Parasound Owners Thread - Page 213 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6361 of 6432 Old 05-22-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
There are a lot of variables here. Presumably you're using the pre-outs from Anthem MRX receiver -> A23 amp -> ML Vista speakers? I own a pair of ML Quest Z electrostats, and noticed a significant improvement when I upgraded from ADCOM GFA-5500 at 350W to Parasound JC5 at 600W. I chalked this up to the lower source impedance driving the panels, which drop to less than 1 ohm at high frequencies.


I guess what I'm saying is there is some evidence that ML speakers sound better with a very powerful amp driving them, which does not describe the A23. I have also heard the Vistas are not ML's best design, but I have no personal experience with them, so take that for what it is worth.
May be A21 would have been better driving them. And also I think you have not the wrong information about Vista. They are really good and i compared with the latest ElectroMotion ESL X and they are on par with them.
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post #6362 of 6432 Old 05-22-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by iliasmd View Post
May be A21 would have been better driving them.

Or the JC5.

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post #6363 of 6432 Old 05-22-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Or the JC5.
Or a pair of used JC 1 monoblocks. JC 1s made a major improvement in the sound of my KEF Ref 107/2s that I've attributed their ability to deliver current, but without actual knowledge of that.
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post #6364 of 6432 Old 05-22-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Or a pair of used JC 1 monoblocks. JC 1s made a major improvement in the sound of my KEF Ref 107/2s that I've attributed their ability to deliver current, but without actual knowledge of that.

I noticed a similar improvement in my electrostats posted here. High power/current amps can be quite an improvement in clarity. I believe most people think "I don't need that much power, I never turn it up that loud". But that is not the purpose, instead it is a low source impedance and high damping factor driving the speakers.

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post #6365 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 07:13 AM
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I'm thinking about getting an A23+ to add to my Yamaha A2080 AVR. It seems this would be a good incremental step towards separates if I choose to do so in the future. With the A23+ I could then add a P6 or possibly a NAD C658 (preamp, streamer, DAC with Dirac Live room correction) that could be separated into a 2.0 to 2.2 channel music only system at some point.

Does anyone have any experience adding the A23 or A23+ to AVR pre-outs? What kind of performance boost might I expect? Thanks for any input.

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080

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post #6366 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 08:31 AM
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Does anyone have any experience adding the A23 or A23+ to AVR pre-outs? What kind of performance boost might I expect? Thanks for any input.
I use an A23 to drive a B&W HTM71s2 center, offloading the Denon 4400H to drive only the four Atmos speakers. My original intent was to protect the 4400H from the center's 3ohm impedance dip. The A23 is wired to bi-amp the HTM71s2 (L/R ch drive the hi/low respectively). I like how Parasound amps remain neutral and doesn't taper off the highs unlike other music oriented amps. With or without Audyssey room correction, the center sounds great.
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post #6367 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
I use an A23 to drive a B&W HTM71s2 center, offloading the Denon 4400H to drive only the four Atmos speakers. My original intent was to protect the 4400H from the center's 3ohm impedance dip. The A23 is wired to bi-amp the HTM71s2 (L/R ch drive the hi/low respectively). I like how Parasound amps remain neutral and doesn't taper off the highs unlike other music oriented amps. With or without Audyssey room correction, the center sounds great.
Thanks for the input. Coincidentally, I auditioned the 4400H myself and settled on the Yamaha, probably due to the fact I was used to the Yamaha sound I had with a lower level Yamaha AVR. I think I prefer the 4400H for movies because it seemed to have a bigger thump in the mid bass when needed (kinda muddy but much "richer" sounding). But I much preferred the clarity of the Yamaha for 2 channel music (at least to my ears).

So can you tell a difference with the L/R with and without the A23? How about with 2-channel music? I actually would probably get the KEF R2C at some point so the A23+ would offload the A2080 L/R to focus on the center just like your setup (and possibly 2 more speakers for movies if I ever go that route).

I'm just intrigued about the possibility of having the option to go separates with the A23+ at some point down the road. Does anyone have any more input?

Also, if I got the P6 can it and the A23+ be used in home theater bypass where I could use my 2 subs for both music and movies?

Thanks all.

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080

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post #6368 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post

So can you tell a difference with the L/R with and without the A23? How about with 2-channel music? I actually would probably get the KEF R2C at some point so the A23+ would offload the A2080 L/R to focus on the center (and possibly 2 more speakers if I ever go that route) just like you;re doing.

I'm just intrigued about the possibility of having the option to go separates with the A23+ at some point down the road. Does anyone have any more input?

Also, if I got the P6 can it and the A23+ be used in home theater bypass where I could use my 2 subs for both music and movies?

Thanks all.
I use the A23 for the center, not L/R. Since you brought up the L/R, I use a Parasound HINT for my L/R. For movies (in HINT's bypass mode) the Denon applies Audyssey to voice match the L/R/C with the rest of my speakers. In 2 ch music mode (2.2 actually) I set the HINT's LPF lower than Denon's usual HT settings to let my L/R speakers (B&W 705s2) handle more mid bass and let my dual sealed subs (Rhytmik L22 x2) play only the lows. In this setup, the AVR doesn't get involved in music sessions at all, except in multi-ch mode (SACD/DVD-Audio sessions).

As you already know, the bypass feature in HINT or P6 allows you to utilize the same subs and L/R speakers in both HT and 2ch mode, but allows you to entirely bypass the AVR in 2ch (or 2.2) mode. Whether or not it sounds better is subjective. Speakers that scale up with better components (by skipping the AVR's pre-pro in music mode) would benefit from this setup.
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post #6369 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
I use the A23 for the center, not L/R. Since you brought up the L/R, I use a Parasound HINT for my L/R. For movies (in HINT's bypass mode) the Denon applies Audyssey to voice match the L/R/C with the rest of my speakers. In 2 ch music mode (2.2 actually) I set the HINT's LPF lower than Denon's usual HT settings to let my L/R speakers (B&W 705s2) handle more mid bass and let my dual sealed subs (Rhytmik L22 x2) play only the lows. In this setup, the AVR doesn't get involved in music sessions at all, except in multi-ch mode (SACD/DVD-Audio sessions).

As you already know, the bypass feature in HINT or P6 allows you to utilize the same subs and L/R speakers in both HT and 2ch mode, but allows you to entirely bypass the AVR in 2ch (or 2.2) mode. Whether or not it sounds better is subjective. Speakers that scale up with better components (by skipping the AVR's pre-pro in music mode) would benefit from this setup.
Ahh. Hence using the 2 channel A23 to bi-amp the single center speaker. Now I understand. I myself thought about getting the Hint 6 but am liking the idea of having options for adding a different pre-amp, or a mini DSP unit between the P6 and A23+ for Dirac. I also like the idea of having good quality separates ready for a good hi-fi speaker upgrade. I'm kicking around getting the A21+ but it's kind of appealing for me to upgrade in $1,500 increments instead of 3k for the next step..

I understand about the subjectivity of effect of the amp... I know my R3's are pretty "transparent" and tell the differences in electronics so I'd assume it should help. Plus the R3's dip to ~3.2 ohms around I believe 70 hz and 1000 hz so I think they'd benefit form a dedicated higher current amp.

I just recently saw that Parasound has bypass that can be used to keep my dual Rythmik F12SE's in the loop for music. Most other integrated's Hegel, etc, would not allow the subs in the 2 channel music mode. You helped clarify that it does in fact allow 2.2 for music.

Are the subs in "stereo" in that configuration? That would be awesome.

Thanks.

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080

Last edited by Matthew Pool; 05-29-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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post #6370 of 6432 Old 05-29-2019, 06:37 PM
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Are the subs in "stereo" in that configuration? That would be awesome.
Yes subs are in discrete stereo mode.
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post #6371 of 6432 Old 06-01-2019, 09:46 AM
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Has anyone compared P6 vs higher class AVR (Anthem MRX 720/1120, Arcam AVR 550/850...) or pre/pro (Anthem AVM 60, Arcam AV860...) as stereo DAC + preamp + bass management or preamp + bass management?
Anyone?

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post #6372 of 6432 Old 06-01-2019, 10:01 AM
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Anyone?
Never heard neither arcam nor anthem but I have oppo-205, parasound hint and pioneer sc-lx 901 and sabre dacs in all three sound the same in my setup

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post #6373 of 6432 Old 06-04-2019, 03:49 PM
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Talking New A31 owner

I just hooked up my new (to me at least, bought used on ebay) Parasound A31 amplifier in my 5.1 surround system and I'm wowed! I replaced an Adcom GFA-555-II driving main L/R speakers (KEF 104/2) and Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH driving center KEF Reference 100. Source is Marantz AV8801.

Before the amp upgrade, this was a terrific system, but could be somewhat harsh/edgy in the treble at higher volumes.

Inserting the A31 provided the following subjective changes:
  • more subtilty, delicateness
  • more depth, width
  • more "rounded" sound
  • more definition, clarity
  • more authority, heft
The change was not subtle. From In addition to the amplifier change, I switched from (home built) high quality RCA to home built balanced interconnects. Some reviewers noted that the balanced interconnects made a substantial difference.

Based on reading, I suspect the other contributing differences are that the A31 has no capacitors in the signal path (the Adcom has at least one DC blocking cap at the input); and that the power supply in the A31 is substantially more robust than than the Adcom (this was an acknowledged short coming of the Adcom as the predriver power is not regulated). Both are rated at 200 Wpc into 8 ohms with substantial current output at lower impedances. The A31 has 3 channels vs. the Adcom 2, but it weighs at least twice as much (it's HEAVY!).

Anyway, I wanted to pass along my experience with an amplifier upgrade which some claim should not have any audible effect.
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post #6374 of 6432 Old 06-06-2019, 01:30 PM
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I have a question using Parasound A23 for center or for surround sound. Since it is not up to speed driving my LR, I was thinking of using them for surround sound or center? Do you guys have any suggestion?
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post #6375 of 6432 Old 06-11-2019, 09:44 AM
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I have a question using Parasound A23 for center or for surround sound. Since it is not up to speed driving my LR, I was thinking of using them for surround sound or center? Do you guys have any suggestion?
Any suggestion for using A23?

I have a question using Parasound A23 for center or for surround sound. Since it is not up to speed driving my LR, I was thinking of using them for surround sound or center? Do you guys have any suggestion?
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post #6376 of 6432 Old 06-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tvlenthe View Post
I just hooked up my new (to me at least, bought used on ebay) Parasound A31 amplifier in my 5.1 surround system and I'm wowed! I replaced an Adcom GFA-555-II driving main L/R speakers (KEF 104/2) and Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH driving center KEF Reference 100. Source is Marantz AV8801.

Before the amp upgrade, this was a terrific system, but could be somewhat harsh/edgy in the treble at higher volumes.

Inserting the A31 provided the following subjective changes:
  • more subtilty, delicateness
  • more depth, width
  • more "rounded" sound
  • more definition, clarity
  • more authority, heft
The change was not subtle. From In addition to the amplifier change, I switched from (home built) high quality RCA to home built balanced interconnects. Some reviewers noted that the balanced interconnects made a substantial difference.

Based on reading, I suspect the other contributing differences are that the A31 has no capacitors in the signal path (the Adcom has at least one DC blocking cap at the input); and that the power supply in the A31 is substantially more robust than than the Adcom (this was an acknowledged short coming of the Adcom as the predriver power is not regulated). Both are rated at 200 Wpc into 8 ohms with substantial current output at lower impedances. The A31 has 3 channels vs. the Adcom 2, but it weighs at least twice as much (it's HEAVY!).

Anyway, I wanted to pass along my experience with an amplifier upgrade which some claim should not have any audible effect.
A question on power conditioners on high power amps (kinda directed at WAFWarrior)....


I have been using an APC H10 power conditioner to power my 5.1 setup, including my newly installed A31.



I had issues in the past with damaged HDMI inputs when different units were powered from different outlets.



The H10 shows that it is only under about 40% load at normal usage/volume in this new configuration. Its manual indicates that anything designed for powering form a 15A circuit should be fine connected thru the H10. It further states that it can handle large startup/surge currents.


So, the question... Am I constraining the performance of the A31 by powering through this conditioner, and if so, is there risk associated with powering it through a different outlet when connected vial balanced cables?
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post #6377 of 6432 Old 06-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iliasmd View Post
I have a question using Parasound A23 for center or for surround sound. Since it is not up to speed driving my LR, I was thinking of using them for surround sound or center? Do you guys have any suggestion?
In a reply to one of my posts above @Gyroscopics says he's using it in bi-amp configuration for his center. I bet that would be a good use for your A23.

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post #6378 of 6432 Old 06-12-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tvlenthe View Post
I just hooked up my new (to me at least, bought used on ebay) Parasound A31 amplifier in my 5.1 surround system and I'm wowed! I replaced an Adcom GFA-555-II driving main L/R speakers (KEF 104/2) and Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH driving center KEF Reference 100. Source is Marantz AV8801.

Before the amp upgrade, this was a terrific system, but could be somewhat harsh/edgy in the treble at higher volumes.

Inserting the A31 provided the following subjective changes:
  • more subtilty, delicateness
  • more depth, width
  • more "rounded" sound
  • more definition, clarity
  • more authority, heft
The change was not subtle. From In addition to the amplifier change, I switched from (home built) high quality RCA to home built balanced interconnects. Some reviewers noted that the balanced interconnects made a substantial difference.

Based on reading, I suspect the other contributing differences are that the A31 has no capacitors in the signal path (the Adcom has at least one DC blocking cap at the input); and that the power supply in the A31 is substantially more robust than than the Adcom (this was an acknowledged short coming of the Adcom as the predriver power is not regulated). Both are rated at 200 Wpc into 8 ohms with substantial current output at lower impedances. The A31 has 3 channels vs. the Adcom 2, but it weighs at least twice as much (it's HEAVY!).

Anyway, I wanted to pass along my experience with an amplifier upgrade which some claim should not have any audible effect.
I feel I experience the same benefits you listed running my front 5 speakers ( wide / L / C /R / wide ) with an A 52+, and my Denon X8500H. My Denon now just powers the side and rear surrounds, and 4 ceiling speakers. All my speakers are Martin Logan 4 ohm Motion speakers. I can run the volume higher, and the system sounds cleaner and less fatiguing. All my guests have commented on how the audio sounds even better with movie soundtracks. For me, the A 52+ seems like the perfect fit power wise for my room.
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post #6379 of 6432 Old 06-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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In a reply to one of my posts above @Gyroscopics says he's using it in bi-amp configuration for his center. I bet that would be a good use for your A23.
Thank you. I will see how it works out using Bi-Amp for center.
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post #6380 of 6432 Old 06-13-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tvlenthe View Post
A question on power conditioners on high power amps (kinda directed at WAFWarrior)....


I have been using an APC H10 power conditioner to power my 5.1 setup, including my newly installed A31.



I had issues in the past with damaged HDMI inputs when different units were powered from different outlets.



The H10 shows that it is only under about 40% load at normal usage/volume in this new configuration. Its manual indicates that anything designed for powering form a 15A circuit should be fine connected thru the H10. It further states that it can handle large startup/surge currents.


So, the question... Am I constraining the performance of the A31 by powering through this conditioner, and if so, is there risk associated with powering it through a different outlet when connected vial balanced cables?
Generally speaking the A31's performance is not constrained when plugged into the conditioner while powering your KEFs. If you use the amp on a different outlet than the rest of the equipment there is a much higher chance for a difference in ground potential which can result in humming or buzz. This could be the reason you had trouble with HDMI cables in the past. I suggest trying to keep everything on one circuit if possible. Keep in mind that under normal circumstances the A31 does not come close to its full power output on all 3 channels at once. If you need more information please contact our tech department.

Service Department contact and hours
Parasound's San Francisco Technical Department is open 7 a.m. - 5 p.m. Pacific Time.
[email protected]
415-397-7100

Chris
Parasound Products Inc.
2250 Mckinnon Ave.
San Francisco CA 94124
415-397-7100
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post #6381 of 6432 Old 06-13-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post
Generally speaking the A31's performance is not constrained when plugged into the conditioner while powering your KEFs. If you use the amp on a different outlet than the rest of the equipment there is a much higher chance for a difference in ground potential which can result in humming or buzz. This could be the reason you had trouble with HDMI cables in the past. I suggest trying to keep everything on one circuit if possible. Keep in mind that under normal circumstances the A31 does not come close to its full power output on all 3 channels at once. If you need more information please contact our tech department.

Service Department contact and hours
Parasound's San Francisco Technical Department is open 7 a.m. - 5 p.m. Pacific Time.
[email protected]
415-397-7100
Thanks!
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post #6382 of 6432 Old 06-13-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I feel I experience the same benefits you listed running my front 5 speakers ( wide / L / C /R / wide ) with an A 52+, and my Denon X8500H. My Denon now just powers the side and rear surrounds, and 4 ceiling speakers. All my speakers are Martin Logan 4 ohm Motion speakers. I can run the volume higher, and the system sounds cleaner and less fatiguing. All my guests have commented on how the audio sounds even better with movie soundtracks. For me, the A 52+ seems like the perfect fit power wise for my room.
Patiently waiting for my new entertainment stand to get finished by a friend so I can hook up the A52+ I ordered a month ago. I'm hoping it will boost my Klipsch 7II's, 64II, and RS62II's. It's been hard looking at the box knowing I can't hook it up yet. I did pull it out and inspect it though. It's a beautiful piece of gear to say the least.
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post #6383 of 6432 Old 06-16-2019, 12:36 PM
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Since I've freed up my avr from the L,R mains I notice for movies I need to have it at -15 volume with the hca 1500a amp. Is this because I now have more headroom?

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post #6384 of 6432 Old 06-28-2019, 03:11 PM
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Hi,


There is anyone with a P6 and A21 that can tell wich volume level starts to get really loud ?


What is the volume for normal use, most of the time ?
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post #6385 of 6432 Old 06-29-2019, 12:19 PM
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I have a new A21+ which seems to function properly but the rear gain controls have different feels. One is easy to turn but the other is noticeably tighter. Does anyone else have this experience? Other than that the build quality seems to be exceptional

Last edited by jcandy; 06-29-2019 at 08:12 PM.
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post #6386 of 6432 Old 07-02-2019, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
I'm thinking about getting an A23+ to add to my Yamaha A2080 AVR. It seems this would be a good incremental step towards separates if I choose to do so in the future. With the A23+ I could then add a P6 or possibly a NAD C658 (preamp, streamer, DAC with Dirac Live room correction) that could be separated into a 2.0 to 2.2 channel music only system at some point.

Does anyone have any experience adding the A23 or A23+ to AVR pre-outs? What kind of performance boost might I expect? Thanks for any input.
I've been using the a23+ to drive my GE one.r's with very nice results for about 4 months now. really a nice little amp...nice bang for buck as well



...I guess it's nice
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post #6387 of 6432 Old 07-05-2019, 10:50 AM
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Older guy (50+) New to the forum just getting back in to a 2.1 system.

I generally prefer separates but the Hint 6 is a very nice integrated package. However, the A23+ and the P6 look like a very nice set up for about the same amount of money.

So, the question is, Integrated or Separates?

(This system will be in a 10x25 man cave with Kef LS50 speakers).

Thanks for the input.

Jim

Jim


Parasound P6, Parasound 23+, Marantz ND8006, Kef LS50
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post #6388 of 6432 Old 07-05-2019, 01:37 PM
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I did read post 6313 where a similar question was asked, the answer was that the A23+ will provide variable gain.

The main reason I am asking about Hint6 vs A23+ and P6 is that Parasound claims there should be no difference in sound. Has anyone found a comparison that compares these setups?

Thanks,

Jim
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post #6389 of 6432 Old 07-05-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
I've been using the a23+ to drive my GE one.r's with very nice results for about 4 months now. really a nice little amp...nice bang for buck as well



...I guess it's nice
Sweet picture of that A23+! I really like the contrast of the amp, the stand, and the great color carpet. Very nice. :-) Appreciate the input. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Arcam AS30 when it is released this fall to get everything in one box, especially Dirac... We'll see though.
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post #6390 of 6432 Old 07-05-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Russell View Post
I did read post 6313 where a similar question was asked, the answer was that the A23+ will provide variable gain.

The main reason I am asking about Hint6 vs A23+ and P6 is that Parasound claims there should be no difference in sound. Has anyone found a comparison that compares these setups?

Thanks,

Jim
FYI, when I was researching I too found it difficult to find comparisons. I was thinking of the same combo or at least a Parasound amp with the NAD C658 or miniDSP HD to get Dirac into my system. Not trying to confuse you more but you mayyyy want to consider the P6 and A21+ if you can spring it because I saw a thread where the designer of both the A23+ and A21+ mentioned you'll get quite a bit better "audiophile" experince with it. But I'm sure the A23+ would be really sweet too. I saw one guy mention when he added the P6 pre-amp to his A23 (coming from Musical Fidelity pre-amp) it was the best setup he'd heard in 40 years. Good luck! :-) (the following review does not compare it to P6 A23+ separates but maybe there's comments that do)


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