SPEAKER WIRE = 14 AWG or 12 AWG? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 16Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 07:22 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank966 View Post


Lastly, at this short of a difference, will there be any noticeable sound difference between 14AWG and 16AWG?
No.
Squirrel! likes this.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 07:30 AM
Member
 
frankthetank966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

No.
Thanks. Also, I have some other speaker wire. I'm not sure what the AWG is. It is suggested to use the same speaker wire and same AWG for the whole system?
frankthetank966 is offline  
post #33 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank966 View Post

Thanks. Also, I have some other speaker wire. I'm not sure what the AWG is. It is suggested to use the same speaker wire and same AWG for the whole system?
You may mix gauges so long as you don't use any that's too small.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 08:45 AM
Member
 
frankthetank966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You may mix gauges so long as you don't use any that's too small.
Thanks for the replies. I am going with 16AWG due to the short distance. It is my understanding that because of less than 20ft 12AWG/14AWG/16AWG wont make a difference.
bluewizard likes this.
frankthetank966 is offline  
post #35 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 12:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geoff4RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just down aways from Stanley
Posts: 4,511
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank966 View Post

I'm in a similar situation. I will be implementing a 4 speaker, 1 sub, 1 center speaker system. I live in an apartment.

The center, sub, and two front speakers will be less than 5 feet away from my amp. The two rear speakers will be 10-15 feet away from the sub. I recently purchased 16AWG wire. Should I switch to 14AWG wire or stay with the 16? I reviewed the chart online, however I'm confused about OHM.

Lastly, at this short of a difference, will there be any noticeable sound difference between 14AWG and 16AWG?

Wow, this one goes back a ways biggrin.gif

Noticeable sound difference? Probably not.

OOPs, just saw the second page, like Bill said.

Set up:
Marantz AV8802A w/Pangea Premium XLR's-Source: Oppo 103-CD Player: Emotiva ERC 3 w/Pangea Premium XLR's
Display: Samsung QLED 65F-Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2
Mains: PolkAudio LSiM707, C 706, SS 702, RS RTiA9
Geoff4RFC is online now  
post #36 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 04:15 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 27,743
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2223 Post(s)
Liked: 1467
you guys resurrected a 5+ year old thread.

If your longest run is only 15ft away from the receiver, 16ga will be fine. No need to get thicker wire unless you want to do it for aesthetic reasons. I generally use 14ga because I like the thicker wire vs 16ga.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #37 of 104 Old 07-06-2013, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geoff4RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just down aways from Stanley
Posts: 4,511
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 1671
What's up Afro, long time..........don't you know, the thicker the hose, the quicker the pose.

Set up:
Marantz AV8802A w/Pangea Premium XLR's-Source: Oppo 103-CD Player: Emotiva ERC 3 w/Pangea Premium XLR's
Display: Samsung QLED 65F-Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2
Mains: PolkAudio LSiM707, C 706, SS 702, RS RTiA9
Geoff4RFC is online now  
post #38 of 104 Old 07-07-2013, 12:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Torqdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,717
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauneyM View Post

Nobody has asked the two most important questions:


> What impedance are the speakers?

> What is the power level you'll be running?
+3
Look at it this way.........if you have a small diameter hose, when running the water at a low level there will be no difference between the small diameter hose and a larger diameter hose as far as the volume of water coming out the nozzle. Turn the valve up to high and the large diameter hose will put out far more water than the small. Same thing for speaker wire and how much power you plan to push through your cables is important.

Another reason to go with a larger cable is you may upgrade your system to a more powerful one some time in the future. Upgrading your cable selection now would in essence "future proof" any need to upgrade again down the road. For the cost difference of a larger cable, it's a no-brainer IMHO. Especially if your cables are an "in wall" install.
Torqdog is offline  
post #39 of 104 Old 07-07-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Another reason to go with a larger cable is you may upgrade your system to a more powerful one some time in the future. Upgrading your cable selection now would in essence "future proof" any need to upgrade again down the road. For the cost difference of a larger cable, it's a no-brainer IMHO. Especially if your cables are an "in wall" install.
System power seldom enters into the equation. Even 16 ga wire at 25 feet will handle 250w with a 4 ohm load, 500 with 8 ohms. What matters is insertion loss, the resistance of the wire versus the impedance of the speaker. If that insertion loss is in excess of 1dB you can hear it, so use sufficient gauge for the wire length and speaker impedance to prevent that. Below 1dB is doesn't matter if the insertion loss is 0.9dB or 0.09dB, you won't be able to tell the difference.
tubetwister likes this.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #40 of 104 Old 07-08-2013, 02:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JerryLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,655
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 109
JerryLove is offline  
post #41 of 104 Old 08-22-2013, 12:21 PM
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 29,681
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

System power seldom enters into the equation. Even 16 ga wire at 25 feet will handle 250w with a 4 ohm load, 500 with 8 ohms. What matters is insertion loss, the resistance of the wire versus the impedance of the speaker. If that insertion loss is in excess of 1dB you can hear it, so use sufficient gauge for the wire length and speaker impedance to prevent that. Below 1dB is doesn't matter if the insertion loss is 0.9dB or 0.09dB, you won't be able to tell the difference.

Whoa....
Mfusick is offline  
post #42 of 104 Old 08-23-2013, 06:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1870 Post(s)
Liked: 1294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

System power seldom enters into the equation. Even 16 ga wire at 25 feet will handle 250w with a 4 ohm load, 500 with 8 ohms. What matters is insertion loss, the resistance of the wire versus the impedance of the speaker. If that insertion loss is in excess of 1dB you can hear it, so use sufficient gauge for the wire length and speaker impedance to prevent that. Below 1dB is doesn't matter if the insertion loss is 0.9dB or 0.09dB, you won't be able to tell the difference.

Absolutely correct. Look at what gauge wire your electrical system in your house uses. It can handle way more current than anything you would ever push to a speaker.
KidHorn is offline  
post #43 of 104 Old 08-23-2013, 06:56 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Look at what gauge wire your electrical system in your house uses. It can handle way more current than anything you would ever push to a speaker.
The current requirement for speaker cable can be considerably higher than that for the power supply cable. If the amp is drawing 1000 watts at 110v that's 9 amperes. Assuming 70% efficiency that amp could put out 700w, which into a 4 ohm load is 52 volts at 13 amps. The wire gauge requirement in this case would be 16ga. for the A/C supply, 14ga. for the speaker cable. If the load was 2 ohms, often seen in pro-sound, 700w would be 37 volts at 19 amps, requiring 12ga speaker cables.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #44 of 104 Old 07-17-2015, 11:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
checker9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirac View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by ufo1922

what does American Gauge means?


American Wire Gauge (e.g. 14 AWG) refers to how many turns per inch the bare wire covers. So for that example, 14 turns in one inch means the wire is 1/14" diameter, without insulation. 10 gauge wire would be 1/10" (0.10 in) and so on. So the LOWER the gauge number, the thicker the wire. Here, 10 gauge is noticeably thicker than 14 gauge.

Similar scales are used for lots of different hardware. Shotgun gauges are totally different.
Is my math right:

12AWG is 78% thicker than 16AWG? I always thought it was ~2.5 times thicker.

but 1/12 divided by 2 and then squared = .001736111 sq inches

and 1/16 divided by 2 and then squared = .000976563 sq inches

so 1/12 is thicker than 1/16 wire by .00174 / .000977 = 1.78

Note: I did not multiple either by Pi since it would cancel out in a ratio of each other.

Edit: I Think the problem is that 12AWG is roughly 1/12 inch thick but AWG 16 is not 1/16 inch thick. Per this chart it is less than 19th thick:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

where 16awg is listed as being .0508 inch thick which would be 1/.0508 = 19.68 not 16. so 16awg is really 1/19.7 th of an inch? that would make 12awg roughly 2.4 times thicker which is what I think I recall hearing.

Either that chart is wrong or the '1/X AWG' of an inch rule of thumb is wrong.

Last edited by checker9; 07-17-2015 at 12:04 PM.
checker9 is offline  
post #45 of 104 Old 07-17-2015, 12:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
The answer to your question is - YES - 12ga or 14ga wire.

14ga wire, using a 8 ohm load as a reference, can sustain 300w for an extended period of time, and has a peak working power of about 1800w, and a absolute limit of about 8000w.

Assuming a very modest 3% Loss, 14 ga wire is good for up to 23.5 feet to a 4 ohm load, 35.5 feet to a 6 ohm load, and 45.5 feet to an 8 ohm load.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post32129745

In short, I think you are good.

However, especially from MonoPrice, 12 ga wire is not that expensive, so no problem if you choose to use this.

In short ... don't worry about it.

Steve/bluewizard
BufordTJustice likes this.
bluewizard is offline  
post #46 of 104 Old 07-18-2015, 08:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,028
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked: 192
Oh, wow, I just asked in the other thread.
One more here, hope no one will be mad at me

Instead of creating a new thread which probably waste some space, I'm asking in this thread ........ since it's somehow related.
I thought 12awg is better than 14awg, especially for longer run (long distance) but I've read somewhere in the net that claimed .... for rear/surround speakers, it's better using 14awg wire than 12awg because of ...... can't remember the causes.
Is that true?
tinhvo is offline  
post #47 of 104 Old 07-18-2015, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,028
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked: 192
Oh, also, one more question.
If the in-wall wire is 12-awg, can we use different size wire like 14-awg to tag along with it or has to be matched?
tinhvo is offline  
post #48 of 104 Old 07-18-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
I've read somewhere in the net that claimed .... for rear/surround speakers, it's better using 14awg wire than 12awg because of ...... can't remember the causes.
Is that true?
Link? At any rate, not true, and depending on the wire lengths involved 12 ga on the rears and 14ga on the front may be better. 'May', since if the insertion loss is less than 1dB then you won't be able to hear any difference, no matter what gauge you use.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #49 of 104 Old 07-18-2015, 09:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,028
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Link? At any rate, not true, and depending on the wire lengths involved 12 ga on the rears and 14ga on the front may be better. 'May', since if the insertion loss is less than 1dB then you won't be able to hear any difference, no matter what gauge you use.
Can't remember where I got it, from some other forum, maybe.
I always think that the longer distance run you have, the bigger wire you need. (and yes, not longer than 50ft )
tinhvo is offline  
post #50 of 104 Old 07-18-2015, 04:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
...

I thought 12awg is better than 14awg, especially for longer run (long distance) but I've read somewhere in the net that claimed .... for rear/surround speakers, it's better using 14awg wire than 12awg ...
Every two even numbered gauges, that is 16ga-to-14ga and 14ga-to-12 ga, the wire is about 60% larger. That is the only advantage.

In longer runs Inductance of the wire become significant resulting in combined losses of 10% to 15% or more.

It is conceivable that the Inductance of 14ga wire is better than 12ga wire, but its Resistive loses are going to be greater.

However, there is no way to make a judgement unless you can get the rated parameters of the wire - Ohm/ft, Inductance/ft, and Capacitance/ft of the individual wires and make the calculations.

To some extent I have done that here. Calculated the Inductive Impedance and Capacitive Impedance of a wide range of speaker wire.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...rspective.html


You'll find some additional discussion in this thread, though it somewhat repeats what is said in the above thread -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...re-length.html


Note that Inductive Impedance is frequency sensitive. The cable is essentially a Low Pass Filter, and we are simply determining where that Low Pass starts.

At one point I determine that a given cable at 50ft has -

3% loss at 3,614hz and 10% loss at 12,650hz from Inductive Impedance for 50ft of common 13ga** wire


You can see the difference at different Frequencies. Combine the Resistive and Inductive, and the total loss could be in the range of about 15%, but only at higher frequencies.

Steve/bluewizard

**NOTE: 13ga (2.62mm²) is the nearest gauged wire to the common Euro standard of 2.5mm², which is why I chose it for my calculations.
BufordTJustice likes this.
bluewizard is offline  
post #51 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 12:52 PM
Member
 
enlisted23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Note that Inductive Impedance is frequency sensitive. The cable is essentially a Low Pass Filter, and we are simply determining where that Low Pass starts.

At one point I determine that a given cable at 50ft has -

3% loss at 3,614hz and 10% loss at 12,650hz from Inductive Impedance for 50ft of common 13ga** wire
Bluewizard,
I'm curious if you've ever done the frequency sweep with Monster XP or OMC cable? I've found that the XP wire has a good effect on the low frequencies (by my ears) but have never looked at the reactance of the wire. The OMC wire doesn't have the same clarity as the XP. I also listen at low to medium volume on a good class AB stereo amp and bi-wired Polk RTi speakers. Thanks

PS, I also wondered if you tested it while it was still coiled on the spool or not?

Last edited by enlisted23; 07-21-2015 at 03:17 PM.
enlisted23 is offline  
post #52 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 01:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,828
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirac View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ufo1922

what does American Gauge means?


American Wire Gauge (e.g. 14 AWG) refers to how many turns per inch the bare wire covers. So for that example, 14 turns in one inch means the wire is 1/14" diameter, without insulation. 10 gauge wire would be 1/10" (0.10 in) and so on.


Disagree. There are 40 gauge sizes from 36 AWG (0.005 inches in diameter) to 0000 AWG (0.46 inches in diameter), with 39 steps in between. The progression between the two ends is logarithmic, with every step of 3 resulting in a doubling (or halving) of the cross-sectional area.

psgcdn is offline  
post #53 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: near Tampa, Florida
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1231 Post(s)
Liked: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post


Disagree. There are 40 gauge sizes from 36 AWG (0.005 inches in diameter) to 0000 AWG (0.46 inches in diameter), with 39 steps in between. The progression between the two ends is logarithmic, with every step of 3 resulting in a doubling (or halving) of the cross-sectional area.
From a wire table, displayed with log scale, gauge, area and ohms


I'll be back later...


System links::: 1.5RQ > digits from all sources > 1177a > OpenDRC-DI with AcourateDRC > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest + Cheezewoofer Wattless Deluxe > Sweetspot
RayDunzl is offline  
post #54 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by enlisted23 View Post
Bluewizard,
I'm curious if you've ever done the frequency sweep with Monster XP or OMC cable? I've found that the XP wire has a good effect on the low frequencies (by my ears) but have never looked at the reactance of the wire. The OMC wire doesn't have the same clarity as the XP. I also listen at low to medium volume on a good class AB stereo amp and Polk RTi speakers. Thanks

PS, I also wondered if you tested it while it was still coiled on the spool or not?
I didn't test the wire, I calculated results using published Specs.

This is how a Low Pass Filter works -

See Photo
- http://ccs.exl.info/images/cust_cr_12dblow.gif

Inductance (coil) is in Series and the Capacitance is in Parallel.

As the associated frequency goes down, the Capacitance also goes UP.

Just to illustrate, for the Low Pass Diagram above, the Capacitance for 1000hz is 14 µF (microFarads) and the Capacitance for 2000hz is 7µF (microFarads). High capacitance shifts the Low Pass Frequency DOWN, which is not what you want.

But for common generic 12ga twin lead wire, the Capacitance is 1.90µH /10ft. And the effected frequency where X = R is fC = 110,580,326 hz.

X = R
is a pretty extreme case, this is where half the voltage is dropped across the speaker, and half it dropped across the wire.

I also calculated X = R/10 or 1/10th of the voltages is dropped across the Wire (10% loss).

fC = 1,143,354,476

fL = 64,430 hz

And I calculated X = R/35, or the wire voltage loss is 1/35th or about 2.86% signal loss. This is about equal to Resistive signal loss.

For R/35 (2.86%) I only calculated the Inductive frequency because, as the percent went down, the Capacitive Frequency went crazy high.

fL = 18,407 hz

Because Inductance is the only parameter than can cause a problem, it is the only one you need to consider. Making low Inductance cable is easy enough. But even common Twin Lead has more than sufficiently low Capacitance.

You can find all the calculations here -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...rspective.html

This is all covered in the link just above.

Of the calculations I made, the worst was the one you were responding to.

50ft of 13ga wire. Pure Resistance for 13ga wire is 2.003 ohms per 1000 feet. So 0.2003 ohms for 100ft, and half that at 0.10015 ohms for 50 feet.

If we assume an 8 ohms speaker, then the percent of Resistive Loss is -

0.10015 / 8 = 0.0125 or 1.25% loss

At 2.86% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 3,614hz.

At 10% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 12,650hz.

So Total Loss at 3,614hz, the loss is 4.11%,

but at 12,650hz the Total loss is 11.25%.

Keep in mind this is 13ga or 2.62mm², where as common 12ga is 3.31mm², and 14ga is 2.08mm².

You can find the standard specs on common wire here -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 07-20-2015 at 04:45 PM.
bluewizard is offline  
post #55 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 04:45 PM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
At 2.86% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 3,614hz.
At 10% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 12,650hz.
So Total Loss at 3,614hz, the loss is 4.11%,
but at 12,650hz the Total loss is 11.25%.
For any of this to be useful you need to state the loss figures in decibels. Anything less than 1dB is inaudible and is of no consequence.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #56 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 04:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
For any of this to be useful you need to state the loss figures in decibels. Anything less than 1dB is inaudible and is of no consequence.
Feel free to show us the calculations. You keep pushing this issue, but you never deliver on the data.

How about you actually add to the conversation?

Steve/bluewizard
bluewizard is offline  
post #57 of 104 Old 07-20-2015, 08:06 PM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Feel free to show us the calculations. You keep pushing this issue, but you never deliver on the data.
It's your project. I humbly submit that you learn how to present your data in the proper form. It's not like the decibel was invented yesterday. I'll even give you a head start:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm

Last edited by Bill Fitzmaurice; 07-20-2015 at 08:16 PM.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #58 of 104 Old 07-21-2015, 10:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It's your project. I humbly submit that you learn how to present your data in the proper form. It's not like the decibel was invented yesterday. I'll even give you a head start:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm
You repeatedly indicate this is an important issue. If it is so important, why don't you lay the data out for us?

I laid out my data and people can make of it what they will.

You complain, but you really add nothing. Here is your chance to contribute to our greater knowledge and enlighten is all.

Steve/bluewizard
bluewizard is offline  
post #59 of 104 Old 07-21-2015, 11:57 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
You repeatedly indicate this is an important issue.
It's important enough that using the decibel to compare signal levels is how it's been done by the electrical and acoustical engineering communities since the 1930s. If you want your opinions to be taken seriously you need to express them using the accepted engineering terminology, rather than making it up as you go along.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #60 of 104 Old 07-21-2015, 12:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2330 Post(s)
Liked: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It's important enough that using the decibel to compare signal levels is how it's been done by the electrical and acoustical engineering communities since the 1930s....
You are either part of the Solutions ... or you are part of the Problems.

Steve/bluewizard
bluewizard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off