Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 312 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9331 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobme23 View Post

Hi, I am very keen on getting the SC05. I have Klipsch RF3 fronts, RC3 center and RS3 surrounds driven by Marantz SR8000. The setup is really nice but I need HDMI switching capabilities and this one seems inline with my requirements.

Anyway, has anyone seen any issues with Klipsch speakers with this one? Also I have read about the differences between SC05 and SC07, any strong objections for settling for the SC05?

Please do let me know. Thanks in advance!

[I have Samsung LN4096D LCD, Comcast DVR and Philips DVP5992 DVD Player, and will upgrade to a Blu-Ray soon]

bobmm32, sorry don't have any experience with the Klipsch speakers, however a number of members here do..
You may want to check the first page and click on the member's reviews.. looks like at least 3 there with Klipsch speakers and another on page 2..
There's also a few coming from Marantz.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4#post14864114
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...0#post15593970

Unless you need dual HDMI out or component out for zone 2. Either receiver is great.

Good luck!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #9332 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dhahlen View Post

I believe so, however, it seems I may have to go back over my work.

Having messed up my own share of home wiring projects, they are not always as straightforward as they seem. It is easy to get stray currents, especially adding wiring in an older house that does not have a dedicated third wire/grounding system. A digital multimeter is a good investment. I have also found that hiring an electrician is also often a good investment. Not in any way meant as critial, just the voice of experience paying professionals to solve my little do-it-yourself projects.
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post #9333 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post


Trance, eh?

What I know about trance music you could fit in a thimble. So, I'm not the one to make recommendations regarding speakers to fit. But, I would think you'd want a sub that moves a lot of air, with a big driver, first and foremost ('ya know, the kind that makes your chest thump).

I've got my own recommendation there. But, it's not a very popular one. PM me if you're interested.

Klipsch, becase of their high efficiency, can hit high SPL, too. Might give those a look/listen for trance.

Nothing wrong with Def Tech, either.

Let us now what you decide.

Let me know your recommendation thru PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

when you say "trance music", do you mean stuff like richard bone, etc.? or something different?

My music preference is mostly into trance/dance from DJ Tiesto, Armin van buuren, Paul van dyk and others. I am not into slow music like Jazz at all.

Movies - I watch 2-4 bluray movies a week. And apparently Aperion + Pioneer sounds simply superb in Movies; at least to my ears.
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post #9334 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

................................I've got my own recommendation there. But, it's not a very popular one. PM me if you're interested.................................................

I thought sub you got is awesome! And really like the finish, graphicguy.

Everything I've read and your impressions, suggests it's a great sub!

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post #9335 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:03 PM
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Anyone using Ascend Sierra's with SC05? I am very interested in how music sounds, especially in 2 channel mode. Sierra's are only moderately efficient at 86-87 decibels. Would the internal amps in the SC05 power the Sierra's to decent SPL's?

I spoke to a dealer in Green Bay Wi. this morning, who is also authorized. He is offering the SC05 at unbelievably low price. Also, I would love to know what users of this receiver consider it's major shortcoming. Come on now- I am sure you can think of at least one.

From reading the manual online, I see that you cannot set indvidual crossovers for speakers. You must select a global one. I don't recall if you can go lower than 80HZ. That is a shortcoming in my opinion, as far as bass management.
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post #9336 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

Anyone using Ascend Sierra's with SC05? I am very interested in how music sounds, especially in 2 channel mode. Sierra's are only moderately efficient at 86-87 decibels. Would the internal amps in the SC05 power the Sierra's to decent SPL's?

I spoke to a dealer in Green Bay Wi. this morning, who is also authorized. He is offering the SC05 at unbelievably low price. Also, I would love to know what users of this receiver consider it's major shortcoming. Come on now- I am sure you can think of at least one.

From reading the manual online, I see that you cannot set indvidual crossovers for speakers. You must select a global one. I don't recall if you can go lower than 80HZ. That is a shortcoming in my opinion, as far as bass management.

ccotenj runs sierras in his setup.. don't believe he's ever mentioned anything about "lack" of power to drive them..
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4#post14864114

One major frustration:
Sure wish they had built a bottle opener on the side...
very annoying to get up, go to the kitchen, find a bottle opener..
go back, sit down, then remember you left the remote in the kitchen...

X-overs are 50, 80, 100, 150 and 200

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post #9337 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

I thought sub you got is awesome! And really like the finish, graphicguy.

Everything I've read and your impressions, suggests it's a great sub!

CHP and icemanu.....I'll just post here. I have an AV123 MFW 15. It is a great sub. Designed by Mark Seaton (Seaton Submersive). it includes a 15" Eminence driver. Big and very inert cabinet (that's pretty to look at....mine happens to be finished in Diamond Cherry), with a big slotted port. In short, it plays as well with music as it does with movies. It moves a lot of air, with great extension and SPL.

Kind of a price/performance phenomena......comparable to some high buck subs.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11


However, there was 2 runs of this sub. The first ones had few issues. The 2nd run was plagued with amp issues due to the amp manufacturer using "non-spec" parts. As a side note, most sub manufacturers use amps sourced from China. AV123 was no different in this regard. The later runs of the sub's amps from their Chinese source took it upon themselves to change inductor suppliers....in turn, using less quality parts.

This resulted in an inordinate amount of amp failures in the 2nd run. And, in turn, the sub being removed from the market.

The amps were redesigned and a new source was chosen to manufacture them. I have it on good authority (a very good, lengthy conversation with the President of AV123, Mark Schifter) that these subs will return to the market in very short order (a few weeks) better than ever.

The reason I didn't get too in-depth before was the previous amp issues caused quite a stir. They're rectified. When they do re-enter the market in the next few weeks, I think the price is going to be mighty tempting, too.

Back to the topic at hand, the MFW would give you the visceral "punch" I think you're looking for with trance music. I wanted to lay out all the facts before you make a decision, however.

I really like those Aperions, too. But, if you are looking for speakers that continue in that visceral vein, I'd say some Klipsch towers might fit the bill. They're super efficient, and can achieve some impressive SPL in their own right. Plus, most clubs that I've heard "trance" music (which is admittedly rare for me) use some form of the "horns" that Klipsch is famous for.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #9338 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

Anyone using Ascend Sierra's with SC05? I am very interested in how music sounds, especially in 2 channel mode. Sierra's are only moderately efficient at 86-87 decibels. Would the internal amps in the SC05 power the Sierra's to decent SPL's?

You should be able to crank out over 100dB with those speakers in stereo, which is a more than "decent" SPL, at least by my "old guy" standards. Try out this SPL Calculator, plugging in your own room info and decide for yourself.

Quote:
From reading the manual online, I see that you cannot set indvidual crossovers for speakers. You must select a global one. I don't recall if you can go lower than 80HZ. That is a shortcoming in my opinion, as far as bass management.

Some well informed audiophiles consider that a feature, not a shortcoming. Check this "Secrets" feature article for details, but to summarize their view: "If you want consistent bass response from each channel of your 5.1 system, in our opinion, you're best to set all speakers to "Small", set them all to the same crossover point, and set that point no lower than what you are comfortable throwing away from the LFE channel."

BTW, you can select a 50Hz crossover point, although most use the de facto standard 80Hz as recommended by THX and others.

Edit: I see the always-quicker-than-I CHP_VR beat me to the last point. Again.
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post #9339 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

Anyone using Ascend Sierra's with SC05? I am very interested in how music sounds, especially in 2 channel mode. Sierra's are only moderately efficient at 86-87 decibels. Would the internal amps in the SC05 power the Sierra's to decent SPL's?

I spoke to a dealer in Green Bay Wi. this morning, who is also authorized. He is offering the SC05 at unbelievably low price. Also, I would love to know what users of this receiver consider it's major shortcoming. Come on now- I am sure you can think of at least one.

From reading the manual online, I see that you cannot set indvidual crossovers for speakers. You must select a global one. I don't recall if you can go lower than 80HZ. That is a shortcoming in my opinion, as far as bass management.

The SC-05 is an outstanding receiver.
A few minor quibbles:
Lack of "pure" 2.1 mode - no correction to mains, just X-over to sub - though this can easily be created in MCACC.
No USB port on back - messes up good looks (and cabinet door) to have thumb drive or iPod cord sticking out of front
HMG interface is clunky, seems to drop server connections

That's a pretty short list - the sound makes up for it
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post #9340 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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graphicguy,

That's a gorgeous subwoofer!


"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #9341 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link MacFan!

Added it to the front page with your LFE and Crossover settings

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #9342 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:48 PM
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MacFan....that's a pretty slick calculation tool.

Thanks!

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #9343 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 01:59 PM
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You're welcome. I'm surprised I could provide anything new to you two guys, though.
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post #9344 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhahlen View Post

I am going to go pick up a voltage regular and see how that works....

Buy something like this - Receptacle Tester & Circuit Analyzer

Cheap and will tell you exactly whats wrong

SnowNut
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post #9345 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

dhahlen;
I believe that's only a surge suppressor... graphicguy and I were recommending a power conditioner as well...
And Alerion brought up an additional good point.. a grounding/wiring issue.

How about something like the Monster Power 3600 MKII or the Monster Power HDP 1800?
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post #9346 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by snownut View Post

Buy something like this - Receptacle Tester & Circuit Analyzer

Cheap and will tell you exactly whats wrong

We (my friend and I, whom I greatly trust his work) used one of those when installing to test power before we plugged anything in. However, i did not flip any switches around the house to see if it changed.
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post #9347 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snownut View Post

Buy something like this - Receptacle Tester & Circuit Analyzer

Cheap and will tell you exactly whats wrong

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100031636

Cheap @ Home Depot, I'll get one tonight.
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post #9348 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhahlen View Post

How about something like the Monster Power 3600 MKII or the Monster Power HDP 1800?

Not sure if those are power conditioners or just surge suppressors and filters....
Maybe someone who owns one can answer this..

I've always used power conditioners to take care of small voltage fluctuations. The H15 I switched to does this plus acts as a surge suppressor and filter.... the next step up from this is the same but with battery backup.

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post #9349 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 03:29 PM
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Can anyone get their MCACC info to transfer to a PC?
I've tried many,many times with my SC-05 and always get timed out.
Any help? Please
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post #9350 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Not sure if those are power conditioners or just surge suppressors and filters....
Maybe someone who owns one can answer this..

I've always used power conditioners to take care of small voltage fluctuations. The H15 I switched to does this plus acts as a surge suppressor and filter.... the next step up from this is the same but with battery backup.

Yeah, neither regulates the voltage =/ I need to stick in a voltmeter and checked what I am getting at the outlet.
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post #9351 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by duggy40 View Post

Can anyone get their MCACC info to transfer to a PC?
I've tried many,many times with my SC-05 and always get timed out.
Any help? Please

using the serial port? correct com port and baud rate set in the software? Make sure you are using the com port which your pc has assigned for serial. Usually COM1-4.
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post #9352 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duggy40 View Post

Can anyone get their MCACC info to transfer to a PC?
I've tried many,many times with my SC-05 and always get timed out.
Any help? Please

In addition to what dhahlen noted,
Cable is very important, it must be a null cable.

I use this cable:
(same one mentioned in the MCACC manual)
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0201663
and it works fine, another null cable I used did not work (I got the timeout messages like you did).

If you are using a USB to serial adaptor (members in the SC-09 thread have been sucessful using an adoptor when their computer didn't have a serial port) that will just give you a straight connection.. you will still need a null cable (as above link) as well.

If you've done all that:
Another thing is to make sure you are using the correct com port (see page 9 of the SC-07 MCACC manual.)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0708.pdf
Also, set the receiver to "Output PC" in the MCACC Data Check menu before clicking receive in the software application.

Hope that helps

EDIT:
UPDATE
8-06-09




Amsinay found this working solution:
He also noted that the new MCACC PC sofware (version 2.2) that will work on Vista now.


Serial to USB Cable ID:2067

USB to RS232 DB9 male(Serial) / DB25 male Converter Cable ($8.27)


and
Null modem cable ID: 478

Null Modem DB 9 F/F cable Molded - 10ft ($1.52) <-not a typo



Original posts:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16952213

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16954473

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #9353 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

Anyone using Ascend Sierra's with SC05? I am very interested in how music sounds, especially in 2 channel mode. Sierra's are only moderately efficient at 86-87 decibels. Would the internal amps in the SC05 power the Sierra's to decent SPL's?

as charles mentioned, i am, 5 of them in a 5.1 set up (and then a 7.1 with htm-200se's for the backs)... well, i'm temporarily in between sierra's since i sold my naturals in anticipation of the cherry's arriving...

you will have no problem driving them to decent spl levels with the sc-05... actually, you will have no problem driving them to indecent spl levels should you so desire...

i don't think you will be disappointed with the combination... fwiw, i listen to all types of music, but a good 75% of it is orchestral in nature...

as usual, ymmv, imo, ime, etc. plus i'm a complete pio and ascend ho'...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #9354 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 05:52 PM
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ya,thanks
I had to get a gender adapter-DB9 female to DB9 female,since it's male out of the 05.
I'm using a USB to Serial Cable adapter kit with the software (which always worked).As my PC or laptop does'nt have a serial port.
I have to use USB port three to get the retrieving data,bar graph,but after several moments,it says "timed out".
I dont know about the baud rate mentioned.
Anymore suggestions?
Thanks
I've installed the software in both PC and Laptop and both give the same "TIMED OUT" result
Maybe I should describe my method.
I do full auto calibrate,then I go back to manual and do the reverb with EG "ON".
I then go back to data management and select output to PC and then open the MCACC application,from my desktop(PC and laptop),and then choose file,retrieve and the COM 3 and then the bar graph shows,but then say's "timed out"
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post #9355 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhahlen View Post

How about something like the Monster Power 3600 MKII or the Monster Power HDP 1800?

Not sure about this, but I THINK the 3600 Mk II offers filters (surge protection, too). I'm basing that on the presumption that the 3600 is the sequel to my 3500 Mk II.

Mine has an analog meter on the front that shows voltage and amperage fluctuations outbound from the unit. It's rock solid and stable. Ever since I installed it, I no longer suffer any light dimming when I power up my HT (as was the case when I didn't have it), either. But, although new, mine did not come in a box, or with any instructions whatsoever.

If it doesn't do the job, you can always return it.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #9356 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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goes back to the cable, duggy40...
Are you sure it's a null cable?
Most serial null cables are female to female....

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #9357 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Not sure about this, but I THINK the 3600 Mk II offers filters (surge protection, too). I'm basing that on the presumption that the 3600 is the sequel to my 3500 Mk II.

Mine has an analog meter on the front that shows voltage and amperage fluctuations outbound from the unit. It's rock solid and stable. Ever since I installed it, I no longer suffer any light dimming when I power up my HT (as was the case when I didn't have it), either. But, although new, mine did not come in a box, or with any instructions whatsoever.

If it doesn't do the job, you can always return it.

I have the 3600 MK II. It filters, "conditions" power and has surge protection. It offers voltage protection over-voltage, but does not stabilize voltage swings. It's a really pretty plug strip.
Though must say not a touch of static or impurity in picture and sound since I installed it.
It will indicate ground state, voltage and amperage, but will not solve OP's issue.
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post #9358 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:33 PM
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CHP-VR
It's a Serial RS232C to USB adapter,with software.It allows connection from rs232c(serial) to a non rs232c(serial) equipt PC or laptop,or a PC or laptop with a USB connections only(no serial,or rs 232c).Once it's software is install into the PC or laptop.
It works for all other instances.It's Male serial on one end and USB on the other end with a chip box in line.Radio Shack part#26-183 USB to Serial Cable.Connects a serial DB9 equipped peripheral to a USB port.
I don't know,I mean that's what one would use.I can't go out and but a new PC just to have a serial,RS232c input.
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post #9359 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by duggy40 View Post

CHP-VR
It's a Serial RS232C to USB adapter,with software.It allows connection from rs232c(serial) to a non rs232c(serial) equipt PC or laptop,or a PC or laptop with a USB connections only(no serial,or rs 232c).Once it's software is install into the PC or laptop.
It works for all other instances.It's Male serial on one end and USB on the other end with a chip box in line.Radio Shack part#26-183 USB to Serial Cable.Connects a serial DB9 equipped peripheral to a USB port.
I don't know,I mean that's what one would use.I can't go out and but a new PC just to have a serial,RS232c input.

I use the same cable, esp for connecting to cisco devices.

The default port for me in Vista is COM10. And the drivers had to be correctly installed for it to function.
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post #9360 of 17207 Old 05-19-2009, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

In addition to what dhahlen noted,
Cable is very important, it must be a null cable.

I use this cable:
(same one mentioned in the MCACC manual)
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0201663
and it works fine, another null cable I used did not work (I got the timeout messages like you did).

If you are using a USB to serial adaptor (members in the SC-09 thread have been sucessful using an adoptor when their computer didn't have a serial port) that will just give you a straight connection.. you will still need a null cable (as above link) as well.
If you've done all that:
Another thing is to make sure you are using the correct com port (see page 9 of the SC-07 MCACC manual.)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0708.pdf
Also, set the receiver to "Output PC" in the MCACC Data Check menu before clicking receive in the software application.

Hope that helps

duggy40,
A null cable is a different kind of serial cable. Pioneer does not want a 'regular' serial connection with your computer. Google, or search this and 09 thread for 'null cable.'
In this case, does the null cable go from SC to RS232 end of RS232-USB adapter?
Apologies if this is obvious, but I had no idea what a null cable did, other than hearing the name.
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