Is Dolby EX better or Dolby PLIIx Movie? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-11-2009, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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These are the two options I have to convert a 5.1 signal to 7.1.

Any opinions? I kind of like Dolby EX more but I'm not sure what to do here. Complete audio n00b.

Thanks and sorry if i posted this in the wrong forum!
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-11-2009, 08:55 PM
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EX is the older technology. It's designed specifically for EX encoded movies with a single rear channel.

DPL IIx Movie appears to replace and superscede DD EX for 7.1 setups. I use DPL IIx Movie for most TV and movies. DPL IIx Music is great for music, IMO.

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post #3 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 01:18 AM
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IIz gives you height speakers.

EX/IIx gives you back surround speakers. On my Denom 4810, it appears that EX and IIx are interchangeable. If I have a 2 channel source or DTS encoded or TrueHD signal, it always shows the format as:
DTS HD + IIx
True HD + IIx
PL IIx

but when the source is DD, the AVR displays it as:
DD EX

Some amps (7.1) make you to choose between them. Some don't

Personally can't live without both height and back surround when you watch a full action movie
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 02:19 AM
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Sorry, I thought the OP was asking about IIx not IIz (because they mentioned EX most likely.)

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 08:17 AM
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The OP did ask about IIX. The mention of IIz just muddies the waters if the OP's AVR is not equipped with IIz.

The main difference between IIx and EX is that IIx creates stereo back surround channels where as EX creates a mono back surround channel.

I use IIx all the time for everything I listen to.

Bill
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 08:27 AM
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I don't remember which episode, but one of the Dolbycast podcasts mentioned that they think you should use DPL-IIx Movie on DD-EX material, not only because it creates stereo back surround channels but because EX's rear channels are band-limited whereas DPL-IIx's rear channels are full range.

I used DPL-IIx full time when I had a 7.1 setup (though I actually run a 9.1 setup now and run DPL-IIz Height).

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Sorry, I thought the OP was asking about IIx not IIz (because they mentioned EX most likely.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post

The OP did ask about IIX. The mention of IIz just muddies the waters if the OP's AVR is not equipped with IIz.

As it is, the OPs Onkyo ht-s6200 does indeed have IIz, however, from the way he asked the question (even though he has IIz in the title), I'm guessing the way MJH interpretted his question is the way the OP meant to ask it ... comparing IIx vs. II EX. So he got all that plus what the IIz configuration does as well.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 09:27 AM
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I had not heard IIx was band limited. I know Dolby Pro Logic was. You could be right, though.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

EX's rear channels are band-limited

The surround-back channel of an EX soundtrack was extracted using the centre channel output of a Pro Logic decoder, which was not band-limited.

Sanjay
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-12-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I don't remember which episode, but one of the Dolbycast podcasts mentioned that they think you should use DPL-IIx Movie on DD-EX material, not only because it creates stereo back surround channels but because EX's rear channels are band-limited whereas DPL-IIx's rear channels are full range.

I used DPL-IIx full time when I had a 7.1 setup (though I actually run a 9.1 setup now and run DPL-IIz Height).


Dolby Digital EX is electrically equivalent to Dolby Digital + PLIIx Movie with 6.1 outputs. Dolby does not recommend the use of a single Center rear surround louspeaker in any system, as it can lead to a "distracting" hot spot right behind the listener. Ideally, the product should have a 7.1 channel output capability to support L & R side surrounds and L & R back surrounds. When a 7.1 channel product is in the Dolby Digital EX mode, the Center rear signal is divided equally -3dB, to the L & R back surround loudspeakers. However, as Dolby Pro Logic IIx Movie offers greater spatial capability than "6.1" type decoders, including Dolby Digital EX, it is the recommended mode for decoding Surround EX soundtracks.

Just my $0.01...
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I did indeed mean PLIIx, sorry about putting 'z' instead!

thanks for the great explanations, you guys are great. PLIIx it is, then!

Question, how come on video games, the receiver defaults to Multichannel and i cant select dolby PLIIx? I am almost positive this is the native form when i convert the source to LCPM for the PS3. What exactly are the sources for games?

For movies, I use Dolby PLIIx movie, but for games i can only get multichannel. and its kinda of annoying that i cant expand them to 7.1 if they arent. For example, gta4 is 5.1 and stays 5.1 for multichannel, but killzone is 7.1 and stays at 7.1 with multichannel. i was hoping that i could expand the 5.1 gta4 to 7.1 with Dolby PLIIx, but i cant.

Is this because the source for games isnt DTS-HD or TrueHD?
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 05:48 PM
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In a similar question, on my Denon AVR4810 I have the choice of "Dolby Digital", "Dolby Digital EX", "Dolby D. + PLIIx Cinema", "Dolby D. + PLIIx Movie", and "Dolby D. + PLIIz" modes. I am using an 11.1 speaker configuration, and all are in DSX Mode except when in "Dolby D. + PLIIz"" setting. I prefer the the latter 9.1 speaker configuration for music / concert listening, with the Heights (and no Wides) engaged.

So my question, which Mode would you recommend for Bly-ray and Dish satellite?

thanks,

Raybo
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

Question, how come on video games, the receiver defaults to Multichannel and i cant select dolby PLIIx?

Keep in mind that DD PLIIx is a mode that simulates 7.1 from a 5.1 or 2.0 source. If the AVR believes it's receiving all 7.1 channels (ie MULT CH IN 7.1) then there's no reason for it to provide the option of PLIIx as there are no missing channels. If you are playing 5.1 video games then most likely because you have all 7.1 audio tracks selected on the PS3 HDMI sound settings, it is sending blank channels for the rear surrounds. Rather then sending the audio as LPCM, try bitstreaming it as DD 5.1 which should then give you DD PLIIx. Otherwise, as a test, try deselecting the 7.1 audio tracks only and play a 5.1 game. Most likely you will now get MULT CH IN + PLIIx the next time you play that game, with simulated audio to the rear surrounds. Certainly a pain just to get audio to your rear surrounds, rather bitstreaming would be the better option.
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 07:38 PM
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There's no best. It's what YOU like. Play around with them, see what sounds correct to YOU.

For 7.1, I would prefer DD + PL IIx movie. Never heard of PLIIx Cinema. It's not a standard mode, or wasn't. And I know nothing about modes beyond 7.1

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

Question, how come on video games, the receiver defaults to Multichannel and i cant select dolby PLIIx? I am almost positive this is the native form when i convert the source to LCPM for the PS3. What exactly are the sources for games?

For movies, I use Dolby PLIIx movie, but for games i can only get multichannel. and its kinda of annoying that i cant expand them to 7.1 if they arent. For example, gta4 is 5.1 and stays 5.1 for multichannel, but killzone is 7.1 and stays at 7.1 with multichannel. i was hoping that i could expand the 5.1 gta4 to 7.1 with Dolby PLIIx, but i cant.

Is this because the source for games isnt DTS-HD or TrueHD?

Which PS3 are you using (slim or big)? Have you updated the firmware recently?

From what I remember, the PS3 sees what your AVR is "capable" of and then outputs the audio accordingly for games.

So if your AVR is 7.1 capable, it sends out 7.1 LPCM, even though the source is only 2.0 or 5.1, with all the unused channels muted. Which kinda sucks because as you found out, the AVR sees all 7.1 channels and doesn't allow you to apply IIx to upmix 5.1 to 7.1

This was a while back, and I am not sure if the latest firmware has fixed it.
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 07:52 PM
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I thought that limitation applied mainly to music which is 2.0. I would expect games to be 5.1, but I don't own any games for the PS3.

On the other hand, if your PS3 is set to output PCM for games rather than DD, and your receiver can't apply surround processing to PCM, what you describe sounds like the expected outcome.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Never heard of PLIIx Cinema. It's not a standard mode, or wasn't. And I know nothing about modes beyond 7.1

He actually meant DD PLIIx Cinema and DD PLIIx Music (vice movie) which are the terms that Denon AVRs use (in lieu of DD's movie and music). The 4810 is the first Denon AVR with DSX mode which allows the user to play both Front Wide/Height AND rear surround in a 9.3 configuration.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-14-2009, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Keep in mind that DD PLIIx is a mode that simulates 7.1 from a 5.1 or 2.0 source. If the AVR believes it's receiving all 7.1 channels (ie MULT CH IN 7.1) then there's no reason for it to provide the option of PLIIx as there are no missing channels. If you are playing 5.1 video games then most likely because you have all 7.1 audio tracks selected on the PS3 HDMI sound settings, it is sending blank channels for the rear surrounds. Rather then sending the audio as LPCM, try bitstreaming it as DD 5.1 which should then give you DD PLIIx. Otherwise, as a test, try deselecting the 7.1 audio tracks only and play a 5.1 game. Most likely you will now get MULT CH IN + PLIIx the next time you play that game, with simulated audio to the rear surrounds. Certainly a pain just to get audio to your rear surrounds, rather bitstreaming would be the better option.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks a ton! I guess i can either disable 7.1 so 5.1 works or do as you say and enable bitstream. I agree, that is kind of a pain.

Are games in dolby digital or HD? If theyre in digital, bitstreaming would be ok since the sound quality wouldnt really degrade, right? OTOH, if i used bitstreaming and Dolby HD, wouldnt quality be reduced somewhat (then id just do the disable 7.1 option)?
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-15-2009, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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in addition to those questions, does video game audio work differently from movie audio?

Or does all video game audio automatically say its source is your highest audio source selection (i.e. 7.1 source)?
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