The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 838 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25111 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
In that case you would need to change your HTPC connection to an used input in the back like the V Aux or LD.
Well, not exactly. The inputs in the back aren't locked to certain "sources" on this receiver (hence the drop-downs where you can change the inputs for the source - you can map them as you please). I can move my HTPC HDMI connector to HDMI-5, and change the HDMI input for "HTPC" to HDMI-5, and the issue remains. The issue, it appears is that particular virtual "source" (the one that was originally named TV) SEEMS to be hard coded to being the only one that the ARC channel is mapped to.

So unless there is a setting somewhere that I haven't found, ARC seems to be the exception to the flexible source/input mapping in this receiver. I can't seem to find a way to map ARC to another source. So unless someone knows of a way that I've overlooked, I will need to swap, say, HTPC and LD. I will swap the names, and the input mapping between the two. Since LD dosn't need an HDMI input, the fact that I can't map an HDMI input to it shouldn't matter. But the problem is I'll have to redo my universal remote programming.
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post #25112 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
The issue, it appears is that particular virtual "source" (the one that was originally named TV) SEEMS to be hard coded to being the only one that the ARC channel is mapped to.
Hi Darin, correct...
• When "HDMI Control" – "Control" (page 95) is set to "ON", HDMI input connector cannot be assigned to "TV".
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post #25113 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post
Hi darin, appear Game Input has been delete from Input Assign menu (using Source Delete turn Game back on). Assign HTPC To Game Input as HDMI-6.
Right, that's another option, but with the same caveat... I'll have to redo my programming for HTPC to be on that source. It sounds like there's nothing I've missed... ARC is apparently hard coded to the source that was originally named "TV", and I'll have to bite the bullet and re-do some things to allow that. Thanks for all the input!
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post #25114 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 12:59 PM
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Hi Darin, correct...
• When "HDMI Control" – "Control" (page 95) is set to "ON", HDMI input connector cannot be assigned to "TV".
Thanks, that is the note I missed. I searched the manual for "ARC", but somehow missed the relevance of that note. When I set all this up many many years ago, the HTPC was my source for TV tuning, so it seemed logical to use that for the "TV" source. I hadn't noticed that that source was the only one that could be used with ARC, nor did I care since I wasn't using ARC.
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post #25115 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Well, not exactly. The inputs in the back aren't locked to certain "sources" on this receiver (hence the drop-downs where you can change the inputs for the source - you can map them as you please). I can move my HTPC HDMI connector to HDMI-5, and change the HDMI input for "HTPC" to HDMI-5, and the issue remains. The issue, it appears is that particular virtual "source" (the one that was originally named TV) SEEMS to be hard coded to being the only one that the ARC channel is mapped to.

So unless there is a setting somewhere that I haven't found, ARC seems to be the exception to the flexible source/input mapping in this receiver. I can't seem to find a way to map ARC to another source. So unless someone knows of a way that I've overlooked, I will need to swap, say, HTPC and LD. I will swap the names, and the input mapping between the two. Since LD dosn't need an HDMI input, the fact that I can't map an HDMI input to it shouldn't matter. But the problem is I'll have to redo my universal remote programming.
Yes, I'm aware that the inputs are assignable with the exception of the TV when ARC is enabled. I was just assuming that since the other inputs were renamed, they are already in use. There was a typo in my original post and I meant to say plug it into an unused input and not a used input. Either way, you cannot use the TV input for audio if ARC is enabled.
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post #25116 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Thanks, that is the note I missed. I searched the manual for "ARC", but somehow missed the relevance of that note. When I set all this up many many years ago, the HTPC was my source for TV tuning, so it seemed logical to use that for the "TV" source. I hadn't noticed that that source was the only one that could be used with ARC, nor did I care since I wasn't using ARC.
To be clear, the TV source being renamed to HTPC should not have prevented ARC from working. As previously noted, the HDMI outputs (both ARC) are just that "outputs" and therefore are not related to the source inputs. ARC should still work if you press the TV button on the remote even if the source is renamed to HTPC.
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post #25117 of 25164 Old 04-14-2019, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
To be clear, the TV source being renamed to HTPC should not have prevented ARC from working. As previously noted, the HDMI outputs (both ARC) are just that "outputs" and therefore are not related to the source inputs. ARC should still work if you press the TV button on the remote even if the source is renamed to HTPC.
Correct, ARC does work. That's not the issue. This issue is enabling ARC prevents me from using an HDMI input on that particular source. The only relevance to that source being renamed to HTPC is that it initially made it more difficult to understand what was going on. I renamed that source "HTPC" 8 years ago, I'd long since forgotten that particular source was considered the "TV" input out of the box.
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post #25118 of 25164 Old 04-27-2019, 02:40 PM
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Tis a sad day. My 4311ci has seemingly bit the dust. It was a somewhat slow death. About a year ago, all the speakers except for the rear surrounds stopped working. After a reset, recalibration and fiddling with the volume, it started working again. However, the volume, (using the remote) was always wonky afterwards, going up and down by random amounts when I was changing it. Very odd. Then one of the subwoofer outs died. I lived with it. But now all the outputs have died, speaker level and pre-out.

Tried multiple resets and power plug removals, but still nothing. Won't even create test tones or do the Audyssey calibration. She's dead, Jim.

Needing a replacement right away, I bought the best thing my local Best Buy had, (boy, their selection has got smaller in the past 10 years) a $500 Onkyo 5.1.4 receiver, the TX-NR787. I sort of laughed when I took it out of the box. So lightweight. The remote looks like a simple toy. But for literally a quarter of what the mighty 4311ci cost, what do you expect?


Anyway, I hooked it all up and ran the calibration with the included mic. The sounds reminded me of the MCACC calibration on my old Pioneer from 20 years ago. Makes sense, I guess considering Pioneer and Onkyo are one and the same these days. My Audyssey DSX heights were at the exact angle specified for Dolby Atmos (45deg) and the high-mounted rear surrounds were pretty close, so I just did a full 5.1.4 Atmos setup with minimal effort. I didn't even level-match the subs. I just wanted to hear something.


Not expecting much from this "temporary" cheapo thing, I played a few demos off the Xbox Atmos app. "Huh.....that sounds.... really good." But that's special demos... let me put in a demanding movie that will really test this thing out. In goes the 4K BluRay with Atmos, BladeRunner 2049. I sit down and....


….get BLOWN AWAY.


The bass at the beginning of this movie makes my couch levitate, yes. It feels like a 8.0 earthquakes has hit. But that's old hat. That's what happens when you have Infinite Baffle subwoofers capable of reproducing anything, even sub-10Hz infrasonics at reference levels. I've felt that before. What I had NEVER experienced before was the sound ENVELOPING ME. I could not tell which speaker the sounds were coming out of. It was like being in a bubble of sound. Like a binaural headphone demo cranked up to 11 and a hundred times bigger.


Atmos is a game changer, no doubt about it. The last time I heard a difference this big was probably when 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS came out. That's over 25 YEARS ago! I'm sad my 4311ci died, but I'm glad it's passing allowed me to hear what I've been missing.


Anyway, I have been impressed with this little Onkyo. It sounds great, even with music and that "toy" remote actually has a very nice button layout with all the buttons I actually need. I'm so impressed, I'm actually going to step up to the high-end Onkyo TX-RZ830, which adds 2 more channels for 7.1.4, eARC, much beefier amps and pre-outs... and even though the MSRP is $1300, it's available everywhere for $550.


It's been a fun ride with the 4311ci. Maybe I'll be back to Denon when I want to hook my front wides back up and go 9.2.4!!!
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post #25119 of 25164 Old 04-30-2019, 05:25 PM
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Condolences and Congratulations!

I recently replaced my 4311 with a Marantz 8805. I kept the wife’s in place and moved the Audyssey DSX heights to the Front height locations.

Bad news about Wide speakers: Currently, the wides are used very little with Dolby Atmos, not at all with the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU), and not at all with DTS:X.

You can learn more in the Dolby Atmos thread.

Mark


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post #25120 of 25164 Old 04-30-2019, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Condolences and Congratulations!

I recently replaced my 4311 with a Marantz 8805. I kept the wife’s in place and moved the Audyssey DSX heights to the Front height locations.

Bad news about Wide speakers: Currently, the wides are used very little with Dolby Atmos, not at all with the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU), and not at all with DTS:X.

You can learn more in the Dolby Atmos thread.

Mark


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Thanks for the reply! Funny enough, my DSX Height speakers are the ONLY ones I didn't have to move for Atmos. I had spent a LOT of time and effort mounting them at 45 degrees from the MLP (on the ceiling) and fortunately thats exactly where Atmos wants them also. Whew!
*All* my other speakers need to be moved down to ear level, as they were mounted high on the walls because of little kids, as I remember.
Not bad news at all about the wides not being used much for Atmos. Now I don't feel nearly as bad about the empty wide speaker brackets and my dirt cheap 7.1.4 receiver.

That Atmos thread is a scary beast. I barely was able to comprehend the Audyssey thread 10 years ago. In any case, the main thing seems to be getting the speakers at the correct angles. That's what my laser pointer is for!
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post #25121 of 25164 Old 04-30-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Condolences and Congratulations!

I recently replaced my 4311 with a Marantz 8805. I kept the wife’s in place and moved the Audyssey DSX heights to the Front height locations.

Bad news about Wide speakers: Currently, the wides are used very little with Dolby Atmos, not at all with the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU), and not at all with DTS:X.

You can learn more in the Dolby Atmos thread.

Mark


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If you can give up your Surround Back speakers or simply store 2 different speaker EQ configurations (one using SB and one not using SB), the Front Wide are always used with a 7.1.4 setup with Atmos, DTS:X, and DTS Neural:X.
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post #25122 of 25164 Old 05-01-2019, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If you can give up your Surround Back speakers or simply store 2 different speaker EQ configurations (one using SB and one not using SB), the Front Wide are always used with a 7.1.4 setup with Atmos, DTS:X, and DTS Neural:X.


Thanks JD, I forgot to mention that. I do have a macro set up on my remote to disable the rear surrounds on the Marantz AV8805.


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post #25123 of 25164 Old 05-01-2019, 04:43 PM
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Sorry for your loss S_rangeBrew. I picked up a 4311CI from Amazon warehouse for $400 about a year ago. Excellent shape except for a broken foot. Hot glue and new screw fixed no problem. Sound is amazing. Use is 90% music in a big (32'x22'x8') game room. Running 11.4 most of the time with two amps. When Zone 2 for the patio is on and 13.4 with another amp is running, the party is on. I dread the day mine gives up the ghost. When it does, I still will probably get another used one. Going for about $500 on fleabay.
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post #25124 of 25164 Old 06-08-2019, 11:13 PM
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Well it is time to retire the 4311CI (new 4400H on it's way). Analog only in Zone2, no 4k or Atmos and so on. Still works like a champ. Which brings me to my question.

Can I use the 4311 to power the front 3 with the new 4400? I have read some threads about re-purposing an old avr as an amp. Is the 4311 limited to 2ch or can it power 3(F/C/R)? I have the space for it, and would just as soon use it than trying to sell it on Craigslist.
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post #25125 of 25164 Old 06-09-2019, 03:19 AM
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Well it is time to retire the 4311CI (new 4400H on it's way). Analog only in Zone2, no 4k or Atmos and so on. Still works like a champ. Which brings me to my question.

Can I use the 4311 to power the front 3 with the new 4400? I have read some threads about re-purposing an old avr as an amp. Is the 4311 limited to 2ch or can it power 3(F/C/R)? I have the space for it, and would just as soon use it than trying to sell it on Craigslist.
Yes. As a former "flagship" model, the 4311CI features 7.1 multi analog inputs which means it can be used to externally power up to 7 speakers.
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post #25126 of 25164 Old 06-09-2019, 03:50 AM
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No way I can afford current flagship model. So what would be the best use of the 4311's power with the 4400's newer features? Run 8 Surr/Height with the 4311, and the front three and subs with the 4400? or vice versa? Or a totally different combination? I have an Onkyo 2ch amp that will power Zone2. and a 2ch Monoprice amp that will be used for ???

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post #25127 of 25164 Old 06-09-2019, 03:52 AM
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No way I can afford current flagship model. So what would be the best use of the 4311's power with the 4400's newer features? Run 8 Surr/Height with the 4311, and the front three and subs with the 4400? or vice versa?
Vice versa. Use the more powerful 4311CI to power the three speakers that require the most power (L/C/R).
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post #25128 of 25164 Old 06-09-2019, 04:03 AM
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Vice versa. Use the more powerful 4311CI to power the three speakers that require the most power (L/C/R).
So it would be L/C/R pre-out from the 4400 to L/C/R in on the 4311 via rca. Speakers to the corresponding terminal on the 4311. Volume about 80% on 4311. 4311 set to "direct". Any other settings on the 4311?
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post #25129 of 25164 Old 06-09-2019, 12:43 PM
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So it would be L/C/R pre-out from the 4400 to L/C/R in on the 4311 via rca. Speakers to the corresponding terminal on the 4311. Volume about 80% on 4311. 4311 set to "direct". Any other settings on the 4311?
Correct on all connections and settings except when using the multi analog inputs, there is no need to set the surround mode to DIRECT.
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post #25130 of 25164 Old 06-10-2019, 02:24 PM
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Correct on all connections and settings except when using the multi analog inputs, there is no need to set the surround mode to DIRECT.
So it doesn't matter where the 4311 would be set at, sound mode wise? The 4400 will control that now? Including volume/level? If the volume on the 4311 is set to about 80%? Never used an avr/receiver as an amp. I guess I should now treat it as an amp and NOT an avr.
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post #25131 of 25164 Old 06-10-2019, 04:36 PM
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So it doesn't matter where the 4311 would be set at, sound mode wise? The 4400 will control that now? Including volume/level? If the volume on the 4311 is set to about 80%? Never used an avr/receiver as an amp. I guess I should now treat it as an amp and NOT an avr.
Correct. Set the 4311CI to 80/0dB depending on which volume scale you use.
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post #25132 of 25164 Old 06-10-2019, 04:50 PM
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Correct. Set the 4311CI to 80/0dB depending on which volume scale you use.
Thank you once again JD. Ya know years ago I thought the JBL HTIB was the best thing ever. Of course it was my first new house, and the party was on. With your help, and Batpigs Denon genius, this has really turned into an amazing experience the last year or so. Maybe it is not as LOUD anymore, bit it sounds SOOO.. much better. Can't wait to get the two Denons working together to see what comes about. Thanks again, Mike.
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post #25133 of 25164 Old 06-15-2019, 11:07 PM
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Yep. Same thing just happened to me. I keep my 4311 on zero volume
all the time. I turned it off and when it came back on it installed a new
firmware. I can't find a software version. I reinstalled iTunes and same
problem. 4311 no longer compatible with airplay. I can still cast to device
but that isn't near as good.
Eleven months later my airplay finally works. Was about to buy a receiver with airplay 2. Did 1 more google and found a newer article that said unplug both the power and network cable. That did it? Don't remember unplugging the network cable. I reinstalled iTunes and changed the default windows music app. Changed it back. Nothing. Looks like the power/network recycle did it. The firmware update upset it. Chances are no more firmware updates. Thing is old. Airplay 2 looked problematic so was in no hurry to use that instead. With proper embedder artwork files (not too big) airplay 1 is solid. The website with the solution? Denon uk custhelp.com.

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post #25134 of 25164 Old 06-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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Correct on all connections and settings except when using the multi analog inputs, there is no need to set the surround mode to DIRECT.
First try using the 4311 for L/C/R as an amp with the 4400. Nothing test tone wise from Fronts. Also the Center is not a choice on the 4400 for using an amp? Is there something on the 4311 I am missing as far as setting it up as an amp?. I skipped everything to see, and am getting sound from other 8 speakers.
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post #25135 of 25164 Old 06-17-2019, 05:31 PM
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First try using the 4311 for L/C/R as an amp with the 4400. Nothing test tone wise from Fronts. Also the Center is not a choice on the 4400 for using an amp? Is there something on the 4311 I am missing as far as setting it up as an amp?. I skipped everything to see, and am getting sound from other 8 speakers.
1. The volume of the 4311 must be set to 80/0db and you must also select a source and then set INPUT MODE to "EXT IN".
2. All pre-outs are hot. The only two that have to be identified are the two used to expand the X4400H from 9CH --> 11CH as noted in the AMP ASSIGN setting below.

Assign Mode: 11.1
Floor
- Layout
: 5ch & SB
Height
– Height Sp
: 4ch
- Layout: Top Front + Top Rear (or Front Height + Rear Height)
- Pre-out: Front
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post #25136 of 25164 Old 06-20-2019, 06:22 PM
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1. The volume of the 4311 must be set to 80/0db and you must also select "7.1CH In" as the source.
2. All pre-outs are hot. The only two that have to be identified are the two used to expand the X4400H from 9CH --> 11CH as noted in the AMP ASSIGN setting below.

Assign Mode: 11.1
Floor
- Layout
: 5ch & SB
Height
– Height Sp
: 4ch
- Layout: Top Front + Top Rear (or Front Height + Rear Height)
- Pre-out: Front
Thanks JD. After trying everything, I have come to the conclusion that I believe none of the analog inputs are working on the 4311. It was from Amazon warehouse, used from third party, with a broken foot. In the months I have owned it, I have never even tried one of the analog inputs. It is out on the workbench now. Will test to see if they actually do work. Took my old Onkyo 2ch amp and hooked it up for fronts with the 4400. Test tone fine, ran Audyssey, and sub eq..amazing now with the X4400H using 11.4 after 20 minutes. Thanks again for all your help.
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post #25137 of 25164 Old 07-08-2019, 02:26 PM
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So my 4311 is not well. Haven't been on these forums in years but it appears they're as alive and helpful as ever.

I've had it into a local AV repair guy who diagnosed it as a bad digital/HDMI board but he was unwilling/unable to do that repair (not an authorized Denon shop). It was relegated to basement duty (mostly movies and kids xbox) and had been working fine until I was headed down to the beer fridge and happened to hear a clicking sound, which was the 4311 just cycling off and on. I could turn it off but when I turn it on it just clicks off and on repeatedly. I had already tried microprocessor restart before taking it into the local shop.

Just had a horrible experience with my best option for an authorized Denon repair place, the guy was a total jerk on the phone. What are my options? Anyone have an idea what that board would/should cost me (parts/labor)? I hate to just recycle such a wonderful receiver that has served so well for so many years, but I fear it may come to that.
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post #25138 of 25164 Old 07-08-2019, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnirlum View Post
So my 4311 is not well. Haven't been on these forums in years but it appears they're as alive and helpful as ever.

I've had it into a local AV repair guy who diagnosed it as a bad digital/HDMI board but he was unwilling/unable to do that repair (not an authorized Denon shop). It was relegated to basement duty (mostly movies and kids xbox) and had been working fine until I was headed down to the beer fridge and happened to hear a clicking sound, which was the 4311 just cycling off and on. I could turn it off but when I turn it on it just clicks off and on repeatedly. I had already tried microprocessor restart before taking it into the local shop.

Just had a horrible experience with my best option for an authorized Denon repair place, the guy was a total jerk on the phone. What are my options? Anyone have an idea what that board would/should cost me (parts/labor)? I hate to just recycle such a wonderful receiver that has served so well for so many years, but I fear it may come to that.
HDMI boards run around $400-$500, although seriously doubt that it's still available for the 4311CI as a 9 year old model. You're much better served putting the repair money into a more current model, especially if 4k is soon to be in the picture.
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post #25139 of 25164 Old 07-08-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
HDMI boards run around $400-$500, although seriously doubt that it's still available for the 4311CI as a 9 year old model. You're much better served putting the repair money into a more current model, especially if 4k is soon to be in the picture.
I feared that was the reality that I was going to have to accept. Already upgraded main system to a 4400 last winter (primarily for 4K). Our second system was happier with the 4311 but has not been downgraded to an even older Onkyo.
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post #25140 of 25164 Old 07-08-2019, 03:05 PM
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Are you just wanting something for the basement and kids? Or main piece kinda thing? Had a 4311 up to a few months ago. Loved it. New tv and layout and the 4311 not doing anything but analog to zone 2/3 meant it was time. Co-worker has it now and uses it in a 4 bay garage/shop. Still sounds great.

Updated to an X4400H on sale. Love it. Running 11.4. Just all the "new" stuff you can do now alone, makes it worth the update. Put it online for sale. Somebody will buy it.
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Audyssey , AVR-4311CI , Denon , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w

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