Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post


BTW....do you have an opinion regarding the power difference (albeit slight) between the SC 05/07? We've theorized in here that the ICE amp modules are the same between both units. Yet, Pioneer just "rates" them differently, without any real world differences.

If I was a betting man, I would say they were the same (My own opinion here). By the measurements, the SC-05 isn't lacking for any power!

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post #2312 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 09:34 AM
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Looking at the features it seems to me that the new Onkyos specially the 876 is the biggest bang for features/price - its about 50 lbs, has Reon, Audyssey eq and dynamic volume, 2 years warranty, all inputs scaled, isf calibration, thx ultra, hd radio etc.

Dave - any chance you are reviewing the Onkyos in the near future?
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post #2313 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys/gals:

Been trying to update and keep the front page up to date.
If you wrote a review or impression it should be on linked on this page:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post14864114

Please let me know if I missed anyone or if your information needs to be updated or corrected.. (example: speaker system, previous AVR, pictures etc.)
Also, if anything needs to be added or removed from the first page.
Thanks!

Recent review additions:

Robert George
Mikazaru
VGI

Recent front page additions:

CAD Drawings with dimensions: SC-07 SC-05
Good explanation of PQLS by welwynnick counterpoint by FilmMixer and counter-counterpoint
Differences THX Select2 (SC-05) and THX Ultra2 (SC-07) certification -
Ultimate AV Magazine SC-05 review
Zone 1 and 2 configuration example by Geoff

Hopefully, this is/will be of use to new/old/and future SC owners

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2314 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

If I was a betting man, I would say they were the same (My own opinion here). By the measurements, the SC-05 isn't lacking for any power!

David, I think most would agree that the SC 05/07 aren't lacking for power, as you state. I think most of us speculated that the ICE amps between the two models were the same, too.

To further that, I suspect that Pioneer didn't submit the SC 05 for THX Ultra 2 certification, opting to just certify it for THX Select, instead.

While, I've debated about going the separates route (specifically, Emotiva UMC and LPA), the SC 05/07 series has me wondering if the time has come when the delta between what like priced separates offer that the Elite's don't.

Like you, I have no need for any video processing. And, given Pioneer's reputation for making AVRs that simply work, out of the box, it's making it tougher and tougher for me to make that "separates" case.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2315 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

While, I've debated about going the separates route (specifically, Emotiva UMC and LPA), the SC 05/07 series has me wondering if the time has come when the delta between what like priced separates offer that the Elite's don't.

Do it, get the SC-05! You know I did I don't miss my LPA-1 at all. Boy, it was tough selling it off too. I was gonna match it up with the UMC-1 too.
Anyway, I know I did the right thing
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post #2316 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 01:18 PM
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graphicguy,

I am also looking at the SC-05. I currently have an external amp sunfire TGA-5200 and I am using an old pioneer vsx-812 avr.
I am looking at the UMC-1 from emotiva and just go separates. however the more I read about the new UMC-1 the more I am thinking it will not be for me.

I actually posted a question on the emotiva forum and my question was a simple one. at what level is the UMC-1 competing against?. I was actually passed and some even responded the Onkyo TX-SR606 which is about msrp 700.
If that is its competion then I don't see any point on getting the UMC-1. because the Pioneer sc-05 is probably one or two levels better. - in all fairness I have not tries the Onkyo. and the UMC-1 is not even out.
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post #2317 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olilugo View Post

I actually posted a question on the emotiva forum and my question was a simple one. at what level is the UMC-1 competing against?. I was actually passed and some even responded the Onkyo TX-SR606 which is about msrp 700.

I would not put a lot of merit into that response. My guess is the UMC-1 will be any awesome piece of gear, that will be in a class by itself when it comes out.
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post #2318 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 01:37 PM
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Thanks Gov, I was really trying to convince myself that I should go with the pioneer sc-05. I feel like one step forward two steps back... he he he..
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post #2319 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by olilugo View Post

Thanks Gov, I was really trying to convince myself that I should go with the pioneer sc-05. I feel like one step forward two steps back... he he he..

Well......I went with an SC-05 and canceled my pre-order on a UMC-1. I have no regrets!
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post #2320 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

In my SC-09 review, there is an explanation on why Pioneer is doing this. From my perspective, it isn't a big deal and here's why...

I started to reply to this question & saw your post. I couldn't have said it any better..great explanation.

And why buy the SC-09? Primarily for the audio!

I think it's accurate to say most of us in the SC-09 owners thread have gotten over the inability to scale analog 1080i to 1080p and HDMI and moved on to enjoy the other attributes of this excellent flagship receiver. The most power in any AVR, an excellent calibration system, boatloads of options & features to tweak.

What's not to like?
ss9001

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post #2321 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 02:46 PM
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For those of you with BDP-51/05's. Chris Walker(Walkamo) just informed us in the BDP thread that FW 1.17 will be available on the Pioneer website later this afternoon!!

WooWoo!

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #2322 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
Good to hear Chris is back!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2323 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I started to reply to this question & saw your post. I couldn't have said it any better..great explanation.

And why buy the SC-09? Primarily for the audio!

I think it's accurate to say most of us in the SC-09 owners thread have gotten over the inability to scale analog 1080i to 1080p and HDMI and moved on to enjoy the other attributes of this excellent flagship receiver. The most power in any AVR, an excellent calibration system, boatloads of options & features to tweak.

What's not to like?
ss9001

Everytime I see the SC-09 on display, I start drooling.... it's that good looking.
I'm seriously thinking about velcroing a tiny LCD monitor to my SC-07.
Performance and Audio-wise I'm very very (+ one more very) happy with the SC-07.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2324 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 04:12 PM
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the sc-09 has some SERIOUS bling factor, no doubt...

i just couldn't bring myself to spend that much money... i dearly wanted that cool little lcd screen though...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #2325 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 04:16 PM
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I'll try and get the Onkyo for a review. We are on a waiting list for the Integra pre/pro.

David Vaughn Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)
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post #2326 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

I'll try and get the Onkyo for a review. We are on a waiting list for the Integra pre/pro.

Dave,

If you can't or won't answer this question I entirely understand....

I've always wondered what these waiting lists are all about. Do the CE's actually just send around a very limited number of boxes? Is it typical for a review from source to source to be based on the exact same box?

I wonder because, what is the point of that, they have plenty to spread around, don't they. And if they do, why pick just a few units to send around. Are these cherry picked units to any extent in your opinion?

And of course, I'm talking in general here...Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, HK.....no reference to any particular brand or AVR model intended or implied.

Thanks in advance if you can answer....

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post #2327 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

For those of you with BDP-51/05's. Chris Walker(Walkamo) just informed us in the BDP thread that FW 1.17 will be available on the Pioneer website later this afternoon!!

WooWoo!

Thanks for passing the word! I don't visit there as much as I used to. Blue
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post #2328 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 05:47 PM
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I have read the various postings (e.g. #766 and 767) regarding a wireless internet connection. I have a Linksys N Ultra range plus (WRT310N) which I usae for my in house wireless connections. I went to BestBuy today and was sold a Linksys Wireless G Broadband Router (WRT54G2) which I was told could be used as an access point with the above mentioned router and my SONY laptop. I am running Windows Vista OS. I spent the aftrnoon trying to configure the system, but all I accomplished was screwing up my laptop connections to the internet and could not really find a proper set up on the Linksys web site for this new router. I tried their "Configuring an Access Point as a Wireless Bridge" but this seems to work only for their WAP54G. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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post #2329 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Doodles, I use WAP54Gs, for my hookup... I dunno, but I think you're going to need something like this for your configuration (again, I'm not positive):

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=0937433028B63

Linsys has a 24hour support line:
Linksys Support: (800) 326-7114
you may want to call and see what they suggest so you can take it back if they sold you the wrong thing...
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=9127637314H22
Let us know what happens.

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Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2330 of 17207 Old 11-13-2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Hi -- Contemplating an SC-07 for my family room and adjacent areas... I really like the unit, until I came across this in a review:
"No video processing of HDMI inputs
No video processing of 1080i/720p component signals" Is this serious? It will only upscale 4801/p signals over component? And it won't touch anything that's HDMI? If so, it's a deal killer - I can't imagine Pioneer hamstringing the video output like that on a $2200 Elite product, so I hope the experts in this thread can comment. Thanks!

Yes it's true:

I confirmed it with tech support via E-mail. HD signals from any source, HDMI/Component ARE NOT touched or converted. 1080i remains 1080i.

So you need a good scalar to make any changes.

This is probably due to the huge issues with SD/HD color space conversion etc. Onkyo can't get it to work. I don't blame Pioneer for not trying at all.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #2331 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 04:52 AM
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Just got my SC-07 last night and my first impressions compared to the Yamaha 3900 I returned are:

Sound quality for movies and cable Tv is better, more crisp and clear.

Sound quality for CD's and my Squeezebox is not as good as the Yamaha. I was very surprised because of all the the posts I read about the SC-07's musical sound quality.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

I have not run the MMAC yet, however I did not run the YPAQ on the Yamaha either. They were both used just as they came out of the box. The Yamaha sounded much fuller and richer for music. The Pioneer sounds hollow in comparison. I am running B&W speakers all the way around. As far as power is concerned they both seem about the same to me. The Pioneer can't match the Yamaha for DSP modes. I am going to play with the SC-07 some more over the next couple of days to see how I can improve the sound quality for music. I am also going to call Pioneer today and ask them several questions.

The SC-07 is a great looking unit compared to the Yamaha, but as far as musical sound is concerned for me the jury is still out.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.
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post #2332 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post

Looking at the features it seems to me that the new Onkyos specially the 876 is the biggest bang for features/price - its about 50 lbs, has Reon, Audyssey eq and dynamic volume, 2 years warranty, all inputs scaled, isf calibration, thx ultra, hd radio etc.

Dave - any chance you are reviewing the Onkyos in the near future?

I just got rid of my Onkyo 805, and was GLAD I did! Yes, they do seem to have a (smoke & mirrors) best bang for your buck, but in less than a year, you too will be howling mad like the rest of us were when they suddenly stop supporting your unit with FW fixes. Their answer to most of our problems? If you want a fix for XYZ problem, then buy our newer xx6 models! We put the fixes into those.

And sure, the 876, just like in the 875, has the REON chip in it. But just like Edithomaso said in post #2330 just above, Onkyo still has not fixed their color space conversion as of yet. And in the Onkyo FW post, there are a lot of screaming mad users ticked off at the (lack of) support from Onkyo.

Not to mention read up the horror stories on the NR1000 posts!!!! The so called "Future Proof" flagship AVR of theirs, which had replaceable cards in it just like a computer so you could update it, were left high and dry by Onkyo. And after enough folks screamed out loud, and a few class actions being sought after, Onkyo's answer was to offer them a few hundered dollars off their latest $3000 AVR. These folks had spent over $7000+ on their NR1000 with the promise of always being upgradeable!!!!

So needless to say, you'll never see an Onkyo in my house ever again!!!

Now, if you need HQV Reon for standard DVD upscalling, I would strongly suggest looking at the Samsung 2500 or the Best Buy exclusive 2550 BD player. Both have the Reon in them, do a fantastic job of upscaling DVD's, and after a recent SURPRISE FW update = both now get NetFlix online, and the BB exclusive 2550 also gets Pandora!
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post #2333 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 06:28 AM
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But now on the subject of the Samsung 2500/2550, has anyone gotten the just released Hellboy 2 BD yet?

Hellboy 2 is supposed to be DTS HD Master Audio 7.1 surround sound. I have it going to my SC-05 receiver via HDMI and using the audiophile bitstream out setting (setting for the SC-05 to do the decoding). The display on the SC-05 has the tiny diagram of our speaker layout on it. When we get actual 7.1 audio, it will display all 7.1 speakers as active. While playing Hellboy 2, my SC-05 only would display 5.1 speakers being used. Weird. I still got sound out of the two surround back speakers, but it was showing my receiver only getting a 5.1 soundtrack going to it. With Auto/Direct it would display DTS HDMA as the signal, and in THX mode, it would just show THX Cinema, not THX Select 2 Cinema.

Anyone else experience this? Sadly the one part of this Samsung that is weak, is the info display. The Samsung info display is not as informative as the PS3, Sony S350, or any of the other BD players, so it is hard to do troubleshooting for problems like this.
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post #2334 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Well......I went with an SC-05 and canceled my pre-order on a UMC-1. I have no regrets!

Gov....as you can tell, I keep teetering on the fence. I truly love Pio gear. It started with the 59 TXi (which was one of the best pieces of AVR gear I've ever owned). That unit is still going strong as a friend bought it from me. I love my KURO 6020.

While it's my sincere hope that nothing is amiss with the Emotiva UMC-1 when it's finally released, history tells me that any of these small boutique manufacturers have "teething" issues when their products are first released.

I've also got zero complaints with my current Marantz SR 8002. It's a solid, good sounding AVR in its own right, and I got a good deal on it. But, I do miss my Elite 59 TXi, for numerous reasons. From what I'm hearing here, the SC series are worthy upgrades to that piece. I'd love to hear comments from people who've owned both the 59 and now the SC.

If I can get close to $900-$1,000 for a mint Marantz SR 8002, and sell my Emotiva LPA-1/LMC-1 for close to $400-$500, I'll probably pull the trigger on an SC. While the SC 09 would be my heart's desire, that's way more than I want to spend.

Regarding Onkyo, very briefly I had an 805. That unit doesn't come close to any upper end Elite or Marantz AVR. Forget for a moment some of the operational issues it had (pops, clicks, had difficulty locking onto signals), it didn't come close to the sound of either the Marantz SR 8002 or Pio Elite AVRs...even my old 59 TXi. From what I'm hearing, the 806 is a step down from the 805, to boot.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2335 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 06:46 AM
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gjnockie....I don't know if you did any speaker set up, using an SPL meter. Or, if you set up speaker distances. But, out of the box, as you said you set up both the Yammy and SC, you're not taking advantage of what the gear is truly capable of. We don't even know if you're routing any LFE to your sub.

I'd suggest running MCACC and let it do the work for you. And then posting back your impressions. It really is quite good.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2336 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjnockie View Post

Just got my SC-07 last night and my first impressions compared to the Yamaha 3900 I returned are:

Sound quality for movies and cable Tv is better, more crisp and clear.

Sound quality for CD's and my Squeezebox is not as good as the Yamaha. I was very surprised because of all the the posts I read about the SC-07's musical sound quality.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

I have not run the MMAC yet, however I did not run the YPAQ on the Yamaha either. They were both used just as they came out of the box. The Yamaha sounded much fuller and richer for music. The Pioneer sounds hollow in comparison. I am running B&W speakers all the way around. As far as power is concerned they both seem about the same to me. The Pioneer can't match the Yamaha for DSP modes. I am going to play with the SC-07 some more over the next couple of days to see how I can improve the sound quality for music. I am also going to call Pioneer today and ask them several questions.

The SC-07 is a great looking unit compared to the Yamaha, but as far as musical sound is concerned for me the jury is still out.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Give the ICE amps some ample use before judging them. They take time to break in.

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post #2337 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Rocky View Post

But now on the subject of the Samsung 2500/2550, has anyone gotten the just released Hellboy 2 BD yet?

Hellboy 2 is supposed to be DTS HD Master Audio 7.1 surround sound. I have it going to my SC-05 receiver via HDMI and using the audiophile bitstream out setting (setting for the SC-05 to do the decoding). The display on the SC-05 has the tiny diagram of our speaker layout on it. When we get actual 7.1 audio, it will display all 7.1 speakers as active. While playing Hellboy 2, my SC-05 only would display 5.1 speakers being used. Weird. I still got sound out of the two surround back speakers, but it was showing my receiver only getting a 5.1 soundtrack going to it. With Auto/Direct it would display DTS HDMA as the signal, and in THX mode, it would just show THX Cinema, not THX Select 2 Cinema.

Anyone else experience this? Sadly the one part of this Samsung that is weak, is the info display. The Samsung info display is not as informative as the PS3, Sony S350, or any of the other BD players, so it is hard to do troubleshooting for problems like this.


I have a 2550 and Hellboy should be at my house either today or tomorrow. I will let you know what my SC-07 reports.
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post #2338 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

Dave,

If you can't or won't answer this question I entirely understand....

I've always wondered what these waiting lists are all about. Do the CE's actually just send around a very limited number of boxes? Is it typical for a review from source to source to be based on the exact same box?

They do have more than one to send out I presume, but it depends on the company. Some are better than others.

Quote:


I wonder because, what is the point of that, they have plenty to spread around, don't they. And if they do, why pick just a few units to send around. Are these cherry picked units to any extent in your opinion?

I doubt they are cherry picked because I've received a "bad" unit before from one supplier. It needed to be sent back with a new replacement (and I noted it in my review as well.)

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Thanks in advance if you can answer....

Your welcome.

David Vaughn Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)
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post #2339 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Yes it's true:

I confirmed it with tech support via E-mail. HD signals from any source, HDMI/Component ARE NOT touched or converted. 1080i remains 1080i.

So you need a good scalar to make any changes.

This is probably due to the huge issues with SD/HD color space conversion etc. Onkyo can't get it to work. I don't blame Pioneer for not trying at all.

Other companies have been able to get their video sections to do it - it comes down to what level of quality you can realistically expect.
I've been spoiled by experiences with Lumagen (past) and Anthem (current) with the ease of transcoding and scaling of all video signals to a common one to allow a single cable solution to the monitor with an optimized signal. Of course, those solutions aren't cheap - I'm trying to find a less expensive way to change the AVR in my family room from an older Sony ES unit to something that is more user friendly on the connection side, and the Pioneer fit the bill until I discovered the video processing schema is almost worthless to me. It's got all the bells and whistles, great hardware, and is a really pretty unit cosmetically, but I can't get at the video processing chips unless I feed it a 480 signal over component or s video with sources that output 720P or 1080i over HDMI or component. Not going to do that.
So, back to square one. Discovered that the Yamaha 3900, Onkyo 876, and a few others can transcode and scale everything - but the quality of the video output is suspect. Several of the user reviews I've read have not been too glowing. Now I'm toying with the idea of still going with Pioneer, letting it transcode/pass HDMI signals, then adding a small external scaler on the back end to scale to 1080p. Bit of a hassle and added expense to get where I want to be video-wise, but it does not seem that there are any single-box solutions that will fit my application without going into the pricing stratosphere. Even then the SC-09 at $7K doesn't get me there!
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post #2340 of 17207 Old 11-14-2008, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gjnockie View Post

Just got my SC-07 last night and my first impressions compared to the Yamaha 3900 I returned are:

Sound quality for movies and cable Tv is better, more crisp and clear.

Sound quality for CD's and my Squeezebox is not as good as the Yamaha. I was very surprised because of all the the posts I read about the SC-07's musical sound quality.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

I have not run the MMAC yet, however I did not run the YPAQ on the Yamaha either. They were both used just as they came out of the box. The Yamaha sounded much fuller and richer for music. The Pioneer sounds hollow in comparison. I am running B&W speakers all the way around. As far as power is concerned they both seem about the same to me. The Pioneer can't match the Yamaha for DSP modes. I am going to play with the SC-07 some more over the next couple of days to see how I can improve the sound quality for music. I am also going to call Pioneer today and ask them several questions.

The SC-07 is a great looking unit compared to the Yamaha, but as far as musical sound is concerned for me the jury is still out.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

First, congratulations, gjnockie

I agree 100% with graphicsguy.. the MCACC won't take more than 10 minutes.. give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised with the results.

As Dave says,..give them some time to break-in.. They sound great new, but get even better over time.

I'm kinda surprised you didn't see a more drastic difference..
again, try the MCACC and let us know how it goes!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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