a specified budget. Craig helped me out huge; something that would have been silly to say "no" to. I admit that I agreed to pick up the Rocket 850 Sig's and matching bigfoot center before I had even heard them (well, I had heard the center before). Well, much to my surprise and pleasure, the Rocket's are an awesome speaker, especially for their retail price. I was thrilled that these were the speakers I was taking home, but would also have been thrilled to take home the Song Towers (if those were the speakers I would have agreed to take, like I did the Rocket's). In my humble opinion, there isn't much better available in the $1500 price range besides the Rocket 850's, Salk Song Tower's and the Vandersteen 1C's. I'm just one guy and surely haven't heard everything out there in that price range, but I'm just telling it like it is from my perspective; no one has to agree with me...its just my opinion. Good products deserve recognition, and why Salk Sound didn't have it's own thread is beyond me. IMHO they needed
a thread; they are that good in my eyes. And sure enough, there are
owners on this forum. Very cool; that makes it worth it.
Keep up the good work people.
P.S. I was about to start an owner's thread for the av123 products as well, but someone already beat me to the punch earlier this year. These two companies make exceptional products people; they deserve an owner's thread.