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-   -   Denon AVR 1909 and ATI HDMI card no audio (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1052385-denon-avr-1909-ati-hdmi-card-no-audio.html)

dariuszr 07-24-2008 08:55 PM

Like the title says. Hooked up ATI HD3200 based motherboard with 780G chipset (Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H) to 1909 and Mitsu WD-657Y tv and in CCC it shows up as a DENON-AVR DVI device, not HDMI. That means no audio and no picture scaling either.
The 780G setup is working fine with Onkyo 605, Sony DG820 and straight thru connection to TV. I know that they had update for the 3808CI to fix that, I just can't believe that brand new receiver has this bug. Of course in the 1909 upgrade may be impossible, unless they do it in the service center, provided they even acknowledge and fix it.
Now back to the drawing board, wht receiver to try next. 606 is out for the hum/buzzing, sony new line has it's own limitations, PIO 1018 doesn't have sound leveling, what to do?

dariuszr 07-25-2008 10:22 AM

Ok, i think it has something to do with the EDID that Denon returns. The extended block is either invalid (corrupted) or in "Denon" format. I will try to investigate tonight and see if that's the problem and if so than If I can correct it.

dklansky 07-26-2008 10:31 AM

It looks like ATI card does not read extended block properly. Instead there is a second copy of the primary block so the audio information is missing.
I've used Intel G33 based card and it read Denon'd edid properly.
This looks like a bug in the ATI software/hardware (surprise, surprise). I've noticed that several people also reported problems with ATI cards and HDMI audio on Yamaha and some Onkyo threads. I wonder if ATI will do anything about it. I for one will be calling them on Monday.
I wish I had geforce 8200 based board here so that i could try it with Denon. After all it also could be a problem with how Denon presents the edid when read. Timing issue ?

mpgxsvcd 07-26-2008 12:31 PM

The Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 have the same problem. There is no fix for it currently. Just keep hammering ATI! They will fix it in a couple of YEARS!

Here is the Yamaha thread about it.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14164770

dariuszr 08-01-2008 12:56 PM

My support ticket has been marked as "SOLVED" and closed today. Here is that last response form a few day long exchange:

"There has been reports of certain receivers not working properly with our products, and our engineering team is currently investigating the problem. It seems to be occuring with Denon receivers along with a few other brands. Any updates will be posted on our website. "

I hope thay will get to the bottom of this as the backup solution (8500GT + SPDIF over HDMI) is not working well for me.

sthulin 10-31-2008 07:40 AM

Was this issue ever solved? I recently purchased a 1909 and I am running into the same issue.

axell 11-03-2008 01:55 PM

Hi, same problem with my ATI HD4670 & 1909, it shows as DVI device not HDMI... crap! Any findings so far?

mpgxsvcd 11-04-2008 01:37 PM

ATI has stated that the Catalyst 8.11 drivers might fix the problem. Finally!

sthulin 11-04-2008 01:50 PM

Got a link? I didn't know 8.11 was out yet.

tphuynh 11-12-2008 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sthulin View Post

Got a link? I didn't know 8.11 was out yet.

I just read on another fourm that the 8.11 driver will be out in about 2 weeks which "hopefully" address the no sound issue over HDMI with some AV receivers. Finally a working solutions!!!

http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...threadid=97111

bwlonsdale 11-13-2008 06:59 AM

The official 8.11s officially don't work for me...

I've got a standalone blu-ray player on order instead. I have officially given up on ATI.

tphuynh 11-13-2008 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwlonsdale View Post

The official 8.11s officially don't work for me...

I've got a standalone blu-ray player on order instead. I have officially given up on ATI.

Which AV receiver do you have? Running Vista or XP?

The office 8.11 release here:
http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_ca...common-vista32

Give it a go guys!

sthulin 11-13-2008 11:29 AM

Tested it on Vista64 with a denon 1909 and an ati 3450 HDMI, no go. It still comes up as a DVI connection. I'm switching to NVIDIA next week to solve all this crazyness.

bwlonsdale 11-14-2008 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tphuynh View Post

Which AV receiver do you have? Running Vista or XP?

The office 8.11 release here:
hxxp://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=vista32/common-vista32

Give it a go guys!

Denon AVR 1909. Running Vista x86.

I have tried in every socket on the amp - it only ever shows up as a DVI device.

bwlonsdale 11-14-2008 09:48 AM

Just a thought - seeing as we know it's the mis-reading/mangling of the EDID data that's causing this issue, is there a way of getting the correct EDID data into the registry and tricking the drivers into thinking it's HDMI device with audio?

I'm looking at Pheonix EDID Editor, but no idea if it can do this or not, the postings I saw around customizing EDID data were mostly Linux related.

sthulin 11-14-2008 01:06 PM

As i understand it, the EDID of the denon is stored in a non writeable (via hdmi) area. in theory, if you can fool the computer, it should work fine, but i have yet to see an EDID spoofer driver.

gsolo 11-30-2008 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dariuszr View Post

Now back to the drawing board, wht receiver to try next. 606 is out for the hum/buzzing, sony new line has it's own limitations, PIO 1018 doesn't have sound leveling, what to do?


anymore input on what current receivers would work well with this Gigabyte?

bwlonsdale 12-02-2008 06:17 AM

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1043267&page=8

RandomFoe has found a workaround by creating your own monitor inf driver. Kind of what I was getting at earlier

Anyway - I tried his instructions to create a specific one for my Denon 1909 and Pioneer 435XDE combo, but although it now said there was a connection, there was again no choice in audio formats.

So...I thought I'd just try copying and pasting in what he had put in his attachment and hey presto - it appears to work!! I can see all the stereo/5.1/7.1 selections. However, I'm currently on a remote connection so can't actually hear anything...now the day can't end quick enough for me to get home and test...

I'm doing some reading on EDID format and will get back to Phoenix EDID Creator to see if that can give us a final (specific) solution for the Denon AVR 1909.

bwlonsdale 12-02-2008 07:01 AM

Phoenix Editor is a bust - looks to be rather old bit of software so it onyl knows about EDID 1.0 - there's certainly nothing about audio formats at all.

bwlonsdale 12-02-2008 07:32 AM

I've also tried using EnTech Moninfo and using the EDID values from the direct reading from the Denon - also a bust. I'll give it one last go for now by using the video section from the original post and the audio section from the Denon extension block.

I can confirm the audio is definintely working though - field services came in from work and I forced a test listen

bwlonsdale 12-02-2008 03:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I can report it's all working as expected now - seems I shouldn't do these things over a remote link.

I re-made the inf file (attached in zip) using the first block from my Pioneer 435XDE and the second block from the live view (using Moninfo).

Once I'd done that and reloaded the inf against the monitor, ATI drivers now report a combination of a Pioneer PDP and the Denon AVR. The combined settings show up as HDMI, so I got all the nice scaling options back, no more pissing about creating custom resolutions either.

I set up the audio and tested it out with a few different blu-rays, all work as expected from PowerDVD. PowerDVD will still either re-sample the audio if you select it to use 6 (or 8) speaker output. If you choose the HDMI output it will either output the full basic DD or DTS for DVD/blu-rays but only the core DTS from blu-rays encoded DTS HD Master Audio. Didn't try Dolby TruHD but I'm 99% sure that's the same, you only get the core. Still seems like Cyberlink need to work on the PAP. There are of course other options than PowerDVD to get the full output...

Anyway, enough rambling - here are the two important lines I replaced:-

[MS_EDID_OVERRIDE-1_AddReg]
HKR,EDID_OVERRIDE,"0",0x01,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x00,0x11,0xEE,0x12 ,0x00,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x00,0x12,0x01,0x03,0x80,0x50,0x2D ,0x78,0x0A,0x0D,0xC9,0xA0,0x57,0x47,0x98,0x27,0x12,0x48,0x4C ,0x20,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01 ,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x1D,0x80,0x18,0x71 ,0x1C,0x16,0x20,0x58,0x2C,0x25,0x00,0xC4,0x8E,0x21,0x00,0x00 ,0x9E,0x01,0x1D,0x80,0xD0,0x72,0x1C,0x16,0x20,0x10,0x2C,0x25 ,0x80,0xC4,0x8E,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x9E,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFC,0x00 ,0x44,0x45,0x4E,0x4F,0x4E,0x2D,0x41,0x56,0x41,0x4D,0x50,0x0A ,0x20,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFD,0x00,0x31,0x3D,0x0F,0x44,0x0F,0x00 ,0x0A,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x01,0x88
HKR,EDID_OVERRIDE,"1",0x01,0x02,0x03,0x45,0x75,0x5A,0x85,0x04,0x02,0x03,0x06,0x07 ,0x10,0x0E,0x0F,0x0A,0x0B,0x23,0x24,0x14,0x13,0x11,0x12,0x15 ,0x16,0x1F,0x1D,0x1E,0x19,0x1A,0x25,0x26,0x38,0x09,0x7F,0x07 ,0x0F,0x7F,0x07,0x15,0x07,0x50,0x3E,0x1F,0xC0,0x4D,0x02,0x00 ,0x57,0x06,0x00,0x67,0x54,0x00,0x5F,0x54,0x01,0x83,0x5F,0x00 ,0x00,0x68,0x03,0x0C,0x00,0x11,0x00,0x80,0x21,0x00,0x8C,0x0A ,0xD0,0x8A,0x20,0xE0,0x2D,0x10,0x10,0x3E,0x96,0x00,0x13,0x8E ,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x18,0x8C,0x0A,0xD0,0x90,0x20,0x40,0x31,0x20 ,0x0C,0x40,0x55,0x00,0x13,0x8E,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x18,0x00,0x00 ,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00 ,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x5E

Due to the limitations of the posting, please note that the long string of numbers is on one line for each entry, there are no carriage returns etc.

The second line is the important one for Denon 1909 users. The first one being of course from my Pioneer 435XDE. That's the one you'll need to replace to get your own customised setup.

If you use EnTech Moninfo, you should be able to get the EDID from the registry value for your monitor/TV to insert. If it doesn't appear then you'll need to hook the TV up directly to the graphics card and get a live reading from Moninfo and then swap back to the Denon.

To save anyone the hassle of typing a lot of numbers and adding 0x to 128 numbers, small tip is to use find and replace in notepad - search for a , and replace with ,0x

One little caveat for you - I don't think this will work under Vista x64 due to the unsigned driver restrictions. I'm not using it to test it. I am aware that MS recently changed their policy and now allow unsigned graphics driver to go on OK, but no idea on monitor drivers.

Let me know how you get on!

 

Denon_1909.zip 0.970703125k . file

ahha 12-04-2008 01:08 AM

Hi,

I get it work almost. I get audio from HDMI but when try to watch blu-ray movies with powerdvd 8. There is only 2ch available. i tried with both audio tracks dd and truehd. Same thing.

I'm not sure if i forgotten to close winamp. so i need to check it again when i go to home.

But there is hope. Thanks a lot!

bwlonsdale 12-04-2008 08:28 AM

I have read that the EDID data may vary from AVR to AVR. No idea why as it in theory should be exactly the same, given it's the same Denon 1909. Only way I can think of for there being a difference is that the second block contains some of the EDID data from your TV/monitor (the Yamaha thread supports that from a posting by Mikl1984)

In principle, the AVR has to read your TV's EDID, combine it with its own (so the correct range of resolutions supported by the TV/monitor are passed on) and present that to the graphics card driver. It was my understanding though that the combination stuff dealing with supported resolutions all happened in the first block and not the extension block (which contains the details of the audio formats supported). But I'll be the first to admit my understanding of it all is limited

So, although I posted what is a working set of data for me, it may be worth just double-checking and using your own from a live read with Moninfo for the Denon with everything connected and turned on for the second block of data. I was able to use the previously stored EDID for my Pioneer in the registry for the first block data (moninfo will display it) - but it may be worth plugging your TV/monitor into the graphics card directly and taking a live reading from that too.

As for PowerDVD - did you configure the Sound in Control Panel to 5.1 or 7.1? The default will be stereo. You may also need to tick the boxes for DD and DTS in the control panel applet. You can either have PowerDVD output to 6 or 8 speaker combination so it outputs PCM to the AVR, or choose HDMI output for bitstreaming. With PowerDVD though I don't think bitstreaming is worth it - as they downsample or spit out only the cores from HD audio formats. At least until they get PAP sorted.

From the Yamaha forum, here's the link to the MS article which made this all possible:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...edid_over.mspx

tjtj 12-06-2008 12:55 PM

bwlonsdale, thanks! It works perfect by using your file as is. I have a Sony LCD 46D3000 + Denon 1909 + Radeon 3870, and it has different resolutions than your TV (like pixelmapping at 1360 x 768) and it works great anyway (both sound & video). I tried using the data from monInfo but that didn't work.

I have one question though, I cannot change the sample rate of Realtek HDMI Output, it is set to 48khz and I cannot change it (greyed out), is this a limitation of the 3870 card?

jhoff80 12-06-2008 03:48 PM

Has anyone tried the Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device driver 2.09 found here: http://www.realtek.com/downloads/dow...&GetDown=false

Realtek makes the audio chip on the video cards.

I'm thinking of getting this receiver but only if it works with the ATI 4850. I don't think the .inf method will help me since I'm running x64.

bwlonsdale 12-08-2008 12:34 AM

I've installed the realtek ATI HDMI 2.09 driver, you'll probably need to install that to get past the stereo only limitation the built-in MS driver for the 4k cards. You can install the .inf file, but unless you get a signed cab file then you may need to press F8 every reboot. If you don't reboot too often (HTPC?) then you may find that works out for you.

tjtj, where is the sample rate greyed out for you? is that in the Sound control panel applet? Did u install the realtek driver? Bear in mind the 3870 won't do full 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM as it's not capable (4k only) so chances are you'll only get stereo as an option, but I think you should be able to choose higher than 48khz for it though - although you'll be stuck to bitstreaming DD or DTS with stereo LPCM.

I have been in touch with a nice chap from Anandtech who is helping get some visibility of this issue within ATI. ATI at least now recognise the issue which is something:

737-39986: Absence of Audio through the HDMI connection when using HDMI Receivers

He's mentioned that it's difficult to get ATI focused on these types of issues unless a direct report is made to them - I don't think helpdesk support cases seem to count, it's the ATI Driver Crew feedback that seems to matter more.

captain.ajax 12-19-2008 08:52 AM

3 Easy Steps:

1. Install Catalyst 8.11 (had lots of issues with 8.12)
2. Install Realtek 2.09 HDMI Audio driver
3. Use the Aux. HDMI input. Apparently the DVD and HDP inputs have different EDIDs which cause the ATI driver to incorrectly detect the receiver as a DVI display.

I hope this works for you guys as well.

gregchak 12-24-2008 03:47 AM

I finally have a driver configuration that seems to partly be working. I am using the 8.2 Catalyst drivers. When I plug the HDMI cable into my TV I get video and sound. When I plug it into my Denon AVR-1909 I get video but no sound. When I try to set my audio playback device, my Realtek HDMI Output device says that is is Not plugged in (screen shot attached). When plugged into my TV it says Working. Has anyone else experienced this issue before? I tried all the different HDMI inputs but none have any different effect. Right now using the HDP input.
LL

gregchak 12-27-2008 07:34 PM

I'd like to comment on my own post. I guess I should have read a bit more carefully to the above posts. I used the above mentioned inf. driver and it works perfectly. I am using Catalyst 8.2, Realtek 2.09 driver and getting all channels over HDMI. I think I will stick with 8.2 until something goes wrong.

Thank you so much bwlonsdale!

giannibini 12-28-2008 12:54 AM

Hi all,

I got the same problem ? How do you install this driver on Vista ?

Thanks for your response.

Cheers,
Gianni


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