*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 320 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9571 of 9577 Old 10-19-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The note on p. 15 is quite clear that your use case is not possible.
I don't come to AVS forum for RTFM. There are lots of use cases that go beyond what is in the manual, which is why I asked my question. Perhaps the monitor output? Perhaps some other workaround?
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post #9572 of 9577 Old 10-29-2019, 02:34 PM
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Could someone please explain how I "brute force" setup the avr-1910 to divide the CENTER channel onto the LF and RF? The CENTER is playing even if set to NONE in speaker setup. And regardless, it is NOT mixed into the LF and RF.

This stream originates from a TV decoder box, and it does not matter if I use HDMI or SPDIF, the 1910 does not "understand" that there is an active CENTER channel in the 5.1 streams from the various TV channels.

In consequence, if e.g. a soccer match has the commenter mixed to the CENTER, it is at a very low level in the LF and RF, and completely overwhelmed by surround info, e.g. the audience of the match.

The reason I do not want to use CENTER speaker is that I have very high quality FL and FR speakers, which are in fact served by their own amplifier via 1910 SPDIF out.

Note: the TV decoder has a stereo downmix to stereo option, but it is the same with this one; the CENTER channel is just passed along, not mixed in.

Is the metainformation in the 5.1 stream perhaps too modern for 1910 (and the decoder)?

Thanks beforehand!

Last edited by chjan; 10-29-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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post #9573 of 9577 Old 10-29-2019, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjan View Post
Could someone please explain how I "brute force" setup the avr-1910 to divide the CENTER channel onto the LF and RF? The CENTER is playing even if set to NONE in speaker setup. And regardless, it is NOT mixed into the LF and RF.

This stream originates from a TV decoder box, and it does not matter if I use HDMI or SPDIF, the 1910 does not "understand" that there is an active CENTER channel in the 5.1 streams from the various TV channels.

In consequence, if e.g. a soccer match has the commenter mixed to the CENTER, it is at a very low level in the LF and RF, and completely overwhelmed by surround info, e.g. the audience of the match.

The reason I do not want to use CENTER speaker is that I have very high quality FL and FR speakers, which are in fact served by their own amplifier via 1910 SPDIF out.

Note: the TV decoder has a stereo downmix to stereo option, but it is the same with this one; the CENTER channel is just passed along, not mixed in.

Is the metainformation in the 5.1 stream perhaps too modern for 1910 (and the decoder)?

Thanks beforehand!
If in the speaker is set to NONE in speaker setup then the receiver won't send audio to it. The AVR 1910 is certainly not too old in any respect, processing digital audio has been around for decades.

I think the core of your problem is your comment that the FR/FL speakers "are served by their own amplifier via 1910 SPDIF out". Can you explain in more detail how this works?

The SPDIF output is NOT meant to serve as a "pre-out" for external speakers. Furthermore, the SPDIF output is NOT processed, it is simply passing along the signal from the source. So setting the center speaker to NONE in the AVR settings is not relevant to the SPDIF output because the AVR is not processing the signal -- if the source is sending 5.1, then the SPDIF is putting out 5.1 as well. So how are you converting this SPDIF signal to the signal for the FR/FL speakers?

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post #9574 of 9577 Old 10-29-2019, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjan View Post
Could someone please explain how I "brute force" setup the avr-1910 to divide the CENTER channel onto the LF and RF? The CENTER is playing even if set to NONE in speaker setup. And regardless, it is NOT mixed into the LF and RF.

This stream originates from a TV decoder box, and it does not matter if I use HDMI or SPDIF, the 1910 does not "understand" that there is an active CENTER channel in the 5.1 streams from the various TV channels.

In consequence, if e.g. a soccer match has the commenter mixed to the CENTER, it is at a very low level in the LF and RF, and completely overwhelmed by surround info, e.g. the audience of the match.

The reason I do not want to use CENTER speaker is that I have very high quality FL and FR speakers, which are in fact served by their own amplifier via 1910 SPDIF out.

Note: the TV decoder has a stereo downmix to stereo option, but it is the same with this one; the CENTER channel is just passed along, not mixed in.

Is the metainformation in the 5.1 stream perhaps too modern for 1910 (and the decoder)?

Thanks beforehand!
There are no main zone pre-outs on the 1910 in which to connect an external amp to power the speakers.

The Front L/R speakers need to be connected to the Front L/R speaker posts and when the STEREO surround mode is selected, the "dialog" normally passed to the CENTER speaker will be split between the Front L/R speakers.
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post #9575 of 9577 Old 11-01-2019, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
There are no main zone pre-outs on the 1910 in which to connect an external amp to power the speakers.

The Front L/R speakers need to be connected to the Front L/R speaker posts and when the STEREO surround mode is selected, the "dialog" normally passed to the CENTER speaker will be split between the Front L/R speakers.
Thanks. Yes, of course. I was led astray by myself by (1) observering that the optical out of the TV decoder IS a digital pre-out, in that its digital volume is controllable from a remote, and (2) by having already connected front speakers to a separate amplifier connected-in from receiver optical out. Thus, no effect of the downmix was observed.

I also have a Denon AVR 2805, and this unit has a main Zone analog pre-out. This solved the problem with the center channel. However, my target is to fetch front L and R digitally into my PC for DSP. I do that with a super soundcard; the RME Digiface USB with ONLY spdif/adat input and outputs. Its totalmix is a very advanced software mixer.

But at the moment, I cannot succeed in having this RME Digiface USB observe all the 5.1 channels. It presents only L and R. Don't know how make that work, yet, but I assume that if I inject one of the many HDMI to Optical converter boxes, I might succeed.

A question: Is there available such a converter that may explicitly be configured to ALWAYS outpour PCM 5.1 (or 7.1). As I study product flyers, it seems that most of them just passthrough the surround stream in whatever format is given on the HDMI input, be it PCM 5.1, AC3, etc. I need ALWAYS PCM and a proven products. Any tips?

(This feature is built into my Samsung UHD 65" TV, as it takes whatever HDMI signal and outpours, yes, always, PCM on its optical out)

The reason for this target is that I am the developer of SoundPimp.com, a product that removes the much unwanted crosstalk in the acoustic domain between speakers and ears. To my understanding, one main reason for a center channel, is to compensate for this crosstalk, having many devastating effects.

Means? When I deploy SoundPimp on the Left and Right front channels, the surround impression becomes MUCH MORE immersive. The combination of SoundPimp and "normal" surround creates a new dimension. Let me entitle it "super surround", that ANY setup could benefit from. If interested, listen to demos on your laptop speakers, over at SoundPimp.com.

Back to the 2805: Per coincidence, I discovered that when a TV channel is transmitting in pure stereo (quite rare now, but I have a few of them), then the 2805 notoriously outpours 5.1 on its Zone 2 output. See picture 2. Strange to say, when the TV channel is transmitting 5.1, then the 2805 claims to be outpouring stereo only. Picture 1. While probably true on the analog out, since it has stereo only, it is not true on the optical line out. I verified that by connecting 2805 opt3 to the 1910 input, and then connecting speakers to the various surround channels. All of them had signal! See pictures illustrating this strange 2805 behaviour which could be a bug in the machine, if not a bug-of-ignorance in my brain.

But, being hopeful still, is there a possibility on the 2805 to provoke "downmixed" optical out, ie. digital pre out with the center channel downmixed?

If not, I anticipate this is a Denon way of doing things. Is there another surround receiver, perhaps another brand, offering digital pre out, with downmix, room correction, etc?

I anticipate this thread is quite a quiz on a very vintage machine, but I will claim that the 2805 is still standing, and it has better sound than the newer 1910. Also, it is recouping because at least I have only TV decoder, TurnTable and Computer Audio (Roon, Tidal, etc) as my sources. It means that the lack of HDMI input on the 2805 is no longer a major issue. Don't need it.

Anyway, thanks beforehand for any intelligent remarks.

PS: If you like to try SoundPimp on your own surround setup, contact me.
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Last edited by chjan; 11-01-2019 at 05:10 AM.
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post #9576 of 9577 Old 11-01-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjan View Post
A question: Is there available such a converter that may explicitly be configured to ALWAYS outpour PCM 5.1 (or 7.1). As I study product flyers, it seems that most of them just passthrough the surround stream in whatever format is given on the HDMI input, be it PCM 5.1, AC3, etc. I need ALWAYS PCM and a proven products. Any tips?
Optical can only pass PCM 2.0 or DD/DTS, but not PCM 5.1.
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post #9577 of 9577 Old 11-03-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Optical can only pass PCM 2.0 or DD/DTS, but not PCM 5.1.
Thanks. I am on a steep learning curve on SPDIF, but I am starting to get a grip on it!
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