"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 216 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6451 of 6817 Old 01-04-2018, 12:31 AM
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What is the recommended way to calibrate for stereo AND for multichannel on a LX801?


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post #6452 of 6817 Old 01-04-2018, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Front display looks perfectly normal to me:
http://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com/...ver/vsx-lx302/
Perhaps the "Basic Advanced Manual" (their words, not mine) might help:
http://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com/.../downloads.php
Enjoy your new toy.
Michael
That Dolby Atmos text is showing in the display for few seconds if you hit the status button(when you watch BD with Atmos soundtrack). Old 1011 was showing the decoded sound the whole time, it has a bigger and nicer display, quite funny if you think how old it is.

This is from the manual:

Quote:
MCACC Data Check
You can check the number of speaker channels connected and the content and values you
have set for each of the speaker settings.
■ Speaker Setting
You can check the number of speaker channels connected and the large and small settings
you have set for the low range reproduction capabilities for each of the speakers.
■ Channel Level
You can check the output level settings for each of the speakers.
■ Speaker Distance
You can check the distance from each speaker to the listening position.
■ Acoustic Calibration EQ
You can check the calibration values for the frequency characteristics of each speaker that
were set in "Manual MCACC".
You can only check the Manual MCACC adjustments(quite useless, as you can check them also from the manual mode), there is no way to check or adjust what the receiver have done automaticly.
Quite impossible to adjust the Manual MCACC frequency bands when you can't check any measuring data, frequency plots or adjustments the automatic mode has done.

Last edited by Thuppu; 01-04-2018 at 02:40 AM.
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post #6453 of 6817 Old 01-04-2018, 05:55 AM
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For accurate measurements, check this out:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
So much for "new and improved," eh?
Michael

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post #6454 of 6817 Old 01-23-2018, 05:44 PM
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I was using a Denon AVR-X2400H with dual subwoofers both set at 9 and after Audyssey calibration my sub level was -3.5 db. However the receiver is in need of warranty service so in the meantime I am using Pioneer VSX-1131. After MCACC the subwoofer level is +9.5 db. Should I turn the gain up on the subwoofers until MCACC gives me a level closer to 0? I am using REL subwoofers.
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post #6455 of 6817 Old 01-23-2018, 08:26 PM
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You can, but anything under 10dB is considered "acceptable." Of course, you'll probably want to raise the sub level in the AVR after MCACC calibration to get (what around here is considered) reasonable bass response, anyway.
Michael

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post #6456 of 6817 Old 02-08-2018, 06:04 PM
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hey guys, i have a problem. i don't think its mcacc related, but idk.

anyway.

pioneer vxs-01txh.

just went to watch a movie. powered up all gear. no sound, at all. troubleshooting comes up with nothing.
also, the speaker indicators on display do not show up at all. this has something to do with it, but idk what.

it has done this since new, once every 1-2 years. but the last 5'ish years it has not done it.
then, for reasons unknown, it will start working.

any ideas ? thanx

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post #6457 of 6817 Old 02-17-2018, 09:30 PM
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Exclamation

Hey Guys,

I come here today seeking some tips or any help to better understand my system. For almost an year I have the pioneer elite 801 and I love it. A couple weeks ago I decided that was time to amplify all channel (I have 5.1.2). My room is not big about 12x11x8 for just my wife and I. After installing everything and treating the room with 8 acoustic panels (still want to get 2 more) I decided that was time to play deep with my auto calibration. First thing I came across is that those new pioneers they don't the option (keep speaker settings) to change the speaker setting to small and the crossover to the value the you want and then rerun the auto cal (just full cal). If you try to do that the receiver automatically changes the the default values. I called pioneer and they said that once you calibrate you just have to go and change and leave it, the receiver will use those settings. After finishing all the calibration I ran the reverb to try the flattest possible using pioneer standards 30-50ms. Since I have ZERO experience is that anything that I should change on my settings? Like delay, Symmetry into another cal. type? I'm sorry but I just don't have a base line to work with. What is a good reverb graph? What is bad?

Here is some pics of my graphs post-calibration and my setup.

Quote:
THE ROOM / MCACC / SPK LEVELS




Quote:
LEFT, RIGHT AND CENTER




Quote:
SURROUNDS AND ATMOS





Thanks in advance to all of you from the community.
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post #6458 of 6817 Old 02-17-2018, 09:54 PM
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Have you seen the first post of this thread?
If you're going to get serious, you should get measurements, especially before you start hanging acoustic panels willy-nilly.
See the link in my sig to REW.
Michael

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post #6459 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Have you seen the first post of this thread?
If you're going to get serious, you should get measurements, especially before you start hanging acoustic panels willy-nilly.
See the link in my sig to REW.
Michael
Yes my friend I did and actually I did everything following that "tutorial". However those settings are no longer present in the new model such as just AUTO CAL instead of FULL AUTO and also, the option to do a custom calibration setting the receiver to keep the speaker settings once you change them to small and to crossover to what you like. Oh I almost forgot there's a step that recommends you to save the preset before calibrate the reverb to the memory 4-5-6 and my receiver only has 3.

So some of the steps I had to skip or couldn't do it.

Regarding the acoustic panels I had them install by the company who makes them. I don't think you have to first run auto cal then hang acoustic panel I guess is the completely opposite. Am I right?

Just to make sure what the link? Is there any new tutorial for the new pioneers?

Thanks
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post #6460 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 08:04 AM
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Well, then, if the company that made them installed them, then they must be exactly what you need.

Sorry, but if you really want to know what's going on, you need measurements.
I fixed the link; it goes to here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
FWIW, I like "all channel adjust." I think each speaker should have its own calibration.
I then use REW to find the best crossover. And sub distance for multiple subs. And for lots of other stuff.
Yes, you're opening up a whole can of worms. But it can be a fun hobby if you want.
Of course, you may also want to see the link to "Get out."
Michael

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post #6461 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Well, then, if the company that made them installed them, then they must be exactly what you need.

Sorry, but if you really want to know what's going on, you need measurements.
I fixed the link; it goes to here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
FWIW, I like "all channel adjust." I think each speaker should have its own calibration.
I then use REW to find the best crossover. And sub distance for multiple subs. And for lots of other stuff.
Yes, you're opening up a whole can of worms. But it can be a fun hobby if you want.
Of course, you may also want to see the link to "Get out."
Michael
thanks for everything,

I wont lie that all this new calibration thing is pretty overwhelming. I've downloaded the PDF with 130+ pages of pure knowledge. Do you think that once you read all of that you would be able to tweak your sound like never before? Do you really think that even those self called AUTO CAL - PRO blah blah blah are not enough for a good calibration?

thanks a lot
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post #6462 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 04:22 PM
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Auto calibration is probably "good enough" for most people. If you like the results, then no one is going to berate you (not much, anyway ).
But if you want to make the most of your system, measurements are the way to go.
Don't be put off by the size of Jerry's Guide. It has been a labor of love over many years with input from many people. If you follow the steps one at a time, you will be able to improve your system dramatically. You don't need to know the science behind it; treat it as a cook book. Lots of help is available on that thread, as you can see.
The typical set-up is a notebook computer with an hdmi output. I use my HTPC. Assuming you have that, the investment is a little over $100 for a microphone and stand.
What did you pay for the acoustic panels? See what I mean?
Even if you use it only to find the best position for your speakers (I saw a difference between toeing in my fronts and facing them forward) and manually tweaking the settings in MCACC, being able to see the results of what you're doing is much better than "Yup, it sounds better to me."
Since your AVR has three memories, you can do some experiments. Have you tried the set-up with three mic positions? Where you have the mic when running MCACC can make a dramatic difference.
Fun awaits!
Michael

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post #6463 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Auto calibration is probably "good enough" for most people. If you like the results, then no one is going to berate you (not much, anyway ).
But if you want to make the most of your system, measurements are the way to go.
Don't be put off by the size of Jerry's Guide. It has been a labor of love over many years with input from many people. If you follow the steps one at a time, you will be able to improve your system dramatically. You don't need to know the science behind it; treat it as a cook book. Lots of help is available on that thread, as you can see.
The typical set-up is a notebook computer with an hdmi output. I use my HTPC. Assuming you have that, the investment is a little over $100 for a microphone and stand.
What did you pay for the acoustic panels? See what I mean?
Even if you use it only to find the best position for your speakers (I saw a difference between toeing in my fronts and facing them forward) and manually tweaking the settings in MCACC, being able to see the results of what you're doing is much better than "Yup, it sounds better to me."
Since your AVR has three memories, you can do some experiments. Have you tried the set-up with three mic positions? Where you have the mic when running MCACC can make a dramatic difference.
Fun awaits!
Michael
Again Mike a HUGE thanks.

I was literally reading every single page of that holy guide. I've just ordered the usb mic. While reading the guide it came to a point where I've lost it. So many graphs, types of graphs and to interpret them. Do I have to understand all of them? What should I run first? Is the REW a "post tweaking" after running the Mcacc Pro to make it even more precise? Definitely something to spent weeks learning and testing. My mic (the one that came with the AVR) is attached to a boom stand right in the middle of the room at ear level. As far as toeing the speakers I toed them juuuust a little bit. Also, just try erasing everything and did only to M1 All Channels to see if was better but, for some reason when I finish the full auto and change the speakers to small and try to run the reverb measurement no data is shown. that's so freaking weird.

Quote:
MIC PLACEMENT


One thing that I've never know how to properly setup was my sub. Is it connected the way that was suppose to be? I'm using it as down firing since I have carpet.

Level / Phase / LFE / Bypass



thanks for everything my fellow AVS member.
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post #6464 of 6817 Old 02-18-2018, 07:22 PM
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Unless you stand in the middle of the room, you want the mic pretty much where your head is at MLP (main listening position). Use another memory setting on the AVR and re-run MCACC auto, using all channel adjust and the mic where it belongs. Then, during playback, switch between the two memory settings and see if you hear a difference. I'll bet you will.
Understanding the graphs comes one step at a time. Don't try to run through it all at once. Most of us have spent many, many hours over weeks/months/years trying to improve one aspect or another of our systems. Hence, rabbit hole.
Now, the subwoofer is another story.
If you have the flexibility, search for "subwoofer crawl" and do that while you're waiting for your mic to arrive. Since bass sounds are omnidirectional, I doubt it matters whether you have the sub facing down or forward, since, apparently, it's designed for either. It will be easier when you can use REW, but your ears will be able to help you here. And it's good practice.
LFE in from the AVR. Gain so that sub level on AVR is close to 0dB after running MCACC. Then you'll probably want to raise it on the sub (house curve).
If you need help, PM me; I don't want this to get too far OT, especially since it's already been covered elsewhere.
Michael

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post #6465 of 6817 Old 02-19-2018, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Unless you stand in the middle of the room, you want the mic pretty much where your head is at MLP (main listening position). Use another memory setting on the AVR and re-run MCACC auto, using all channel adjust and the mic where it belongs. Then, during playback, switch between the two memory settings and see if you hear a difference. I'll bet you will.
Understanding the graphs comes one step at a time. Don't try to run through it all at once. Most of us have spent many, many hours over weeks/months/years trying to improve one aspect or another of our systems. Hence, rabbit hole.
Now, the subwoofer is another story.
If you have the flexibility, search for "subwoofer crawl" and do that while you're waiting for your mic to arrive. Since bass sounds are omnidirectional, I doubt it matters whether you have the sub facing down or forward, since, apparently, it's designed for either. It will be easier when you can use REW, but your ears will be able to help you here. And it's good practice.
LFE in from the AVR. Gain so that sub level on AVR is close to 0dB after running MCACC. Then you'll probably want to raise it on the sub (house curve).
If you need help, PM me; I don't want this to get too far OT, especially since it's already been covered elsewhere.
Michael
Thanks Mike,

Will do in case I have any further questions.


Thanks for your time.
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post #6466 of 6817 Old 02-25-2018, 08:31 PM
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Can anyone recommend a tripod to use with the standard MCACC mic? Will a regular musician's microphone stand fit the bill?
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post #6467 of 6817 Old 02-25-2018, 09:15 PM
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Yes. Here's a cheap one: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-...SIN=B019NY2PKG
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6468 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 11:25 AM
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Good day!


1. I've searched this large forum, but come up empty. Full MCACC has ran, now do you need to rerun the MCACC after changing crossover and large speaker setting to small?


2. If my center and surround are rated 85hz do I change the MCACC from 80hz (80 set by Full Auto) to 100hz.


Thanks!
Steve
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post #6469 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 11:36 AM
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If you re-run MCACC, it will reset xo and speakers, so, no.
What do you mean by "rated 85Hz"? If that's as low as they go, I would definitely try xo at 100Hz.
It took you 6 years to post?
Welcome.
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post #6470 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
If you re-run MCACC, it will reset xo and speakers, so, no.
What do you mean by "rated 85Hz"? If that's as low as they go, I would definitely try xo at 100Hz.
It took you 6 years to post?
Welcome.
Michael
What I mean is do I need to rerun in manual MCACC and keep speaker settings to get a true calibration after changing from large to small and crossover from 80 to 100 after full auto. I like my calibration now does anything get affected if I change after the fact speaker setting and crossover? Will the receiver Pioneer 1021 use the new settings after the fact?


My surrounds and center are rated 85Hz-50KHz but floor standing rated 40Hz and up.


I am a big reader and even after 6 years feel I have very little to add to the in depth knowledge most users here have. As well I am do'er and see what works instead of asking a lot questions but I have no idea what is going inside the receiver.


6 years might have been a long wait.
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post #6471 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swestswest View Post
Good day!

1. I've searched this large forum, but come up empty. Full MCACC has ran, now do you need to rerun the MCACC after changing crossover and large speaker setting to small?

2. If my center and surround are rated 85hz do I change the MCACC from 80hz (80 set by Full Auto) to 100hz.

Thanks!
Steve
1. No.

2. I would but there's a catch... MCACC has only a single global crossover setting, unless that has changed recently, so it will use the same crossover for all speakers. I hope I am wrong and that has been changed, but either way if the center and surrounds are only good to 85 Hz you need a higher crossover. What are you L/R speakers rated?
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Last edited by DonH50; 02-27-2018 at 02:09 PM.
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post #6472 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
1. No.

2. I would but there's a catch... MCACC has only a single global crossover setting, unless that has changed recently, so it will the the crossover for all speakers. I hope I am wrong and that has been changed, but either way if the center and surrounds are only good to 85 Hz you need a higher crossover. What are you L/R speakers rated?

You are correct one crossover for all.
L and R are rated 45Hz-50KHz. Sony SS MF550H
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post #6473 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 02:36 PM
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Why is it whenever I run MCACC on my Pioneer SC-LX501 I get different values for channel level every time? The results usually are varied between .5 db to 1 db.
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post #6474 of 6817 Old 02-27-2018, 05:22 PM
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That's probably in the measurement error and you would have to have no run-to-run variation in mic placement or anything else in the room (including where you are, where everything else else, temperature and humidity, etc. though the latter two are very unlikely the issue) for it to be identical. I wouldn't worry about that small a variation. That said, when I had my Pioneer, it was essentially spot-on run-to-run when I kept the mic and everything else completely fixed in position between runs.

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post #6475 of 6817 Old 03-13-2018, 01:35 AM
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Hi everybody

forgive me if this have already been answered along this 216 page long thread but I need a bit of help understanding the EQ Pro time settings. I now have a mk sound s-150 series setup with X10 sub and when running in default 80-160ms the bass from the sub is very tame, but when using 30-50ms it is so different I mean my wall suddenly reacted to the force awakens interrogation scene wich I did not on 80-160ms. It is almost to much, around 40min into wind river when the fbi agent sweeps the house I was outright unbearable. I have not changed the sub volume after mcacc setup.

how does the time period affect the bass? low = more bass?

I have tried to connect a pc with rs232 cable but my sclx85 does not see it so I cannot post picture from pc
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post #6476 of 6817 Old 03-13-2018, 05:57 PM
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I have tried to search to find answers to a few questions with my Pioneer SC87

1. Does MCACC have something similar to DEQ on Audyssey? I would like to hear more bass at lower volumes.

2. I have a SVS PB12-NSD subwoofer and a Klipsch 12". After calibration, I got -4.5. Should I turn the gain up on the subwoofer and get more of a negative number so I can safely turn it up 3db?

3. How do you change from Symmetry, All Channel, and Front align?

I've learned a lot from this thread and I appreciate any help.

Thanks,
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post #6477 of 6817 Old 03-13-2018, 07:58 PM
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1. Not part of MCACC, but, if you see S.RTRV in the menu, it's Sound Retriever, sort of a loudness contour that does the trick.
2. You can turn the sub up as much as you want, if that's what you mean. It's getting enough of a signal at -4.5 from the avr.
3. Left and right arrow keys. I prefer "all channel," myself.
Michael

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post #6478 of 6817 Old 03-14-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
1. Not part of MCACC, but, if you see S.RTRV in the menu, it's Sound Retriever, sort of a loudness contour that does the trick.
2. You can turn the sub up as much as you want, if that's what you mean. It's getting enough of a signal at -4.5 from the avr.
3. Left and right arrow keys. I prefer "all channel," myself.
Michael
Thanks,
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post #6479 of 6817 Old 03-15-2018, 09:38 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexicon1 View Post
Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3
Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.
"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.

Work Flow:

1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).

2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)

3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.

4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.

5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.

6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.

Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.

7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)

Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.
Is this setup still relevant in 2018?

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #6480 of 6817 Old 03-15-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPainMD View Post
Is this setup still relevant in 2018?
The options to do this are not there on Pioneer VSX-1131 and Pioneer SC-LX501
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