"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 217 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6481 of 6817 Old 03-21-2018, 10:52 AM
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Sc 95

I have a sc 95 receiver running dual svs sb 2000 subwoofers. When I run the full auto setup I have to lower the gain know on the first sub to about 10 oclock for it to go through, anything higher than that the mcaac says my sub is to loud. The second sub which is located closer to the mlp it has to be lower than 10 oclock for it to come back as not to loud. Is this normal? I heard you should not adjust the gain on the sub once you run the mcaac is this true?
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post #6482 of 6817 Old 03-21-2018, 08:54 PM
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I own an SC 1522K and I'm curious if when I fully disconnect power my most recent calibration is lost. Any way to verify either way? Any feedback would be amazing.
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post #6483 of 6817 Old 03-22-2018, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhead90 View Post
I own an SC 1522K and I'm curious if when I fully disconnect power my most recent calibration is lost. Any way to verify either way? Any feedback would be amazing.


No, you don’t loose anything, even if disconnected for months...


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post #6484 of 6817 Old 03-22-2018, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post
1. Does MCACC have something similar to DEQ on Audyssey? I would like to hear more bass at lower volumes.
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
1. Not part of MCACC, but, if you see S.RTRV in the menu, it's Sound Retriever, sort of a loudness contour that does the trick.
Michael, are you sure Sound Retriever adjusts the bass as volume decreases? From the manual description, it does not seem to indicate it will adjust it at all...

From the SC-97 manual: Auto Sound Retriever
The Auto Sound Retriever feature employs DSP technology to restore sound pressure and smooth jagged arti- facts left over after compression.
With some audio inputs, the Sound Retriever effect is automatically optimized based on the bitrate information of the contents that have been input to achieve high sound quality.











Last edited by schwaggs; 03-22-2018 at 05:18 AM.
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post #6485 of 6817 Old 03-22-2018, 05:32 PM
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I'm not sure how "dynamic" the change is, since I never thought to check it at different volume settings. If I get around to it again in the near future (and I remember ), I'll run sweeps at different volumes.
In the meantime, here are sound retriever off and on:





and, if you're also curious about what dialogue enhancement does (only affects center channel):



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post #6486 of 6817 Old 03-22-2018, 07:21 PM
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My ancient SC-27 has Loudness, DRC (Dynamic Range Control), and other settings that might help. Might be worth a look through the manual.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6487 of 6817 Old 03-22-2018, 07:54 PM
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The manual?!?! Noooooooo!!!
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post #6488 of 6817 Old 03-23-2018, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The manual?!?! Noooooooo!!!



I wonder how many threads would be left, and how many posts they would have, if the first response was RTFM.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6489 of 6817 Old 03-23-2018, 01:43 PM
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The way most manuals are written today, probably not that many less.
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post #6490 of 6817 Old 03-23-2018, 02:42 PM
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Good point. I had to pull out my disk cloner the other day and had forgotten just how hard the manual is to follow. Not too mention that the manual and labels on the device disagree on which is "source" and "target". Always lovely going to clone a disk and realizing you could be cloning a blank disk onto your working OS disk.

But in this case (MCACC) the manual is pretty clear, or at least mine is, on this question. Not so much on some others...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6491 of 6817 Old 03-23-2018, 04:10 PM
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Hey everyone. I apologize in advance. I hate to jump into a thread this old, bit it looks like it's still alive. I think the fact that there are 217 pages in this thread is a pretty good indication that Pioneer should consider clarifying some of the MCACC instructions.

I have the sc-lx801. I have been using it for a while and have calibrate several times. I have it sounding pretty good, but I have never completed a calibration and thought to myself, "yeah, that was easy and did exactly what it was supposed to do." Like another recent poster, I have issues between auto and manual MCACC. I follow the instructions from the manuals (basic and advanced) as well as those posted early in this thread. It seems the procedure has changed some, because there is no longer a "keep settings" option under auto MCACC. Here is the problem in a nutshell.

I run the full-auto MCACC cal. House is quiet and mic is in a good position. MCACC sets my mains to "Large" even though they roll off below 80Hz (measured with REQ). The subwoofer is set so low it might as well be turned off. I already know why this happens. Lots of reverb. I can fix this by changing the measurement window in MCACC Pro. That's where the issue comes in.

I run the reverb measurement and see that the default window is bad. The 30ms-50ms is much better. I manually set my speaker size and xover frequency. Then I set the measurement window to 30ms-50ms and run auto EQ from MCACC Pro. The result sounds infinitely better but too quiet. I check settings, and MCACC pro set all of the small speakers to -12dB and the sub to -15dB. The standard auto MCACC set the small speakers to various levels around -3dB and the sub to.... I don't remember but pretty low (may have still been -15dB). I pulled out the old SPL meter (c-weighted with slow averaging) and ran the built in Pioneer test signals. The auto MCACC level settings measure 73dB with the volume set to 0. Not surprisingly, the MCACC Pro calibration measures 64dB. I fixed this issue by manually moving all of the levels up 9dB and confirming with the SPL meter.

So I'm left scratching my head a little. The instructions in the advanced manual are a little vague. They say run auto MCACC, check reverb, change time, run pro EQ cal. Then it lists all of the manual setting with instructions like "select up and down arrow to set speakers to the desired level." I don;t see where it says what the test tone levels are. I assume 75dB at reference like other products. I also assumed MCACC pro would set the reference level rather than setting all small speakers to -12dB. It seems to have adjusted the distance but not the levels.

I must be doing something wrong, right?
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post #6492 of 6817 Old 03-24-2018, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The manual?!?! Noooooooo!!!
That's always been my reaction as well, especially with technical manuals. Several years ago I decided to change things and feed my anal retentive ways at the same time.

Note: I use Acrobat Pro XI, and I doubt the free version will let you do much, but boxed versions of XI can be found for cheap on eBay. No longer supported but a bargain considering the current version is now an online rental.

I always download manuals in .pdf format... the search function in Acrobat alone is worth it. Otherwise, as long as the file isn't password protected you can make it better.

Create a personal list on the first page with embedded links to their exact locations within the manual. You can highlight as you see fit, even assign them different colors to help you identify them, especially if two or more take you to the same page. If one item on the first page requires you to reference different areas of the manual, just create a chain of links. Create notes anywhere you want within the manual. You can even add a blank page for long notes, or to copy/paste/edit the info from a multiple link item, onto the same page.

Yeah, I got too much time on my hands but hey, I'm retired
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post #6493 of 6817 Old 03-26-2018, 02:00 PM
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Can someone please explain what the various time delays does to the ? I know that I get better bass by changing from default 80-160 but I fell that I miss some details in the sound field on 30-50 or 20-40ms especially on the treable. I know I ha e asked similar questions before but got no answer so I am trying again. I have mk sound s150 system
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post #6494 of 6817 Old 03-26-2018, 08:24 PM
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The different time delays determine the window within which the calibration measurement will be captured. It is not necessarily true that certain windows will result in more bass. It strictly depends on the characteristics of your listening environment. If your room has significant reverberations (most do) you may have to capture an earlier measurement to capture the speaker response rather than the speaker plus reverberation. The correct time window depends on the rate at which the reverberated energy grows. My listening room shows an increase of about 12db from 40ms to 100ms due to reverberation. I get a much better calibration using the 30-50ms window than I get using the default window (80-160ms I think). The result is just as you describe. The calibration using the default window measures strong reverberation at low frequencies and lowers the subwoofer level. Hope that helps.
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post #6495 of 6817 Old 03-26-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I'm not sure how "dynamic" the change is, since I never thought to check it at different volume settings. If I get around to it again in the near future (and I remember ), I'll run sweeps at different volumes.
It seems Sound Retriever adds about 5dB to the bass and treble. It does NOT appear to be "dynamic" (i.e., adding more at lower volumes than at higher).



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post #6496 of 6817 Old 03-27-2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Pick092070 View Post
The different time delays determine the window within which the calibration measurement will be captured. It is not necessarily true that certain windows will result in more bass. It strictly depends on the characteristics of your listening environment. If your room has significant reverberations (most do) you may have to capture an earlier measurement to capture the speaker response rather than the speaker plus reverberation. The correct time window depends on the rate at which the reverberated energy grows. My listening room shows an increase of about 12db from 40ms to 100ms due to reverberation. I get a much better calibration using the 30-50ms window than I get using the default window (80-160ms I think). The result is just as you describe. The calibration using the default window measures strong reverberation at low frequencies and lowers the subwoofer level. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the reply. even though the bass is better and have more punch on the lower settings 30-50 and 20-40ms it also tends to be a bit to boomey on certain scenes. If I want something in between should I then try to go a bit higher like 80-100ms or is there something in the EQ settings that can change the boom? I am considering to only use the speaker distance and level set by mcacc and turn off EQ,soundwave and full band phase control
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post #6497 of 6817 Old 03-28-2018, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by moleman74 View Post
I am considering to only use the speaker distance and level set by mcacc and turn off EQ,soundwave and full band phase control
Why?
Do you have separate controls for your sub(s)?
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post #6498 of 6817 Old 03-28-2018, 05:51 AM
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No but since it is the eq that changes the bass that could be a way to go. With 60-180ms it is lacking bass and on 30-50 and 20-40 it gets to boomey. I don’t know how else to get the punch without the boomy rumbling
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post #6499 of 6817 Old 03-28-2018, 02:10 PM
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Which AVR do you have?

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #6500 of 6817 Old 03-29-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by moleman74 View Post
No but since it is the eq that changes the bass that could be a way to go. With 60-180ms it is lacking bass and on 30-50 and 20-40 it gets to boomey. I don’t know how else to get the punch without the boomy rumbling
Unfortunately, this is the balance. I also have reverberation issues around 30Hz. If I measure in the later window, energy will build, and MCACC will measure about 12dB higher (direct subwoofer radiation plus reverberation specific to my listening room) and will attenuate the subwoofer. This result in overall weak and unsatisfying bass response. Measuring in an earlier widow allows MCACC to capture more of the direct sound from the subwoofer and less of the reverberated energy, resulting in louder, thicker, more satisfying bass response. While this result is more pleasing to listed to, it is not perfect. The fact is, my listening environment (and apparently your too) has reverberation issues at low frequencies. You really can't equalize away the reverberation problem. After running MCACC using the early 20-40ms or 30-50ms windows, the direct sound from the subwoofer is stronger and more balanced to the rest of the system. Fast, punchy signals from the subwoofer will be much better represented. Longer low frequency notes, however, will still suffer as the reverberated energy builds over time, resulting in the louder, more "boomey" sound. It is unavoidable.

My solution is a compromise. using the manual EQ. For me, running MCACC with the 30-50ms window provides the best results. I have manually identified the most offensive reverberation frequency in my room (I have standing wave at 30Hz along the long dimension of my room). I go into manual EQ and attenuate the subwoofer by 4dB at 30Hz only. This robs an otherwise awesome subwoofer of a little punch, but makes the experience much less fatiguing by reducing the overpowering notes at 30Hz.

Your only other real options involve more drastic measures, like installing bass traps, relocating your subwoofer, or installing additional subwoofers in more locations. For me , these are not good options because my listening room is also a living room. The good news is, I can get reasonably good results with the settings described above.

Hope this helps.
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post #6501 of 6817 Old 03-29-2018, 05:57 AM
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Unfortunately, this is the balance. I also have reverberation issues around 30Hz. If I measure in the later window, energy will build, and MCACC will measure about 12dB higher (direct subwoofer radiation plus reverberation specific to my listening room) and will attenuate the subwoofer. This result in overall weak and unsatisfying bass response. Measuring in an earlier widow allows MCACC to capture more of the direct sound from the subwoofer and less of the reverberated energy, resulting in louder, thicker, more satisfying bass response. While this result is more pleasing to listed to, it is not perfect. The fact is, my listening environment (and apparently your too) has reverberation issues at low frequencies. You really can't equalize away the reverberation problem. After running MCACC using the early 20-40ms or 30-50ms windows, the direct sound from the subwoofer is stronger and more balanced to the rest of the system. Fast, punchy signals from the subwoofer will be much better represented. Longer low frequency notes, however, will still suffer as the reverberated energy builds over time, resulting in the louder, more "boomey" sound. It is unavoidable.

My solution is a compromise. using the manual EQ. For me, running MCACC with the 30-50ms window provides the best results. I have manually identified the most offensive reverberation frequency in my room (I have standing wave at 30Hz along the long dimension of my room). I go into manual EQ and attenuate the subwoofer by 4dB at 30Hz only. This robs an otherwise awesome subwoofer of a little punch, but makes the experience much less fatiguing by reducing the overpowering notes at 30Hz.

Your only other real options involve more drastic measures, like installing bass traps, relocating your subwoofer, or installing additional subwoofers in more locations. For me , these are not good options because my listening room is also a living room. The good news is, I can get reasonably good results with the settings described above.

Hope this helps.
My problem is exactly as you describe but I can not figure out how to read the reverb measurements. I do not have a laptop that I can connect so I am stuck with osd. I have uploaded som pic.from measurements without EQ maybe you can see something from them.

I have turned trim level down from 0db to -2db since that was the only thing that I could see related to volume.

I have a sclx85
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post #6502 of 6817 Old 03-29-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by moleman74 View Post
My problem is exactly as you describe but I can not figure out how to read the reverb measurements. I do not have a laptop that I can connect so I am stuck with osd. I have uploaded som pic.from measurements without EQ maybe you can see something from them.

I have turned trim level down from 0db to -2db since that was the only thing that I could see related to volume.

I have a sclx85
OK. Might me more complicated than I thought. For discussion, I included one of my reverb plots. Don't worry about the PC software. I have never used it either. It's not very convenient to pull this big receiver out of the cabinet to connect a cable to the back.

I don't know how technical you are, so I may describe things you already know. Not trying to offend anyone. I certainly don't know everything, just enough to be dangerous. The plot shows sound magnitude as a function of time. No system is infinitely fast, so the plots will always start at some lower magnitude and increase with time. Ideally each trace would quickly rise to it's steady state value and stay there for the rest of the time plotted. Each colored trace represents a different frequency. Ideally, the magnitude should be the same at all frequencies.

In my plot, most of the traces rise reasonably quickly and reach nearly the same level by 30-40ms. The 16kHz trace settles to a slightly lower level than the other frequencies. This data is for my center channel which is mounted over the TV slightly above head level. The listening position is slightly off axis, causing a little roll off at the highest frequencies. The interesting trace is at 63Hz. At this frequency, the amplitude rises more slowly and overshoots the traces for all other frequencies by a significant amount. If there were a measurement at 30Hz, it would be even worse. As I mentioned in a previous post, 30Hz is my worst frequency due to a standing wave along the long dimension of the room.

Looking at the 63Hz trace on my plot, you can see what's going on with MCACC. If I measure at 80ms, MCACC will think my system is much more efficient at 63Hz than at higher frequencies. As a result, the calibration will attenuate the lower frequencies (our original weak bass problem. If, on the other hand, I were to measure at 20ms, MCACC would think my system is much less efficient at 63Hz than at higher frequencies. The calibration would turn up the lower frequencies, resulting in overpowering bass. At about 40ms, my 63Hz trace is about equal in amplitude to the other frequencies. I know from manual measurements that my center channel has flat response across this frequency range. Therefore, I conclude that the 30-50ms window captures the best representation of my system in my non-ideal listening room with reverberation. It's not an exact science, but this logic gets you pretty close to what you want.

I don't think I see a 63Hz plot in your data. I assume your speakers to not produce these frequencies. Your data shows similar behavior to mine at 125Hz. Looking at your center channel, it takes about 80ms for your 125Hz trace to reach the steady state. The 250Hz and 500Hz also show some behavior below 40ms. In your data, there is no overshoot, so I assume MCACC will need to boost these lower frequencies a few dB in the calibration. Same as me, for longer notes, that will cause your amplitude at 125, 250, 500Hz to be slightly higher than at higher frequencies. That's the compromise. For your center channel, I think I would still use 30-50ms window.

I am a little more concerned about your right and left channels. Both of these show low 125Hz levels. The level is low for all time captured. This does not look like a reverberation issue. This looks like the left and right may be smaller than the other channels and not able to easily produce 125Hz. MCACC will try to boost the L/R channels by 4-5dB at 125Hz, significantly increasing power and excursion on these channels. If this is correct, you may want to pick a higher crossover frequency and avoid damage. I don't know how high the crossover selection goes.

Based on your data and my experience with MCACC so far, I would say calibrate using the 30-50ms window. Listen and see how over-pronounced the bass sounds. If it is too much, go into manual EQ and lower the 125Hz band 2dB or so. Repeat until you find the balance.
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post #6503 of 6817 Old 03-30-2018, 12:38 AM
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OK. Might me more complicated than I thought. For discussion, I included one of my reverb plots. Don't worry about the PC software. I have never used it either. It's not very convenient to pull this big receiver out of the cabinet to connect a cable to the back.

I don't know how technical you are, so I may describe things you already know. Not trying to offend anyone. I certainly don't know everything, just enough to be dangerous. The plot shows sound magnitude as a function of time. No system is infinitely fast, so the plots will always start at some lower magnitude and increase with time. Ideally each trace would quickly rise to it's steady state value and stay there for the rest of the time plotted. Each colored trace represents a different frequency. Ideally, the magnitude should be the same at all frequencies.

In my plot, most of the traces rise reasonably quickly and reach nearly the same level by 30-40ms. The 16kHz trace settles to a slightly lower level than the other frequencies. This data is for my center channel which is mounted over the TV slightly above head level. The listening position is slightly off axis, causing a little roll off at the highest frequencies. The interesting trace is at 63Hz. At this frequency, the amplitude rises more slowly and overshoots the traces for all other frequencies by a significant amount. If there were a measurement at 30Hz, it would be even worse. As I mentioned in a previous post, 30Hz is my worst frequency due to a standing wave along the long dimension of the room.

Looking at the 63Hz trace on my plot, you can see what's going on with MCACC. If I measure at 80ms, MCACC will think my system is much more efficient at 63Hz than at higher frequencies. As a result, the calibration will attenuate the lower frequencies (our original weak bass problem. If, on the other hand, I were to measure at 20ms, MCACC would think my system is much less efficient at 63Hz than at higher frequencies. The calibration would turn up the lower frequencies, resulting in overpowering bass. At about 40ms, my 63Hz trace is about equal in amplitude to the other frequencies. I know from manual measurements that my center channel has flat response across this frequency range. Therefore, I conclude that the 30-50ms window captures the best representation of my system in my non-ideal listening room with reverberation. It's not an exact science, but this logic gets you pretty close to what you want.

I don't think I see a 63Hz plot in your data. I assume your speakers to not produce these frequencies. Your data shows similar behavior to mine at 125Hz. Looking at your center channel, it takes about 80ms for your 125Hz trace to reach the steady state. The 250Hz and 500Hz also show some behavior below 40ms. In your data, there is no overshoot, so I assume MCACC will need to boost these lower frequencies a few dB in the calibration. Same as me, for longer notes, that will cause your amplitude at 125, 250, 500Hz to be slightly higher than at higher frequencies. That's the compromise. For your center channel, I think I would still use 30-50ms window.

I am a little more concerned about your right and left channels. Both of these show low 125Hz levels. The level is low for all time captured. This does not look like a reverberation issue. This looks like the left and right may be smaller than the other channels and not able to easily produce 125Hz. MCACC will try to boost the L/R channels by 4-5dB at 125Hz, significantly increasing power and excursion on these channels. If this is correct, you may want to pick a higher crossover frequency and avoid damage. I don't know how high the crossover selection goes.

Based on your data and my experience with MCACC so far, I would say calibrate using the 30-50ms window. Listen and see how over-pronounced the bass sounds. If it is too much, go into manual EQ and lower the 125Hz band 2dB or so. Repeat until you find the balance.
Thx for looking at my pictures i do not understand much about these EQ settings and graphs so your help and explaining is much appriciated . I have M&K SOUND MP150 as front and MK SOUND - S-150 MKII as center speaker. They should be identical, only difference is mp150 is made for wall mount. I have them set on speaker stands. My xover at the sclx is set to 80. that is what mksound recommends for these speakers. Do you think that there is something damaged in the two front speakers?
I have a calibration with 30-50 ms and the bass is as described earlier. when I lower trim level it helps but take away some punch. I will try to lower the 125 band as you describe.
i have included a picture of the front and center speakers measured with EQ on the 30-50ms setting
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Last edited by moleman74; 03-30-2018 at 12:45 AM.
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post #6504 of 6817 Old 03-30-2018, 04:47 AM
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If you really want to do it right, use a real system for measurements:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
Michael

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Don't guess, measure: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
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post #6505 of 6817 Old 03-30-2018, 05:27 AM
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Yes, I use REW as well. This is a very useful tool. I actually use it for speaker and crossover design more than for room characterization. I can't say enough good things about this tool.

I'm not sure this is for everyone though. Tools like MCACC are intended to simplify the setup process for people who may not want to set up an acoustic measurement system in their home. Unfortunately MCACC and Audyssey tend to confuse many users, especially when the result are not as good as expected. The producers of these systems still have some improvements to make. I personally would have been embarrassed to release the MCACC manual in its current published form.

For moleman74, I'm not sure REW will be any more helpful than the plots he already has. The REW measurements will tell us he has reverberation problems in his listening room, but he already knows that. The fact is, he will still have to choose a compromised equalizer setting, even if he ignores MCACC and performs a fully manual calibration using REW and a tape measure.
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post #6506 of 6817 Old 03-30-2018, 05:58 AM
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No i do not think That i need additional equipment with my simple understanding I think MCACC is complicated enough.

By higher frequency do you meen the xover? My speakers are are made to crossover at 80hz and need a subwoofer to take care of the bass
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post #6507 of 6817 Old 03-30-2018, 06:56 AM
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I will try to look at your speakers tonight. If they publish frequency response plots we can see if 80Hz is a good xover frequency. It is possible they just need a little eq on the low end. My fear is the 80Hz spec may have been selected by the marketing department. We should just make sure you are not putting your speakers at risk with the low frequency boost. Otherwise you should be on the right track with what we have talked about so far.
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post #6508 of 6817 Old 03-31-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick092070 View Post
I will try to look at your speakers tonight. If they publish frequency response plots we can see if 80Hz is a good xover frequency. It is possible they just need a little eq on the low end. My fear is the 80Hz spec may have been selected by the marketing department. We should just make sure you are not putting your speakers at risk with the low frequency boost. Otherwise you should be on the right track with what we have talked about so far.
Thx. I tried to lower the 125hz but that did not sound right. on the 30-50ms setting my trim level for the sub in EQ is set to 0db and -3db on 80-160ms(default) when I lower the trim to -2db on 30-50ms i loose a bit punch but the distortion disappears. I am shifting back and forth between the 80-160 (m1) with the trim raised a bit and 30-50ms (m2) with the trim lower. On m1 the dialog and some effects is a bit more clear. on the other hand the bass is better on m2 so.....

I have a dedicated cinema room in my basement but the wife is about to go mad cause I play the same action scenes from Transformers and Fury

front and center speakers frequency Response: 77 Hz – 20 kHz, ±3dB
http://www.mksound.com/wp-content/up..._2015_web1.pdf
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post #6509 of 6817 Old 03-31-2018, 09:18 PM
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I have been searching high and low, and to no avail, maybe y'all can answer this for me.

I picked up a VSX-70 today for $100 (I now understand why, it is an older unit and is missing the MCACC mic and FM/AM antennas). As stated, I am missing the microphone to be able to set up MCACC, and would like to get one.

Are these things unobtanium or am I not looking for the right part number? I can't get a clear answer from Google or Pioneer, so I figured I would answer here.

Now before I drive myself mad, is it really worth it to do the MCACC? I am in a 1 bedroom apartment and will be running a 5.1 setup with not audiophile speakers.

Furthermore, my previous setup was a free to me Sony SAVA-500 setup, so going from that to this will be light years better. Considering the Dayton B652 AIR or the T652 AIR to replace my front left and right channels.
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post #6510 of 6817 Old 04-01-2018, 04:15 AM
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Yes, it's worth it.
No, it's not worth $20:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement...QAAOSwcpJZb5TV
For FM, a single, thin, insulated wire 3.1 feet long will be fine.
You're off to a good start. In a few years, you'll be researching ATMOS speakers.
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