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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread

1M views 7K replies 928 participants last post by  nadrealista 
#1 ·
The MCACC system is in just about all new Pioneer units, yet setup and tweaking questions are scattered throughout the AVSFORUM.

Since MCACC is a common feature, I have been given the go ahead to start an

OFFICIAL MCACC thread.

There is an "Audyssey" thread where common problems get answered by their "pro's" and I am hoping that those typical MCACC questions get asked and answered here since not every knowledgeable MCACC expert hits every Pioneer thread.


The advantage is that MCACC questions could be centrally located and those questions dont bog down the individual Pioneer model threads.


Here are a few links that may give very basic info on MCACC, if you have more, let me know to include them.

I dont know how to link words to the web address, but hope posting the links works ok.


Short definition of MCACC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...s/Tuning/MCACC


Pioneer’s description of what MCACC does, click on link to see their demonstration:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4.../AF_MCACC.html


Some info using Advanced MCACC and X-Curve for a particular unit that looked informative….
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...er/index1.html


Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default



Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3

Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.

"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.


Work Flow:


1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).


2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)


3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.


4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.


5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.


6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.


Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.


7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)


Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.


Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)


VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)


If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering."


Note: Auto MCAAC select delay capture time based upon you rooom ,and I have no idea how it does this or how to know what it chose as a delay time. that is why I recommend using advanved EQ.

gamelover360 is offline Forward Message
 
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#77 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu /forum/post/15659223


Ditto.


Setting it on the headrest won't really be accurate as, in most cases, your ears are actually in front of the headrest.



I don't even remember seeing the option for multi-point on my 03TXH. It has that feature too?

Using a tripod will definitely help MCACC be more accurate. The first time I ran MCACC I set the mic on top of the headrest, results were OK. Re-running MCACC with mic set on a tripod yielded much better results. Now this is where I need help, according to the manual. Multi-point MCACC will yield better results and give you better freq. response for the room. Like I said that's what my manual says. So what I did was measure from two other spots in my room and then my listening position. I don't know if that's correct or not. I have posted a layout of the room and the positions I used. Anybody have any suggestions?


[/URL] [/IMG]
 
#79 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan /forum/post/15645457


Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).


The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default


Lexicon, probably a good idea to include that link in the first post.


Dan.

Done per your request on 1/26/09
 
#80 ·
OK....This is what I know feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.



Work Flow:


1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).


2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)


3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings.


4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration saved to M1 (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to M2 and also to M3. Now you have carbon copies of this calibration in M1-M3.


5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.


6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.


Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.


7) Change to MCAAC preset 2 (M2) before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)


Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in M1 with the advanced EQ effects in M2 while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in M3, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in M1 and M2.

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)


If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering.
 
#5,710 ·
I need to re-run MCACC and since it's been so long since I've done it, is the below step-by-step instructions still my best bet?

From page 3
OK....This is what I know feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.


Work Flow:

1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).

2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)

3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings.

4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration saved to M1 (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to M2 and also to M3. Now you have carbon copies of this calibration in M1-M3.

5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.

6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.

Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.

7) Change to MCAAC preset 2 (M2) before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)

Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in M1 with the advanced EQ effects in M2 while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in M3, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in M1 and M2.

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)

If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering.
TYIA
 
#83 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 /forum/post/15662345


OK....This is what I know feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.



Work Flow:


1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).


2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)


3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings.


4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration saved to M1 (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to M2 and also to M3. Now you have carbon copies of this calibration in M1-M3.


5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.


6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.


Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.


7) Change to MCAAC preset 2 (M2) before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)


Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in M1 with the advanced EQ effects in M2 while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in M3, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in M1 and M2.

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)




If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering.

Thanks!


I just hope this sequence applies to my (older) vsx-59txi)?


thx


bob
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob /forum/post/15663226


yes, but at 80-160 ms


bob

so why cant i just go in and set the timing, speaker distances, speaker settings to small 80hz, and speaker levels with spl and then run the auto with keep speakers settings?


also are you saying use the 30-50ms setting?
 
#85 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15663607


so why cant i just go in and set the timing, speaker distances, speaker settings to small 80hz, and speaker levels with spl and then run the auto with keep speakers settings?


also are you saying use the 30-50ms setting?

Or 20-40, depending on the results that you got from reverb measurement.


My problem is that on the 59, there is no option to take measurements with "eq off" so I don't know if it does or not!



bob
 
#90 ·
thinking of getting pioneer. but have onkyo 605 which just gets too hot for me. onkyo uses audessey. if i am using 80 as crossover for the fronts and surround, i am confused with what to use for the lfe. in the onkyo the lfe frequency only goes as low as 80 i think
 
#97 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15663607


so why cant i just go in and set the timing, speaker distances, speaker settings to small 80hz, and speaker levels with spl and then run the auto with keep speakers settings?


also are you saying use the 30-50ms setting?

The manual recommends 30-50 ms, but strongly advises you to study the reverb measurements and see which basic behaviors they exhibit, and then use the setting that your results indicate. They have 3 types of behavior results to look for, and related delay settings to use.


You can do what you said above...kinda. The only thing is that Auto MCAAC is too generalized to allow you to run an EQ calibration with a custom delay time setting (ex. 30-50 ms). You could :


1) Run auto MCAAC

2) Manually Change Sp settings to small and 80 hz crossover

3) Re-run Auto MCAAC in Auto MCAAC custom mode and be sure to select the option "keep Sp settings"

4) Then go into Advanced EQ, change delay time to 30-50 ms, and run the EQ calibration. Running the Advanced EQ calibration WILL NOT change any of your other settings....only the EQ filters MCAAC applies. And in this case the main difference is that it will take frequency measurements earlier than how Auto MCAAC does it.


Auto MCAAC just doesn't want to confuse the average user with time delay options. The time delay option is something that is chosen by an advanced user based upon reverb data. So offering a time delay option in Auto MCAAC then requires the opening of a whole can of worms that doesn't fit with the idea of Auto MCAAC.


But to be clear, you can select a time delay from the advanced EQ menu and run a calibration without taking a single reverb measurement. Pioneer just recommends it so that you make the right setting.
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 /forum/post/15662345

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

Hey man, do you know where to get this MCACC PC application? I can't find it so far on the Pio web sites...


Edit: Nevermind, it appears the USA versions of the 1018 don't have the capability to output to PC; the option isn't in the MCACC data menu, nor does it have an RS-232C connector on back. Bummer man, this MCACC application manual you pointed to specifically says 1018AH-K which is the version I have, but no RS-232, bummer.
 
#99 ·
ok, so run auto mcacc. Then change speakers settings to small 80hz, get the speaker levels right also with spl meter? Then rerun the auto mcacc? My 91 is a little different, would I save to a new preset? Lets say run the first auto and save it to M1, and rerun and save it to M2? Also what behavior am I looking for to know exactly which time setting to use?
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBoomer /forum/post/15667666


Hey man, do you know where to get this MCACC PC application? I can't find it so far on the Pio web sites...


Edit: Nevermind, it appears the USA versions of the 1018 don't have the capability to output to PC; the option isn't in the MCACC data menu, nor does it have an RS-232C connector on back. Bummer man, this MCACC application manual you pointed to specifically says 1018AH-K which is the version I have, but no RS-232, bummer.

I am sorry....but I live in Sweden and just posted the Advanced MCAAC manual thinking the US version was the same. I did some research about the differences and it seems that the EU version has a few advantages over the US version (150W per channel vs. 130W and different impedences..maybe even a little better amplifier) besides just the THX Select2 Plus certification. Well at least I am finally getting something a lil more for the EXTRA money we pay over here!



The sucky part about the PC interface is that it requires XP or Windows 2000.....I have Vista!
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff /forum/post/15667706


ok, so run auto mcacc. Then change speakers settings to small 80hz, get the speaker levels right also with spl meter? Then rerun the auto mcacc? My 91 is a little different, would I save to a new preset? Lets say run the first auto and save it to M1, and rerun and save it to M2? Also what behavior am I looking for to know exactly which time setting to use?

Don't save to a new preset, just re-run Auto MCAAC in custom mode and choose keep sp setting. Then copy M1 data to M2, and then you run reverb measurement, then look at reverb data, then run advanced EQ (where you can change delay time) using M2. Now you will have MCAAC's auto calibration in M1 and the advanced EQ cal in M2.


Also, re-read my original post. I know this stuff is confusing...for me as well. But I promise that after about 10 read throughs of the post or less...you will get it. I had to read the manual a LOT to get my brain around the bigger picture.
 
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