Official Wyred 4 Sound Amp Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 02:29 PM
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I believe it's a problem with the Audyssey set-up signals overloading the input stage.
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post #32 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 03:17 PM
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Hmm, your post was the first I've heard of anything like that actually. Can you link me to some discussions on that?

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #33 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundas View Post

Do these amps have any issues with Audyssey set-up?. There are some reports of a different high-powered digital amp having issues.

I too am running Audyssey without any problems or issues. In fact, the Audyssey works pretty darn good.

Mike
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post #34 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Hmm, your post was the first I've heard of anything like that actually. Can you link me to some discussions on that?

http://axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...199768&fpart=4
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post #35 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 04:16 PM
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Seems like an Axiom specific problem. I've heard of no issues with any other ICEpower amps and Audyssey. I know there's at least ten guys using the Audyssey with different variation of ICE amps including the Rotel RBM-1077 which uses a topology that would be the most similar to the Axiom albeit with less power.

Reading that thread it seems Axiom's blaming it on the high power of the 1400-8 but @ 350w/ch it isn't in ball park of my 500w/ch ICE modules so that seems pretty fishy.

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #36 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 05:36 PM
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what are you guys using for power-conditioners? PS-Audio?
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post #37 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 05:55 PM
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My amp and IB sub amps are plugged into a Furman PL8 and my PJ, Pre-pro, Sat/Pvr and players are plugged into a PureAV UPS/VR on a seperate circuit.

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #38 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 06:36 PM
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I'm using one of the upscale Monster power strips. Normally I stay away from anything Monster, but I got a good deal on it. I live in SoCal, so we don't get lightening or storms so I'm not overly concerned about fried equipment. I used to live in Kansas, and boy, you need some mega power protection there.
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post #39 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

what are you guys using for power-conditioners? PS-Audio?

None. I was using a Monster HTS 3500 mkii power conditioner, but I am now using a very inexpensive Guerrilla Audio 9-Outlet Non-Current Limiting Power Strip. And you know, it really removed some background noise. I have heard very good things regarding PS-Audio's conditioners, but have never tried them.

I too am in California and we really don't need to worry about lightning or heavy storms to damage our equipment.

Mike
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post #40 of 1713 Old 03-12-2008, 07:52 PM
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I scored a couple of the SX-500 monoblocks and am enjoying shaking them out.

My setup is Jolida JD-100 > AR LS-3 > SX-500's. Mainly for 2-channel.

The SX-500's are clean and quiet, flat response not weighted high or low. Bass is t-i-g-h-t! My previous amp was sloppy and the Wyred amp is fast down low.

I was a bit disappointed in the amount of the low end and a seemingly strident high end but I have just started tube rolling and my conclusion is that these amps will give exactly what they get. It is not a forgiving amp but as far as I'm concerend, that is a good thing; tweak the front end. I swapped out the very detailed Electroharmonix tubes from the Jolida and dropped in some new-issue Mullards. The low end is now prodigious and the highs rolled off via the tubes. I don't think this is the final tube for me, though. I've ordered some Tungsram, as people rave about them in the Jolida. Like all, I am looking for the holy grail - detail, good low end, mids, and extended-but-smooth highs. I feel the amp is going to precisely communicate any upstream changes.

The input buffer is a nice feature. I just turned it on and the highs seem to have a little more presence, so that is good with the current tubes.

The monoblocks have a 4" blue horizontal power light that looks kinda cool, not too bright. Nice in the dark. Amps are solid.

EJ has answered all my questions. I think Wyred offers a good number of options, including mod packages should you want to go for the full monty. I might trade up to some SX-1000's because, as we all know, too much is never enough.
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post #41 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Hmm, your post was the first I've heard of anything like that actually. Can you link me to some discussions on that?


There is a A1400 thread here as well, and one of the person who had one fail was told by Axiom that it's very possible it was caused by Audyssey as well. Personally. I think Axiom is just trying to pass the buck and place the blame onto someone elses product. I think that there might be something wrong in the design of the input stage of the amp if you go by what Axiom is claiming that it is caused because it being 'overloaded/overdriven', that is really the root cause of it.



https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13333951

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13335011
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post #42 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

I think Axiom is just trying to pass the buck and place the blame onto someone elses product. I think that there might be something wrong in the design of the input stage of the amp if you go by what Axiom is claiming that it is caused because it being 'overloaded/overdriven', that is really the root cause of it.

That's also my take on what little I've read so far.

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post #43 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 12:01 PM
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EJ,

What is the standard connector grade that you use on the W4S amps? I was on the Cullen site and saw a wide variety of binding posts and RCA jacks.
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post #44 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
I think Axiom is just trying to pass the buck and place the blame onto someone elses product. I think that there might be something wrong in the design of the input stage of the amp if you go by what Axiom is claiming that it is caused because it being 'overloaded/overdriven', that is really the root cause of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

That's also my take on what little I've read so far.

I am one of the people (there are only a couple) who have expierenced this problem. First, the the A1400-8 is not 350W per channel. It is a different design than your Ice Powered amps in that all of the available current (1400W on a 16 amp circuit) is available to any channel or channels that need it. So by design, you could have 750W to the main L/R or 1400W to the front left if for example running Audyssey setup. The current is dynamically disrtibuted to channels as directed by the SSP. Here is a quote from Axiom's Alan Loft that explains it better than I ever could.

Quote:


The way Audyssey sets up the system is to increase the volume level to the amp until it ‘hears’ something. With an amp as powerful as the A-1400, this is a very dangerous approach. If the amp ‘sees’ more than 2.0 VRMS on the input (1.5VRMS is the standard for full power output of the A1400-8), it will more than likely do some damage somewhere. We believe that if the customer uses the manual setup to adjust the levels, he is unlikely to do any damage to either his speakers or the amplifier. The A-1400 is designed to follow the standard with a 1.5VRMS input producing full power output, and 1.7VRMS input as the clipping point. As you can see by the numbers, a little bit more input to the A1400 translates to a really big change in the amplifier's output. This is true for all very high powered amplifiers, ours included.

I have heard nothing conclusive yet but I can say that Axoim overnighted me another amp (from Canada to Calif) and has been great about working to resolve this and I am sure that they will. I can also say that this amp is unbelievably powerful, has a small form factor and is very cool running. One of these ICE based amps was my backup position if the Axoim didn't work out but at this point I am so impressed with the performance that you would have to as Chuck Heston would say "pry it out of my cold dead hands"... Audyssey or not...

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
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post #45 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundas View Post

Do these amps have any issues with Audyssey set-up?. There are some reports of a different high-powered digital amp having issues.

Same here, I haven't heard any negaives at all. After 100+ units in the field, the only complaint I recieved was that a customer couldn't use a socket or wrench on the binding posts. I've seen where this is possible to do, and see many amps come back with missing nuts on binding post (one of our customers' amps).

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post #46 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdrcr View Post

None. I was using a Monster HTS 3500 mkii power conditioner, but I am now using a very inexpensive Guerrilla Audio 9-Outlet Non-Current Limiting Power Strip. And you know, it really removed some background noise. I have heard very good things regarding PS-Audio's conditioners, but have never tried them.

I too am in California and we really don't need to worry about lightning or heavy storms to damage our equipment.

Mike

We have many "return to stock" units of PS Audio's that we can sell for a pretty good deal. And also warranty for a year. If anyone is interested to try, you can get a pretty good deal on these fully reconditioned units.

EJ Sarmento
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post #47 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by yngdiego View Post

EJ,

What is the standard connector grade that you use on the W4S amps? I was on the Cullen site and saw a wide variety of binding posts and RCA jacks.

To save on the cost of the unit, we use our own gold plated binding post for the stock multichannels which we also use on the D-SONIC. Our Mono amplifiers use WBT 0735 in the stock form. All of our amplifiers can be built with any binding post desired, we use WBT on mostly all mods, typically NextGen connectors. Same goes with the RCA's.

EJ Sarmento
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www.wyred4sound.com
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post #48 of 1713 Old 03-13-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am one of the people (there are only a couple) who have expierenced this problem. First, the the A1400-8 is not 350W per channel. It is a different design than your Ice Powered amps in that all of the available current (1400W on a 16 amp circuit) is available to any channel or channels that need it. So by design, you could have 750W to the main L/R or 1400W to the front left if for example running Audyssey setup. The current is dynamically disrtibuted to channels as directed by the SSP. Here is a quote from Axiom's Alan Loft that explains it better than I ever could.



I have heard nothing conclusive yet but I can say that Axoim overnighted me another amp (from Canada to Calif) and has been great about working to resolve this and I am sure that they will. I can also say that this amp is unbelievably powerful, has a small form factor and is very cool running. One of these ICE based amps was my backup position if the Axoim didn't work out but at this point I am so impressed with the performance that you would have to as Chuck Heston would say "pry it out of my cold dead hands"... Audyssey or not...

I'm glad to hear that they stand behind thier product and are willing to make it right. That says a lot about thier dedication, and customer service. The whole concept of their amplifier seems a little strange to me, I'm not sure if the output gain change would be a good thing based on input signal. What happens when it gets a fair amount of signal to all channels, and the powersupply runs out? Does it regulate it back down so it doesn't clip? If so, you would have a loud burst with 2 channels, then much quieter with all?

I'm curious to hear of the outcomes as well, please let us know what you find out with your new amplifier.

EJ Sarmento
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www.wyred4sound.com
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post #49 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 12:57 AM
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great thread,
Any more reviews on the wyred amps?
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post #50 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 02:52 PM
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^^^^^
I know there are some folks on from this forum that have recently ordered W4S amps. Hopefully, when they get a chance to have a listen, they will post some reviews.

Mike
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post #51 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 03:07 PM
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"It is a different design than your Ice Powered amps in that all of the available current (1400W on a 16 amp circuit) is available to any channel or channels that need it. So by design, you could have 750W to the main L/R or 1400W to the front left if for example running Audyssey setup. The current is dynamically disrtibuted to channels as directed by the SSP."

This sounds like marketing talk.

Any amp with a common power supply will behave this way, assuming the individual channels can handle the low impedances that will be required to get such high power.

Noah
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post #52 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"It is a different design than your Ice Powered amps in that all of the available current (1400W on a 16 amp circuit) is available to any channel or channels that need it. So by design, you could have 750W to the main L/R or 1400W to the front left if for example running Audyssey setup. The current is dynamically disrtibuted to channels as directed by the SSP."

This sounds like marketing talk.

Any amp with a common power supply will behave this way, assuming the individual channels can handle the low impedances that will be required to get such high power.


Maybe the fact it has a Switch Mode Power Supply vs a traditional one allows the more specific distribution?

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #53 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 05:14 PM
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Nope. SMPS is just more efficient than linear PS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Maybe the fact it has a Switch Mode Power Supply vs a traditional one allows the more specific distribution?


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post #54 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"It is a different design than your Ice Powered amps in that all of the available current (1400W on a 16 amp circuit) is available to any channel or channels that need it. So by design, you could have 750W to the main L/R or 1400W to the front left if for example running Audyssey setup. The current is dynamically disrtibuted to channels as directed by the SSP."

This sounds like marketing talk.

Any amp with a common power supply will behave this way, assuming the individual channels can handle the low impedances that will be required to get such high power.

Actually the Axiom guys are the antithesis of marketing hype people. Rather than speculate why don't you go to Axioms site, spend 5 minutes and watch the Video where the amps designer and Axioms president describe the amps unique features. Then, if you have questions you can ask the source(s).

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
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post #55 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Actually the Axiom guys are the antithesis of marketing hype people. Rather than speculate why don't you go to Axioms site, spend 5 minutes and watch the Video where the amps designer and Axioms president describe the amps unique features. Then, if you have questions you can ask the source(s).

I have done the above and still can't make ends meet with the hype. Basically the only sense that I can make out of it is that the power supply has the capability to power 1400W of power, the load is what will set the output power. This would only be possible if 1 channel is stout enough to put out 1400W in say 2 ohms. Basically, I would bet that if the channels are capable, you can output 1400W max from one, and 700W max from 2, so on and so forth. The main part I don't understand is how the input stage raises the power based on the apparent signal. Why would you want the gain to fluctuate even if it could?

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post #56 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdrcr View Post

^^^^^
I know there are some folks on from this forum that have recently ordered W4S amps. Hopefully, when they get a chance to have a listen, they will post some reviews.

Mike

just recieved a new wyred4sound amp. 7x500. Havnt had the chance to hook it up yet. I will try to get it up and running this weekend if I have time. I did open up the box. It comes doubled boxed and set into a foam support.
I have to say that the unit itself is a lot nicer looking then the web site pictures indicate. I wanted to hook it up with XLR connectors but there is no place around that has them under 20' or you want to spend $110 (3') per cable x 7. (not a snow balls chance in hell.)

perhaps EJ can chime in about SQ between balanced or unbalanced connectors. I might go with RCA connectors until I can order XLRs.
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post #57 of 1713 Old 03-14-2008, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slybasil View Post

Perhaps EJ can chime in about SQ between balanced or unbalanced connectors. I might go with RCA connectors until I can order XLRs.

I have the same question, I am debating between using a Denon AVR to drive my amp and an Integra 9.8...

I have been wondering if the XLR vs RCA question should make a big difference in my decision... EJ? others? What is the reality?
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post #58 of 1713 Old 03-15-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybasil View Post

just recieved a new wyred4sound amp. 7x500. Havnt had the chance to hook it up yet. I will try to get it up and running this weekend if I have time. I did open up the box. It comes doubled boxed and set into a foam support.
I have to say that the unit itself is a lot nicer looking then the web site pictures indicate. I wanted to hook it up with XLR connectors but there is no place around that has them under 20' or you want to spend $110 (3') per cable x 7. (not a snow balls chance in hell.)

perhaps EJ can chime in about SQ between balanced or unbalanced connectors. I might go with RCA connectors until I can order XLRs.

W4S does an excellent job packaging their amplifiers. When I first saw the box at my home, I thought it was for a picnic table, not for an amplifier. LOL! Yes, double-boxed with extra foam in between boxes.......I can't see anything destroying or damaging these things in shipment. I was just happy that the huge double box still fit through the ceiling and in my attic.

I have my amp connected with high quality RCA's. It was my understanding, that XLR's are only necessary over longer runs. Since my amp is very close to the processor, I did not think that the extra cost of XLR's is needed.

I can't wait to hear what you think of the amp.

Mike
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post #59 of 1713 Old 03-15-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybasil View Post

just recieved a new wyred4sound amp. 7x500. Havnt had the chance to hook it up yet. I will try to get it up and running this weekend if I have time. I did open up the box. It comes doubled boxed and set into a foam support.
I have to say that the unit itself is a lot nicer looking then the web site pictures indicate. I wanted to hook it up with XLR connectors but there is no place around that has them under 20' or you want to spend $110 (3') per cable x 7. (not a snow balls chance in hell.)

perhaps EJ can chime in about SQ between balanced or unbalanced connectors. I might go with RCA connectors until I can order XLRs.

Check out a couple of the sponsors above, Monoprice and Blue Jeans - they have em at reasonable prices and Blue Jeans does custom lengths.

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #60 of 1713 Old 03-15-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by phastlane View Post

I have the same question, I am debating between using a Denon AVR to drive my amp and an Integra 9.8...

I have been wondering if the XLR vs RCA question should make a big difference in my decision... EJ? others? What is the reality?

No I don't think it should make any difference.
What will make the difference between the Denon and the 9.8 is the quality of the analog output stage. I'm not saying one will be better than the other without having heard any of the 08 series receivers. I did have a 4306 here for a couple of weeks and it was a very good performer, certainly nothing stands out in my mind where it was significantly weaker than the 9.8 other than the Audyssey - which has been improved to the same level as the 9.8 in the 08 series. Going by memory alone (no A/B test) it didn't leave me with the same impression that the 9.8 does.
If you're not planning on using the Denons' amps at all then the 9.8 is by far the better value, with the 4308 costing around $2400. I would be reluctant to expect the same level of performance out of Denons' lower priced 3808, but you never know....

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, LG Oled55e6, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Monitor ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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